Traci's (Emmeril's) brined turkey

[Traci]

"""I've never heard of "brining" turkey. Please tell all! """

Very important: You must start with an unprocessed bird! (Emmeril doesn't mention this - but if you use a Butterball - or other that has been processed (injected or soaked) with salt water or broth - you will end up too salty) Fortunately, I found this on the internet - and didn't have to learn it the hard way!

Mix two gallons of water
1 cup salt (NOT table salt - coarse kosher salt)
1 cup brown sugar

I have a stock pot large enough - but you could also clean out an ice chest, or use a plastic garbage bag.

Stir sugar, salt and water until dissolved. Quarter 2 oranges and 2 lemons. Squeeze the juice in and then toss them in. Add a few sprigs each of rosemary and thyme.

Soak the turkey in this (covered and refrigerated) for 4 - 24 hours. I did mine about 16 hours.

Roast breast side down for the first hour, then turn and finish roasting. (it helps to make a little "sling" out of kitchen string to help turn the bird over - I DID learn this one the hard way!)

Per Emmeril, I also stuffed mine with

1 orange (cut in 8ths)
1 onion (cut in 8ths)
1 celery stock (1" pieces)
1 carrot (1" pieces)
a bay leaf

(I discarded this stuffing after roasting)

I believe you can find this and more details on foodtv.com

[Traci]

OH!

I forgot!

After removing the turkey from the brine - RINSE WELL

Very important!

[Andy Lang]

The problem with most brined turkey recipes, is that they are way too salty and some I have tested, including one with a brine containing maple syprup, make the turkey taste just like ham. If I want ham, I would buy ham.

I have a secret recipe learned in Arkansas, by adapting Arkansas slow smoked barbecue reipes and techniques (the best barbecue in the world, BTW---KC, Texas and NC eat your hearts out!)to turkeys.

People tell me it is the best they have tasted, but takes a full seven hours and is best done with real briquets--and care has to taken to make sure it doesn't dry out too much. Even dried out the smoky flavor is still suberb.

When the meat is red to a depth of about an inch or two, but the meat is still moist and pulls away from the bone by simply lightly pulling a leg or wing, you got it j-u-s-t right. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Minerva]

Andy - it is cruel to mention a secret recipe that is the best in the world and not give it out.

[Griffin 9]

But did you find this one?

[Traci]

"""The problem with most brined turkey recipes, is that they are way too salty """

The problem being that it was done wrong - too much salt - wrong type of salt - soaked too long - not rinsed well - etc.

According to what I've read - the salt/sugar ratios are crucial.

Mine was by far the best turkey I've ever made. The citrus juice further tenderizes the meat - it just melted in the mouth.

Not salty - and definitely tasted like turkey!

But I've also had wonderful slow-smoked turkey too - I just don't know how to do it that way. And deep frying is also supposed to be good. I have a pot large enough to deep fry a 15 lb turkey in - but I would not want to do that in my kitchen!

[Maine-iac]

[HERESY ALERT] You could just get the Butterball and not bother with brine. [/END HERESY ALERT]

[Lucy]

Or buy a kosher turkey - they've already been brined. Around the holidays, you can often find fresh kosher turkey, Then you can get one that is both brined and fresh, with no fuss in your kitchen.

[Anonymous]

Please forgive the interruption, I just had this urge (and I have poor impulse control) to post next to Maine-iac.

[The Mister]

<font size=2>Ha ha! You missed! :razz:

[E. Blackadder]

That's why I got them confused. <:) I missed too!

[Traci]

"""You could just get the Butterball and not bother with brine. """

True - for the most part.

I usually roast Butterball, or Honeysuckle White.

Mine was equally as juicy - but I liked the flavor and texture of the meat better in the one that I brined myself. But it WAS extra work - so might not be worth it to some - especially if you don't have a pot big enough or the fridge space.

In the past, I have roasted the turkey on the Tuesday evening before Thanksgiving, carved it up and put it into a clean roasting pan and covered the meat with broth. I also make most of the other dishes ahead of time and then just heat everything back up for the big meal. Works well if you're feeding a large group - but you lose the presentation.

Next year I will probably brine again - but will buy a stand-alone roaster so that I keep the oven free for the other dishes.

[Minerva]

Do it on the kettle grill that morning if you have one - shorter time, great flavor, saves oven space.

[Damn, Dirty Ape]

What's a kettle grill? Do I have one?

[mocha]

Hi, I just want to say that it's a stalk, not a stock, of celery. Thank you.

