PDA

View Full Version : how valuable is CERA?


MrWoot
10-19-2008, 02:11 AM
As the title implies, I would like to know how valuable the CERA designation is.

I have three questions:

1) What other positions or industries would care that I am working towards a CERA designation besides your typical actuarial roles (ex. insurance, retirement, H&B...)?

2) Is landing these positions difficult for a recent college graduate?

3) Will taking intermediate level accountancy courses be of much relevance in ERM?

Diane
10-23-2008, 01:25 AM
As the title implies, I would like to know how valuable the CERA designation is.

I have three questions:

1) What other positions or industries would care that I am working towards a CERA designation besides your typical actuarial roles (ex. insurance, retirement, H&B...)?

2) Is landing these positions difficult for a recent college graduate?

3) Will taking intermediate level accountancy courses be of much relevance in ERM?
I am not sure I understood the humour, but if you'd like a serious reply: CERA is a relatively new designation. It must compete with more established designations and organizations -- of which there are many. For example, in banking there is PRMIA and GARP. In GRC there are others, such as RIMS. There are also more specialized organizations such as IACPM that do not offer designations.

I think that CERA is an interesting concept, and one that will grow in the insurance industry. Moving to other industries is of course possible, but may take time.

One of the issues that the SOA has with other designations (such as FRM and PRM) is that they are not particularly quantitative. The CERA is moreso. So, all else being equal, the CERA should carry more weight as it becomes better known. However, most actuaries do not pursue graduate studies outside the FSA. In contrast, a large percentage of FRM/PRM holders have a Masters of PhD in a highly quantitative subject. Thus, they do not need further 'proof' of those credentials.

The current upheaval will also have an impact on the 'employment' markets in risk management.

Actiger
10-23-2008, 03:45 AM
However, most actuaries do not pursue graduate studies outside the FSA. In contrast, a large percentage of FRM/PRM holders have a Masters of PhD in a highly quantitative subject. Thus, they do not need further 'proof' of those credentials.

It's true that most actuaries (esp. academy members) don't even like the idea of putting any sort of emphasis on education, but I never knew FRM/PRMs have Masters or Ph.D in statistics or quant-ly equivalent. Plus, I think FRM exam is way too easy to be compared to SOA exams in terms of level of quant that's tested (I think it's more comparable to CAS Exam 8).

Run2standstill
10-23-2008, 02:24 PM
I disagree with you on the quantitative side for FRM. I have 2 Masters in applied math and stat (quit the Ph.D program from the latter), and I was the first 27 people took the ERM track of SOA course 8, and among the first 30+ CERAs. I also scorred among the highest in the FRM exam in the year I took the exam and as a result, GARP invited me to write the next year's FRM exam questions and accepted 70% of the questions I submitted. Based on my experience, I think FRM is quantitative enough to get one think about the complexity for a broad base risk management issues, and very importantly too, how to aggregate them. No exam will teach one enough to do a great job, expecially on the quantitative side, not even the SOA exams. However, it is really no need to focus the exam primarily on the quant side either. The world is not run mathematically, not matter how complex a math model could be. For a risk manager, in particular, the soft science skills are playing almost as much and an important role as hard science skills. The former is actually a lot more difficult to aquire than the latter. Such skills include do you have the guts to stand up against a white hot trading desk or products, can you find a way to influnce and persuade business and senior management to look and maybe even think in your way? Can you form a macro view to foresee some uncertainties or if the view is too fussy, can you think of some ways to hedge the potential scenarios?

Personally, I leave behind the math discussion between SOA exams vs. FRM or Putnum a long time ago. Rather, I ask myself, do I better understand the business and risks now? If yes, then you do not waste your time and effort for what ever exam or marterial you have studied.

Regards.



It's true that most actuaries (esp. academy members) don't even like the idea of putting any sort of emphasis on education, but I never knew FRM/PRMs have Masters or Ph.D in statistics or quant-ly equivalent. Plus, I think FRM exam is way too easy to be compared to SOA exams in terms of level of quant that's tested (I think it's more comparable to CAS Exam 8).

hw0799
10-23-2008, 02:45 PM
I don't agree about quant too when compare SOA exam with FRM. I took SOA investment track and FRM. I also on Exam Committe for AFE.

quant is not a strength in AFE exam when compare with investment track exam. when compare with FRM, SOA exam test differently than FRM. For example, I still remember FRM cover heavily on operational risk distribution and its attribute, but I don't see any in AFE exam.


for risk management concept, SOA CERA exam track is still under development and it takes time before it become more mature and stable while FRM has been there for years.

