? for Potter fans

[Actuary321]

OK after seeing the movie with my kids I am now reading the books. I read the very interesting discussion thread from the WC and wanted to ask for a clarification.

In Book 2, Dobby the house elf uses magic three times that we are told about in the book, first when he levitates the pudding and Harry gets blamed for it, then when he closes the entrance to platform 9 3/4, and finally when he makes the bludger attack Harry. He says he did these things to keep Harry from going to Hogwarts because he over heard people plotting to kill Harry. Ron and Hermione when telling Harry about house-elves say that they can only use magic if they are given permission by their master. So who gave dobby permission?

[Anonymous]

If Draco hadn't been a casualty of earlier activity, he could probably answer the question easily.

Keep reading...you'll find out who Dobby's master is, and, therefore, who gave permission. Don't want to ruin it for you.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

At the first instance, Dobby tells Harry why he's doing it, and why Harry is so important that he has to use magic against his master's wishes.

[Wolverine]

I don't think he was given permission and for that reason he thinks he must hurt himself to punish himself. I could be wrong, but I think that is the case

[Kid Rock]

I agree with the Wolverine. Dobby is constantly punishing himself for the bad things he does. I don't think his owner would give permission based on what the owner actually did when they were buying books in Diagon Alley that is not revealed until the end.

[Actuary321]

Wolverine: That was my best guess.

I just finished #3 and saw something on another site that started me thinking. Obviously, Fred and George had the map for a while (I'm guessing years) before giving it to Harry. If this were the case, why did they never notice that the name Peter Pettigrew was at hogwarts when Ron arrived or when Percy was there before giving the rat to Ron? Everyone seemed to know Sirius Black and who he had killed.

[General Kenobi (ret.)]

I don't think the Marauder's Map shows everyone on the grounds (though it's not clear how it decides whom to show). There are times it would be illegible with that many names.

As another point, remember that Pettigrew helped create it. If it's beatable, he'd know how.

[ASA_Woman]

That's a very good question ...

[Dr T Non-Fan]

I can't recall the exact words, but I'm betting that a house elf can't use the powerful magic without permission.
Popping in and out of Hogwarts and the Dursleys or modifying a bludger may not qualify as powerful.
It also might be that Lucius Malfoy sent Dobby to try to keep Harry out of Hogwarts, with certain restrictions -- don't disclose the name of his owner, for example. It would make the rest of the plan, opening up the Chamber and killing Mudbloods less susceptible to foiling.

[Actuary321]

On 2001-12-21 14:03, Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I don't think the Marauder's Map shows everyone on the grounds (though it's not clear how it decides whom to show). There are times it would be illegible with that many names.

As another point, remember that Pettigrew helped create it. If it's beatable, he'd know how.

But Obi, Pettigrew showing up on the map was how Moony knew he was there.

And I was actually hoping to get a response from Draco because in a thread on the WC he wrote an open letter to Harry with the gist of it being that at some point in the future both their lives might rely on working together. If Draco had given Dobby permission to use the magic then this could come out later on as a reason Harry would trust Draco then. But I think the more likely explaination is that he hadn't been given permission.

Another question is: Didn't Dobby pop into see Harry at Hogwart's one time? And how did he do that and then disappear again? Snape makes it quite clear that you cannot Apperate or Disapperate in the Castle and how does he know this so diffinitively?

[Kid Rock]

It may be the user of the map determines who shows up. When they first look at the map, Dumbledore is in his office. I think at a later point, Harry wants to know where Snape is. Professor Lupin may have wanted to know where Peter was. Everybody is not on the map at one time, but the people the users want are always there.

[General Kenobi (ret.)]

Hermione is fond of reminding Harry and Ron that Apparation on the Hogwarts grounds is impossible ("It's in Hogwarts, a History. Am I the only one who's read it?" or words to that effect.)

However, it's quite apparent (especially in GoF) that the house elves have some sort of transit system that allows them to move expeditiously around the grounds.

[Ron Weasley]

There may also be a difference between Hermione's book knowledge and reality.

RW