American Society of Pension Actuaries

[Anonymous]

Is the member and fellow designations from the ASPA well-known in the actuary community? Do employers accept these designations like the SOA/CAS designations?

I am pursuing an Actuarial career. I would like to work in the pension area. I would pursue ASPA designation, however, everyone I know talks about SOA/CAS designation.

In the actuarial community, does it matter whether a designation is received from ASPA or SOA/CAS? Especially, if you are planning to specialize in pensions. I know some employers want you to pass at least one exam before they will hire you. Does this apply to the ASPA.

[American Psycho]

You have invoked the nameless one.

We will all have to listen to his rant.

His name is Andy Lang. I only mention that because you are probably new to this forum.

FWIW, ASPA designations are not well respected by major pension consulting firms. Smaller practices attached to insurance brokerage are more welcoming of the ASPA credentials. Andy will explain why.

Good luck.

[Darth Tater]

The persons mentioned at the begining of this post are known as fake-tuaries. I would suggest that you avoid them at all costs. Suck it up and take te soa/cas exams and make a real salary and get real respect.

Is there anything else to say?

(This is a question that really needs no answer!)

[JMO]

When ERISA was first on the drawing boards, ASPA folks did a far better job of lobbying that the traditional actuarial community (SOA, AAA). So there's a certain amount of jealousy involved.

ASPA does tend to be more for small pension plans. Admittedly, their actuarial rigor was not initially up to SOA standards, but they have made a lot of progress in terms of their educational process. The EA designation has changed things a lot, too. AAA now recognizes EA designation and makes membership available to EAs who have NO other actuarial credentials.

I predict that the day will come when ASPA merges with the SOA. The Conference of Consulting actuaries will probably merge first, and my predictions that it would happen haven't yet come to pass.

[Smurf]

Look at the job postings in this website. If you want to do this type of work, then you only need to take the ASPA exams. Otherwise, be an EA and or FSA.


http://www.benefitslink.com/

[Andy Lang]

What you guys havn't said is that

1. it was ASPA folks who created huge DB tax shelters fo rich people--AND,

2. it was their excesses that Congress enacted so many laws to prevent that ultimately harmed the larger legitimate DB pension plans, beginnbging their downward spiral, and

3. The SOA welcomed them in when they lobbied themselves in to be Enrolled Actuaries in 1974, despite the protestations by FSAs, and

4, They began back in my old firm, The NY Life Insurance Company around 1964 and were Life insurance agents.

Now see if you can figure out why the SOA welcomed them in rather than saying to the government that they were not legitimate actuaries?

Would the AMA welcome in Chiropracters?

How about Chiropracters wanting to do heart surgery?

And if they did, would you go to one if you had a heart problem?

The Enrolled Actuaries Meetings in Washington DC evety years--2.5 days of intense meetings of several thousand actuaries are heavily peopled by ASPA people and small pension plans actuaries and far less attended by large plan actuaries from the handful of large actuarial/management consulting firms that do virtually all large DB pension plans--except as teachers.

What do these large plan actuaries teach?

How about how to screw plan participants on behalf of your client, by putting in Cash Balance pension plans, which often convert the plan for a final pay pension plan to a career pay one, cutting benefits in the long term by at least 40% for oyung fpolks and also getting rid of early retirement subsidies for the older ones--the so-called 'dead wood'.

Check out who the actuaries are that were 'caught on tape' in the IBM dissident employee website, http://www.cashpensions.com.

To mention just one mentioned there, Gary Hellenbeck, for example, at Towers Perrin--why he was then the Chief Actuary.

At Towers, that was one of the most important senior level positions you can have and he doesnt go around like a rogue and teach other actuaries to do cash balance plans without full support of the top folks at Towers--part of the New Business Plan--does he?

[Homer]

On 2002-02-05 18:29, Andy Lang wrote:
How about how to screw plan participants on behalf of your client, by putting in Cash Balance pension plans, which often convert the plan for a final pay pension plan to a career pay one, cutting benefits in the long term by at least 40% for oyung fpolks and also getting rid of early retirement subsidies for the older ones--the so-called 'dead wood'.

Mmmmm ... oyung fpolks.

[ch]

Homer - LOL!