Parcells

[Patience]

Does anyone believe Bill Parcells should be a HoF nominee?

Can't deny the coaching success, but in my mind he should be retired for the last time first.

[jets fan]

It would seem pretty strange if he was elected in while he's sitting on the sidelines coaching in the current season. It's possible he could have a pre-season game scheduled for the same time as the induction ceremony!

[Abducens]

They have already announced this year's HOF participants - Giants & Texans.

Also, induction is on Saturday (?) while the game was moved to Monday Night a few years ago.

Also, Tampa was just there in '98, so no future coincidence is likely.

Anyways, I see no problem with inducting him while still coaching. What would it impact?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Abducens on 2002-01-18 12:09 ]</font>

[jets fan]

The "Hall of Fame" game was not played on "induction Saturday", but if you check the schedule (http://scores.nfl.com/scores/2001/preseason/week0/index.html), you'll see that there were two other games that were played on that Saturday and one more the next day, as well as the "Hall of Fame" game on Monday night. It would be a major inconvenience for someone who should be with his team to make that kind of trip.

[Patience]

no impact. But to me the coach (player) should be retired. Just the way I always felt it has been. Would you feel differently if he coached last year?

otherwise why not nominate Jerry Rice now, we know he deserves it.

[General Kenobi (ret.)]

A coach cannot be elected while he's actually coaching. If Parcells comes back before voting day, he's ineligible.

[jets fan]

Is voting day February 2nd?

[Abducens]

Good point jets fan, you got me there.

[Patience]

If I were voting I would probably over look him, just for the possibility of coming back.

[Mr. Penguin]

I heard Mike Francessa (sp?) talking about this and he said that Parcells may be leaning towards not taking the TB job in order to insure his election into the HoF.

Besides, TB are a pack of idiots if they hire him. Is he a great coach? Sure. But you know if you hire him he'll be "retired" again in two years.

[RedSoxFan]

If he's not going to coach the Bucs for that reason, I think that's pretty lame. Its like all the people suggesting MJ not come back so he doesn't "tarnish his legacy". In this case, its the person in question wondering if he should come back. If he's really a good coach, worth inducting, he'll be successful enough in TB to continue to be considered worthy.

[Mick Fan]

Just heard that Parcell's not coaching! Now Tampa Bay's really screwed!

[Lee Mellon]

There's still a couple decent coaches out there. Marty and his family, Dennis Green, Mora...

[moj]

On 2002-01-19 09:40, Lee Mellon wrote:
There's still a couple decent coaches out there. Marty and his family, Dennis Green, Mora...


Which one is decent?
Marty has never won a big game. KC was the best 2nd tier team or the worst first tier team under him. Marty always played a conservative offense. This is exactly how Tampa has played so briging in Marty will not address thier needs.

Dennis survived yearly firing rumors because the owners kept thinking that next year would be the breakthrough. Never happenned. I wonder who will give him the next shot. Perhaps some divsion 1-AA team.

Jim had the best QB, WR and RB combo (short of the Rams). However, he did not realize that his team had to also play defense and special teams. However, Jim has coached elsewhere and had a good defense, so there is potential there. If I was the owner, I'd be looking a Jim over these other 2 bozos.

[Patience]

My vote: Lovey Smith Rams defensive coordinator, if they are willing to wait a few weeks.

2nd would be Shottenheimer (sp)

[Han Solo]

Who is TB's defensive coordinator now? I think since their defense is still pretty good, and if he is going to keep his job, TB will bring in a more offensive oriented head coach. That's where their problems lie. Lovie Smith or Schottenheimer would not address those needs.

[Abducens]

If Tampa isn't careful, they will sink into the Detroit quagmire of having lots of talented but uncoachable players. Those guys are only concerned with getting air time and making the Pro Bowl.

[M.]

As a big Dungy fan, I'm kind of glad to see my old Bucs team in this predicament. Particularly the owners. They're bums.

Tampa may not get to retain the services of the defensive coaches. Monte Kiffin (the coordinator) is a genius, but why wouldn't he and his whole staff go to Indy if the Colts hire Dungy?

Serves them right. The Bucs were the biggest bunch of underachievers in the league this past year. I feel sorry for some of my favorite players, but only for them.

[Anonymous]

On 2002-01-21 12:59, M wrote:
The Bucs were the biggest bunch of underachievers in the league this past year.

The Giants were 12-4 and in the Super Bowl last year. They added Kenny Holmes. They went 7-9 and missed the playoffs.

I'ld say they beat TB for underachieving.

[M.]

tony: Okay, you've got me beat.

[jets fan]

You may want to add Tennessee in the class of the biggest underachievers.

[Patience]

one vote for New Orleans

[Kid Rock]

John Gruden will end up in Tampa. As a playoff team in the last 3 years, they should be able to get a good coach. There was no need to fire Dungy unless they were going to get a coach that was proven to be better. A guy that won 54 games in 6 years after the organization had lost 10 games in something like 10 of the previous 12 years deserved a bit better. Tony Dungy will be in Indy or Carolina.

Dennis Green achieved many things in Minnesota. He made the NFC title game 2 times and the playoffs in 8 of 10 years. Not too many teams make the Super Bowl. He had 7 lots of different QBs, 1 often injured RB and some good receivers. He won with offense and defense (when Dungy was there). Carolina looks like a good fit.

Mora is done. He is too old to start again. He blew up in his last season with the Saints and Colts. He is supposed to be a coach that wins with D, and the Colts were embarrasing.

