Second Wave

[glenn]

Just heard on the news:
9 or 10 people have been arrested at NY airport with knives and fake ID.
4 or 5 people have been arrested at an airport in Miami. Some were women with airline attendant's uniforms in their carryon luggage.

[Anonymous]

Their efforts are futile. Even if, IF, they got a jet and hijacked it, and somehow they subdued 100 passengers who know they're gonna smack it into something, even if all that happens ... as soon as it makes a strange move the airforce will shoot it out of the sky.

[glenn]

IMO, I agree that it's unlikely they would succeed using the same tactics as before.
What I think this illustrates is that multiple waves may have been planned. I am concerned that other but just as catastrophic tactics may be planned.

[Ranger]

You're right those tactics won't succeed again. In fact, I would argue that those tactics have already failed. When the passsengers on the flight over PA knew what was really happening, they attempted to regain control of the plane. That plane did not reach its target. Those terrorists FAILED in their mission.

While those tactics were fairly simple, and succeeded 3 times, they have already failed in a fourth attempt.

And now that Americans are aware of the suicidal nature of these attacks, I think it will be much harder for these cowards to again succeed.

God Bless those who stood up to those cowards in the air over PA. And God Bless America!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ranger on 2001-09-14 09:57 ]</font>

[Anonymous]

Sept. 14 — Saying airport security officers “overreacted,” senior law enforcement officials on Friday told NBC News that 10 men detained at two New York airports late Thursday were not would-be hijackers. Word of the detentions late Thursday led to reports that some of the men were carrying knives and that one had attempted to use a fake pilot’s license to gain entry to restricted areas.

[Anonymous]

End of story: they have all been released. Case of freak coincidence and mistaken identity.

Shame on ABC for scaring us last night ("tonight there are about 1100 airplanes in the american sky").

[Anonymous]

The one man carrying a fake pilot's liscense is still being held.

[glenn]

What about Miami - any word?

[Anonymous]

On 2001-09-14 09:25, glenn wrote:
IMO, I agree that it's unlikely they would succeed using the same tactics as before.
What I think this illustrates is that multiple waves may have been planned. I am concerned that other but just as catastrophic tactics may be planned.


"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
Montgomery Scott, Chief Engineer, USS Enterprise

Who would have thought that even one plane would ever crash into the WTC let alone one in each building. Figuratively extrapolating this to even one event, to me, would point to a biological threat. By the way are they checking the crash scene for any biological threats? If any of you reading are in that area, try calling your local red cross or news paper and asking. I pray that thoughts like this would be totally unnecessary. I can’t tell you how sad/angered/etc. I feel.

[Anonymous]

I heard on the radio something about some desease caried by birds that is contagious to humans was found to have increased in some areas several hundred precent in the past few weeks. However no humans have reportedly been infected.

[Han Solo]

If you are talking about West Nile virus, they have found some infected birds around my area (MD). The only people at risk are the elderly and those with compromised immune systems. I thought that I had heard of one case where an elderly man had died, but I could be wrong.

[Anonymous]

Han Solo,

I did not catch the name or where it was occuring.

[Anonymous]

FYI, (Sorry, not sure if I got all the paragraphs properly indented.)

Posted on: Monday, September 17, 2001
The September 11th attack

Bioterrorism could pose major threat

Associated Press

As devastating as Tuesday's terrorist attacks were, national security and public health experts know this much:

Biological weapons, such as these chemical/biological warfare aerial bombs, are capable of wiping out masses of people at once. Associated Press library photo
Something even worse could happen. There are weapons that are invisible and next-to-impossible to trace.

A whiff of nerve gas. A droplet of anthrax. A particle of smallpox.

Infectious or toxic weapons in skilled hands could cause considerably more casualties among ordinary Americans than the estimated 5,000 dead and missing at the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

The use of biological or chemical weapons — described by some as the poor man's atomic bomb — is a sensitive topic, especially now.
Experts caution that a bioterrorism attack here is not inevitable. Their opinions are the products of war games rather than an immediate and real threat.

And there are those who say that few terrorists could pull this off, that this would be a much more complicated and difficult feat than it may seem.
But the science exists to launch such an attack and, obviously, so does the hatred. President Clinton said as much as early as 1999 when he said a biological or chemical attack on the United States is "highly likely."

Six deadly microbes
• Authorities have identified six microbes that could be turned into fearsome weapons: Smallpox tops the chilling list. Tens of millions of infectious virus particles can fit into an aerosol can. A close second is anthrax, a spore-forming bacterium often carried by livestock that is especially virulent if inhaled. Also worrisome are bubonic plague, ebola, botulism and tularemia.

Seattle thought so, too. Before the World Trade Organization meeting there, hospitals stockpiled antidotes, just in case.

A commander of Afghanistan's Taliban told the Associated Press last year that Osama bin Laden — described by administration officials as the prime suspect in Tuesday's attacks — was training his fighters in the use of chemical weapons. The New York Times reported yesterday that satellite photos show dead animals at a terrorist training camp in Afghanistan operated by bin Laden.
Chemical weapons might have an extraordinary effect, wiping out masses of people at once. But the deadly effects likely would not spread beyond those who came in direct contact with the nerve gas or other poisonous agent.

In contrast, the scope of an attack using certain biological weapons in an airport or a domed stadium would not be apparent for days or weeks until victims showed symptoms of a mysterious illness.

