What to do after a car wreck

[The Mister]

<font size=2>Just had a car wreck Friday night. (Bear with me, there are survey questions at the end of this post...)

So far, my insurance company is taking care of things. If the other guy WAS insured (probably wasn't, seeing as how he was arrested on the scene), they'll just pass it on and I won't have to pay the $250 deductible on uninsured motorist coverage. No biggie either way, I suppose.

When the other guy hit us from behind, the back of my seat as well as that of my wife's seat fell back. (Essentially my wife was lying down by the time we came to a stop.)

Questions that I have answers for already: Should we go see a doctor, even though we're only slightly sore? (Yes, I'll make an appointment today.)Questions for you: Some people @ work are saying that because the seats fell back I could be compensated for product liability. What is your input on this? Should I call a lawyer first or see the doctor first? (I.e., do I need to establish a medical condition first?) Do any of you have experience with this? What kind of rate should I be looking for to finance a used midsize sedan? (e.g. Camry, Accord, Mazda 626, Altima) Is there any other recourse (not necessarily legal) that I haven't mentioned here that you would suggest I consider?Thanks.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The Mister on 2001-12-03 13:43 ]</font>

[Minerva]

Unfortunately, we've had a couple of these situations (not the uninsured motorist part, but both sides) in the last three years.

Make an appointment to see a physician now. (Talk to your family doc - probably an orthopaedic surgeon.) As soon as the accident report is filed, you'll be contacted by numerous attorneys and chiropractors. BUT - the main reason to see a physician now is for your health (establishing injury for future purposes is a side benefit, not the primary purpose).

"Whiplash" is a very real injury, and is not always easily detected, especially at first, so some baseline info is also good.

From a legal standpoint, in most states you have two years to file suit, so I'd wait to see what happens. (My personal opinion is that our society is too litigious. If you are indeed damaged in some way and a lawsuit is your only redress, then go for it. But, don't just contact a lawyer right now.)

[WQN]

[The Mister]

On 2001-12-03 13:53, Minerva wrote:
(establishing injury for future purposes is a side benefit, not the primary purpose.)<font size=2>Correct. That's one reason I separated that question (and what I knew to be the answer) from the others.

Thanks for your input.

[M.]

My wife went through this a few months back. She tried to make an appointment with the family doctor. However, his office told us that for insurance reasons, we were better off going to an Immediate Care Center.

We're very glad she was evaluated. The doctor ordered X-rays which showed damage that my wife did not feel for several days. She was able to start taking medicine before the worst of the pain set in, reducing the severity of her symptoms when they did occur. Getting the evaluation also makes it easier to argue your case if the insurer is not cooperative.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: M on 2001-12-03 16:43 ]</font>

[The Mister]

<font size=2>Wow, thanks for the advice, M!

I just convinced my wife to call her sub back. We'll be going to a doc-in-a-box on Wednesday morning. (Couldn't have gone tomorrow unless she had had advance notice. Just too much to plan for with those li'l kids!) Hopefully the pain won't set in until we can get our prescriptions. And the pain will set in... it's just a matter of time.

[42]

I can't provide much help other than to say that I too was in an accident where I was hit from behind and my seat collapsed - is it really that uncommon? I never thought of suing for product liability, but then (a) it was a Ford (so what did I expect) and (b) I'm Canadian (i.e., I don't my lawyer as #1 on my speed dial). I hope everything works out well for you and your wife.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

I think it's obvious:
1. Don't buy Fords.
2. Don't jump into your car every single time, as if the car seat were built to withstand your weight*4 forever. (I.e., you might have worn out the catching mechanism. Too bad (for Ford) that Ford doesn't list this as something to check every 15,000 mils or so.)

[The Mister]

<font size=2>Hmmm... well, apparently a number of people here at my work seem to be a bit lawyer-happy. Every time I mention the seat damage, someone says, "Ooh, product liability!" Someone even emailed his lawyer's name and told me to call him right away. I said, "Thanks, I'll call if I need him." He replied, "Trust me, you'll need him." He, of course, is the extreme case, but a lot of people are suggesting that it might be an option. If we're not in any significant amount of pain, then I don't think I'd have a case anyway.

