Hall of Fame

[Pseudolus]

Announcement later today. Work a little voodoo for your candidates:

GaryCarterGaryCarterGaryCarterGaryCarterGaryCarter GaryCarterGaryCarterGaryCarterGaryCarter

[Anonymous]

Donnie Baseball
dum dum dum dum dum
Donnie Baseball
dum dum dum dum dum

Highly unlikely, but I think he should be in. If the back hadn't gone he'd a been a stone cold lock. Great fielder, hit for power and average, outstanding baserunner (although fairly slow) and one of the 2 or 3 best clutch hitters I've ever seen. Too bad the Yanks of the 80's didn't find themselves in to many significant situations requiring a clutch at bat. If you watched him day in and day out though, you got a chance to see it. One of only two celeb's I have idolized in my lifetime.

[Oliver Klozov]

If Mattingly played for the Brewers he probably wouldn't even be on the ballot.

I think that Bert "Be Home" Blyleven should get in. He definatly has the numbers to get in, plus he probably had the best curve ball of his generation.

[Anonymous]

Did you see him play from 1983 to 1990 or so (when the back started to go)? The fact that he was one of the 3 or 4 best players in the game in that span means nothing? Personally, I think had he played in Milwaukee, where there isn't the immense pressure of NY/Steingrabber, he would have been even better. The one thing I will agree with you on is, given that Rickey spent a few years in NY, Mattingly's RBI numbers were somewhat inflated in those years.

A couple of interesting stats:

1. Had more HR's than strike outs once or twice in his career (I think)
2. In '85 or '86 he popped out to the infield once
3. Hit 6 grand slams in 1986(?), a MLB record, but only had 6 for his career

[Pseudolus]

For reference, check out DM's full stats: http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mattido01.shtml

I lived in the NYC area until after Mattingly retired, so I did follow him pretty closely (although I was a bit young for the start of it). He was good, but not Hall good. For you "three or four best" comment, note that he was in the top four MVP vote getters only twice (not perfect, but something. He was really only a great player up through 1987, after which his slugging dropped off a lot, even though his BA held on for another year or two. If he had extended his '84-'87 peak a bit longer, he'd have a much better argument. But he didn't.

For kicks, compare his career stat to Keith Hernandez, who I'd say was at least his defensive equal.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

I'll go with whatever Neyer says.
Mattingly -- no.
Carter -- yes.

[C. Montgomery Burns]

Mattingly! Get rid of those sideburns!

[Pseudolus]

How about the Goose? The role of the major-league relief pitcher has fluctuated so much over the decades that I don't even know how to go about evaluating one for the Hall. Cool 'stache, though.

[Patience]

Carter
Tiant
Gossage
Sutter
Ozzie
Andre

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Ozzie -- yes. Two z's will get you very far these days. Oh yeah, darn tootin' good shortstop.
I'm up in the air with the relief pitchers. I think the standard set by those already in is perceived as too low. Especially when Mariano is out there in front of 60% of the voters every other game. Playing for 15 minutes doesn't help the cause either, and the "closer" status is a bit overrated.

[Abducens]

Baseball provides me with all the Z's I need.

[Pseudolus]

Gossage (in his prime) was out there for so many innings that his value to the team may really have been up there with starters, unlike the 3-out (or 1-out) specialists of today. Gossage pitched 100+ innings in 4 seasons (141, 134, 133, 102), (not counting the year he was a starter) plus 2 in the 90s,and 2 in the 80s. Rivera threw 107 innings in 1996 but hasn't gone above 81 since. (He does get mucho extra credit, though, for his postseason performances: 79 innings with a crazy 0.91 ERA.) It was a different world back then.

[Pseudolus]

Tuesday, January 8
Ozzie Smith elected, Carter misses by 11-vote margin
Associated Press


NEW YORK -- Ozzie Smith, regarded as the finest-fielding shortstop ever, was elected to the Hall of Fame on his first try by an overwhelming margin Tuesday.


Smith was the only player picked, with Gary Carter falling just short.


A 13-time Gold Glove winner while with the St. Louis Cardinals and San Diego Padres, Smith was chosen on 91.7 percent of the ballots.


The Wizard of Oz became the 37th player picked in his first year of eligibility.

http://www.espn.go.com/classic/s/2002/0108/1307723.html

Should've started my Carter mojo a day earlier...