By then, they could have infected many others around the world. Waves of patients might overwhelm hospitals.

The public, panicked, might turn on neighbors unless adequate medicines and vaccines were available. Which, experts warn, they are not.

"This is a critical moment to assess where we are vulnerable," said Dr. Margaret A. Hamburg of the Nuclear Threat Initiative, a Washington think tank. "The biological threat has to be very, very high on the priority list."

Others share Hamburg's concern. "I'm very, very alarmed," said Donald A. Henderson, a biodefense expert at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore and adviser to former President Bush.

Skeptics said the events of Sept. 11, while horrific, don't mean that a bioattack is on the horizon. Most terrorists, they said, don't have the expertise.

"We need to be realistic in our threat assessments," said Jonathan B. Tucker, a nonproliferation expert at the Monterey Institute of International Studies in Washington. "A worst-case scenario is unlikely."

[Anonymous]

I'm new around here but guessed it was about time to get a nickname. The ariline tactic has been used and is not likely to surface again for a short time at least, too many people would be willing to take down the terrorists. In addition, if a plane was drastically off course, the order would be given to shoot it down.
Would anyone agree that the next attept will be directed in one of these two places, an event (Superbowl) or a nuclear power plant?
With the Superbowl, security will be very tight and stringent, but maybe more of a nuisance tactic like cutting the power to an event of this magnitude or bombings just moments before in places where tons of people had gathered, ie a mass of bombings of bars (sorry there is probably a better place, usually the cities who have teams in the superbowl put the game up on the bigscreen in their stadium. Weaknes in that is that you do not know who is playing until a week or two before. Actually come to think of it that might be a good place to realease a bio weapon as security would not be as tight in that stadium.). TV viewers would have to decide which was more important watching the updates on the bombings or the game. In addition, everyone left in bars that had not been hit would leave in fear.
The Olympics would also be a good event in Salt Lake City, but then you risk a stronger multinational coalition against you.
Now on to the nuclear power plant, they have easy, private security and semi-remote locations. Even with the semi-remote locations, though, the impact would be disaterous and wide spread.
Any thoughts? Go easy guys, I am a newbie just out of school and in the profession a few months, don't scare me off from posting.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Hopefully A Thought on 2001-09-19 15:42 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Hopefully A Thought on 2001-09-19 15:50 ]</font>

[Aaron Brachowitz]

I think you can stop worrying about nuclear plants. I took an engineering course in college where the professor described the reactor containment building as strong enough to survive a WTC-type plane collision. Those big towers, by the way, are just an area to condense steam into water for cooling purposes. The actual reactor is in the containment building, probably mostly below ground and very well-protected. Security would prevent any inside-job sabotage -- unlike airports, they don't admit young Arab men travelling on expired "student" visas.

[Anonymous]

AB, but many, many engineers come from the east, India, Packistan, ect. it would not be difficult to plant one who was sympathetic. And the security companies are private, one could easily plant someone there.

Also, any thoughts on the events?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Hopefully A Thought on 2001-09-19 16:11 ]</font>

[Anonymous]

I think a nuclear power plant or major sporting events would be likely targets for conventional weapons – sporting event a biological weapon.

I heard on Larry King that Small Pox is very unlikely. Only the US and Russia is supposed to have strains in order to develop vaccine. However I heard that the close second deadliest threat, Anthrax, can be manufactured quite easily. The originating anthrax bacteria can be simply obtained from just about any cow farm. With Satellites picking up dead cows in Osama Bin Laden's camps I think I will try to look into getting some gas masks. I hope this fuss is all a waste of effort.

[Anonymous]

Why would Indians support Bin Laden?

[Anonymous]

I do not agree. They are targeted our financial/military infrastructure. A news blackout on our military activities will increase risk to our communication infrastuctures.

I have expected a sympathetic internet attack, and further attacks on our financial structure. I think the Statue of Liberty is also a prime target.

The people of New York seemed to show a lot more nerve than the people of DC, so going after a bridge to Virginia would seem to provide an opportunity for sadistic pleasure.

I hate to say it, but I do at the risk of sounding racist: Many professional athletes are Black. The strongest hold in America of the Muslim community outside Middle Eastern descent seems to be the black community. Some of the safest places from terrorist attack right now are probably social related issues important to the black community, which would include sporting events. (remember Mexico city and the raised fist?)

[Anonymous]

I see that the "US Cavalry" and "Cheeper Than Dirt" catalogs have some army surplus items. Anyone have any ideas where I could get some gas masks? But I am thinking these may be used and worn out and only good as a souvenir.

[Anonymous]

"The strongest hold in America of the Muslim community outside Middle Eastern descent seems to be the black community."

I was just thinking about that because didn't Mike Tyson convert to Islam?

I was just thinking about that because didn't Mike Tyson convert to Islam?

How about Hawaii. I heard that Hawaii is second only to Washington in terms of strategic military places. I think they have several military installations in addition to Pearl Harbor. Actually I think each branch of the military has a base there.

Combined with the tourism there, perhaps it is a possible target.

[Anonymous]

I think you are all a little confused. comparing Islam to fundamental Islam is like comparing your average Sunday churchgoer to the Amish- I see little or no connection.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, Bobby Seale has always been your average church goer, as has Dr. Farrakhan.