Vick Indicted

[MooBeay]

Anyone have any idea what Warrick Dunn's career winning percentage is? I believe it may be better than Barry Sanders. The guy is simply a winner. Just like Kordell Stewart. And Kyle Orton.

What is your point?

[E. Blackadder]

PDF of complaint, filed from prison (http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/riches_jonathan_file.pdf)
It seems to ask for 63,000,000,000.00 billion dollars. I'd tell you who the complaintant is, but he copyrighted his name. It's unclear how long Mr. Vick would have to play football to pay off the amount asked, and I'm not up to doing the Markov Chain analysis.

[Not Mike]

What is your point?

Football is a team game, QB win/loss records are completely useless when measuring quarterbacking skills.

[MooBeay]

Football is a team game, QB win/loss records are completely useless when measuring quarterbacking skills.

What is the objective of a football game? To win.

Either way Dunn to Sanders was a silly comparison when discussing potential as Dunn is in the top 25 leading rushers all time and past the "he is all potential" debate. Which is what we are discussing. So when talking about whether a QB is all potential, its relevant that yes after 6 years he has a winning record as a starter.

[douglan]

Saw a report that the feds plea agreement would probably require Vick to serve at least a year in jail (subject to final sentencing by the judge).

[MountainHawk]

Saw a report that the feds plea agreement would probably require Vick to serve at least a year in jail (subject to final sentencing by the judge).
Can a judge accept a guilty plea, and that sentence the person to more than the agreed to term?

[douglan]

Can a judge accept a guilty plea, and that sentence the person to more than the agreed to term?

yup. usually all the fed prosecutors can do is recommend a sentence -- the judge could decide to modify it (unless otherwise restricted under sentencing laws).

ETA: Here is the article link I noted earlier: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20253462/

[win diesel]

Can a judge accept a guilty plea, and that sentence the person to more than the agreed to term?

This would be a very nice juke move. Hopefully the judge picks up speed around the corner and takes it into the endzone.

[LifeAct]

Is he the only defendent who has yet to plea bargain? If so, I would imagine that he is guaranteed jail time. I don't see why they would accept plea bargains from all defendents, and nobody serve jail time.

perhaps douglan knows more about pleas bargains though.

[_BullDog_]

So, he has gone from "I will prove my innocents" to probably pleading guilty in a matter of weeks.... and people wonder why we don't believe it when the charge profess there innocents.

[_BullDog_]

Is he the only defendent who has yet to plea bargain? If so, I would imagine that he is guaranteed jail time. I don't see why they would accept plea bargains from all defendents, and nobody serve jail time.

perhaps douglan knows more about pleas bargains though.

To save time and money.

[LifeAct]

To save time and money.

I know that it is to save money and time, but I would imagine that in a high profile case like this they would want somebody to serve jail time.

[douglan]

Is he the only defendent who has yet to plea bargain? If so, I would imagine that he is guaranteed jail time. I don't see why they would accept plea bargains from all defendents, and nobody serve jail time.

perhaps douglan knows more about pleas bargains though.

that's the way I understand where Vick is. the last defendent in a conspiracy charge almost always receives the worst plea deal. in this case, i think the federal sentencing guidelines would generally require 12 to 18 months in jail. the plea deal will probably require 12 months, but the judge could adjust it.

[win diesel]

that's the way I understand where Vick is. the last defendent in a conspiracy charge almost always receives the worst plea deal. in this case, i think the federal sentencing guidelines would generally require 12 to 18 months in jail. the plea deal will probably require 12 months, but the judge could adjust it.

High stakes musical chairs.

[BallaActuary]

My comment was on PR issues, not whether Vick could play another position.

There was zero seriousness in my post.

[BallaActuary]

So, he has gone from "I will prove my innocents" to probably pleading guilty in a matter of weeks.... and people wonder why we don't believe it when the charge profess there innocents.

Doesn't he have to plead guilty by tomorrow or he will have to face a jury? What is the significance of tomorrow everyone is talking about?

[uchuskies51587]

Doesn't he have to plead guilty by tomorrow or he will have to face a jury? What is the significance of tomorrow everyone is talking about?

He is supposed to be charged with racketeering too, I believe. So if he takes a deal before that happens, he wouldn't have to deal with that charge?Tomorrow is also the date of the plea hearings for his co-defendents.

I also read somewhere that in the court that this case is currently in, those who are convicted of racketeering charges tend to get very stiff sentences. So if he can get a deal done by tomorrow he probably only faces a year or so in jail rather than a much longer stay in prison.

[douglan]

Doesn't he have to plead guilty by tomorrow or he will have to face a jury? What is the significance of tomorrow everyone is talking about?

The federal grand jury in Richmond could bring a superseding indictment as early as next week. If he pleads guilty now, he avoids any additional charges (and additional jail time potentially) the feds may have now that hhis 3 co-defendents have flipped.

[jets fan]

So if he can get a deal done by tomorrow he probably only faces a year or so in jail rather than a much longer stay in prison.

And on the NFL side of things, Vick could face a lifetime ban for involvement in gambling. The NFL's personal conduct policy specifically states that this is possible.

Any outcome that ties the 27-year-old Vick to betting on the dogfights could trigger a lifetime ban from the NFL under the league's personal conduct policy. NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has barred Vick from the Falcons' training camp but has withheld further action while the NFL conducts its own investigation.

Also, the NY Times is reporting that Vick has until 9am today to cut the deal.

