C8 Past Papers and Solutions

[carzymathematician]

Since CSP is a new exam and the SOA is not planning on releasing a sample exam paper and solution, is it possible to have the past C8 exams and solutions as a part of our SN package? Considering that there is some overlap between CSP and C8, I believe that by having access to these papers, candidates (especially those who have not sat a C8 before) will know what graders are expecting and how to structure their answers so as to meet these expectations. This will definitely improve our chances of passing. If the SOA is unable to include them at this time (since the 2nd mailing is expected to be sent out in the 1st wk of Feb) then I would suggest that they at least make the solutions available online.

[campbell]

At least the old Course 8 exams are on the SOA website:
http://www.soa.org/STATIC/examinations.html

But it doesn't seem they've got any solutions up there.

[yanz]

The test papers by themselves [w/o solutions] only help so much...Have old C8 study manuals provided sample solutions to any of the old exams?

[carzymathematician]

Yanz, u are right! I know for last fall's C8 exams, the past exam papers as well as the solutions were provided as a part of the SN package. So if you know what questions from the old syllabus are now applicable then you can disregard ones that aren't and focus on the ones that are relevant. Now, for persons like myself, who didn't do an exam last fall, there's no way for us to know what exactly is expectd of us unless we have access to these papers :(

[yanz]

While I'd really like to hear something from SOA about this (ie, something along the lines of "of course we'll make Qs and solutions available" :wishful thinking:), I'm wondering if anyone knows whether the study manuals will provide anything...

[carzymathematician]

While I'd really like to hear something from SOA about this (ie, something along the lines of "of course we'll make Qs and solutions available" :wishful thinking:), I'm wondering if anyone knows whether the study manuals will provide anything...

I know Goldfarb who is putting together a manual for APM has relevant past questions and solutions in his.

[pepeTHEgrate]

I have past 2000-2005 solutions, but for 8IU only. I think, no harm will be done if I fax them or email as pdf.

[scooter]

I have past 2000-2005 solutions, but for 8IU only. I think, no harm will be done if I fax them or email as pdf.

Before doing so, you might want to take off the cover page which says "copyright by the Society of Actuaries"

[yanz]

Anything on Finance/ERM?

[yanz]

I'd like to resurrect this thread.

I just spoke to someone at the SOA and they have no intention of releasing solutions (even if we pay for them).

This is very irritating to me. It's one thing to not provide a sample test when creating a new exam (eg, there were no practices issued for FAP). The reasoning here is that the exam committee's precious time needed to be spent on developing the new exam, and providing a sample would mean the committee would have to do twice as much work.

It is entirely different to not provide information that has been provided to candidates in the past as a study aid, and then cutting off this access to new candidates for no good reason.

1. Photocopying a bunch of papers that are just sitting there is not that time consuming. Additionally, we candidates are prepared to pay for this service, if neccessary.

2. The reason I was given for SOA's cutting off access to these solutions was that the CSP exam is a new exam and not the same as C8. Shouldn't it be up to the candidates to decide whether study aids are useful or not? If I really think I'm going to get something out of looking at the old solutions, what's the harm in letting me do so?

3. C8 seems to be an anomaly. Every other old exam that's ever been given and has had solutions published (and by published I mean accessible to anyone outside the SOA) is available on the website. Yes, this includes old exams that don't exist anymore. In fact, it includes old exams that haven't just been updated in terms of content (ie, C1->P, C2->FM, C3->M, C4->C), but it even includes exams that have been totally torn apart and not even offered in that format anymore (ie. C5 and C6). These old C5 and C6 exams and solutions aren't helping anyone, since the material underlying these exams is now tested in either a MC format or by answering questions at ends of modules. All these aids are available to candidates for free. And yet, old C8 solutions, which might potentially be helpful (see #4) are something we can't have access to, even if we are willing to pay.

4. I believe that seeing old C8 solutions would be a very helpful study aid for CSP for 2 main reasons: A) I have no idea what a case study-based exam looks like and how we're expected to answer such questions. Since C8 was also CS-based, looking at C8 solutions would help me understand what kind of thought process is expected in answering the exam questions. B) There is a large overlap in material between the various C8's and CSP's. My understanding is that on average, at least half the readings on the CSP's were pulled from the corresponding C8's they are replacing (of course, this will vary by track). Therefore, some of the old C8 questions may actually serve as sample problems for some of the CSP material.