Corolla. Thank goodness his car was about the same size. We *spun* 1.5 times across all four lanes of traffic and hit the wall on the other side. Somehow no other car was hit, and it seems we got away with some soft tissue damage and a couple of bruises. Maybe some neck and back problems later on, but we'll just have to see about that.]

Oh, and because our plan doesn't have a doc-in-a-box in-network, we decided to get examined last night at a hospital rather than wait. What a waste of time. Sat in the room for about 2 hours waiting to get X-rays that told them essentially nothing. (Look, some tension and inflammation! Must've been in a wreck or something. Here, have some muscle relaxants.)

*sigh*

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The Mister on 2001-12-04 10:28 ]</font>

[Laffit Pincay, Jr.]

Hey Mister!

Before you cut a lawyer into your share of any insurance settlement proceeds from this accident I think you should wait to see what the insurer(s) do.

Insurance is a great invention for covering any out of pocket expenses that you may have due to an accidental event. You may find that all of your medical and casualty losses are fully reimbursed leaving you in no worse financial condition than you were before the wreck.

If the insurance companies balk or don't fully satisfy you it is then time to get an attorney and litigate until you are happy. At this point a lawyer would take a cut of anything they say they got for you even if it is what you would have received as a settlement anyway.

You don't have a product liability suit based on the seats breaking down in your Corolla, they probably did exactly what they were engineered to do. Buy a better car if you want better personal protection, think of this as a blessing, you can now ditch the Toyota at better than trade-in value.

[42]

On 2001-12-03 19:30, Dr T Non-Fan wrote: I think it's obvious:
1. Don't buy Fords.
2. Don't jump into your car every single time, as if the car seat were built to withstand your weight*4 forever. (I.e., you might have worn out the catching mechanism. Too bad (for Ford) that Ford doesn't list this as something to check every 15,000 mils or so.) Good advice. For the record, the car was brand spankin' new, purchased less than a month before the accident. I don't think I had worn anything out yet.

Laffit's comment about paying for out of pocket expenses got me thinking about an accident I had a few months ago. Maybe somebody on the P&C side can help explain the following:

The accident was the other driver's fault. It left a very large dent in the side of my car. I d*mned near died when the body shop gave me an estimate of $3000. (It was just a dent!) When I told the other guy's insurance company, they insisted on inspecting the damage for themselves (which I expected). They concluded that the damage was really only $2800 (which I didn't expect), and they cut me a check on the spot (which, well, :eek:.) I expected them to reimburse me for expenses, but they just gave me the money up front.

I can spend the $2800 to get a dent removed from a 10-year-old car that has over 200,000 miles on it, or put the money toward the purchase price of a new car - a no-brainer for me! The thing is, if they offered me the choice between reimbursing me to get the dent repaired OR $1000 cash, I would have taken the $1000. They just threw $1800 away.

Question: Is there some sort of insurance regulation for Auto policies that prevents the company from offering a cash settlement that is less than the cost of the repair?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 42 on 2001-12-04 17:21 ]</font>

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Another rule of thumb: with a seemingly minor neck injury, put ICE on it. Not heat. Yeah, ice hurts your skin a bit, and the heat feels oh-so-good. But the last thing you want on an injured muscle or tissue is more blood. Makes for a longer recovery period.
Ice is no good after about 48 hours.
Keep ice on affected area until you can't stand the coldness, and wait just a litle longer. take 5 minutes. Then repeat.

[Laffit Pincay, Jr.]

In response to 42's question, I don't think that it is illegal for the insurance company to low ball you but since they save money by quickly closing a claim they try to keep things reasonable and get it over with at the lowest expense to them. Their expenses per claim per week open are probably more than the difference that you would have accepted. A lot of people would not have settled for the $1,000.

The opposite of your dented fender happened to me. My 11 year old Suzuki Samurai was rear-ended and pushed into the SUV ahead of me. The body shop guy said it was totalled since both bumpers were trashed. The at-fault party's insurance company insisted on paying the body shop to repair the car at about $2,800.

I bought the car new for $6,800 and put 130,000 miles on it. A check for $2,800 would have been preferred. After they fixed the car I gave it to charity and took a $3,000 tax deduction on it. It is hard to predict auto insurance company behavior.

[Intents]

It is my understanding that claims adjusters are paid on commission. They get a percentage of (expected-actual) claim.