The New York Times is reporting Vick must accept the arrangement by 9 a.m. That's when one of his co-defendants will enter a guilty plea in federal court as part of his own plea deal. A second co-defendant's hearing is set for 15 minutes later.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/13913495/detail.html

[MountainHawk]

He has to accept doesn't he? With everyone flipping on him, he's got to be up shit creek without a paddle. If this goes to trial, his NFL career is done.

[jets fan]

With everyone flipping on him, he's got to be up shit creek without a paddle.

It certainly seems that way!

If this goes to trial, his NFL career is done.

His NFL career might be done if he plea bargains - gambling can equal a lifetime ban.

[Westley]

I would wager almost any amount of money that his NFL career is done. If it was Peyton or LT, there would be slim odds of making a return after. Vick isn't well-liked or talented enough to come back, he just needs to focus on keeping his cash that he already has and getting as little jail time as possible.

[Westley]

It's amazing how quickly this whole thing collapsed on him.

[hardinda]

I'd say the NFL gives him a 3-5 year suspension, which will pretty much end his career ... i doubt they give him a lifetime ban though.

[Westley]

I'd say the NFL gives him a 3-5 year suspension, which will pretty much end his career ... i doubt they give him a lifetime ban though.
A year in jail followed by 3 years suspension = who wants to start over with a 31-year-old mediocre-to-good quarterback who's known to have problems and by the way spends a lot of time running and getting hit (and did I mention he's 31)?

Sounds career-ending to me.

[douglan]

I think Goodell's punishment will be Vick's prison sentence + 1 year. But it won't be an automatic reinstatement -- he'll have to apply. Not to mention that team owners will shy away from signing him -- who wants PETA protesters at every game?

[MountainHawk]

I think Goodell's punishment will be Vick's prison sentence + 1 year. But it won't be an automatic reinstatement -- he'll have to apply. Not to mention that team owners will shy away from signing him -- who wants PETA protesters at every game?
The NFL will find a way to make money off the PETA protestors. ;-)

[rawl316]

as I said earlier, no team will sign him to the PR backlash. fans will be unhappy and PETA will constantly protest. He'd be worse of a distraction than anyone in sports history.

[hardinda]

PETA protestors are already at every pigskin game :tup:

[jets fan]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/08/17/vick/index.html

Not that there was much doubt, but it's now official - the 2 other co-defendants have pleaded guilty.

[MountainHawk]

Has the NFL suspended the sale of Vick jerseys?

[LifeAct]

Has the NFL suspended the sale of Vick jerseys?


What about Ron Mexico jerseys?

[Westley]

Has the NFL suspended the sale of Vick jerseys?
The story I read said that Reebok suspended the sales.

[quentin cassidy]

if vick had accepted the plea before the 9am deadline, don't you think we'd have found out by now? is he really going to risk spending 10+ years behind bars? wow.

[Patience]

if vick had accepted the plea before the 9am deadline, don't you think we'd have found out by now? is he really going to risk spending 10+ years behind bars? wow.

If he hadn't I would assume we would have heard that as well, so I take the timing to mean little

[douglan]

My gut feeling is that Vick -- and at least 1 of his lawyers -- wants to roll the dice and take their chances with a trial. I think that's a big risk, given that the feds have 7 witnesses lined up against Vick and a superceding indictment coming down the pipeline. Also, I think Vick and his lawyers want some type of assurance from the NFL as to how any plea deal will coordinate with the league's player conduct policy. I've seen reports that Goodell and the rest of the league's office is mum so far.

Regadless, I'm surprised that we have not heard something either way so far today.

[Westley]

I don't think it's out of the question that Vick might actually be on the run. Unlikely, but also unlikely that we wouldn't have heard anything by now, either a plea or grandstanding from his lawyers. He didn't have to give up the "Ron Mexico" passport, just the "Michael Vick" one.

[Patience]

If Michael Vick believes himself to be guilty I can not believe he would risk a trial with everyone else flipping on him.

If he believes himself to not be guilty, than I can see him fighting it.

Unless, he believes a conviction by trial or plea bargin means an end to football, then he may roll the dice feeling the positive of a win is all that matters and a loss is a loss despite the size of the penalty

[LifeAct]

My gut feeling is that Vick -- and at least 1 of his lawyers -- wants to roll the dice and take their chances with a trial. I think that's a big risk, given that the feds have 7 witnesses lined up against Vick and a superceding indictment coming down the pipeline. Also, I think Vick and his lawyers want some type of assurance from the NFL as to how any plea deal will coordinate with the league's player conduct policy. I've seen reports that Goodell and the rest of the league's office is mum so far.

Regadless, I'm surprised that we have not heard something either way so far today.

I've heard that Vick's lawyers want any NFL suspension to be concurrent with any jail time that Vick may face. However, the NFL has refused to discuss anything until the legal part is over.


It is kind of ironic, that everybody always wants the professional leagues to hold off judgement until after the courts do. But in this case Vick wants the NFL to assume he is guilty and give him his sentence now so that he can keep it in consideration while making a plea deal.

[BallaActuary]

My gut feeling is that Vick -- and at least 1 of his lawyers -- wants to roll the dice and take their chances with a trial. I think that's a big risk, given that the feds have 7 witnesses lined up against Vick and a superceding indictment coming down the pipeline. Also, I think Vick and his lawyers want some type of assurance from the NFL as to how any plea deal will coordinate with the league's player conduct policy. I've seen reports that Goodell and the rest of the league's office is mum so far.

