Religion

[Andy Lang]

From today's Philly Inquirer:

'Penelope Cruz's parents have given their blessing to her new romance with Tom Cruise. The NY Daily News cites reports out of Spain claiming that Cruz's Catholic parents have frowned upon the relationship because Cruse is a member of the Church of Scientology. But the couple's people say all was cool after Cruise met her folks. (Penelope Cruz is a Buddhist.)"She is not thinking of converting to Scientology, but she respects it as a religion, as do her parents," a spokesman told the paper."

Yeah, but will she respect it in the morning or after she reads the Truly Bad science fiction of El Ron Hubbard?

Maybe she got a rattlesnake in the mailbox--hey, these nice folks were way ahead of the present anthrax terrorists.

Once drove past their palace right off the Belt Parkway in Brooklyn--the religious business is good these days.

Also they showed up an a high-tech meeting I attended in Valley Forge a few yaers back at a scientific booth--El Ron's many books were there along with some other very mysterious sciences.

How did they get in I asked one of the organizers--Was it a miracle? No just a threatened lawsuit, their favorite means of converting the infidels, along with poisonous snakes.

Do you know the GOP faithful protect these guys overseas in places like Germany where they think these folks are just cult groups out to bilk the public. How dare they interfere with the free exercise of religion?

Gotta get their 3 commandments in schools and government walls, along side the other 11---oops, crash--, 10, 10!

I attended the high-tech meeting with a gorgeous blonde Lithuanian Princess--hey it's good to be half Lithuanian. You shouda seen the large bags of goodies the former high-testosterone dotcomers were giving away to this gal--when she went back to her home county she was loaded down so much with shopping bags with the freebies that if they had the security checks we now have it would have taken her forever and all those little knives would have been confiscated and the sharp penpoints would have been broken off. When she returned home she really was a queen, Lithuania having never seen anything like that, nor did her fantastic stories of her Wizard friend from the Magical Land of America beyond the seas.

Why is it we have to say we 'respect' a religion like the fine folks at this business organization.

Why cant we call them just a Full of Crapolla Organization That Uses Our Precious Tax Dollars, like everyone knows? (except for Bush and Ashcroft and Cruise and that guy from the old tV show who hit it big in the movies when he did that dance thing with his hips and all those flashing lights ,and then made a comeback with some really cool moves as a much older guy who killed all those people and likes french Big Macks, whoch are called Big Macks).

I used to be able to do that too, but nobody ever asked me to be in the movies and get all those babes. (I mean the Big Macks, not the dance moves.)

[Anonymous]

Andy? Long-winded? Nah!

[Gandalf]

Did anyone read as far as the fourth paragraph from the end?

If so, did Princess Fiona and I get dissed?

Are there any other princesses with wizard friends around these parts?

[E. Blackadder]

No. Lithuania got dissed. A**y doesn't like "Capitalist roaders." Neither did Mao.

The fundamental trap -- and we need to be clear on this -- the fundamental trap is that you read the post in the first place. Once you fell for that there was no turning back.

[gentle tangent]
The problem with A**y is that sometimes he forgets to have his heart in the wrong place. For instance, he's attacking Scientology, now. Good thought. Bad move. I see heap big lawsuit heading his way. :toast:

Of course anyone who can't stand L. Ron Hubbard's writings must have some inner core of good -- no matter how well hidden.

I suspect sometimes that A**y once read "Battlefield Earth" (or worse, that decagology) and it affected his writing style.

[Jed the Humanoid]

Ok, I would hate to start a Tangent when it's the actual topic I'd like to hear people's opinion about...

Scientology, my favourite folks. Am I the only one with horror stories and brainwashed friends with this cult? They were active where I grew up and used "business consulting/reengineering" services as their Trojan Horse. They would infiltrate small/medium size companies, brainwash the owners, have all employees who do not convert fired, etc. All in good fun.

And now when I walk on Hollywood blvd, i can see their temple. And scientology santa ready to have all kids sit on his lap while their parents do the personality test in which they'll learn that they are suicidal or have a reactive mind. Heck, they even have a street "Ron Hubbard Drive" here.

They are truly good at what their doing, in their evil sort of ways. And have a lot of appeal among hollywood Stars (Cruise, Travolta, Alley, etc.). Even Ben Stiller in interview with Stern the other morning, said he was very interested in knowing more about it.

