Overload of Actuaries?

[DeviouZ]

I don't know if it's the same outside Australia, but the amount of wannabe actuaries over here at Melbourne University is rather staggering... I've just started my actuarial studies major a few weeks ago, and what's even more surprising is pretty much every Uni student I talk to has a vague idea of what actuarial studies involves (enough to give me a sigh of commiseration anyway lol)

What I am asking is that perhaps actuarial studies is the new trend and I'm worried that by the time I've finished my degree and am ready to enter the workforce that it may mirror the IT situation to some extent, presenting difficulties to find a job in the field... any thoughts?

By the way, I am fully aware that quite a lot of these first year students will probably not end up having the commitment to go all the way with the profession, but nevertheless there are FAR more students in this 'little known' field then I expected...

[DW Simpson]

We're seeing enough Australian opportunities that we established an office there this month. Australia represents one of the biggest growth areas for actuaries in the world for the next several years.

[42]

How many wannabes are we talking about? I remember a time in the late 1980's when the University of Waterloo had about 200 graduating students (a few years after "actuary" was ranked the #1 job). I think it was the first time they couldn't all find jobs.

[DW Simpson]

Not as many http://www.economics.unimelb.edu.au/actwww/AR2001.html#S7

[jets fan]

By the way, I am fully aware that quite a lot of these first year students will probably not end up having the commitment to go all the way with the profession, but nevertheless there are FAR more students in this 'little known' field then I expected...

Yes, the more telling number will be how many of these 'wannabe' people stick with it for 4 years of college. There will be 'weed-outs' along the way, like the raised difficulty of general college classes vs. high school, then the specialized math/stat/actuarial courses, then the actuarial exams, which IMO are designed to do that.

[Jables]

I went to a relative small college, and my freshman class was about 700 people or so, and I was surprised to see a class of 40 taking Calc 1 with me the first semester, so I thought actuarial math may have been more popular than I first thought... but by the end of 4 years of college, my class graduated only a dozen actuarial majors...

[42]

Not as many http://www.economics.unimelb.edu.au/actwww/AR2001.html#S7

Ha! You call that a lot, DeviouZ?? My graduating class at U of W had more Act Sci grads than that, and that was way back in 19..., 19..., :oops: well, let's just say back when the exams were hard and "Actuary" was spelled using some Old English letters that are no longer in the alphabet so you young'ns wouldn't recognize it! :D

Seriously, I wouldn't worry about it.

[neofan]

Another factor to consider, once the tech/telecom sectors recover, many will drop out of the student program.

[Spectrum]

During the tech boom in the late 90s the quality of new applicants dropped signigicantly at my workplace. Now that tech has dried up the quality of new applicants has really gotten good. I think you are asking the right question as relatively more people want to becomae an actuary and less want to become a computer programmer. People are naturally following where the jobs and money are. Just make sure you are better than average. Get a GPA 3.5, pass the first couple SOA exams, get an intership before you graduate, and practice your interview skills.

[DeviouZ]

Yeah well that report was obviously of graduates that started the course about 4 years ago... I'd say there's many times more graduates vying for the course this year round... and it's definitely all about money, I mentioned how everyone groans, the only other reaction get is an impressed look accompanied by 'Wow, ur gonna be rich some day' lol... :)

And good advice spectrum, cept I'm not sure I'll be needing to do the exams since we have the chance for exemptions for up to 5 exams around here with our course... is that a good thing? I've heard that employers really wanna see at least 1 exam result so yeh, I dunno.

[McUSA]

I think that the popularity of the actuarial profession among university and entry level candidates only has an impact on the entry level positions. The vast majority of credentialled actuaries come from actuarial analyst/student paid positions.

So the long term supply of credentialled actuaries (at least in North America) is a function of lower level actuarial jobs.

So my advice is to be persistent and patient in getting a good analyst position with study time. After that, you just need to pass exams.

[Elisha]

McUSA,
Like the avatar change. Why didn't you change it to Trista? :)

[new2for]

DWSimpson Webmaster,
Does that mean that Australia has added Actuaries to their list of professions they need, hence giving more points to actuaries in their point system for getting a visa or citizenship?

[DW Simpson]

Actuaries are mentioned (http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&num=10&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=actuary+actuarial+actuaries&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=immi.gov.au&safe=images) a lot on the Australian immigration website, and actuaries are on the Australian skilled occupations list, but I don't know whether that means they're on a list of occupations that they need.

[Dumbo]

When I began to study, the situation was very similar. A whole 90 of us graduated in 92. There were NO jobs.

I will spare you the details on the sacrifice it took to hang in.

Recently, I was reviewing an actuaries' salary survey of 1992 and 2002.
Turns out that a fellow with my years of experience earns the same thing in 2002 as he would have earned in 1992 (yes, before inflation).

I remember at the end of the 80s when everyone was saying that actuaries were the best thing, and "major growth opportunities" blah blah.
Remember the bills that were distributed in the dustbowl (in "Grapes of Wrath") ?

But when you've identified a demographic wave like you described, you know it's going to be a disaster. Seriously consider other options.

[DW Simpson]

Dumbo, to which country are you referring in your 1992 and 2002 salary surveys references?

[Dumbo]

A country that was in a similar situation back then.
A country where that profession was highly regarded (no life company ever went bankrupt used to boast our professors).

Why, Canada of course.