[Traci]

If I stock my refrigerator with stalks - and use them all - have I used my stock? or my stalk?

Thanks for the correction.

[Minerva]

The most common (if not only) kettle grills are made by Weber, but I was trying not to do too much of an endorsement (Despite the fact that we are on our second one, so obviously love them.)

[Damn, Dirty Ape]

Thanks. But I still don't know what a kettle grill is. Is it like a barbeque? My in-laws did the turkey on the barbeque, and it also takes less time, improves flavor and frees up the oven. The trick is to use a good thermometer and keep 'er at the right temperature (that's what my father-in-law tells me, anyway).

[Patience]

The circular grills that have the removable dome top and a deep round bottom. Very simple, very effective

[Traci]

OH MY GOD!! 2 days at 60 degrees???

Granted I am a complete germ-o-phobe - but are you NUTS???

Seriously - Please tell me there are no children or elderly people at your table.

Begin Lecture (some of this I copied - to get it right):

Poultry products such as turkey and chicken are primary sources of the bacteria Salmonella and Campylobacter. These organisms are the two most commonly reported causes of foodborne illness. Symptoms, such as stomach cramps, vomiting, diarrhea and fever, usually occur 1-5 days after eating foods with high levels of bacteria.

Usually these bacteria such are not harmful at levels typically found in turkey. However, when given favorable conditions, they can grow to harmful levels and make people sick. The moist high protein content of turkey provides needed nutrients for bacteria to multiply. With warm temperatures (from 40°F to 140°F) and enough time (usually 2-4 HOURS - that's HOURS - let alone DAYS), bacteria can multiply quickly from hundreds to thousands per bite!

Food poisoning is miserable (I've had it) - and can be DEADLY to a child (you want that on your conscience?) or an older person.

2 days at 60 degrees and that bird was more germs than bones! While cooking to temperature kills MOST of the bacteria - it does not kill ALL. Then by letting it again come to room temp for hours before serving, the bacteria went right back up to dangerous levels.

End Lecture. <taking deep breaths> <calming down>

Final thought:

The fact that you didn't end up puking for days is luck that I would not want to push twice! (At a minimum - Please inform your guests of your method of preparation - I would have your head on a platter if you put my kid in the hospital by not giving me the option to serve her a hot dog instead - and yes! I cook those to temperature too! Listeria, you know)

[Dr T Non-Fan]

T, you act as if deadly bacteria happen every single time.
First, that bacteria have no chance in an oven.
Second, the waiting afterward would be more dangerous. That's when the naturally occurring airbourne stuff gets a chance to shine.

And a hot dog? Prime choking food. I'm ashamed of you.

[Traci]

Any poultry is a prime candidate for Salmonella - and even a tiny bit can become deadly after 2 days at 60 degrees. Remember most of the bacteria is on the SURFACE of the meat - which reaches room temperature long before the center thaws.

Also - Even cooking to proper temperature will not kill ALL the bacteria - the tough ones survive to multiply again - making them more likely to make you sick.

The combination of 2 days at room temp before cooking and several hours at room temp after cooking is just ASKING for trouble.

Hey - it's no skin off my nose if you want to prepare a turkey that way - but I would be pretty upset if you didn't tell me about it before I ate it - or let my kids eat it.

PS - I cut the hotdog lengthwise, then slice. Or for a real kid-friendly treat - take an uncooked hot dog, make 4 lengthwise cuts almost to one end - drop into boiling water - and the "legs" curl up and make an octopus. (And the thin "leg" strips are less of a choking hazard :smile:

[Guerilla poster]

Due to factory farming, there are alot worse things in our meat supply than a little bacteria. Ever noticed that the eggs you buy now days taste much different than they used to - wonder why?

[Traci]

Oops, didn't see yours before I posted GF.

Yes - life is full of risks - but this is one I would not consider worth taking - just seems silly to me to disregard common sense like that.

[Pampered Chef]

A week ago or so, I was watching a cooking show(or cooking segment in a show) where a Chinese chef prepared a duck in the same manner that Peking duck is prepared. The host worriedly asked about bacteria forming. The chinese chef made a side remark about how the Chinese have been eating duck this way for centuries!!!!

[Ginda Fisher]

If I remember right, Peking duck is prepared by hanging the duck in a warm place (not a cool place) for a day or two to help melt off the fat prior to cooking.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ginda Fisher on 2001-12-01 09:02 ]</font>

[E. Blackadder]

on top of a pot of boiling water, perhaps.

[Ginda Fisher]

In the lesson I took, the duck was left in a closet. Maybe it was pre-warmed over boiling water? That sounds familiar.

