Questions about becoming an Actuary

[J]

Hello,
I graduated about three years ago and am in need of a career change. I wrote and passed Exam 1 in Nov01. I would like to ask the following questions.
1.) What type of company i.e. insurance, consulting, etc. would offer the best "sampling" of the different Actuarial specialties i.e. Life/Health, Pensions, Property/Casualty?
2.) I understand that Actuaries need to keep abreast of current issues. Which periodicals/resources are beneficial for these purposes? Which references might be used in the Property Casualty side?
3.) Do the exams get increasingly difficult? Which exams seem to be the most difficult to pass?
4.) How much "company paid" study time can an entry level Actuary expect? Does this usually depend on the exam?
5.) I have heard that insurance companies tend to offer more support in passing exams than consulting firms. Can anyone relate his/her experience/opinion on this issue?
6.) Do some companies tend to "separate" their Actuaries if the said employee fails an exam say 1, 2, 3, times? Has anyone had any expierince with this?

[Don Quijote]

1. A old large multiline mutual with a rotation program. Too bad none of those exist anymore. Most companies (both insurance and consulting) are more specialized even at the entry levels.
2. Publications from the Society of Actuaries (old issues available on-line) are good sources to get a lead on new topics, but detailed current issue research you will have to dig for yourself. Some mathematical research gets published in the North American Actuarial Journal, and D&T puts out a quarterly publication summarizing all the big changes in law, regs, accounting liturature, etc.
3. Yes. I think they are more difficult to pass because the earlier exams weed out the weaker candidates, and the pass rate doesn´t go up. It´s like playing the Rams instead of the Lions. You can still win, but you have to work harder.
4. Don´t know (at my little company, zero)
5. "Support" is a funny word. If you mean that its easier to take your study time, probably. If you mean you are likely to have another student around taking the same exam to talk to, probably. If you mean financial incentives, probably not.
6. Yep. We didn´t call it "separating" though. We called it getting fired.

[Maine-iac]

1.) What type of company i.e. insurance, consulting, etc. would offer the best "sampling" of the different Actuarial specialties i.e. Life/Health, Pensions, Property/Casualty?

Look for a larger company with a rotation program. It won't cover all the bases, but that is your best bet if your concern is the widest view. (It also has drawbacks, so check out some of the "large vs. small company" threads on this board.)

2.) I understand that Actuaries need to keep abreast of current issues. Which periodicals/resources are beneficial for these purposes? Which references might be used in the Property Casualty side?
- for actuarial issues, try Contigencies, which is written for an audience knowledgeable about insurance, but not necessarily with actuarial training on a given topic. Good for looking at actuarial topics you are not particularly familiar with, and covers all branches.
- for general insurance issues, The National Underwriter (they publish a life and health edition and a P&C edition) They cover a lot, though they are not quite as good as they once were. They are very pro-industry, so note the bias when reading.
Best's review is also worthwhile.
- keep abreast of the general business climate via WSJ, Forbes, Fortune, etc.

All of this may be easier said than done while studying for exams.

3.) Do the exams get increasingly difficult? Which exams seem to be the most difficult to pass?

Entirely dependent on the person. All exams are difficult. 1 - 4 are entirely different from the upper exams. Very mathematical. Speed of computation and knowing the proper formula at the drop of a hat is essential.
Upper exams more insurance oriented and less mathematical, though there are always computations of some sort. You must master vast amounts of detail, produce outline type essays very rapidly, and struggle with some very poorly written papers (although not all are bad.) The volume of material on a single exam can be daunting. Most people favor one type of exam over the other. I personally prefer the upper exams, but many prefer the mathematical exams. All are difficult.

4.) How much "company paid" study time can an entry level Actuary expect? Does this usually depend on the exam?

Usually depends on the length of the exam. It can vary by company, but one rule of thumb is 30 hours per hour of exam. Ask students already in companies that your are considering how easy it is to actually take the hours you are "given". That varies a lot by company as well.


5.) I have heard that insurance companies tend to offer more support in passing exams than consulting firms. Can anyone relate his/her experience/opinion on this issue?

I've only worked for insurers, and most were pretty supportive. Can't speak for consultants, though it seems to vary more from shop to shop from what I've heard.

6.) Do some companies tend to "separate" their Actuaries if the said employee fails an exam say 1, 2, 3, times? Has anyone had any expierince with this?

Yes, especially larger companies with more formal student programs. Often you can find a non-actuarial postion within the company when "separated" if your non-exam work was good and you are interested in insurance. Smaller companies tend to be more flexible about passing speed, but also a little less generous with study perks. There are exceptions to these generalizations, so you have to ask to have the policy spelled out.