Regadless, I'm surprised that we have not heard something either way so far today.

You should call up Vick and tell him you'll represent him for half of what he's paying his other lawyers.
I agree that facing the "Rocket Docket" (95% conviction rate from the Feds) is a stupid move. Vick has enough money where he doesn't need to play football nor work ever again, so if he only spends one year in jail, it seems like a no-brainer (we are talking about Vick though) to me on what he should do.

[MountainHawk]

If he gets convicted, especially if the RICO thing gets involved, who knows how much money he'll have left. The feds are good at confisicating the wealth of criminals ... they may be able to link a number of accounts to the dogfighting ring, and seize them all.

[Westley]

Vick has enough money where he doesn't need to play football nor work ever again, so if he only spends one year in jail, it seems like a no-brainer (we are talking about Vick though) to me on what he should do.
That's not very relevant to a guy who, just a few months ago, had fame, fortune, popularity, future riches, endorsements, adoring public, etc, etc, etc. It's hard to come down from such a frame of reference and choose between losing a lot and losing everything.

[Patience]

You should call up Vick and tell him you'll represent him for half of what he's paying his other lawyers.
I agree that facing the "Rocket Docket" (95% conviction rate from the Feds) is a stupid move. Vick has made enough money where he doesn't need to play football nor work ever again, so if he only spends one year in jail, it seems like a no-brainer (we are talking about Vick though) to me on what he should do.

IFYP

no idea how much he actually has. The guys with entourages, who constantly take care of friends can blow through more money than you can imagine. Plus legal fees, plus I wouldn't be surprised if he has huge gambling losses.

plus, regardless of the NFL decision on the suspension for the case, if Vick has been tied to gambling it could be even worse

[BallaActuary]

If he gets convicted, especially if the RICO thing gets involved, who knows how much money he'll have left. The feds are good at confisicating the wealth of criminals ... they may be able to link a number of accounts to the dogfighting ring, and seize them all.

Good point. Does there have to be evidence of the specific amounts Vick won on dogfighting/illegal activities? As much as I would love to see it, it seems unreasonable to confiscate $50 million from Vick.

[MountainHawk]

Good point. Does there have to be evidence of the specific amounts Vick won on dogfighting/illegal activities? As much as I would love to see it, it seems unreasonable to confiscate $50 million from Vick.
If there is activity through a specific account, I tihnk the feds get to seize the whole account. "Property used in a commission of a felony" is seizable. I'm sure douglan will let me know if I'm wrong.

[JustASix]

Good point. Does there have to be evidence of the specific amounts Vick won on dogfighting/illegal activities? As much as I would love to see it, it seems unreasonable to confiscate $50 million from Vick.
The Falcons won't find it unreasonable. They will be going after $20M+ in bonus money.

[Houdini]

as I said earlier, no team will sign him to the PR backlash. fans will be unhappy and PETA will constantly protest. He'd be worse of a distraction than anyone in sports history.
http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060801/060801_davis_hmed_4p.hmedium.jpg

[LifeAct]

If there is activity through a specific account, I tihnk the feds get to seize the whole account. "Property used in a commission of a felony" is seizable. I'm sure douglan will let me know if I'm wrong.

I'm going to buy illegal drugs with my credit card. Will they seize that account, or do they only go after positive balances?

[BallaActuary]

http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060801/060801_davis_hmed_4p.hmedium.jpg

:lol:

[MountainHawk]

I'm going to buy illegal drugs with my credit card. Will they seize that account, or do they only go after positive balances?
heh ... I think they'll kindly let you keep that one. ;-) Besides, credit cards aren't assets.

[douglan]

The Falcons won't find it unreasonable. They will be going after $20M+ in bonus money.

That is a tricky area. I think Vick's contract and the NFL bargaining contract might require the Falcons to keep Vick on their roster even if he goes to jail. That way, the Falcons can claim that Vick failed to perform his contract. IIRC, that is a necessary determination for going after a player's signing bonus. It becomes much harder if the team just cuts him.

[douglan]

latest article on CNN (still no update on Vick plea deal though) -- however, the other defendents are giving details that tie Vick to executions of dogs.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/08/17/vick/index.html

Also, amateur hour continues for one of Vick's colleagues ("Q" -- Quanis Phillips)

"Phillips was taken directly to jail after appearing in court Friday because he tested positive for drug use while out on bail."

:lol:

[LifeAct]

"Phillips was taken directly to jail after appearing in court Friday because he tested positive for drug use while out on bail."


:popcorn:

That guy is a genious.

[tommie frazier]

so one of the witnesses is also easily made to appear unreliable? 6 to go? run mike run!

[LifeAct]

so one of the witnesses is also easily made to appear unreliable? 6 to go? run mike run!


That was my second thought.

[JAS]

What are his chances of playing Europe or Canada? I could possibly* see him playing there for a few years and coming back to the NFL once this has blown over.

*possibly = long shot (not sure if this will blow over or not)

[Westley]

Last time I checked, I thought NFL Europe was owned by the NFL, i.e., no chance.

Canada? Legally, should be fine. I would think that they would be considerably LESS inclined to have such baggage.

[MountainHawk]

NFL Europe folded.

[Patience]

could play in Korea, he could convince them he was just preparing lunch

[DW Simpson]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071771/

[Patience]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071771/

you show taste by linking the proper version

[quentin cassidy]

maybe he'll play in mark cuban's pro football league.