[1695814]

http://actuary.ca/images/turkey.gif

[1695814]

[For] a real kid-friendly treat - take an uncooked hot dog, make 4 lengthwise cuts almost to one end - drop into boiling water - and the "legs" curl up and make an octopus.Great idea, Traci. I'm going to have to try that.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

First, thanks, RNG, for digging up this turkey of a thread.
I had heard that roasts are juicier if you let them "rest" before cutting them open, but WOW! Between cooking less time (so drying less) and resting to reabsorb the juices, it was by far the juiciest turkey I've ever had. It was also the tastiest. It didn't leak juice when we sliced it, it was just moist all through.
This applies to all meats. Just how long to wait, though for a turkey? For a marinated tri-tip (1.5 pounds or so), I usually wait about 10 minutes.

[Emily]

First, thanks, RNG, for digging up this turkey of a thread.

This applies to all meats. Just how long to wait, though for a turkey? For a marinated tri-tip (1.5 pounds or so), I usually wait about 10 minutes.
Yup. I learned in a cooking class that the juice kind of moves to the center where it's cooler. If you cut it open before the temperature evens out, all the juice runs out, and the remaining meat is dryer.

Any reason why we couldn't have started a new turkey thread?

[twig93]

Leaving a turkey on the counter for two days is probably not a good idea, but I don't think leaving it out overnight is going to hurt much. As you say, most of the bacteria is on the surface and therefore doesn't stand a chance in the oven. You know when you go to Chinatown and they have the birds hanging in the window to purchase? So long as they're cooked properly, and anything that touched the raw bird is thoroughly cleansed before it has a chance to come into contact with anything else, room temperature meat is unlikely to hurt anything.

Leaving the fully cooked turkey sitting for two hours is bad, particularly if there is no subsequent nuking in the microwave. One of my best friends is a health inspector and she would NOT approve! (The nuking it in the microwave would probably not appease the health inspector, but it would do a lot to appease me!)

My grandmother routinely eats raw hamburger - to this day! And she has lived to the ripe old age of 88. It grosses me out, but she claims that it has the most flavor when it's raw. I remember when I was little and watching her form hamburger patties and she offered me some and was a bit disappointed that I wouldn't eat it - kept telling me I didn't know what I was missing! I think my mother was just as happy I didn't partake. But anyway, she never got sick.

I certainly remember eating lots of cookie dough as a child with raw eggs in it with no ill effects, and my cocktail recipe book has a recipe for sour mix that includes a raw eggwhite. It suggests washing the shell before you crack the egg, which I think is probably a good idea if you're going to be eating anything with raw eggs in it. The stuff on the shell is probably worse than anything in the actual egg.

Bottom line: I am very anal about keeping my kitchen and my food clean. And I won't let cooked food sit out for long. But most of the other stuff I don't worry about. I've gotten food poisoning at restaurants, but never from food I prepared.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Any reason why we couldn't have started a new turkey thread?
Well, this thread contains a rare, civil exchange between Dr T and The Evil One.

[twig93]

Now that I think of it, when my mom hosted Thanksgiving, she would place the turkey in the oven the night before. Then the oven had a timer that she would set so that she wouldn't have to get up too early. She could wait to get up until after the bird had been cooking for a half-hour and she had to baste.

[Frenchie]

I certainly remember eating lots of cookie dough as a child with raw eggs in it with no ill effects

I always love some good raw cookie dough. There was a time when my ex-husband was like "How come I always see half eaten cookie dough in the fridge, but never any cookies?"

Heck, they sell all kinds of cookie dough products now, so must be okay.

[Emily]

Heck, they sell all kinds of cookie dough products now, so must be okay.
Well, they don't put raw eggs in the stuff they put in ice cream. I let my kid eat a little raw cookie dough. Otherwise he wouldn't help me make cookies. What are the chances that egg is infected with salmonella? I've read it's like one in a thousand, which is more than zero. How much raw egg is he getting when he licks the spoon? Not enough I'm hoping.

[Frenchie]

Well, they don't put raw eggs in the stuff they put in ice cream. I let my kid eat a little raw cookie dough. Otherwise he wouldn't help me make cookies. What are the chances that egg is infected with salmonella? I've read it's like one in a thousand, which is more than zero. How much raw egg is he getting when he licks the spoon? Not enough I'm hoping.

I wonder how much my friends and I got when we would sit and eat a whole roll of it??? I know, not good eating habit! But it sure tasted good...