[sb_jim]

Any chance Ozzie will go into the hall as a Padre like Winfield did?

[Pseudolus]

The fact that you even suggest that is causing Obi-Wan, somewhere, to shudder violently without quite knowing why.

[Pseudolus]

Here's the vote breakdown (hope this comes out readable):
Player Votes Pct.
Ozzie Smith 433 91.7%
Gary Carter 343 72.7%
Jim Rice 260 55.1%
Bruce Sutter 238 50.4%
A. Dawson 214 45.3%
R. Gossage 203 43.0%
S. Garvey 134 28.4%
Tommy John 127 26.9%
B. Blyleven 124 26.3%
Jim Kaat 109 23.1%
Jack Morris 97 20.6%
D. Mattingly 96 20.3%
Luis Tiant 85 18.0%
A. Trammell 74 15.7%
Dale Murphy 70 14.8%
Dave Parker 66 14.0%
D.Concepcion 56 11.9%
K.Hernandez 29 6.1%
Ron Guidry 23 4.9%
D. Stewart 23 4.9%
M.Greenwell 2 0.4%
Frank Viola 2 0.4%
L. Dykstra 1 0.2%
Tim Wallach 1 0.2%
M.Henneman 0 0.0%
Jeff Russell 0 0.0%
S.Sanderson 0 0.0%
R.Thompson 0 0.0%


75% to get in the Hall. <5% and you're not on the ballot next year. It appears that there were 472 ballots cast this year (433/.917 ~= 472).

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pseudolus on 2002-01-08 14:56 ]</font>

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Good one, Ab-man!

A good broadcasting career will help players get into the hall. Just glad-hand a bunch of fogey-voters for a few years, and remind them to vote.

[Patience]

can't understand how Fisk is in & Carter isn't. had better years just not as long.

[Pseudolus]

Carter will make it - he's trending well (34, 50, 65, 73%, my sources say). I think the only new major nominees next year will be Murray and Ryno, so the competition won't be too fierce.

Another Carter argument: He played in some pretty pitching-friendly parks which hurt his numbers a bit.

[Dizzy Atmosphere]

At least Trammell, unlike his DP partner, will be on next year's ballot.

[Pseudolus]

Stupid Quiz of the Day: HOFer-elect Ozzie Smith is second all-time in total assists. <SPAN TITLE="Rabbit Maranville">Who</SPAN> is first?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pseudolus on 2002-01-08 16:45 ]</font>

[3rookie]

Brooks Robinson?

[Pub Guy]

My only memories of Gary Carter are him asking the ump to check if Mike Scott's splitter was scuffed every time he struck out against him.

[Pseudolus]

3rook: Hover your mouse pointer over the bold "Who" in my question.

PG: RedSox fans probably remember Carter for starting a game-winning rally off of Calvin Schiraldi in a certain Game 6.

[Anonymous]

On 2002-01-08 16:41, Pseudolus wrote:
Stupid Quiz of the Day: HOFer-elect Ozzie Smith is second all-time in total assists. <SPAN TITLE="Rabbit Maranville">Who</SPAN> is first?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pseudolus on 2002-01-08 16:45 ]</font>


And the Rabbit is the only guy in HOF with a worse batting average than Ozzie.

[Patience]

check Ray Schalk on the batting average, I thought he was .250's (.256?)

[Pseudolus]

On 2002-01-09 09:24, tonythetiger wrote:
And the Rabbit is the only guy in HOF with a worse batting average than Ozzie.


Tommy Lasorda: 14 AB, 1H --> .071 BA

even "better",
Walter Alston: 1 AB, 0H --> .000 BA

[Pseudolus]

(OK, worst BA for someone in my db with a position listed other than manager or pitcher: Ray Schalk, C, .253. Played for the ChiSox in the teens and twenties. Next are David Bell (.254), Harmon Killebrew (.256), and then the Rabbit (.258).)

[The Drunken Actuary]

Mattingly! Get rid of those sideburns!The simpsons avatar makes this one too good to leave alone.

[Pseudolus]

&lt;SPAN TITLE="Yeah, it does :)""&gt;Hey, does this "span" thing still work?&lt;/SPAN&gt;

Hmm. No. But it still works for the post I wrote in Jan. 2002 (on my b-day). Odd.

[Pseudolus]

Sounds like pretty awful medical stuff happening for Gary Carter right now. He's only 57, too.