[win diesel]

maybe he'll play in mark cuban's pro football league.

His name on the back of his jersey, "Dog Hate Me"

[Drewby]

His name on the back of his jersey, "Dog Hate Me"

:notworth:

[Drewby]

I believe that his actions violate the Personal Conduct Policy to the extent that he may receive a lifetime ban from the NFL...no "coming back" for Mr. Vick...

[rawl316]

I believe CFL had an a fit when Lawrence phillips and ricky williams played. The owners passed something about people with backgrounds not being allowed to play there.

[rawl316]

Will Vick play football again?
Somebody will take a chance, but it might be in the Arena Football League. The CFL might be a problem. Because CFL general managers protested about the Ricky Williams signing two years ago in Toronto, that league is reluctant to take on players who have been convicted. If convicted, it might be hard for Vick to secure a visa to play in Canada. Vick would be unstoppable in the Arena League. If he played in it for a season or two and on his best behavior, he could give fans a chance to forget even though they might not forgive.

[hardinda]

I was thinking he'd play QB for the prison team vs the guard team

[quentin cassidy]

I was thinking he'd play QB for the prison team vs the guard team

maybe they could train some of the pit bull police dogs to play on the defensive line

[tommie frazier]

if the league welcomed back others, why not vick? he violated the conduct rule for sure, and so suspension is merited. and perhaps he lied to the commish and league investigators when it first broke. so that's two strikes. I'd be surprised if he was forced to sit out more than one year after a prison sentence.

other than the PR, what could interest the league is his (allegedly) organizing and participating in a gmabling ring. that stuff makes leagues very nervous, and may actually be a bigger concern than the awful things he may have done to the dogs.

[douglan]

Vick's plea deal may be getting close: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/2007/08/17/2007-08-17_vick_close_to_plea_deal.html

[MountainHawk]

I almost don't want him to plead this one out. I have a feeling the details that would come out would be so horrifying, that he has no business not spending the next 5-10 years behind bars.

[jayhawk]

I don't see how the NFL (assuming he pleas or is found guilty) has any choice but a lifetime ban. No team would want to take the negative PR for signing him even if wasn't banned.

[ShebaPoe]

I don't see how the NFL (assuming he pleas or is found guilty) has any choice but a lifetime ban. No team would want to take the negative PR for signing him even if wasn't banned.

I agree with you. But playing the devil's advocate, Michael Vick is really, really good.

[GosuJohn]

I don't see how the NFL (assuming he pleas or is found guilty) has any choice but a lifetime ban. No team would want to take the negative PR for signing him even if wasn't banned.

Ray Lewis killed someone and is a posterboy for the NFL.

[Patience]

I don't see how the NFL (assuming he pleas or is found guilty) has any choice but a lifetime ban. No team would want to take the negative PR for signing him even if wasn't banned.

I don't see any connection between the league's ban length decision and an assumption of what the teams may or may not do after the suspension is over. The league shouldn't consider that at all

[LifeAct]

I agree with you. But playing the devil's advocate, Michael Vick is really, really good.

I would take out 1 or 2 of those 'really's

[hardinda]

Why, he seems to be really, really good at executing dogs

[LifeAct]

Why, he seems to be really, really good at executing dogs

well, executing dogs yes. Executing an NFL offense, not so much.

[hardinda]

See now you are getting all caught up in details.

[douglan]

I would take out 1 or 2 of those 'really's

:lolup:

[Westley]

I agree with you. But playing the devil's advocate, Michael Vick is really, really good.
You think he's good enough that you would want to start fresh with him at 31, knowing how often he gets hit (and has gotten hit)? He's a solid player, but if I'm starting with an old man (his body is somewhere between that of a 31-yo QB and a 31-yo RB), he's going to have to be one of the best 2 or 3 in the league at his position; Vick is not.

I suppose if he fit in my system and I was close to the Super Bowl and my #1 had a season-ending, some scenario like that, I could see it.

[Irish Blues]

Ray Lewis killed someone and is a posterboy for the NFL.
Ray Lewis plead guilty to obstruction of justice. I don't know that he's been the "poster boy for the NFL" since his arrest for that incident.

[ShebaPoe]

Ray Lewis killed someone and is a posterboy for the NFL.

Nah, he actually did something worse. He ruined Buckhead. ATL people know what I mean.

Rae Carruth had someone killed and got lots of prison.

[ShebaPoe]

You think he's good enough that you would want to start fresh with him at 31, knowing how often he gets hit (and has gotten hit)? He's a solid player, but if I'm starting with an old man (his body is somewhere between that of a 31-yo QB and a 31-yo RB), he's going to have to be one of the best 2 or 3 in the league at his position; Vick is not.

I suppose if he fit in my system and I was close to the Super Bowl and my #1 had a season-ending, some scenario like that, I could see it.

He's 27 now. So if he does a year...that's 28, 29....and he is one of the best athletes in the league, so there is no reason to think he can't get into top shape again.

Regardless of what happens, I don't think the NFL should ban him for life.

[Westley]

If he's back in a year, then maybe.... I don't think he will be back next year - I think they've got him bad enough, the plea on Friday likely fell through because prosecutors wanted more than a year; also, Vick's team wants to know what Goodell will do if he pleas, and Goodell won't say - likely becuase he is planning to clobber the guy, that's what happens when the league commissioner asks you point blank what your invovlement was and you lie, only to admit it a few weeks later. And, a great athlete can get his speed and strength back, but knees and hips just keep getting older.