[Emily]

I wonder how much my friends and I got when we would sit and eat a whole roll of it??? I know, not good eating habit! But it sure tasted good...
Even the stuff they sell to be baked might use pasteurized eggs. Not sure though. Anyway, it's not the raw egg that will hurt you, it's the salmonella that might reside there.

[Traci]

My grandmother routinely eats raw hamburger - to this day! And she has lived to the ripe old age of 88. It grosses me out, but she claims that it has the most flavor when it's raw. I remember when I was little and watching her form hamburger patties and she offered me some and was a bit disappointed that I wouldn't eat it - kept telling me I didn't know what I was missing! I think my mother was just as happy I didn't partake. But anyway, she never got sick.

Raw-burger is a delicacy in the small town where I grew up (Volga-German community) -- everyone in town has the "best" seasoning recipe. It always grossed me out too, though.

But if it's done right, it's not harmful. With steak, the bacteria are on the outside of the meat. If you sear a sirloin steak - then grind it - it's no different than eating a very rare steak. (which would still gross me out - but it's not harmful.)

If you just use store-bought hamburger, then the bacteria that were on the outside of the meat has just been ground into it - and that's bad.

[JMO]

If you are worried about raw eggs in cookie dough or various old-style recipes, ask your favorite grocery store to get pasteurized eggs. Yes, they cost about twice as much, but peace of mind can be worth it. Also, dehydrated egg whites are available in many places, and are also safe.

[E. Blackadder]

Over the weekend I made a brine (http://www.dailypundit.com/2006/02/the_weekend_cooking_thread_14.php) and used it in chicken. :roll: -- but in the best way.

Next time I'll try some citrus, as above. Another note: Recently I had the best turkey I've had in years, and this was accomplished by extremely high heat (http://www.actuarialoutpost.com/actuarial_discussion_forum/showpost.php?p=1510573&postcount=93), = 450F. That kind of cooking just might kill much of the bacteria as a useful side effect.

[IAm@Work.com]

Mix two gallons of water
1 cup salt (NOT table salt - coarse kosher salt)

...

Stir sugar, salt and water until dissolved. Not to pick on Traci 5 1/2 years after she posted this, but is there any chance that, once disolved, it makes a difference if it were table salt or coarse kosher salt. Aren't they both just NaCl?

[persephone_ashes]

Raw-burger is a delicacy in the small town where I grew up (Volga-German community) -- everyone in town has the "best" seasoning recipe. It always grossed me out too, though.

i had some great steak tartar in europe. man i love that stuff.

[Brad Gile]

Every Thansksgiving, we have a big extended family dinner and have two turkeys. Last year, we broke tradition and had one of the turkeys FRIED.
That was by far the best turkey I ever ate. I think we have a new tradition for life! :D

Brad

[Emily]

Not to pick on Traci 5 1/2 years after she posted this, but is there any chance that, once disolved, it makes a difference if it were table salt or coarse kosher salt. Aren't they both just NaCl?
I thought the iodine in table salt gives a slightly metallic taste, which is why cooks don't use it. Kosher salt uses a different anti-caking agent.

[Swan]

Every Thansksgiving, we have a big extended family dinner and have two turkeys. Last year, we broke tradition and had one of the turkeys FRIED.
That was by far the best turkey I ever ate. I think we have a new tradition for the very few years we now have left in life. :D
IFYQ. :-P

[Samantha]

I thought the iodine in table salt gives a slightly metallic taste, which is why cooks don't use it. Kosher salt uses a different anti-caking agent.

I believe table salt also absorbs more quickly into the meat than the corser grained kosher salt (I don't know if this has anything to do with the iodine.) So that if you use table salt in a brine, you should use less of it or the meat will be too salty.

[DeepPurple]

I believe table salt also absorbs more quickly into the meat than the corser grained kosher salt (I don't know if this has anything to do with the iodine.) So that if you use table salt in a brine, you should use less of it or the meat will be too salty.



I think you are partially correct. Different types of salt have different densities, so you cannot reliably measure salt by volume - you should measure by mass if you are using quantities above a tablespoon. A cup of pickling salt is heavier than a cup of table salt is heavier than a cup of kosher salt, I believe. But 240 grams of salt is 240 grams no matter the exact kind.


Once is is dissolved in H20, I think the laws of osmosis determine the absorbion into the meat.

I am Alton-a-holic. He hates table salt because of the iodine and its taste. I hope he never gets a goiter. Like Julia's brown eggs and purple towels, the k-salt is just one of his signature idiosynchrasies.