Are people looking for a sense in their life so much that they will believe any drivel ? That they will spend all their savings on a purification journey to get rid of their reactive mind and "go clear"? It is alleged that once you go clear, you have a perfect memory of every moment of your entire life. The first demonstration of "the first clear human being" took place in LA yeeears ago, I wish I had Mike Davis' "City of Quartz" handy to share his version of the events. It's pretty funny, in a sad kind of way.

Should they be considered a religion and given the rights associated with that status? Is it just a cult and should we do like they did in Germany ? Where do we draw the line between WacoDavidians and this? As long as it's just a scam for money it's all right ?

I know this is probably the end of this thread :smile: With my long reply and Andy's usual wordiness, qx tends to 1 on this thread :smile: (if i remember any of my life contingencies stuff correctly)

But any comments/opinions/experiences are welcome !

[Huki]

Scientology is a good thing. It helps put into perspective the weight to place on the Hollywood stars' opinions on other issues - the environment, the war, GWB, etc.

[Anonymous]

Way to go Huki! Succint and to the point!

[Andy Lang]

[But any comments/opinions/experiences are welcome !

Are people looking for a sense in their life so much that they will believe any drivel ?

That they will spend all their savings on a purification journey to get rid of their reactive mind and "go clear"? It is alleged that once you go clear, you have a perfect memory of every moment of your entire life.]

Yes.
Yes.
I have been clear for years.

[Where do we draw the line between WacoDavidians and this? As long as it's just a scam for money it's all right?}

The WacoDavidian Maximum leader, Koresh, was all about money too--along with some sex with kids too. I saw it on TV.

[I know this is probably the end of this thread With my long reply and Andy's usual wordiness,...]

No. What wordiness? I just gave you succinct.

[Andy Lang]

[If so, did Princess Fiona and I get dissed?]

Huh?

I am the only one allowed to be paranoid here...especially when they really are after me.

[Abducens]

>>the other 11---oops, crash--, 10, 10 [commandments]!

Dude, everyone knows that it was 15 before Mel drops the tablet. Man, I'm only like 27 years old and I know that.

[Anonymous]

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

[Anonymous]

Maybe this belongs in another thread, but once a person reaches the age of 'like 27', isn't time to stop using the word 'Dude' - unless it's immediately followed by 'Ranch'?

[Abducens]

>>Maybe this belongs in another thread, but once a person reaches the age of 'like 27', isn't time to stop using the word 'Dude' - unless it's immediately followed by 'Ranch'?

So it's official, you really do have no sense of humor! Dude.

[Hagbard Celine]

Yeah, dude, I'm with Abs.

I say Dude all the time.

I'm not yet 27 but I hope to god I'm still saying things like that when I'm 27.

Loosen up a bit...you're supposed to enjoy life.

[Abducens]

Dude. Kick ass. High Fives. SHyeahh.

[Anonymous]

Ummmm...

Boo-Yah?

[Jack]

Pensonally I believe Kurt Vonnagut (sp?) Jr. is God. Hey, if your gonna diefy (sp?) a science fiction writer, he may as well be a good one

[Intents]

(with proper inflective)

That's what I'm talkin about ...


drives my teenage son nuts imitating Snoop Dogg

[Abducens]

>>Boo-Yah?

Hey, it's not like I make them up or anything.

[E. Blackadder]

Vonnegut denies writing science fiction. Who are you to dispute him?

Is there anything good out there? "Spider" Robinson is readable, but a one-note theme. Niven and Pournelle are more than OK, but don't make for a balanced diet. ME NEED MORE GOOD STUFF.

I'm almost down to reading the copy of "Battlefield Earth" that I've had for 20 years...

[Princess Fiona]

"If so, did Princess Fiona and I get dissed"

Gandalf, I don't mind getting dissed as long as I get to do it with you! :wink:

[glenn]

Is there anything good out there? "Spider" Robinson is readable, but a one-note theme. Niven and Pournelle are more than OK, but don't make for a balanced diet. ME NEED MORE GOOD STUFF.

I'm almost down to reading the copy of "Battlefield Earth" that I've had for 20 years...

Some of the stuff I liked when I had time to read (not recently)
<ul>
Orson Scott Card (a MORMON by gawd, perhaps others can comment further lol)
Mike Resnick
Glenn Cooke (seriously!)
Timothy Zahn
Jack L. Chalker
[/list]
Resnick is about the calibre of Robinson. Cooke and Chalker are more fantasy than Sci-Fi. Zahn is a bit softer than either Niven or Pournelle. They are all a light read. If you haven't picked one up lately, there's always old Heinlien.

