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campbell
03-22-2010, 09:31 PM
This came up in another thread when I said you could test for a certain trouble-shooting frame of mind. I had done aptitude testing at the Johnson O'Connor Research Foundation (http://jocrf.org) two year ago, and I had remembered a related aptitude: inductive reasoning.

It also didn't hurt that I had written an article on it.

So I went back to their Manhattan office today to check out my results again.

[they usually charge $10 for a reprint, but thy gave me it gratis because of the article I wrote]

So here's the list of tested items, by category and subitem:

Visual Perception:
Graphoria (clerical speed)

Divergent Thinking:
Ideaphoria (flow of ideas)
Foresight

Convergent Thinking:
Inductive Reasoning
Analytical Reasoning

Numerical:
Number Series
Number Facility

Spatial:
Structural Visualization
Wiggly Block
Paper Folding

Auditory:
Tonal Memory
Pitch Discrimination
Rythym Memory

Memory:
Memory for Design
Silograms (word learning)
Number Memory
Observation

Artistic Judgment:
Visual Designs I
Visual Designs II

Color Vision:
Red-Green Vision
Color Discrimination

Motor:
Finger Dexterity
Tweezer Dexterity
Grip, Left
Grip, Right

Personality:
Word Association [subjective or objective]

English Vocabulary

Math Vocabulary

Experimental Test: Writing Speed

The English/Math Vocabulary tests aren't aptitude tests in that you can actually study for those and improv your standing there.

The JOCRF claims for the aptitude tests, your percentile relative to your reference group [age groups] stay pretty constant from age 15 or so and older.

I had a few surprises in my results....well, they weren't too surprising once I thought about it a while. I sucked really bad on tweezer dexterity - 20th percentile [good thing I'm not a surgeon... well, I never would have made it anyway]. Kind of explains why my model cars were a mess and my soldering work was just plain nasty.

The structural visualization tests were interesting - wiggly block is a 3D puzzle [don't worry, it's not that complicated [ranging from 6 to 12 pieces]... but some people do get frustrated with it], and you're just timed to see how long it takes you to put it together. Paper folding is where you're shown diagrams of how a piece of paper is folded and where a hole punch is made, and you've got to determine where the holes are in the unfolded sheet.

I'll pull out a few words they have on structural visualization:

Structural visualization is the aptitude for picturing in your mind's eye the structure of three-dimensional forms.
....
Structural visualization can also be used in a more theoretical, less tangible way. For example, insurance actuaries, people who use mathematical techniques to determine insurance rates basd on statistical evidence, score high in this aptitude.


Unfortunately, you can't use their testing for hiring stuff, as they won't share the results with outside parties. I suppose you could ask people to do the testing and give you the results, but due to Duke v. Griggs, I doubt you could get away with it.

Still, it can be an interesting experience. I thought some of the tests were fun. The Observation test was kind of funny to me. It involved flipping from page to page, trying to figure out what changed between pages.

Jonas Grumby
03-22-2010, 09:43 PM
I'm not 100% sure what I should get from this post. Are you saying we can/should sign up for this test?

General Apathy
03-22-2010, 10:47 PM
I'm pretty good at those tests where you look at two pictures of a celebrity in People magazine and find out what is different between the pics

The Drunken Actuary
03-22-2010, 11:31 PM
This came up in another thread when I said you could test for a certain trouble-shooting frame of mind. I had done aptitude testing at the Johnson O'Connor Research Foundation (http://jocrf.org) two year ago, and I had remembered a related aptitude: inductive reasoning.

It also didn't hurt that I had written an article on it.

So I went back to their Manhattan office today to check out my results again.

[they usually charge $10 for a reprint, but thy gave me it gratis because of the article I wrote]

So here's the list of tested items, by category and subitem:

Visual Perception:
Graphoria (clerical speed)

Divergent Thinking:
Ideaphoria (flow of ideas)
Foresight

Convergent Thinking:
Inductive Reasoning
Analytical Reasoning

Numerical:
Number Series
Number Facility

Spatial:
Structural Visualization
Wiggly Block
Paper Folding

Auditory:
Tonal Memory
Pitch Discrimination
Rythym Memory

Memory:
Memory for Design
Silograms (word learning)
Number Memory
Observation

Artistic Judgment:
Visual Designs I
Visual Designs II

Color Vision:
Red-Green Vision
Color Discrimination

Motor:
Finger Dexterity
Tweezer Dexterity
Grip, Left
Grip, Right

Personality:
Word Association [subjective or objective]

English Vocabulary

Math Vocabulary

Experimental Test: Writing Speed

The English/Math Vocabulary tests aren't aptitude tests in that you can actually study for those and improv your standing there.

The JOCRF claims for the aptitude tests, your percentile relative to your reference group [age groups] stay pretty constant from age 15 or so and older.

I had a few surprises in my results....well, they weren't too surprising once I thought about it a while. I sucked really bad on tweezer dexterity - 20th percentile [good thing I'm not a surgeon... well, I never would have made it anyway]. Kind of explains why my model cars were a mess and my soldering work was just plain nasty.