I'm ok with a lifetime ban if he's heavily invovled in the gambling, as has been rumored. Not sure I think they SHOULD ban him at all for dogfighting, although I am quite certain they WILL ban him for some amount of time.

Also, am I the only one who thinks it's funny that it's called "bad newz kennels"? I mean, are you trying to get caught? If I had a place where I was staging dogfights, I think I would go more with "Cute little puppies" or "Friendly Doghouse" - I guess nobody has accused him of being a rocket scientist.

[General Apathy]

I am still trying to track down a bad newz kennels t-shirt. Seriously, somebody hook me up.

[Westley]

You might try looking on the internet:

http://www.bustedtees.com/shirt/badnewzkennels/male

Bonus: 10% of all money goes to ASPCA

[General Apathy]

That's not legit.

I want a real one smartarze.

[LifeAct]

Also, am I the only one who thinks it's funny that it's called "bad newz kennels"? I mean, are you trying to get caught? If I had a place where I was staging dogfights, I think I would go more with "Cute little puppies" or "Friendly Doghouse" - I guess nobody has accused him of being a rocket scientist.

No, I thought the same thing. Michael Vick is not very smart

[jets fan]

Can any of you envision a scenario in which Vick is completely innocent of every one of these charges - i.e. he had nothing to do with any of this and everyone is picking on him?

[Brutus Buckeye]

Can any of you envision a scenario in which Vick is completely innocent of every one of these charges - i.e. he had nothing to do with any of this and everyone is picking on him?
just as likely as Bonds didn't do steroids. odds are about the same in my mind.

[MountainHawk]

Can any of you envision a scenario in which Vick is completely innocent of every one of these charges - i.e. he had nothing to do with any of this and everyone is picking on him?
No, because Johnny Cochran is dead.

[Westley]

Can any of you envision a scenario in which Vick is completely innocent of every one of these charges - i.e. he had nothing to do with any of this and everyone is picking on him?
1 "nothing to do with"? no. He owned the property, that's a fact, so I don't think that's possible.
2 No knowledge of what was going on on his property? Possible. Odds are very,v ery long.

[LifeAct]

1 "nothing to do with"? no. He owned the property, that's a fact, so I don't think that's possible.
2 No knowledge of what was going on on his property? Possible. Odds are very,v ery long.

Is he the owner of 'bad newz kennels'? If so, there is another thing that he cannot get away from.

[douglan]

No, because Johnny Cochran is dead.

:lolup:

[douglan]

New offer to Vick with 18-36 months in jail:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20350573/

[Westley]

And they want to wait to hear from Goodell. Not sure why they would wait - or more specifically, not sure why he would say anything. What incentive does he have to commit himself to any course of action before he has all the info? It's not like there's any benefit whatsoever that I can think of for Goodell or the league to committing to a specific action or option or anything.

[Westley]

Also odd to me in the whole thing: Why didn't Vick just go to the other three guys and say "I'm going to plea first, and you're going to do the hard time, and you'll have a couple million in Switzerland waiting for you when you get out". The max penalty is five years, most people would do that for a couple million.

[LifeAct]

Also odd to me in the whole thing: Why didn't Vick just go to the other three guys and say "I'm going to plea first, and you're going to do the hard time, and you'll have a couple million in Switzerland waiting for you when you get out". The max penalty is five years, most people would do that for a couple million.

They ran a dogfighting ring under the legal name of 'bad newz kennels'. They are not smart people.

[douglan]

*BREAKING NEWS*

Vick accepts plea deal. Press conference later today:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20350573/

[douglan]

Conflicting reports on how much jail time the plea deal will recommend. 10-12 months in one report and 12-18 in another.

[3rookie]

Conflicting reports on how much jail time the plea deal will recommend. 10-12 months in one report and 12-18 in another.Would it be accurate to estimate actual time served as 1/2 of the sentence?

[MountainHawk]

Would it be accurate to estimate actual time served as 1/2 of the sentence?
I think federal laws require 90% of the sentence to be served.

[douglan]

Would it be accurate to estimate actual time served as 1/2 of the sentence?

good question. not sure though. the judge could require that vick serve every day with no reduction for good behavior. my guess is that the judge will approve 12 months and require vick to serve it all.

[Cohete009]

Its what happens when you live in the ATL.

GG Ron M.

[Westley]

Is it universally true that 12 months is the difference between going to the local Jail with Andy and Barney versus going to the state pen with hardened criminals? Pretty sure that's the case where I live, don't know if that's everywhere.

[douglan]

Is it universally true that 12 months is the difference between going to the local Jail with Andy and Barney versus going to the state pen with hardened criminals? Pretty sure that's the case where I live, don't know if that's everywhere.

dunno. I think he would go to a federal pen though. Not sure how they classify folks based on sentence length. I doubt he will go to the SuperMax facility in Colorado where they have the Unabomber, Eric Rudolph, the Al-Qaeda guys, etc. ;)

[Uncle Darryl]

The max penalty is five years, most people would do that for a couple million.You really think so? I wouldn't. It would have to be a tonne of money, and to be honest I'm not sure I'd do it for any amount of money. I'm too pretty for jail. Don't imagine I'd fair very well. If I could have my safety guaranteed 5 years would require, I don't know, probably $50mm or more.

I'd probably do a year, safety guaranteed, for a couple million though. Easier to bounce back from a year than five. Five is a pretty good chunk of your life.

