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dukeskywalker
06-12-2007, 01:02 PM
Most of my background is in health pricing, but I have done some financial reporting work as well as some ALM work. I was wondering if someone can guide me a bit in choosing between "ERM" and "Group and Health".

I know that exam is far away, but I want to get started soon.

Thanks!
PAK
06-12-2007, 02:01 PM
Most of my background is in health pricing, but I have done some financial reporting work as well as some ALM work. I was wondering if someone can guide me a bit in choosing between "ERM" and "Group and Health".

I know that exam is far away, but I want to get started soon.

Thanks!

The followings are the reasons that you should take ERM instead of Group Health:

1. If you enjoy reading more than 3000 pages (including study guide), take ERM.
2. If you like to take an exam mostly not related to ERM, take ERM.
3. If you want to take an exam testing your footnote and appendix knowledge, take ERM.
4. If you enjoy competing with small number of people, take ERM.
5. If you like to memorize endless number of formulas (Investment Guarantee, Risk Management, Reinsurance textbook....), take ERM
:danim:
PhillyP
06-12-2007, 02:33 PM
If you take the ERM track you get the CERA (Chartered Enterprise Risk Analyst) designation in addition to your ASA or FSA.
wat?
06-12-2007, 02:57 PM
If you take the ERM track you get the CERA (Chartered Enterprise Risk Analyst) designation in addition to your ASA or FSA.

That's half-true.

Since this is in the CSP forum, this is the exam you'll have to take in order to qualify for the CERA designation. If you take the fall ERM exam, that will not count towards the CERA.
dukeskywalker
06-12-2007, 03:49 PM
The followings are the reasons that you should take ERM instead of Group Health:

1. If you enjoy reading more than 3000 pages (including study guide), take ERM.
2. If you like to take an exam mostly not related to ERM, take ERM.
3. If you want to take an exam testing your footnote and appendix knowledge, take ERM.
4. If you enjoy competing with small number of people, take ERM.
5. If you like to memorize endless number of formulas (Investment Guarantee, Risk Management, Reinsurance textbook....), take ERM
:danim:


SO are you saying that ERM CSP Exam doesn't really cover ERM stuff... HUH, I thought that never happened in Actuarial Exams :)

From Educational Objectives, exam material looked very interesting.

Thanks for your input.
_BullDog_
06-12-2007, 04:54 PM
SO are you saying that ERM CSP Exam doesn't really cover ERM stuff... HUH, I thought that never happened in Actuarial Exams :)

From Educational Objectives, exam material looked very interesting.

Thanks for your input.

To clarify - the material covered ERM pretty good (I thought). The exam, not so much.
dukeskywalker
06-13-2007, 10:06 AM
Bulldog: Which study guide did you use? Or you created your own outline? How long did it take to read through the material? And how many hours did you put in for the exam?

Thanks and good luck.
yanz
06-13-2007, 02:51 PM
The followings are the reasons that you should take ERM instead of Group Health:

1. If you enjoy reading more than 3000 pages (including study guide), take ERM.
2. If you like to take an exam mostly not related to ERM, take ERM.
3. If you want to take an exam testing your footnote and appendix knowledge, take ERM.
4. If you enjoy competing with small number of people, take ERM.
5. If you like to memorize endless number of formulas (Investment Guarantee, Risk Management, Reinsurance textbook....), take ERM
:danim:

But, if you enjoy being tested on material added to the syllabus 4 days before the exam, then you should take the Health exam :tup:
yanz
06-13-2007, 03:05 PM
If you take the ERM track you get the CERA (Chartered Enterprise Risk Analyst) designation in addition to your ASA or FSA.

Never heard of CERA...links?
wat?
06-13-2007, 03:07 PM
Never heard of CERA...links?

http://www.soa.org/files/pdf/edu-red-cera-flyer.pdf
LastAttempt
06-13-2007, 03:16 PM
So is CERA an SOA designation? As in, is it recognized by other industries?

People outside of the actuarial industry barely knows what FSA and FCAS mean....
yanz
06-13-2007, 03:18 PM
I still don't get it. Is it somethine we'd have to apply for separately once we meet all the requirements and then they send us a little certificate or something?
wat?
06-13-2007, 03:30 PM
So is CERA an SOA designation? As in, is it recognized by other industries?

People outside of the actuarial industry barely knows what FSA and FCAS mean....

Yes, it's an SOA designation. Bruce has posted once or twice about the SOA discussing with other risk management societies about the recognition of the CERA designation. At the very least, it's not like the SOA just made up their own designation for risk management and went, "See, we have one too."
wat?
06-13-2007, 03:31 PM
I still don't get it. Is it somethine we'd have to apply for separately once we meet all the requirements and then they send us a little certificate or something?

