new PD requirements; PD initial plan

[zapped]

Has anyone submitted an initial plan to the SOA without having C1-8, even though the details / restrictions have not been finalized?

My interpretation of the rules not changing for FSA is that you still have to do PD, but not necessarily after C1-8; the web site merely says,

"Fellowship (FSA) requirements are unchanged. Candidates will need to complete any remaining components of the current system, including the Fellowship Admissions Course, in order to obtain the FSA designation."

But it seems to leave open the possibility of doing PD at a time other than post-exams.

So are there any pre-ASAs or pre-FSAa who have submitted an initial plan to see what the SOA might do?

[winker]

I asked this question on 2/6. I have my ASA.

Do the changes in ASA requirements imply that people who have not
finished their exams can submit a PD plan and begin working on it?

... (personal BS)...

Can I submit a PD plan now, and begin working on it? If so, would there be a requirement to pass Course 8 before the plan is finished, or would any part of the plan have to be exam qualified?

... (more BS)

The ombudsperson responded,

The implementation along with all the details have not been finalized
so i don't want to discuss your concerns at this time.

I inferred that my plan wouldn't be accepted at this time, but the question wasn't directly answered.

[zapped]

i wonder what would happen if you submitted a plan. wouldn't it force them to make a decision?

[Me]

I bet they would send it back to you. All they have said is that they will be making a change in the future (soon). I doubt they themselves even know the details of the change. Given how many hoops they make us jump through in general, I'd say your chances of jumping in the right places are practically nil when they haven't even placed the hoops yet. I'm sure there will be all sorts of bizarre restrictions when they put the rules out.

[winker]

maybe, or they may just stall for the next 6 months

i just can't justify putting any time into it without the details being released
i don't think it would be fair to impose on my advisor's time either

i would have thought that some of the people who got screwed on the 2000 conversion (i.e. 45 credits instead of an exam part) would have submitted by now

it seemed a bit irresponsible to announce a change without the details being finalized

apparently i'm at least as anxious as you are about this

i have no spring exams left and think i could knock a good chunk of pd out of the way before i start studying for the fall ... unless they don't give details by then

[Insider]

I've been wondering this same thing. If anyone finds out where they stand on this, please post.

[zapped]

i got a call today from the SOA. they said the old rules apply until the new plan is effective. they do not know when the details will be finished & published. could be a week, could be a month, could be more. i was told to check the web site every day. so in the meantime, at least one of my meetings in my initial plan will probably come & go without my attendance. and i won't do the pricing CD ROM until knowing the additional restrictions. They will probably make up something arbitrary & ridiculous......like you can't do the CD ROM.......or you can't do meetings outside the SOA......i always take the side of the pessimist with the SOA b/c they rarely hand out anything helpful........it always costs you something more.

[almostdone]

Hi zapped,

Are you the one who actively participated in C6 discussion last year and toward the end of June last year left the discussion after mentioning that you might change your career to other fields depending on your result about C6? So, what is your status in terms of exam taking progress? I am just curious. You sound like sticking to the actuarial profession.

[zapped]

is it just me, or are they taking forever to publish the new PD requirements?

[Axsuetarian]

It is not just you.

Has anyone called the SoA (specifically the women in charge of PD - her name escapes me) to ask what they are doing and when they plan on announcing?

[mr.c]

OK, I want to know what the requirements will be! Can I go to Vancouver before (hopefully) passing Course 8 in the fall? Will they still count credits earned before filing the initial plan? Otherwise, I'll likely be stuck paying my own way for the next big meeting since my company only pays for one every two years for ASA's.

Didn't I see somewhere that the SOA exam committee (?) already met again later in January after the announcement? Come on, there aren't that many exam scenarios to consider, especially since this is only a transitory change. :roll:

[zapped]

this, my friends, is getting ridiculous! each week passes, and still no implementation. any theories on why? has anyone talked to the SOA about it lately? i think they are dragging their feet

[Abducens]

Cowboys suck!!

[Just Answer My Questions]

I don't get it - http://www.soa.org/eande/asa_requirements.html

Does that mean we can't submit a plan before passing all 8? Also, does it mean that we can collect more approved PD Credits before 8?

[CaptainCavy]

I don't get it - http://www.soa.org/eande/asa_requirements.html

Does that mean we can't submit a plan before passing all 8?

Restriction 4a says: No plan can be filed until the candidate has received a passing score for Courses 1-4 and one additional component Course 5, 6 or 8 ).

The real kicker I think is this:

4d: A candidate who uses the PD component towards the ASA requirements and who continues to Fellowship must submit a second PD plan to meet the requirements for Fellowship.