[Me]

My 2 cents:
1)Occasionally you can find an insurance company with a rotation program to different lines. Mostly, others assume you know what area you are interested in ahead of time (most people don't).
2) Abreast of current issues? Not all that necessary. Maybe beneficial but not necessary.
3) Yes, I would say they generally get harder though different people have sticking points at different exams.
4) At an insurance company with a decent study program you should get about 100 hours for exams 3 & 4. This usually increases a bit as the length of the exams goes up. See the exam-cyberchat section for surveys on study programs and other useful info.
5) I would say you are likely to get more study hours (and actually get to take them, avoid overtime, etc) at an insurance company. The raises/bonuses are not quite as good.
6) Some will start by not paying for your exams and not giving you study time (kick you out of the "student program" until you start passing again). Eventually they would probably ask you to take a different position or leave entirely.

[minnie SNOW dah]

Regarding exams getting more difficult as you go through. It VERY MUCH depends on your personal situation. If you decide to start having kids, for example, part way through, it's going to get very much more difficult to get good study time in. If your personal circumstances are about the same throughout, you may well find it a bit easier as you get a ways into it - I think it takes a while to get into the groove of studying, understand what they want, time commitment needed, etc. And it varies alot by the individual.

[J]

I would like to extend my thanks to those who have provided the above responses. In addition, I would like to thank(in advance) those who have any input. Your efforts are sincerely appreciated.
J

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Wait, don't leave! I want to add some comments!
1. Been answered to my satisfaction already. Even if there is a rotation program, the better you are, the less likely you get rotated by your boss, since it will be hard to replace you. And if your boss wants you to rotate, the receiving-end actuary is likely to be suspicious. A mature group of managers would be able to handle this issue. Good luck in finding them!
2. Contingencies, The Actuary, The Actuarial Digest are good enough for now. All the good, useful stuff is kept from the public. This isn't Academia, where you're lauded for your intellect when you show off a new reserve formula. This is business. The competition cannot be provided such tools.
3. Yes. On average. You get the occasional case where someone can pass Course 4, but get stuck on Course 2. Check the passing percentages.
4. Expect anywhere from 0 to 125 hours per exam. Choose the company with your expected minimum. Ask for more money from those below your standard. Use your hours and don't budge from your schedule. Budge once, and they'll have you marked. Do not budge from your home hours, either.
5. By and large, insurance companies offer more support. By and large, consulting companies are contractors. When work comes in, it gets done or they don't get paid. Guess who has to work or not get paid? Also, some consultants charge based on the experience/exams-passed of the person doing the work, so why hire someone with less experience/exams-passed?
6. When a student becomes de-classified, the ex-student could be asked to leave. If not immediately, then at the next R.I.F. In other words, those non-student jobs will be first to go. Insure against this by being one of the better analysts. I've seen co-workers, from top-tier schools (hired because of the degree from this school I might add), unable to pass a single exam and go on to become valued members of the company. Or other companies.

[Healey]

Don't do it. The exams take up your entire life over the period of a decade or so -- I am NOT exaggerating. Find something else to do. By the time you reach FSA, you could have been finished with med school, internship, and most of a residency. If you do decide to do it, remember in 10 years that I told you not to.
This is not a dress rehearsal. Do not waste your life studying for these inane exams. The rewards from passing them are greatly overblown.

[Incredible Hulctuary]

On 2002-03-09 15:17, Healey wrote:
Don't do it. The exams take up your entire life over the period of a decade or so -- I am NOT exaggerating. Find something else to do. By the time you reach FSA, you could have been finished with med school, internship, and most of a residency. If you do decide to do it, remember in 10 years that I told you not to.
This is not a dress rehearsal. Do not waste your life studying for these inane exams. The rewards from passing them are greatly overblown.


Depends on the type of career he/she's changing from. I also have 1 exam and am considering doing more and becoming an actuary because it isn't much worse than what I do now. I am a computer programmer, and in the IT industry it is typical to work 50-60 hours a week. I also have to carry a pager 24/7 for a week each month. In addition to that, on my own time I have to teach myself new programming languages and techniques and do other industry related reading in order to not become a dinosaur. And that additional learning continues for a lifetime, not just 5-10 years. So when you're coming from where I am, doing exams isn't so bad after all.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: techguy on 2002-03-11 09:22 ]</font>

[Healey]

[quote]
On 2002-03-09 23:14, techguy wrote:
So when you're coming from where I am, doing exams isn't so bad after all.

Until you try it.

[Healey]

They don't seem bad until you try them. Trust me on this one. I've taken all of them.

[Incredible Hulctuary]

On 2002-03-10 22:23, Healey wrote:
They don't seem bad until you try them. Trust me on this one. I've taken all of them.


How much worse is it than working 50-60 hours a week, carrying a pager 24/7, studying new things on your own time another 10 hours/week, getting laid off when the industry goes into the "bust" part of its boom and bust cycle, and realizing that the technology that you spent the last 5 years mastering is now obsolete?

[Incredible Hulctuary]

On 2002-03-10 22:23, Healey wrote:
They don't seem bad until you try them. Trust me on this one. I've taken all of them.


I don't doubt that they're bad. The question is how much worse is it, if any, than what I already have to do in my current field.