The structural visualization tests were interesting - wiggly block is a 3D puzzle [don't worry, it's not that complicated [ranging from 6 to 12 pieces]... but some people do get frustrated with it], and you're just timed to see how long it takes you to put it together. Paper folding is where you're shown diagrams of how a piece of paper is folded and where a hole punch is made, and you've got to determine where the holes are in the unfolded sheet.

I'll pull out a few words they have on structural visualization:


Unfortunately, you can't use their testing for hiring stuff, as they won't share the results with outside parties. I suppose you could ask people to do the testing and give you the results, but due to Duke v. Griggs, I doubt you could get away with it.

Still, it can be an interesting experience. I thought some of the tests were fun. The Observation test was kind of funny to me. It involved flipping from page to page, trying to figure out what changed between pages.

Thanks for sharing.

campbell
03-23-2010, 04:32 AM
I don't have a point, necessarily.

Just following up from something in another thread, where I said I'd come back and put forward some info. That's all.

Travis
03-23-2010, 08:34 AM
Dang, $600? That seems a bit steep.

Inconceivable
03-23-2010, 08:45 AM
Give me $600 and I'll give you your results without any further testing:

You are a sucker!

Jagahatshi
04-17-2015, 01:44 PM
This came up in another thread when I said you could test for a certain trouble-shooting frame of mind. I had done aptitude testing at the Johnson O'Connor Research Foundation (http://jocrf.org) two years ago, and I had remembered a related aptitude: inductive reasoning.

It also didn't hurt that I had written an article on it.

So I went back to their Manhattan office today to check out my results again.



Thanks Mary. I read your article too (just found it randomly actually).

Do you know any others in the actuary profession who have taken the JOCRF aptitude tests?

I took them a few years back, and my aptitudes don't seem to match those suggested for the actuary profession. I'm currently an engineer (by profession & degree), but I was looking into the possibility of a career change. My aptitudes seem to better match engineering, so it's quite interesting to think about :confused:

campbell
04-17-2015, 08:50 PM
Thanks Mary. I read your article too (just found it randomly actually).

Do you know any others in the actuary profession who have taken the JOCRF aptitude tests?

I took them a few years back, and my aptitudes don't seem to match those suggested for the actuary profession. I'm currently an engineer (by profession & degree), but I was looking into the possibility of a career change. My aptitudes seem to better match engineering, so it's quite interesting to think about :confused:

I don't personally know of other actuaries who have done this

I Thought actuarial and engineering aptitudes were similar - could you tell me where the differences were?

also, i don't do strictly actuarial work currently, so I may not be be the best to measure by

Jagahatshi
04-21-2015, 12:32 PM
I Thought actuarial and engineering aptitudes were similar - could you tell me where the differences were?


They are very similar.

If you look at this pdf (link (http://www.jocrf.org/Understanding_Your_Aptitudes.pdf)) there are a few aptitude combinations that are different for engineers & actuaries.


Page 10: high in Structural Visualization
* low in Ideaphoria, with high graphoria: actuarial science
* low in Ideaphoria, low graphoria, low inductive reasoning: civil engineering / engineering technology
* high in Ideaphoria, high inductive reasoning: consulting engineer

I think, for my personal mixture of aptitudes, engineering is a "better fit" than the actuarial profession.

Jagahatshi
04-21-2015, 12:33 PM
Also, here's a guy who claims "Accounting and engineering are actually drastically different in the aptitudes used within each profession."

Not that I put much stock into that, especially since there aren't any explanations... ;)

Source. (http://www.reddit.com/r/Accounting/comments/2dsqtw/former_engineering_majors_who_switched_into/)

Loner
04-21-2015, 12:51 PM
Also, here's a guy who claims "Accounting and engineering are actually drastically different in the aptitudes used within each profession."

Not that I put much stock into that, especially since there aren't any explanations... ;)

Source. (http://www.reddit.com/r/Accounting/comments/2dsqtw/former_engineering_majors_who_switched_into/)

accounting<>actuarial work. We do a lot more design-type stuff and are thus closer to engineering. Though it's still another level to engineer imo. I can't tinker with machines for shit.
Now that I think about it, I'd have been a kickass accountant but I'm a pretty meh actudonk.

Jagahatshi
04-21-2015, 01:01 PM
Right. I forgot that thread was focused on accounting instead... much different.

Would be interesting to see the aptitudes of those in the Actuary profession, and also try to correlate that to their overall job fulfillment (happiness?). :wink:

campbell
04-21-2015, 02:58 PM
Also, here's a guy who claims "Accounting and engineering are actually drastically different in the aptitudes used within each profession."

Not that I put much stock into that, especially since there aren't any explanations... ;)

Source. (http://www.reddit.com/r/Accounting/comments/2dsqtw/former_engineering_majors_who_switched_into/)

Accounting is drastically different: it's low in structural visualization

Accounting (as opposed to finance - not the same) is very linear in its methods of thought. Also, you have to be high in graphoria for accounting, not so for all types of engineering