[Anonymous]

Claims adjusters paid on commission? No way that can be true (can it?). Talk about creating a window for fraud and abuse.

[Oracle]

My husband was rear-ended while commuting. The bumper on his pickup had to be replaced. I forget the exact numbers, but I think the bumper was added by the dealer for about $450, including labor to install it. The claims adjuster offered $600 plus labor. When he questioned our insurance agent about accepting more than we thought it was worth, the advice he got was to take it - that the company kept their own statistics on what the charges were on common repairs. So he took it.

[Minerva]

DTNF - ICE is absolutely correct.

The rule is 20 minutes on, 20 minutes off, repeat for several days. That pattern maximizes the therapeutic effects without damaging the tissue.

[Anonymous]

My ex-husband is a claims adjuster. His company did not pay on commissions. Maybe some independent adjusting firms are paid by casualty companies that way on referred claims, but I don't know any company employees who are paid on commissions. (Of course their annual profit sharing bonuses are tied to company earnings so they have an incentive to settle for the lowest amount possible.) He always told me if you ever get in a wreck, be sure to go to the hospital, just in case injuries surface later. My friend was rear ended and her seat broke loose. When I asked him about it, he said that is very common in rear end accidents, so I don't think you could sue for that.

I hope you and your wife do not have any serious long term injuries. Did your air bags help?

[The Mister]

On 2001-12-05 10:05, Ellen Retz wrote:
I hope you and your wife do not have any serious long term injuries. Did your air bags help?<font size=2>Well, since we were hit from behind, the air bags did not go off, nor was there any reason that they should have (as I understand it). So far my wife and I are fine, though stiff.

[The Mister]

On 2001-12-05 09:45, Minerva wrote:
DTNF - ICE is absolutely correct.

The rule is 20 minutes on, 20 minutes off, repeat for several days. That pattern maximizes the therapeutic effects without damaging the tissue.<font size=2>Dang! We've been taking hot baths. It's been 4.5 days since the accident, though. Would cold still help?

[Anonymous]

I thought maybe they went off when you hit the wall on the other side. It sounds like you're very lucky you're alive!

Have you gotten the police report of the accident yet? If not, I'd advise you to do so. Among other things, it will say the other driver's insurance carrier, if he is insured. It may also help you in dealing with his company. I was in a 3 car wreck in 2000. A man ran a red light in front of me. I saw him coming but I couldn't stop in time. Both of our vehicles were totalled, and 5 of us were taken away in the ambulance. He was totally disoriented in the ambulance and kept saying, "What happened? Did somebody hit me?" It was during rush hour at a busy intersection, and there were many witnesses. The adjuster for his company kept giving me the run around, saying he thought I ran the light. When I got a copy of the police report, it named several witnesses saying he ran the light, and said he was issued a ticket. Since your guy was arrested, you can also see if he was charged with reckless driving or if it was because he has no coverage.

[The Mister]

On 2001-12-05 10:28, Ellen Retz wrote:
I thought maybe they went off when you hit the wall on the other side.!<font size=2>No, we actually hit the wall with the left side of the car going backwards.It sounds like you're very lucky you're alive!<font size=2>I agree!Have you gotten the police report of the accident yet? If not, I'd advise you to do so.I'd love to. (1) My insurance company is already in the process of ordering one, but (2) The Dallas PD takes 5-7 business days to process the report, and another 2 days to get it to the requestor. Also, to order it, I have to either write a letter making the request or actually show up @ headquarters, fill out the paperwork and pay $6 for it, and only after it's been filed. No thanks, I can wait for my insurance to get it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The Mister on 2001-12-05 11:03 ]</font>

[Pub Guy]

This is kinda off-topic, but the latest Consumer Reports magazine issue features damage to cars and it's effect on resale value. It was interesting to read how these cars end up in unsuspecting folks' hands.

On the flip-side of the above, I'm dealing with this issue now. My relatively new car is being fixed after a recent accident and I'm concerned about it's value dropping as a result of the substantial body damage ($6K), even if it's fixed correctly (ie., given 2 otherwise identical cars, you would probably buy the one that was never in an accident versust the one that was repaired). After doing a little investigating, it appears most insurance companies don't consider Loss of Value, unless you sell your car (in which case the Loss of Value becomes determinable and tangible). I think this is ridiculous, as you have to sell your car to get fully compensated for your total loss. Anyhow, right now I'm just trying to find an expert who will look at the car after repairs are made and tell me that it was repaired to its pre-accident condition.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Hot baths? Too bad, you're scarred for life.