[Brad Spirrison]

I'm confused by the whole ASA PD setup with regards to pre-2000 conversion credits. Suppose that you have 30 unassigned exam credits under the old system. Can those be used towards ASA PD or are they only allowed to be used towards FSA PD. Does anyone understand this???

[Brad Spirrison]

Thanks, that makes a lot more sense than how I misunderstood it.

[Just Answer My Questions]

Okay, but for those of us with our ASAs, can we start the PD component before finishing course 8? Anyone, Anyone? Bueller?

[semper augustus]

Question: When can I apply for PD when I am using it towards the ASA requirements? Towards the FSA requirements?

Answer: To be eligible to begin PD, the candidate using PD for the ASA must have passed Courses 1-4, plus one of Courses 5, 6, or 8. The candidate using PD for the FSA must have passed all of Courses 1-8.




Is this what you are asking about?

[annabel lee]

I think the quote you really need is this:

Question: I’m currently an ASA but I haven’t completed Course 7 or 8. Can I go ahead and start my PD plan? You’re allowing pre-ASAs to do so, so why not allow current ASAs to submit plans ahead of passing Course 7 and 8?

Answer: The provisions for submitting PD plans to meet Fellowship requirements are unchanged. ASAs who use the PD component towards their Associateship requirements will be asked to complete a second PD plan upon completion of Courses 1-8. While the examination-validated option used in completing PD toward ASA will carry forward, the project completed within the earlier PD plan is only valid for five years (i.e., candidates taking more than five years to pass the remaining requirements of Courses 1-8 will be required to complete a new project), and the seminar/meeting/program units included in the PD plan for FSA must be entirely new.



If you're an ASA, then you're using PD to meet Fellowship requirements. I doubt that the rule about 15 credits prior to filing has changed. If you're working to meet Fellowship requirements, you can start the PD component prior to finishing 1-8, but the 25-month time frame will begin when you go to your first meeting, if you do that before you file your initial plan. There seems to be no change in the requirement that your Initial Plan be filed only after the completion of Courses 1-8.

[Ham and Cheese]

This is not very well thought out. Forget the new proposed rules for just a minute - - There were provisions put in place (after the fact) for people to attend C7 before completing C1-C6 (which used to be the rules), because it was creating a situation that people were having delays in their exam careers because exams 5 and above were only offered once a year. I'm mean really, was there any other reason for cutting people a break on this prerequisite?

Now they are saying pre-ASA's can file their PD plans (which for the most part will be their final FSA PD - - with the minor exclusion of seminars & "old" project papers), before those who have already completed their ASA. This makes no sense.

My situation is that I'm only waiting on exam 8 - - before I have to begin my PD (which includes the project). Any rational thinking would let me complete my PD requirements during the down time in the Spring, so that once I completed C8 in the fall - - it would be off to the FAC. [I'll even give you the 25 month grace period - shame on me if it takes me that long to pass C8]. As it stands now, the bureaucracy wants me to wait...but for you pre-ASA's go-ahead, pass go and collect $200.

Granted, I wouldn't go back in time and do anything different - - like wait to get my ASA under this system...so that I could get the bulk of the PD finished so I wasn't stuck waiting. But the reality is...the policy to not allow current ASA's to submit early doesn't make sense.

Take for example the following scenario.

Guy #1: C1-4, C6, EA-2A&B, C7, C8, 10 PD units. Not an ASA currently, nor has he gone to the APC. Effective May 1, 2003 submits his ASA PD plan. Completes his paper and PD in the FALL. Attends the APC & becomes an immediate ASA. Sits in the spring 2004 for C5. Passes and resubmits his ASA PD plan as his FSA PD plan and then is off to the FAC.

This guy really isn't that different from my situation - other than it was C5 he was waiting on rather than C8. Except, I have to wait to do my PD & Guy#1 doesn't. You can say I'm whining here - - but this is exactly why they relaxed the standards on attending C7 early.

All right - - before I send a calmer version of this off to the SOA. I would appreciate other thoughts, comments, examples that better make my case. Am I wrong about any of this?

[annabel lee]

Guy #1: C1-4, C6, EA-2A&B, C7, C8, 10 PD units. Not an ASA currently, nor has he gone to the APC. Effective May 1, 2003 submits his ASA PD plan. Completes his paper and PD in the FALL. Attends the APC & becomes an immediate ASA. Sits in the spring 2004 for C5. Passes and resubmits his ASA PD plan as his FSA PD plan and then is off to the FAC.

Well, with only 10 credits (transition, I'm guessing?) you'd be a bit hard-pressed to finish all your remaining PD in the fall -- you'd need an additional 15 credits of exam-validated, plus an entire project, plus another 10 credits. If your final 10 credits came from seminars, they'd have to be re-done for FSA.

[Ham and Cheese]

In my example, the EA2B would count for 25 "exam-content" PD credits.