[Uncle Darryl]

Not to pat myself on the back but I probably have more going for me than the hunchmen of bad newz kennelz, and fewer friends in the pen though so maybe they'd do 5 yrs for a couple million.

[tommie frazier]

Is it universally true that 12 months is the difference between going to the local Jail with Andy and Barney versus going to the state pen with hardened criminals? Pretty sure that's the case where I live, don't know if that's everywhere.


We get caught killing dogs, we're not going to white collar resort prison. No, no, no. We're going to...federal pound-me-in-the-*** prison!

federal prison can't be a god time, can it?

[Westley]

I'm thinking that these are big guys, if they go in with some extra money provided by MV, they would be alright. Sort of like Goodfellas - the guy comes back from the store and they ask hiw whether he got parm or asiago for the pasta.

[LifeAct]

They could spend the 5 years studying for actuarial exams. come out with an FSA. I'm sure that somebody would hire them

[BallaActuary]

Wow. Did anyone hear Roy Jones Jr.'s comments on the Vick case?

Among other things, Vick and Jesus are similar because Jesus saved people and Vick saved the Falcons. Pit bulls were born with a lock jaw for one reason only... that they are the most powerful "athletes" of the last century.

I hope Portis and Jones aren't surprised when the Feds knock on their door to investigate their involvement in dog fighting.

[LifeAct]

Vick saved the Falcons.

It's a good thing that Atlanta made that trade. Imagine how bad they would be if they had LT instead of Vick

[BallaActuary]

Vick is trying to save his NFL career.
He's going to plead guilty to the interstate offense, but plead not guilty to killing dogs and gambling on the fights.
Somehow I don't think the Feds are going to be okay with that.

[mittman84]

Somehow I don't think the Feds are going to be okay with that.I sure hope not.

[MountainHawk]

Vick is trying to save his NFL career.
He's going to plead guilty to the interstate offense, but plead not guilty to killing dogs and gambling on the fights.
Somehow I don't think the Feds are going to be okay with that.
Not a chance. If he tries that, the feds will go to trial. All three other witness pleaded to killing dogs and gambling with Michael, why does he think the LAST guy is going to get to ignore that.

[jets fan]

Yeah, I listened to ESPN's legal consultant (Lester Munson) talk about this and he led me to believe that this can't be what the Feds agreed to. He said that if Vick isn't going to say exactly what the Feds want him to say on Monday, then they're going to file a superseding indictment with more charges and go full speed towards the November trial. They used the words "wishful thinking" to describe Vick's attorneys if this is what they're trying to do.

[Chubbs_23]

This is going to be the greatest trial ever.

[MountainHawk]

This is going to be the greatest trial ever.
I dunno, the Scopes monkey trial will be hard to top.

[Patience]

ESPN radio seemed to indicate that the plea w/o killing dogs & gambling would be sufficient. He will do time and there won't be the exposure of the trial in which anything can happen.

If there is a trial it will be 1/4 of OJ. I can't see it being that big

[douglan]

Whatever plea he enters has to be acceptable to the prosecutors and the judge. I can't believe he gets off with just a guilty plea for the interstate commerce violation. But what do I know? IANARL :shrug:

[foghorn]

I sure hope not.

Unless, of course, those are the crimes he is actually guilty of, right?

[mittman84]

Unless, of course, those are the crimes he is actually guilty of, right?I ment I sure hope they are not ok with him not pleading to everything.

[Patience]

If it was his operation (he owned it at least) and admits he saw dogs being executed, but did not participate. If he did nothing to stop it, is that any better? Either legally or morally?

[douglan]

If it was his operation (he owned it at least) and admits he saw dogs being executed, but did not participate. If he did nothing to stop it, is that any better? Either legally or morally?

No. I hope the judge, the state prosecutors, and the NFL all see it that way too.

[JAS]

If it was his operation (he owned it at least) and admits he saw dogs being executed, but did not participate. If he did nothing to stop it, is that any better? Either legally or morally?

I'd say it's better - but not much.

[foghorn]

If it was his operation (he owned it at least) and admits he saw dogs being executed, but did not participate. If he did nothing to stop it, is that any better? Either legally or morally?

IMO, Morally no, legally yes.

[douglan]

Here is Vick's plea / statement of facts:

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/070824_Vick_Statement_Of_Facts.pdf

His strategy seems to have been two-fold: First, have his lawyers issue a statement last night that Vick will not admit to gambling and killing dogs. And second, to plead guilty today (not sure why it was today instead of Monday, as originally scheduled) with carefully crafted language that can be spun to support that. In that regard, two things jumped out at me in his plea:

(1) Vick agrees that he funded the dogfighting ring and provided the money for gambling. However, he did not receive any of the purses when his dogs won. It also says that he also did not make any side bets. IMO, that is really splitting hairs over the gambling issue. Will the public and the NFL believe that he did not gamble? I think it's clear that he gambled and is afraid to admit it directly. Gambling is more dangerous to his NFL career than killing dogs (kinda sad in a way).

(2) Vick also states that the "collective efforts" of him and his co-conspirators led to the deaths of some dogs. Again, will the public and the NFL believe that he did not kill the dogs? It sounds to me that he killed dogs.

[douglan]

NFL Moves Fast, Suspends Vick Indefinitely

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d801c32be&template=with-video&confirm=true

[Da Bears!]

Any guesses on the when the next day will come that the media doesn't have to give us a "Vick Update"?