(NOTE: The follwoing is not medical advice. It is for entertainment purposes only. (Like astrology, only more entertaining.))

What you need to do is reinjure your neck. That will allow you to put ice on it, and it just might fix your current injury.

[42]

DTNF, I know your comment was tongue-in-cheek, and I know that "reinjuring the injured area" is something you would never intentionally want to do, but sometimes it actually does work! Once, I injured my back and was in agony for months, and then had a bad fall and landed on my back. Whatever was out of line was miraculously knocked back in by the second injury. I thought this was an isolated incident, but the same thing happened again with my ankle, and then a third time with a pinched nerve in my knee. Nevertheless, I do not recommend that The Mister go trolling for lunatic drivers to throw his new car in front of.

[The Mister]

On 2001-12-07 16:25, 42 wrote:
Nevertheless, I do not recommend that The Mister go trolling for lunatic drivers to throw his new car in front of.<font size=2>No thank you... I like my new car.

[I don't like the monthly payment, from which I was free for 20 months, nor the $20 increase in my auto policy due to the new-ness of the car (2001 midsize versus 1994 compact), but I do like the V6 engine, CD player, swivelling air vents and better leg room. :smile: ]

[Laffit Pincay, Jr.]

That is the exact cure used on many Gilligan's Island episodes.

Hit on head = amnesia
Hit again on head = back to normal

The Flintstone's also practiced this strange medicine.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

It's a joke along the lines of rebreaking a leg that hasn't mended well.

I wish I were cruel enough not to use full disclosure, and tried to fool as many people as possible with my wit as a tool for evil.

[The Mister]

On 2001-12-07 16:58, Dr T Non-Fan wrote:
I wish I were cruel enough not to use full disclosure, and tried to fool as many people as possible with my wit as a tool for evil.<font size=2>No, DTNF. We can see through your - ahem - "wit" much more easily than you think. :wink:

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Now I'm hurt.

[42]

On 2001-12-07 16:42, The Mister wrote:
On 2001-12-07 16:25, 42 wrote:
Nevertheless, I do not recommend that The Mister go trolling for lunatic drivers to throw his new car in front of.<font size=2>No thank you... I like my new car.I knew I should have bolded the word "not" in my post.

[Laffit Pincay, Jr.]

Congratulations on the new car purchase, Mister! I think you'll enjoy the extra room without that much of a drop in gas mileage. It is amazing what the newest generation of sixes can do.

No buyer's remorse now, 20 months is a long time to go without a car payment. Your contribution to this weak economy is appreciated.

Drive on safely and in good health.

[The Mister]

On 2001-12-07 17:32, Laffit Pincay, Jr. wrote:
Congratulations on the new car purchase, Mister!<font size=2>Thanks, LPJ!No buyer's remorse now, 20 months is a long time to go without a car payment. Your contribution to this weak economy is appreciated.Yes, but the Corolla had probably another 50K left in its life. :sad:

On the other hand, I'm getting more than I expected from the insurance company WRT the car settlement.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The Mister on 2001-12-07 17:44 ]</font>

[Macroman]

On 2001-12-07 16:42, Laffit Pincay, Jr. wrote:
That is the exact cure used on many Gilligan's Island episodes.

Hit on head = amnesia
Hit again on head = back to normal

The Flintstone's also practiced this strange medicine.



This is also part of the plastic surgeon's standard Modus Operandi (sp?). Anyway, if tou don't like the way your nose looks they can break it and reshape it for you. I'm sure this is not the only instance of bodily destruction in real medicine.

[42]

On 2001-12-07 17:43, The Mister wrote:
I'm getting more than I expected from the insurance company WRT the car settlement. That always makes it a little easier to take. Did they pay you blue book value?

[The Mister]

On 2001-12-10 12:31, 42 wrote:
Did they pay you blue book value?<font size=2>No, they went by NADA.

[42]

What's NADA?

[Take 2]

National Auto Dealers Association (who's that?)
or, in Spanish, nothing.
If you ask a price in Spanish, 'de NADA' means you're welcome.