All in all, it is not directly comparable of SOA CERA exam and FRM. For SOA CERA exam, it is very focus on insurance industry. while FRM is more general, but occasionally you might see some question within context of banking industry.

a lot of risk management concept first started in banking industry and has been in existence for years and insurance industry just start to use it. this is JMO, I would like to hear more input.




It's true that most actuaries (esp. academy members) don't even like the idea of putting any sort of emphasis on education, but I never knew FRM/PRMs have Masters or Ph.D in statistics or quant-ly equivalent. Plus, I think FRM exam is way too easy to be compared to SOA exams in terms of level of quant that's tested (I think it's more comparable to CAS Exam 8).

sanki
10-23-2008, 08:33 PM
I passed FRM exam and also prepare for AFE exam and CERA track now,

I feel the knowledge system for FRM materials are pratical in bank industry and efficient enough for the current real world,

I can feel AFE is under development and try to be pratical for insurance industry but still have room to be filled, for example,
(1) They didn't mention too much about Solvency II system and Quantitative Impact Studies, but FRM include Basel II accord;
(2) Lack some concepts that are important in European insurance companies, like MCEV
(3) They mentioned advantages and strucutres of CDS, but this new financial product seems dangerous and abused in the real world.

And for risk category, I feel AFE exam covers underwriting risk and credit risk, few for market risk but most of them are under APMV exam, operational risk was covered in one section of the second FSA module,

that's my 2 cents

hw0799
10-23-2008, 09:14 PM
For credit risk, and market risk management, SOA investment track currently is the one which most intensively cover these areas.

AFE address these areas a little bit and also cover other risk management area, like ERM concept, corporate governance, etc.

I feel it has a little bit everything but can not have depth in everything.

Just my 2 cents.

hien
10-23-2008, 09:33 PM
Can anyone tell me more about FRM? This credential seems substantially impressive by virtue of the curriculum.
What is the value of it? Does it have anything to do with the actuarial field?

sanki
10-25-2008, 08:33 PM
Can anyone tell me more about FRM? This credential seems substantially impressive by virtue of the curriculum.
What is the value of it? Does it have anything to do with the actuarial field?

FRM is easy to pass for actuaries, even for a newbie who transfer from IT field or a busy senior management, that give us a good language to communicate because we all learn common knowledge from it (like LOMA exam),

Good communication makes a good team, good team can make good jobs,

I think that's the value of this credential

volva yet
11-01-2008, 11:08 PM
CERA looks like fun.

Diane
11-02-2008, 01:33 AM
Can anyone tell me more about FRM? This credential seems substantially impressive by virtue of the curriculum.
What is the value of it? Does it have anything to do with the actuarial field?

Yes, the FRM can be relevant for actuaries. However, it does tend to focus on risks that are common across a variety of financial institutions.

The FRM is very different from actuarial exams. It asks a number of questions (it is a long exam) but they are largely straightforward questions (without the twists and tricks endemic to actuarial exams). There is a decided mathematical component, but it is not similar to the early SOA exams... it is more incidental to the material.

It might also be worth looking into the PRM (from PRMIA) which is the other common designation in banking risk management.

Diane
11-02-2008, 01:42 AM
It's true that most actuaries (esp. academy members) don't even like the idea of putting any sort of emphasis on education, but I never knew FRM/PRMs have Masters or Ph.D in statistics or quant-ly equivalent. Plus, I think FRM exam is way too easy to be compared to SOA exams in terms of level of quant that's tested (I think it's more comparable to CAS Exam 8).

Yes, it is entirely possible to have an FRM designation on its own, and this would not indicate a particular level of mathematics. However, many people who choose to write the FRM do so because they are launching into a career in risk management from school or from another field. The point of the exam is therefore not to demonstrate mathematical ability - it is to demonstrate a working knowledge of the field of risk management.

So, if you combine the FRM with a masters degree or PhD in a quantitative subject, then you get a fairly standard resume for a job requiring 2+ years of experience. There is no need to question the mathematical abilities of someone with good graduate studies records- it is then based on the school's reputation, etc.

In contrast, most actuarial students have a specific number of exams (or ASA/FSA) and a Bachelors degree.

Guest
11-11-2008, 06:04 PM
Anyone heard back on their application?

I got a email saying they are backlogged but nothing since.