That remains to be seen. There are 37 or so individuals that qualify for the CERA designation with their current exam progress - Bruce mentioned that those individuals have been contacted (or will be contacted in the near future) that they will have the designation.

I think this list consists of the individuals that got their FSA in the ERM track.
_BullDog_
06-13-2007, 03:47 PM
Bulldog: Which study guide did you use? Or you created your own outline? How long did it take to read through the material? And how many hours did you put in for the exam?

Thanks and good luck.

Actex is unfortunately the only option for manuals.

I spent about 450 hours studying.
_BullDog_
06-13-2007, 03:48 PM
Yes, it's an SOA designation. Bruce has posted once or twice about the SOA discussing with other risk management societies about the recognition of the CERA designation. At the very least, it's not like the SOA just made up their own designation for risk management and went, "See, we have one too."

Somehow i think it is closer to "See, we have one too." Hopefully I am wrong and the marketing campaign will be more effective than previous marketing campaigns by the SOA.
dukeskywalker
06-13-2007, 04:31 PM
Actex is unfortunately the only option for manuals.

I spent about 450 hours studying.

How do you feel about the exam, after all those hours?
_BullDog_
06-13-2007, 04:37 PM
How do you feel about the exam, after all those hours?

40/60 (pass/fail)
dukeskywalker
06-18-2007, 01:00 PM
Bulldog:

Sent you a PM.
PAK
06-18-2007, 02:10 PM
40/60 (pass/fail)

To be frank, I think I only get 25/75 (pass/fail) chance.........sigh.....
yanz
06-19-2007, 09:50 AM
I hope they'll adjust the passmark accordingly...It's really not our fault that they didn't leave us enough time to study for this beast, so how can they apply the same standard for passing as with other exams?
PAK
06-19-2007, 02:15 PM
I hope they'll adjust the passmark accordingly...It's really not our fault that they didn't leave us enough time to study for this beast, so how can they apply the same standard for passing as with other exams?

That is the key word. From the past exam passing rate stand point, I don't see this hope happen..........
yanz
06-20-2007, 10:44 AM
That is the key word. From the past exam passing rate stand point, I don't see this hope happen..........

I'm not sure what you mean by this.
For exams 8F and 8E, the pass %s have been:
2006 - 51.8 and 52.5
2005 - 61 and 61.3
2004 - 50 and 52.4

Almost all of these were a few % points higher than the other 8s and are all over 50%. In fact, the lowest passing % I see for a C8 in the last 3 yrs is 44.3% (if I go farther back before they had as many C8 options, it's 41.8%). I haven't calculated the average pass %, but eyeballing it gives about 50% (and it seems to be trending upwards slightly).

Just realistically speaking, if the pass mark ends up 60% or higher, I doubt that more than 1/3 of the candidates would pass, and I doubt the SOA wants that...

But again, this is only my speculation - who knows what'll really happen. I'm not trying to get people's hopes up. I'm just trying to understand why you think the odds are against us.
campbell
06-20-2007, 11:27 AM
They've got more "wiggle room" on the written exams, in terms of being able to give partial credit points. I know we've had threads on the "passmark" for written exams and we just don't know enough.

I decided to make a little spreadsheet with all the old 8s pass rates, and the pass rates range from 36.9 to 61.3, the effective pass rates range from 41.8 to 61.3 (the extreme points come from 8E/F, which may be related to so few people taking it). So, going out on a limb, I'm guessing 40-60% of people will pass each of the CSPs.

I bet they're going to take into account the syllabus and study note release issues, just as they take into account the difficulty of the exam...especially if somebody contacted the ombudsman within a couple weeks of the exam. But even so, everyone will be affected the same way.
qqpp
07-20-2007, 10:47 PM
The interesting part about CERA on the SOA flyer is that it mentions "CERA is Associate of SOA and enjoys the right, privillage, ....."

So, there is now an "alternative" way of getting an ASA destination instead of the P, FM, MLC, MFE, C, VEE, FAPs route? Not that the alternate method is any easier...
IT Refugee
07-21-2007, 07:33 AM
The interesting part about CERA on the SOA flyer is that it mentions "CERA is Associate of SOA and enjoys the right, privillage, ....."

So, there is now an "alternative" way of getting an ASA destination instead of the P, FM, MLC, MFE, C, VEE, FAPs route? Not that the alternate method is any easier...

I hadn't really thought about this. I just passed AFE and still need the Final Assessment to get my ASA, but I could also do the Financial Reporting Module to get my CERA and become an associate.

This has probably been addressed before, but does anyone know whether the SOA intends for people to keep the CERA designation on their business card after getting an FSA?