I'm honestly quite sick of hearing about this story.

[Doctor Infinity]

NFL suspends 'reprehensible' Vick indefinitely
League makes move hours after quarterback strikes plea deal
The Associated Press
Updated: 3:42 p.m. MT Aug 24, 2007

The NFL indefinitely suspended Michael Vick without pay Friday just hours after he acknowledged in court papers that he did, indeed, bankroll gambling on dogfighting and helped kill some dogs not worthy of the pit.

Vick, however, insisted he placed no bets of his own nor took any winnings.

In disciplining Vick, commissioner Roger Goodell said Vick’s admitted conduct was “not only illegal but also cruel and reprehensible” and regardless whether he personally placed bets, “your actions in funding the betting and your association with illegal gambling both violate the terms of your NFL player contract and expose you to corrupting influences in derogation of one of the most fundamental responsibilities of an NFL player.”

Goodell freed the Falcons to “assert any claims or remedies” to recover $22 million of Vick’s signing bonus from the 10-year, $130 million contract he signed in 2004.

The commissioner didn’t speak to Vick but based his decision on the court filings. NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said Goodell may meet with Vick in the future, and Goodell said he would review the suspension after all the legal proceedings.

“You have engaged in conduct detrimental to the welfare of the NFL and have violated the league’s personal conduct policy,” Goodell told Vick in a letter after meeting in New York with Falcons president and general manager Rich McKay.

Falcons owner Arthur Blank supported Goodell’s decision and said:

“We hope that Michael will use this time, not only to further address his legal matters, but to take positive steps to improve his personal life.”

Earlier Friday in Richmond, Va., a “summary of facts” signed by Vick was filed along with his written plea agreement on a federal dogfighting conspiracy charge. He will appear before U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson to formally plead guilty Monday and then await sentencing at a later date.

The court documents and a statement by Vick’s legal team seek to portray him as less involved in the dogfighting ring than three co-defendants who previously pleaded guilty and agreed to testify against the Atlanta Falcons quarterback.

“While Mr. Vick is not personally charged with or responsible for committing all of the acts alleged in the indictment, as with any conspiracy charge, he is taking full responsibility for his actions and the actions of the others involved,” the defense team said in a written statement after the plea agreement was filed.

“Mr. Vick apologizes for his poor judgment in associating himself with those involved in dog fighting and realizes he should never have been involved in this conduct,” the statement said.

Vick signed the plea agreement late Thursday.

“Most of the Bad Newz Kennels operation and gambling monies were provided by Vick,” the summary of facts said, echoing language in plea agreements by the three co-defendants.

The statement said that when the kennel’s dogs won, the gambling proceeds were generally shared by Vick’s three co-defendants — Tony Taylor, Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips.

“Vick did not gamble by placing side bets on any of the fights. Vick did not receive any of the proceeds of the purses that were won by Bad Newz Kennels,” the summary said.

According to the statement, Vick also was involved with the others in killing six to eight dogs that did not perform well in testing sessions last April. The dogs were executed by drowning or hanging.

“Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts” of Vick, Phillips and Peace, the statement said.

In the plea agreement, the government committed to recommending a sentence on the low end of the federal sentencing guideline range of a year to 18 months. However, the conspiracy charge is punishable by up to five years in prison, and the judge is not bound by any recommendation or by the guidelines.

Hudson has a reputation for imposing stiff sentences, according to lawyers who have appeared in his court. The judge will set a sentencing date at Monday’s hearing.

“Our position has been that we are going to try to help Judge Hudson understand all the facts and Michael’s role,” Vick’s defense attorney, Billy Martin, said in telephone interview. “Michael’s role was different than others associated with this incident.”

Martin said Vick will “speak to the public and explain his actions.” Though he declined to say when and where, the Tom Joyner Morning Show, a syndicated program based in Dallas, said it will have a live interview with Vick on Tuesday.

The U.S. attorney’s office, which has declined to comment on the case, said it would issue a statement after the hearing.

The case began in April when authorities conducting a drug investigation of Vick’s cousin raided a Surry County property owned by Vick and found dozens of dogs, some injured, and equipment commonly used in dogfighting.

A federal indictment issued in July charged Vick, Peace, Phillips and Taylor with an interstate dogfighting conspiracy. Vick initially denied any involvement, and all four men pleaded innocent.

Taylor was the first to change his plea to guilty, saying Vick financed the dogfighting ring’s gambling and operations. Peace and Phillips soon followed, alleging that Vick joined them in killing dogs that did not measure up in test fights.

The sickening details outlined in the indictment and other court papers prompted a public backlash against Vick, who had been one of the NFL’s most popular players.

Animal-rights groups mobilized against Vick — even protesting at NFL headquarters in New York — and sponsors dropped him.

“It is fitting that the NFL has suspended him,” said Wayne Pacelle, president and CEO of The Humane Society of the United States. “He’s now a role model for something terrible, and it’s not appropriate that he suit up in an NFL uniform.”


:link: (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20429109/)

:tup::toast::clap::guitarwo::rock1::smoke::band1:
:band2::wav:
:party::tooth::h5:

[E. Blackadder]

You only posted this drivel three times. Why not in every single thread in every forum?

[jets fan]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/29/vick.chewed.cards.ap/index.html

FYI, a Micheal Vick football card that was chewed on by a dog sold for $7,400 on eBay. But according to the article the proceeds from the sale were originally intended to go to an animal shelter.