Kenshiro
11-12-2008, 03:44 PM
Do you think the CERA credential is useful at all for actuaries not working in the insurance industry?

Five in Two
11-12-2008, 05:59 PM
Do you think the CERA credential is useful at all for actuaries not working in the insurance industry?

At this point in time, I don't think it's useful for actuaries working in the insurance industry or outside of the insurance industry. Maybe that will change with time. The SOA is hoping/betting that it will.

WWSituation
11-13-2008, 09:41 AM
At this point in time, I don't think it's useful for actuaries working in the insurance industry or outside of the insurance industry. Maybe that will change with time. The SOA is hoping/betting that it will.

Why would anybody outside of the insurance industry ever dream of taking an insurance specific set of actuarial exams? Do you think that people will view insurance the way they used to view banking and be willing to take all the exams, particularly without study time from their employers?

The SOA is drawing dead, and throwing their chips into the pot anyway because they don't know what else to do. They should have acted when they had a strong hand preflop.

Guest
01-09-2009, 12:21 PM
Hopefully someone is still reading these threads.

I received an email stating I qualified for the CERA through experience and I have to attend a seminar before using the credentials.

It sounded like the seminar was going to be in April but as of yet I have not heard anything. Now I have to plan a trip overseas in April and want to make sure I do not overlap with the seminar (I know not someone elses problem).

Has anyoine heard anything on dates for this seminar? (Or have any idea what it entails).

JMO
01-09-2009, 12:41 PM
I looked for information at the SOA website and came up empty. So I sent an e-mail to SOA customer service. Will post the response when I get it.

You would think there would be more info about the seminar SOMEWHERE.

Have you actually made application for the designation? Maybe those whose applications have been approved get the necessary info sent directly to them.

Guest
01-09-2009, 12:45 PM
I looked for information at the SOA website and came up empty. So I sent an e-mail to SOA customer service. Will post the response when I get it.

You would think there would be more info about the seminar SOMEWHERE.

Have you actually made application for the designation? Maybe those whose applications have been approved get the necessary info sent directly to them.

Yes made the application through the Experienced Practioner route. Received an email indicating I was accepted and have not heard anything since. Maybe been a month?

Thanks for the response and follow up.

JMO
01-09-2009, 03:20 PM
SOA staff tells me there will be seminars in both April and Nov. Watch for details, they should be appearing on the web site in the future.

And it looks like you can go ahead with planning of your trip, if you don't mind waiting until Nov. for the designation.

Guest
01-20-2009, 05:23 PM
Ugh!! I just got an email inviting me to two CERA seminars coming up but neither of them are this mystery seminar they spoke of needing to use the designation.

tommie frazier
01-20-2009, 05:29 PM
i think you have to attend one of the two, and they kidnap you away to the mystry seminar after the welcome social event.

JMO
01-21-2009, 08:59 AM
Well, for whatever it's worth, I have been checking the SOA website for information about the upcoming spring life meeting. The link still takes you to a page that says, "More information will be posted in early 2009."

A phrase we sometimes use at home, "Earth soon or Martian soon?"

_BullDog_
01-21-2009, 10:14 AM
have you looked on the CERA website?

JMO
01-21-2009, 11:12 AM
You mean here?
http://www.ceranalyst.org/
I can't find anything about the Experienced Practitioner Pathway seminars there either.

Guest
01-21-2009, 10:28 PM
You mean here?
http://www.ceranalyst.org/
I can't find anything about the Experienced Practitioner Pathway seminars there either.

I found it. Received an email.

The seminars listed in the email are not the EPP but there is an attachment with the information needed.

It's April 28th and 29th.

kazh
03-10-2010, 11:46 AM
:bump: This CERA did a full page in WSJ yesterday: http://www.cera.com/aspx/cda/public1/home/home.aspx

SoA obviously doesn't own the acronym. :shrug:

tommie frazier
03-10-2010, 01:25 PM
focus on the bright side-more people than we ever dreamed are talking about CERA right now. branching us into energy and other areas...

Anonymouse
03-10-2010, 04:59 PM
http://cera.org/ (California Enduro Riders Association)

FWIW, I recall GARP promoting the FRM on Bloomberg last year.

Quick Slant
03-13-2010, 01:56 PM
:bump: This CERA did a full page in WSJ yesterday: http://www.cera.com/aspx/cda/public1/home/home.aspx

SoA obviously doesn't own the acronym. :shrug:

Nice job by the "thought leaders".