I just finished Dreamcatcher by S. King. Very typical King stuff, but based on a sci-fi premise (little grey men with big eyes).

[The Mister]

On 2001-12-05 13:53, Intents wrote:
(with proper inflective)
That's what I'm talkin about ...
drives my teenage son nuts imitating Snoop Dogg<font size=2>Aaaiiight...
Froofie froofie froo-froo, jaw.
Knowum sayum?
Jyeeaaah.

[Flora]

http://www.casact.org/students/forums/noncgi/Forum14/HTML/002404.html

the CAZ kids recommendations

[Abducens]

>>Gandalf, I don't mind getting dissed as long as I get to do it with you!

Please disclose your age so that we may tell you whether or not you can say "dissed." Thank you for your attention to this matter.

[Anonymous]

Does that mean I get no credit for Boo-Yah?

[Ammie]

I suspect Fiona, who seemingly just got dissed again, is a full fledged adult. :smile:

[Princess Fiona]

For the record, I am post puberty, pre-menopause. Does that help?

Dude, who cares how old I am? I am legal...does anything else really matter? :wink:

[Anonymous]

does anything else really matter? :wink:


Yeah....do ya swallow? :wink: :nudge: :surprise:

[Anonymous]

p.s. I really like this crowd. Y'all are raaaun-chy!!!

[Nature Boy]

good to see you in such a good mood kotayk-man !

whoooooooo

[Princess Fiona]

Do I swallow? Anything in particular? I swallow a wide variety of things. I'm not sure I know you well enough to tell you anything specific

[Gandalf]

On 2001-12-05 14:53, Abducens wrote (to Princess Fiona):

Please disclose your age so that we may tell you whether or not you can say "dissed." Thank you for your attention to this matter.


You miss the point. The right to "dissed" is transferrable.

Hagbard, who may use it by virtue of his age, told Aimless (humorously) that we had been dissed big time by Wolverine for his defection to the chicks. With our "one for all, all for one" attitude, that clearly gave all of Aimless, and our dates and friends, the right to use "dissed".

Likewise, if it is determined that the princess and I were dissed, I hope Andy is prepared to face the wrath of a jedi knight, a Chinese warrior, an adventuress and others.

[Anonymous]

...and a crazed rapper, packin' heat...

[Polly Nomial]

What makes Scientology a cult and Catholicism (or any religion) not?

[Guerilla poster]

All organized religion is cultish - one should only believe in that which they believe themselves.

[Andy Lang]

Polly--Catholicism is a cult--that has morphed over two thousand years to be presentable to many.

Check out these books:

1. Hitler's Pope.(Crowell)
2. Papal Sin (Wills)
3. A Book by Bernstein and a very Knowlegeble journalist from Rome on Pope John Paul II (upstairs--too lazy to get right now.)

Anyway--great stuff--and there are many more.

PPII was selected by Reagan befor ehe took the oath of office in 1980 to get rifdo f communism--and in the eraly part of his firsat administration he sent Bill Casey, Director of the CIA and a daily Church-going Catholic with crucifixes and crosses all over his house--to give him some top sevret photoes from our spy satellites and get PPII's help in getting rid of Communism--which they did.

Unfortunatly they did it part by helping right-wing fascists all over Latin America reach power, with Casey and his CIA helping assasinate various government leaders in those countries and later on the bad boys killing maybe 2 million Latin Americans and torturing many more.

Some of those killed and tortured were nuns and priests who were fighting the good fight against the fascists--and were not communists at all--althpough PPII called them 'Marxist Theologians'.

The good PPII also got rid of thousands of other Catholic clergy and replaced them with right-wing conservatives, and has also appointed an unprecedented number of new Cardinals (an AP story)--most all of them also right-wing conservatives.

The prevailing view is that he is under th spell of Cardinal Ratzinger in Rome--formerly of Austria and once a member of the Nazi Youth League.

The Pope was booed by these Latin American Countries on his last trip there--as most of the countries have gotten rid of the fascists and also have various kinds of truth commissions investigating how all these murders took place and also examining the U.S. role in them--along with the Vaticans.

You also might want to check into a Certain Cardinal Stepinac and his role in killing 450,000 Orthodox Catholics (with help from the good Franscican Order) in what is now Serbia during WWII--and especially look into the role of Pope Pius XII in helping that tinderbox in the balkans start both WWI and II--it's in Hitler's Pope--a great book.

As my dad used to say---'Vot you tink of dose apples?"