5. People who've taken a C8 and either failed or chose to take CSP instead of doing PD have access to these old solutions, whereas new candidates do not. One might argue (due to #4) that of the people preparing for CSP, it is the new candidates that need this aid more, since the old C8 candidates have experience that new candidates do not. Instead of trying to equate the two to whatever extent possible, the SOA is furthering the gap by leaving new candidates at a disadvantage compared with their more experienced peers.

Finally, as a testament of how strange SOA's decision is, it turns out that Actex, the main company to provide study manuals, was unaware that SOA was cutting off access to the solutions, and had written their manuals under the assumption that students would get old C8 solutions from the SOA. This means, they did not include any old C8 questions or solutions in their manuals (and will not change that now). Their response to the news was both surprised and apologetic, which means that they probably think the solutions would be a valuable study aid as well.

I would like this issue to be addressed by the SOA because from a student's point of view, the decision makes no sense. If there is some logic underlying the decision that we're not seeing here, I would really like to hear about it, because otherwise, I'm convinced I'm being screwed - plain and simple.

The fact that the exam is 12 weeks away and I still don't have a case study that this 6 hr exam is supposedly based on doesn't really help my perception of things either...

[Kenny]

I skimmed most of your post. I agree it would be a very useful study aid. However, you need to keep in mind that the prior C8 exams were not neccesarily provided as a "study aid" during past exam sittings. Old C8 exams were technically part of the syllabus as one of the required readings.

No doubt a minor distinction and one that probably won't effect your opinion, but I thought I would point it out.

[yanz]

Thanks, Kenny. I'm not sure I understand what the distinction is regarding past C8s (if it's a required reading, then should you expect to see Qs on the old Qs?), but thanks for the feedback.

I'd still like an explanation from someone at the SOA, along with comments regarding whether or not it would be 'illegal' for an old C8er to copy his stuff and pass it along (as proposed previously in this thread).

[carzymathematician]

I'd still like an explanation from someone at the SOA, along with comments regarding whether or not it would be 'illegal' for an old C8er to copy his stuff and pass it along (as proposed previously in this thread).

I will not be holding my breath!

[yanz]

I will not be holding my breath!

Well, if they don't tell my I can't photocopy someone else's old exam solutions, then I'll be going ahead and doing just that.

[Mel]

Of course, what about those of us who cannot find anyone who has those solutions? This is a very unfair advantage and completely silly since the SOA could easily scan the model solutions they made sent out before and link them as a pdf on the site like all the other solutions. Or as pointed out before, we could pay for copies to be sent to us. Either way, very very little work on the SOA's part to make us much more happy and make our studying more equitable to those who have taken a C8 before.

[carzymathematician]

Well, if they don't tell my I can't photocopy someone else's old exam solutions, then I'll be going ahead and doing just that.

Does anyone from the SOA read this site? More specifically, anyone who is involved in this new CSP exam process? Is it far-fetched to think that they will respond to the very valid points raised by you? I am just wondering since I share ur exact sentiments!

[Willie Mosconi]

I just sent a PM to Bruce, to which he already responded. He has been working on this for 2 days, and will hopefully respond to either this thread or the one in the CSP forum soon.

[bdschobel]

Solutions to Course 8 exams from 2003-05 will be available on the SOA website pretty soon. (And don't nag me about what "pretty soon" means.) Normally these are included in study notes, but since nobody is buying Course 8 study notes any more, we'll just post them. That should help. We'll see what can be done about the 2006 exam. No promises right now!

Bruce

[carzymathematician]

I'll take the '03-'05. Right now, "anything" is better than nothing!

[bdschobel]

http://www.soa.org/STATIC/examinations.html

[campbell]

Thanks -- this is handy!

[Willie Mosconi]

Thanks -- this is handy!

Ditto. Thanks Bruce!!

[pepeTHEgrate]

SOA says, C8 2006 solutions will be posted in June 2007.

Will yanz feel "unscrewed" then?

[yanz]

SOA says, C8 2006 solutions will be posted in June 2007.

Will yanz feel "unscrewed" then?

Was that supposed to be funny?

[pepeTHEgrate]

I'm dead serious: look at
http://www.soa.org/STATIC/examinations.html

[yanz]

I'm dead serious: look at
http://www.soa.org/STATIC/examinations.html

I already knew that (posted by Bruce a month or 2 ago). I was referring to your other comment...

[Kazodev]

Is this about to go :reef: