Switch from Pension to Insurance?

[Double Down Trent]

Does anyone have any advice for making the switch from pension consulting to life/health insurance?

I'm just plain sick of FACE time. I don't mind OT when I'm busy, but there are at least 2 people in my office who have a better reputation than me because they hit the gym at 5:00 and come back to their desks at 6:30-7:00 to pick up their crap before they head home every day. Even though I actually work more hours and my work is better, because these people's faces are actually seen at 6:30 every single day, it is assumed by the higher-ups that they work harder.

I'm also sick of keeping track of every minute of my day and at the end of every 2 weeks trying to fudge my time records so that I don't actually bill the clients for the right amount of time because the lead consultants can't estimate how much time is needed to perform certain tasks, all the while trying to make sure that I can still hit my billable hours goal.

Just plain sick of it!

So does anyone have any advice for me? FYI, I have a little over 2 years of experience and had an internship at a large insurance company. I have passed 11 hours of exams in my two years and failed one sitting miserably due to a family crisis immediately before the exam. Those hours of exam translate to C. I & II + 25 PD + EA-1B (which is worthless in insurance).

[Fred Scuttle]

Here is my advice:


1) With 2 years of experience and your exam history, it shouldn't be too hard for you to switch now. You may even want to consider CAS or non-actuarial positions which you can still get. Keep this in mind: these types of options (including a life/health position) will no longer be available to you in a couple of years without taking a SEVERE pay cut. If you want to make a switch, do it now.

2) The type of BS you describe can happen at any type of employer and for any type of profesional. Do not think that because you go to work for an Insurance Company you will automatically avoid it. Choose your employer carefully, and don't be unwilling to leave if they don't treat you right. Feeling trapped working in a lousy company is the second greatest complaint of actuaries.

3) Don't limit yourself to life/health actuarial work. (Repeating myself, but it's an important point)

4) Write a killer resume (I assume you have already done this, but if not do it immediately). Call a recruiter. If the recruiter is not helping you, send out your resume to every insurance company you can find. Be indiscriminate. Why waste your time researcing 100 companies, only to be rejected by the 5 you have found the best, when you can send your resume to 100 companies and only have to research the 5 who show interest in you?

5) If you have very specific career goals, or if you have contacts in the industry, you would probably want to ignore most of this advice. However, keeping an open mind and advertising yourself broadly can never hurt. The job seeking and interviewing process can be a great learning experience. When I was first looking for a job, I was shocked at the poor working conditions at what I had previously considered to be my top prospect, and I was pleasantly surprised by the results from a company that I had considered a throwaway letter.

6) You already know this, but if you want to be an actuary, you will have to pass exams. I won't repeat the litany of exam atrocities, you can find them easily enough in other threads and I assume you know what you are doing. IF YOU ARE SURE that you are ready for exam hell, you should not hesitate to make the change. It would be silly to think that you would have better prospects with your experience + 3 exams than you will have with your experience + 2 exams. You will not. If you are not sure that you are ready for exam hell, quit now: you are not ready and you will not succeed.

[aNoNo]

Bobby,

You might want to consider a job as retirement plans manager for a Fortune 500 company. Your pension background would serve you well. Depending on the size of the company and structure of the specific postion, a retirement manager could make in the $90,000 to $100,000 salary range. It could be a lot quicker pay-off than working through the exams.

If you are close to EA, I would definitely go for that as a back-up career path.

[Alya]

aNoNo,

and who will hire a 90-100k manager with less then 10 years of experience?

[aNoNo]

On 2002-01-22 09:30, Alya wrote:
aNoNo,

and who will hire a 90-100k manager with less then 10 years of experience?


Alya - good point - Bobby is light on experience for a manager job. He could have a chance at Benefit Analyst job that could get him in line for a manager job.

There are corporate benefit/retirement jobs at large companies with pay at levels comparable to what I see on the DW Simpson survey. Maybe the Web Master from DW Simpson could offer on opinion on opportinities and pay levels for corporate benefit jobs?

[WWSituation]

Plus, then the consultants will kiss your butt as opposed to mopping the floor with it.

[Grits N Gravy]

I made the switch about a year and a half ago, after three and a half years in pension consulting. I didn't take a pay cut, exactly, but I forfeited a portion of the job hopping increase I would have received by continuing in pension consulting. I went the recruiter route and told them that I was interested in making the switch (although I left the door open for pension consulting, since my first priority was switching cities, and I was only willing to sacrifice a limited amount of salary to make the switch to insurance). She lined up a couple of consulting interviews and an insurance interview and I ended up getting a couple of offers in short order. As was mentioned above, every job has its share of B.S., but I am very happy to be done with billable hours and time sheets. Face time wasn't too much of an issue, since my consulting office tended to clear out around 6:00, much to the chagrin of management.

Anyway, the switch can definitely be done, but with just two years of experience in a slightly different field, don't be surprised if you're lumped in with new hires coming out of college.

Also, if the actuarial field is something that interests you, I'd hold off bolting for a non-actuarial career. From a limited sample of salary data while I was still in pension consulting, the benefits managers don't make nearly as much as quoted above, and the analysts working under them make less than entry level actuarial students.

[DW Simpson]

<small>Quote: There are corporate benefit/retirement jobs at large companies with pay at levels comparable to what I see on the DW Simpson survey. Maybe the Web Master from DW Simpson could offer on opinion on opportunities and pay levels for corporate benefit jobs?</small>

http://www.ifebp.org/2002/01/05/37516/98044668-0474-KEYWORD.Missing.asp has a good summary of recent benefits salary surveys. There's also a thread at http://www.benefitslink.com/mb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12971 that includes a discussion of the ASPA's recent salary survey of dozens of benefits jobs. My copy just came in the mail the other day and it's pretty thorough.

[42]

BB, if your company really is focussed on face time, and if you really are bothered by having to account for every minute of your day, maybe it is time to change jobs. OTOH, if the problem is favoritism, manipulation, and deception, you're liable to find it wherever you go, and you might want to take a stab at dealing with it at your current company first.

Have you ever discussed your concerns about "face time" with the higher-ups? Unless the two people who hit the gym at 5:00 are billing their hours at the gym to the clients, the higher-ups should know that you work more hours and produce better work than they do. Are you sure being seen at 6:30 is really the only reason why they have a better reputation? I assume there is some sort of office perq that they receive and you don't, and that this seems unfair. Have you ever indicated your desire for this perq to the higher-ups? How have they responded?

If you ask the right questions in a non-threatening open dialogue, you may just learn something about yourself. Of course, you may also find that the higher-ups in your company are the shallow, scum-sucking bottom dwellers that you think they are. But don't just assume the latter. If you're thinking of leaving the company anyway, what have you got to lose? Good luck.

[DW Simpson]

<small>Quote: Anyway, the switch can definitely be done, but with just two years of experience in a slightly different field, don't be surprised if you're lumped in with new hires coming out of college.</small>

However, this wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing because there's still strong entry level demand and there isn't much of a gap between a new student versus a 2-year student compensation. I wouldn't let sunk costs in terms of experience and exams deter you from exploring where you want your career to go over the next several decades.

In retrospect, it won't matter as long as you're sure you're where you want to be, whether it's remaining on your current track or changing disciplines or careers. I don't have much to add because I think most of the advice in this thread has been on the mark.

[Anonymous]

So does anyone have any advice for me? FYI, I have a little over 2 years of experience and had an internship at a large insurance company. I have passed 11 hours of exams in my two years and failed one sitting miserably due to a family crisis immediately before the exam. Those hours of exam translate to C. I & II + 25 PD + EA-1B (which is worthless in insurance).


Actually, if you switch to Life or Health, EA1-B will not be worthless. It will count towards your PD and you won't have to do that 15-credit PD project. Plus, you are now familiar with Pension Cost methods for Course 5.

[Anonymous]

I recently made the switch from pension consulting to insurance. The lack of billable hours is great and I enjoy working less hours while writing exams. However, the jobs are VERY different. Make sure you really understand what it is that you want out of your career in the long term. It may not be all that you expect once you get to insurance. I personally find it very boring. There are huge growth opportunities. I am now working for an excellent company if you want to be an insurance actuary. Unfortunately, I have no desire to stay in the insurance field. Back to pensions I go!

[Anonymous]

On 2002-01-23 21:13, Anonymous wrote:
I recently made the switch from pension consulting to insurance. The lack of billable hours is great and I enjoy working less hours while writing exams. However, the jobs are VERY different. Make sure you really understand what it is that you want out of your career in the long term. It may not be all that you expect once you get to insurance. I personally find it very boring. There are huge growth opportunities. I am now working for an excellent company if you want to be an insurance actuary. Unfortunately, I have no desire to stay in the insurance field. Back to pensions I go!


So you are saying that pension consulting job is more interesting than life insurance? I'm currently in life insurance and considering switching to pension, but I don't know if it's a good idea. I've never worked for a consulting firm. Any advice?

[AC]

I find that pension work is more interesting than life insurance work, but with pension consulting, u give up the stability of a regular work day. I recently switched consulting firms, and being naive as I am, I thought that with the new company I would work more or less 8 hour days. The only change is that instead of working late everynight, I stay very late on a few occasions.

[Not Mike]

On 2002-01-25 17:58, Anonymous wrote:

On 2002-01-23 21:13, Anonymous wrote:
I recently made the switch from pension consulting to insurance. The lack of billable hours is great and I enjoy working less hours while writing exams. However, the jobs are VERY different. Make sure you really understand what it is that you want out of your career in the long term. It may not be all that you expect once you get to insurance. I personally find it very boring. There are huge growth opportunities. I am now working for an excellent company if you want to be an insurance actuary. Unfortunately, I have no desire to stay in the insurance field. Back to pensions I go!


So you are saying that pension consulting job is more interesting than life insurance? I'm currently in life insurance and considering switching to pension, but I don't know if it's a good idea. I've never worked for a consulting firm. Any advice?


I'd consider health as well if I were you... I recently made the switch to health from life... I had interviewed for a few pension spots as well, but I'm VERY happy that I ended up in health, it just seems much more interesting than pension (unless all you do is FAS106)...