Oh--also check into what the Polish Primate had to say about Jews BEFORE the invasion of Poland (The Catholic chiurch controlled Poland for two centuries) and also what laws Poland passed taking away Jewish rights and property--long before WWII started---shades of what the Nazis did in Germany to them...

Then there is that phony Lourdes Miracle--you know the sun spinning in the sky--and the three secrets of the little shepard boys..

Think back to when you stopped believing in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy--and then ask yourself why we believe in Transubstantiation or the Virgin Birth or the need to have al those miracles for a Saint..etc. , etc.

Behind all of that doctrine lies--well, lies (Papal Sin Wills calls it)--and if you lift the cover just a teenie bit further, you often find money and the power to control thinking and converts...Yuk.

Lastly, believe ot or not there were in fact 19 different 'Christs' and there are quite a few folks who believe that Jesus of the bible never existed at all, but was composite that was embellished by folks who had other agendas in mind--like rebelling against the hypocrits and ultra-orthodox doctrinaire beliefs of many in Judaism and also the brutal attempt by Rome then to put down rebellious Jews, who didnt like being slaves much--which they never were fully able to do.

But have a Merry Xmas anyway--or a Happy Hannuka, and buy lots to spur the economy for Bush...

[Ammie]

I have always thought that organized religion of any form is cultish.
*No offense intended*

[Polly Nomial]

Guerilla, Andy and Ammie,
Thanks for the support. My question was of course retorical. :smile:

I too, mean no offence, but somehow it doesn't seem fair. Christians (and other religions too) never need to apologize for their beliefs. They freely quote the bible, offer their prayers and display the symbols of their faith. While I, on the other hand, feel like I am putting myself at risk for even suggesting that I might believe otherwise.

[Andy Lang]

Polly--I think it was a wise man who once said that America will finally at long last be truly free when a professed atheist--or a nontheist as the more politically correct term goes--can be elected President.

I think that wise guy might have been the Ruler, such as he is--of the Universe, AndyBert the Magnificent.

He really doesnt spend much time ruling, he says, but he did set up the rules in the beginning, and now simply watches and waits to see what happens to these fascinating human beings, all the while disclaiming any responsibility whatsoever for their behavior, free will being what it is, and evolution being what it is, and nature-nuture, the Yin and the Yang of the Universe, the Cosmic Spring, being what it does.

He tells me he is fascinated to see if they will survive even a a tenth as long as the dinosaurs, far and away the most successful evolutionary creation on the Planet Earth. The dinosaurs mostly morphed into birds after that big asteroid hit, but mankind seems hell-bent on creating their very own asteroid--one which few creatures will survive. Some other planets met their fate that way too--the religious gene also having played a role in their demise, evolution seeming in some cases at least, to create the genetic material to get rid of species that cannot take care of the planet they live in.

Why is it, The Great One often laments, that man cannot see that the Paradise of Earth is the only one that they will ever see, and it is truly magnificent, if He does say so, Himself?

Osama and quite a few Al-Qaeda are about to find that out, he says, that is, if when a tree falls in the forest where no one hears it, anyone can realize anything.

[Polygamist]

Isn't it funny that those who defend their religions are called "apologists"? Why is that? What are they apologizing for? Shouldn't it be the people who are attacking the religion who should apologize? But then again, do they ever?

[Pseudolus]

I think that the "explaination, defense" meaning of "apology" predates the "express sorrow and regret" meaning. A similar case is "propaganda", which I think originally meant merely "that which is propogated".

[Polly Nomial]

Andy, I sorta like your view of the Great One. :smile:

I don't want to open this thread up into a place to bash religions, but I'd like to quote my father who taught me, "Man created God in his own image."

[The Drunken Actuary]

Back to L Ron... Did anyone read the decalogy that was published after 'he departed his body'? I read it as a teenager as they came out and found them to be quite enjoyable. I had never heard of sceintology and didn't know about his hatred of psychology. I can see now a lot of his views in this work of satire. Anyway, doesn't anyonw read the greats anymore : Asimov, Clarke, and Heinlein who was a bit of a perv in his later novels.

[Holton]

Polly,

Sorry to hear your/your father's thought on a supreme being. So I guess you are one of those who believe you will one day become worm food and that's the end. I like to think there is more purpose to this life than that.

[Andy Lang]

Polly:

[I don't want to open this thread up into a place to bash religions, ..]

Why not?

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[The Drunken Actuary]

Holton,
what purpose would that be? And while your at it, what is the answer to my questions on the other thread?