SD is idiotic for going after Schottenheimer. They should go for Marvin Lewis and keep Norv Turner as Offensive Coordinator.

They showed the 1992 Green Bay coaching staff that Holmgren had in his first year. John Gruden, Steve Mariuchi, Andy Reid, and Dick Jauron were all on it. Not too bad.

[Abducens]

But don't forget, it all goes back to Bill Walsh!

[Han Solo]

Put Indy in there for most underachieving. At least the Bucs *made* the playoffs....

And as a Redskins fan, I am of the opinion that the Giants overachieved last season. This season they showed their true colors.

[Patience]

On 2002-01-21 22:04, Han Solo wrote:
I am of the opinion that the Giants overachieved last season. This season they showed their true colors.


Somewhere in the middle. Over achieved last year, under achieved this year, just not as great a drop off as one would think.

[Kid Rock]

Giants are 3 for 3 in missing the playoffs after going to the Super Bowl. But, any team that makes the Super Bowl and returns all their key players and makes an addition like Kenny Holmes should make the playoffs.

Indy was the biggest underachiever, though. Many people picked these clowns to win the division, or even mae the Super Bowl. Peyton Manning putting up numbers but not winning as much as he should is not a surprise. See Archie Manning.

[jets fan]

It's off to Indy (http://espn.go.com/nfl/news/2002/0122/1315433.html)!!!
http://espn.go.com/media/nfl/2002/0111/photo/s_dungy_ht.jpg

[Kid Rock]

Dominos start to fall. Gruden now goes to the Bucs and Dennis Green goes to the Raiders. Once Green gets there, don't be surprised to see Randy Moss show up in black. Maybe not next year, but within the next 2-3.

[jets fan]

Al Davis doesn't have to let Gruden go, but he may choose to do so. But if the Bucs do get him, it will cost them compensation - i.e. high level draft pick(s). If Oakland does have a vacancy, Dennis Green's the prime suspect, but I've also heard Art Shell's name mentioned by Chris Mortensen. Carolina and San Diego still haven't sealed the deal yet either. Ted Cotrell (our defensive coordinator) has talked with the Panthers, so we'll see what happens - they're also interested in Fox.

[Patience]

I do believe a really good coach is worth a draft pick, especially for a playoff team.

I haven't seen enough of the Raiders to comment on how good Gruden is. Results only tell apart of the story.

[Shrek]

Gruden is the kind of coach the Silver and Black have needed for years. The dude is intense. Too bad he won't be there after '02. Not to dis Dungy, but it would probably be a huge culture shock to some of the Bucs players to have him leading camp.

[Kid Rock]

Best bet is Marv Lewis will be the Carolina coach. That division will possibly be wide open next year. No team is really a gimme for the playoffs. I think he would be a better fit for San Diego if they kept Norv Turner, but it looks like those idiots want Marty S.

[jets fan]

Another piece of the puzzle falls into place:

Fox Hunt Finished
http://espn.go.com/media/nfl/2002/0124/photo/a_fox1_ht.jpg
John Fox takes over a Panthers team that went 1-15 in 2001.

[Anonymous]

The game shed light on 2 coaches:

1) Parcells relied heavily on Belichick and should not get in the HOF.

2) Vermeil is a better coach than Martz. The 2001-2 Rams were the same offensively, but much improved on defense over the 1999 team.

[The Drunken Actuary]

WOuld anyone really argue with #2 anyway?

[jets fan]

I agree with TTT on Parcells/Belichick - I don't have the records readily available, but I'd like to see Parcell's record with and without Belichick.

Also, I don't think there's any doubt that Vermeil is a better coach than Martz.

[Han Solo]

Final list of HOF inductees:
George Allen (Yeah Redskins!)
Jim Kelly
John Stallworth
Dave Casper
Dan Hampton.

I think Parcells screwed himself getting in this year because of the Bucs thing.

Anybody else feel that Ray Guy should get in?

[Patience]

absolutly on Guy.

I think Parcels is just too new to retirement to be in this time, even w/o the Bucs thing.

[quentin cassidy]

how could they elect john stallworth, but leave out art monk? i don't think i can even attribute my confusion to syracuse bias this time.

monk retired as the nfl all-time receptions leader, played in 3 super bowls, and played in the same era as stallworth (it is irrelevant to compare wr stats from different eras).

[Han Solo]

On 2002-02-04 12:18, quentin cassidy wrote:
how could they elect john stallworth, but leave out art monk? i don't think i can even attribute my confusion to syracuse bias this time.

monk retired as the nfl all-time receptions leader, played in 3 super bowls, and played in the same era as stallworth (it is irrelevant to compare wr stats from different eras).


As a Redskins fan, far be it from me to disagree with you. I think Monk will get in soon though. A lot of people around the league respect him.

[Patience]

Sometimes I think it is a matter of 1st things first. I think who played first sometimes plays as important a role, & stats play a relatively small role, compared to baseball.

as recievers go Lofton will be interesting.

[jets fan]

The Bucs have offered the Raiders record compensation (http://espn.go.com/nfl/news/2002/0205/1323283.html) for Gruden. Why doesn't Al Davis want to do it? Gruden will voluntarily leave after next season anyway.

Also, Norv Turner (http://espn.go.com/nfl/columns/pasquarelli_len/1323137.html) is now Miami's offensive coordinator. Interesting.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jets fan on 2002-02-06 12:55 ]</font>

[Han Solo]

I'd watch out for Miami next season. Especially if some other rumors turn out to be true about the Fins trading for Ricky Williams.