Don't forget I've already tasted them already. I passed the 100 and 110 with just two weeks of study. But I realize the rest won't be so easy, so I plan to start studying in April for the November sitting of course 2.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: techguy on 2002-03-11 09:30 ]</font>

[Dr T Non-Fan]

The exams are only as bad as the amount of pressure you put on yourself.

[42]

With the changes that they've made to the exam structure over the past 2 decades, the exams are now so EEEEEEASY! Of course, back in the old days, when we used to have to make our own #2 pencils, and couldn't use calculators, and blah blah blah, THEN the exams we tough. :grin:

[Healey]

My mom taught me to listen to people with experience since there isn't enough time in one life to make your own mistakes. Don't say you weren't warned. Good luck.

[Incredible Hulctuary]

On 2002-03-11 22:05, Healey wrote:
My mom taught me to listen to people with experience since there isn't enough time in one life to make your own mistakes. Don't say you weren't warned. Good luck.


Warning considered. I'll still go ahead with it, then if I get sick of it I'll go back to programming.

[Brains&Beauty]

I went through the exams as well. I don't have any regrets.

If I had been in a different financial position when I was starting out, I probably would have gone to a medical school instead. But the actuarial profession gave me the ability to:

1) have my school (undergrad and grad) paid for by scholarships

2) get plenty of job offers upon graduation

3) study and get paid for it while working (although I do have to admit it wasn't easy)

4) have numerous choices in what I could to do within the profession

5) work with some of the brightest people in the world (and believe me, this point is frequently underestimated)

6) not to worry about my bills, my retirement planning, and how I would pay for my mext vacation to Europe

7) enjoy myself


Go for it. It's worth the trouble. And ten years is not that much to invest (although it shouldn't take you that long if you are determined enough...maybe more like 7). Otherwise, what would you do with these ten years? - party and drink? - that's boring.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Brains&Beauty on 2002-03-15 11:33 ]</font>

[Darth Tater]

If you really have brains and beauty, why bother with anything else? :wink:

[Incredible Hulctuary]

On 2002-03-15 12:26, ZeroVektor wrote:
If you really have brains and beauty, why bother with anything else? :wink:


Maybe because the brains ain't worth anything unless you actually do the work to put it to productive use?

[Packet_Storm]

I was planing on being a doctor but dealing with needles was the bad part, it was all the grief. I helped out at a few places and couldn't handle it. It was just to emotional for me to see mothers cry for their dead children.

I like calculation and with this degree I don't have to goto grad school. I am fed up with school as it is. Kissing A** to the instructors and dealing with "Man I got so wasted last night" drama. I figured that I could do a job which I would not mind doing m-f and maybe a few sat and get paid adequately for my time.

Example: An instructor hit a student and slammed her head into a wall (leaving a hole) and still teaches class. The instructor was not protecting her life, just thought the student was stupid. I understand that people are petty and just plain crazy. I have decided to get paid for the trouble of dealing with them. I understand I won't be Trump rich but I will have a car that work and live in a decent part of town. I won't have a drug dealer living across the alley from me.

Being the Numbers Guru and spending time, studing for some test is not as bad as going to school IMHO.

[Wag, the Dog]

Yep, that's the same kind of unbridled enthusiasm with which I entered the profession.

[Intents]

Consulting Companies are usually very flat organizations. That means there are not many layers between contract signers and workers. As a result, getting work done becomes highly leveraged. At the same time, the powers that be know they need successors. In my experience, you will see a wide variety of exam support in consulting companies that appears to be more correlated to your perceived consultant potential than your technical ability.

[Kairn]

I totally agree with Intents. His/her comments reflect exactly what I see at my own consulting firm. The senior actuaries will need replacement sooner or later and if you've goot good communication skills, a good business mind, can sell yourself / firm / skills, are bright, etc, you will get good support, that's guarantee. You need to be more than just bright and technical. In insurance companies, this is slowly changing, but you don't need as good communication skills.

[neofan]

I went through the exams as well. I don't have any regrets.

If I had been in a different financial position when I was starting out, I probably would have gone to a medical school instead. &lt;font size=-1&gt;[ This Message was edited by: Brains&amp;Beauty on 2002-03-15 11:33 ]&lt;/font&gt;

Man, trust me, you don't want to come into health (doctors, pharmacists, optometrists, chiropractors, etc) and allied health fields. I got a 2-yr degree in an allied health fields and thought of going into O.D (Doctor of Optometry), after working with doctors for just 6 months, I quickly called off the plan. Working with the public, you deal with all kinds of stupidity/rudeness/annoyance from people, the older you get, the harder it is to handle. Even when the actuary exams are difficult, I tried very hard to pass one and endured the stress, knowing one day it'll be over, thankfully I did this May finally. Think again if you feel doctors are over-paid, they're not, they earn that money. BTW, I work with supervisor and coworkers whom I get along with really well, consider this the best case scenario, and my job was rated #25 at career almanac.

Believe me, I'm not anti-social nor schizophrenic, over time it just gets old. The worst part is (I can speak for IT as well), once you get over 40, they'll try to get rid of you, regardless of your credentials.