Steffen gave Monte, her 6-year-old Weimaraner, and Roxie, her Great Dane puppy, every Vick card she owned to destroy. The cards, worth $1 to $10 each, were crumpled, crimped, chewed, torn and generally in a sorry state. Some even had corners missing.

"When I started this I only expected to get $100 for a local shelter," Steffen told The Associated Press on Wednesday. "But it's received so much attention. It's for such a good cause that jumps every boundary."

One other thing that I didn't know is:

The Humane Society of the United States has seen a large spike in donations since Vick was indicted on federal dogfighting charges last month, said Ann Chynoweth, director of the society's Animal Cruelty and Fighting Campaign

[Mick Fan]

Message 387 ... Not much longer before Vick goes to the Hall of Fame.

[Sotally Tober]

SLAM! See you in 23 months, a$$hole.

[douglan]

SLAM! See you in 23 months, a$$hole.

wow. have not seen the news accounts, but does he have to serve the entire amount?

[E. Blackadder]

CNN says 80% with good behavior. OTOH, CNN also says this is 20 months.

[Uncle Howie]

Ya I read with good behaviour, he gets out summer 2009, so presumably misses that season. If the NFL will have him, any chance he's playing in 2010?

[win diesel]

Sooks to be him. lol

I wouldn't know how to feel being locked up for almost two years. I want to blow my brains out if I get stuck in a one day insurance seminar.

[jets fan]

He still has to face the state's trial in April, right?

[Sotally Tober]

He still has to face the state's trial in April, right?
Unless his lawyers get the charges dropped. My understanding is, based on what I heard on the radio about 2-3 weeks ago...Vick's lawyers are arguing that he already pled guilty to those charges in the federal case, the state is claiming that the charges are actually different than those he pled to.

[_BullDog_]

Ya I read with good behaviour, he gets out summer 2009, so presumably misses that season. If the NFL will have him, any chance he's playing in 2010?
He will be picked up as a backup for a playoff team in '09. In '10 he will get a starting job with one of the bottom 5 teams.

[Jables]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/1214072vick1.html

Vick's letter to the judge prior to his sentencing (as well as a written endorsement from George Foreman :-?)

[quentin cassidy]

http://www.peta.org/feat/holidaysnowglobe/?celebMichael--Vick

[H.R. Paperstacks]

SURRY, Va. (AP) -- The Surry County Commonwealth's Attorney's office in Virginia says the trial of suspended NFL quarterback Michael Vick on state dogfighting charges has been continued.

Vick was scheduled to stand trial on April 2nd. An assistant to prosecutor Gerald Poindexter said today no new date has been set.

Officials already had continued the trials of co defendants Quanis Phillips and Purnell Peace, who are serving prison terms out of state.

Vick is serving a federal 23-month prison term in Leavenworth, Kansas. All three pleaded guilty to federal charges of conspiring to run an interstate dogfighting operation on land owned by Vick.

The continuances are based on the logistics of transporting the men back to Virginia, which is the responsibility of the local prosecutor's office.

The trials are to be rescheduled on March 25th.
the saga continues

[_BullDog_]

perhaps they will just be continued until they get out of jail.

[Not Mike]

He was not at the dogfighting party, he was golfing that day.

[H.R. Paperstacks]

Michael Vick may never play in the NFL again. But his football days are far from over.


Vick, a three-time Pro Bowl quarterback who is currently serving a 23-month prison sentence in Leavenworth, Kan. for financing a dogfighting ring, is playing football in prison, Falcons owner Arthur Blank told the New York Daily News.

"He is staying in shape," Blank told the Daily News. "Apparently, there was a prison football team and he played quarterback for both sides."

Blank and Vick have been communicating through letters, a process Vick initiated, Blank told the Daily News.

"He's written me a couple of times," Blank said. "I've written him back, he's stayed in touch."

The former Atlanta star is also washing pots and pans for 12 cents an hour, Blank told the newspaper — a far cry from the $130 million contract he used to have.
Vick is making a come-back

[jets fan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3335675

However, federal prison officials told the Journal-Constitution that Vick did not arrive at the Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary Camp in time to participate in the facility's football season.

When told of Blank's account of Vick's football activity at the prison, a spokesman for Leavenworth sounded "incredulous," according to the Journal-Constitution.

"I don't know what you're talking about," Kevin Johnson told the newspaper.

A spokesperson for the U.S. Bureau of Prisons told the Journal-Constitution, however, that Vick might be throwing a football in his free time.

"It's not unheard of for inmates to toss around a football," spokesperson Tracy Billingsley told the newspaper. "But there just are no games until the fall."

[General Apathy]

They should have a game between the prisoners and the security staff

[Not Mike]

LOL, Vick lying in his letters to Blank about playing football. That's top notch, he's very close to fully reformed.

[gosuruss]

Vick is on my federal correctional facility fantasy team.

[jets fan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3477573

Vick files for bankruptcy:

Imprisoned quarterback Michael Vick filed for bankruptcy protection while serving time for federal dogfighting charges, saying he owes between $10 million and $50 million to creditors

[gosuruss]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3477573

Vick files for bankruptcy:

this is pretty impressive.

[IMP]

The Micheal Vick Chew Toy! Dogs LOVE it!



http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/529893_3774498489936_1501021276_3220953_1317938732 _n.jpg


http://www.officialvickdogchewtoy.com/

[Funemployed]

SO 2009....

[IMP]

SO 2009....first i heard of it :shrug: