18 game season is a done deal

[General Apathy]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5623441&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines

Bill Polian says the 18-game NFL season is a done deal.

During Monday night's weekly radio show, the Indianapolis Colts team president called it a "fait accompli" and said the debate is over. Polian is a member of the league's competition committee and has worked in the league office.

I'm for it. I hate the preseason

[Guerilla poster]

Dumb.

[MY$.02]

itll lower the quality of the national football league. strike is coming thats what they need to get worked out

[Mick Fan]

itll lower the quality of the national football league. strike is coming thats what they need to get worked out

Agreed.

[Get Busy Livin']

itll lower the quality of the national football league.Agreed.
I don't follow. Because of the greater likelihood of injuries? Or more tired players?

[the BS method]

measure the health and longevity of players that were on poor performing teams vs those that were on successful playoff teams throughout their career.

see if there's any statistical truth to your statement.

i suspect there is none

[keyser soze]

I don't follow. Because of the greater likelihood of injuries? Or more tired players?

More shitty games. Who wants to see the Browns, Rams, or Lions play two extra games? Who wants to see the Colts or Steelers B-teams play a couple of extra games?

[ADoubleDot]

Sigh. Most popular league in america. Sounds broke, better fix it.

Sent from my DRUID using the Schwartz

[General Apathy]

itll lower the quality of the national football league. strike is coming thats what they need to get worked out

It's a lockout...

[jets fan]

I love football as much as anyone and I don't want 18 games. Injuries are the issue - the season length is fine right where it is...

[Force of Interest]

I don't follow. Because of the greater likelihood of injuries? Or more tired players?
Both. These guys are dead in the postseason, now you add 2 more stupid games for no reason but to make more money off these guys' health. They already rob people blind in the preseason.

[SirVLCIV]

measure the health and longevity of players that were on poor performing teams vs those that were on successful playoff teams throughout their career.

see if there's any statistical truth to your statement.

i suspect there is none

Hmm, if I have time on my weekends I'll do it. I already have a database of players, main position, years of activity. All I have to do is add in the record of their teams (and # of postseason games) and we can start playing around.

I'll even look around www.pro-football-reference.com to see if I can pull in other relevant data (# of snaps for linemen, etc.).

[SirVLCIV]

Actually, I'll just replace my database with this: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/dbindex.htm

[Ginormous76]

This is so stupid. If this is a done deal, there's no way the 2011 season isn't a lockout.

[Kool-Aid Man]

Was the increase from 14 games to 16 games also really stupid? I'm not sure I like the increase to 18, but I don't know how you determine the optimal length for a pro football regular season.

In other words, if the NFL had just been invented, and you needed to decide how many games there should be in a season, would you necessarily say 16?

[Force of Interest]

Was the increase from 14 games to 16 games also really stupid? I'm not sure I like the increase to 18, but I don't know how you determine the optimal length for a pro football regular season.

In other words, if the NFL had just been invented, and you needed to decide how many games there should be in a season, would you necessarily say 16?
No i'd pick less. 14 seems like a good length to me

[Kool-Aid Man]

No i'd pick less. 14 seems like a good length to me
Based on what?

[Darkness Falls]

Was the increase from 14 games to 16 games also really stupid? I'm not sure I like the increase to 18, but I don't know how you determine the optimal length for a pro football regular season.

In other words, if the NFL had just been invented, and you needed to decide how many games there should be in a season, would you necessarily say 16?

16 games works wonderfully scheduling wise though ... it'll be hard to balance 18

[jets fan]

Was the increase from 14 games to 16 games also really stupid? I'm not sure I like the increase to 18, but I don't know how you determine the optimal length for a pro football regular season.

In other words, if the NFL had just been invented, and you needed to decide how many games there should be in a season, would you necessarily say 16?

I say that 16 is the right length based on over 30 years worth of injury evidence from that length of season. Medical care has improved during that time, but the injuries are still there and will always be there. The NFLPA will rightfully not agree to this. And as far as the labor negotiations go in general, there are enough problems already without throwing this into the mix.

[Cynical Realist]

I don't think going from 14 to 16 was bad, but going from 12 to 14 was insane.

[Guerilla poster]

I am usually against increase the length of a season. I think the NBA should cut the schedule by about 20 games. Baseball is probably okay at 162. Hockey seems way to many games too.

[Guerilla poster]

Plus if they increase to 18 means I will have to waste wonderful summer weather, trying to figure out my FF draft.

[tenthring]

measure the health and longevity of players that were on poor performing teams vs those that were on successful playoff teams throughout their career.

see if there's any statistical truth to your statement.

i suspect there is none

successful playoff teams are more likely to be healthy because teams that sustain lots of injuries tend not to make it to the playoffs

[tenthring]

16 is was better for scheduling. 16 games, 32 teams, its very easy.

fans don't want 18 games. they want to stop paying full price for pre-season games.

[Han Solo]

Negotiating ploy by the owners?

As in "If we give up 18 game season, you (the players) will give up __________?"

[jets fan]

Negotiating ploy by the owners?

As in "If we give up 18 game season, you (the players) will give up __________?"

That's what I'm thinking - whether it works or not is a whole different issue...

[lipman]

Both. These guys are dead in the postseason, now you add 2 more stupid games for no reason but to make more money off these guys' health. They already rob people blind in the preseason.

So you are saying they are robbing people blind in the preseason, but you don't want them to replace those meaningless games with actual games? :shrug:

[lipman]

Negotiating ploy by the owners?

As in "If we give up 18 game season, you (the players) will give up __________?"


How much will this bump up TV revenue? 10% seems like a reasonable number, as the networks are getting 12.5% more games.
So that is 10% more TV money to get split. It might help the owners say you are going from 56% of revenue to 53% of revenue, but your total salaries will be 3% higher...

[the BS method]

successful playoff teams are more likely to be healthy because teams that sustain lots of injuries tend not to make it to the playoffs

maybe. that's still just conjecture, though.

this fan is looking forward to an extra two weeks of football.

august is hell

[Goldenhands]

How much you want to bet that if they cut OTAs then Peyton Manning will be holding "voluntary" practices to get his reps in with his receivers. If you want thrown to during the season then you're more than welcome to show up. If you don't show up to the voluntary practices he'll voluntarily not throw to you.

[Whiskey]

16 is was better for scheduling. 16 games, 32 teams, its very easy.

fans don't want 18 games. they want to stop paying full price for pre-season games.

Players want to get remove two of the preseason games. As a season ticket holder, if I had to choose between 8 real + 2 preseason and 9 real + 1 preseason for the same price, I am going to go with the 18 game regular season hands down. I see this as a benefit to the season ticket holders. :shrug:

[Ginormous76]

So you are saying they are robbing people blind in the preseason, but you don't want them to replace those meaningless games with actual games? :shrug:

They aren't meaningless. The preseason needs three games to figure out the final roster. Since three is an odd number, four is good. Two games is too few.

[Han Solo]

Players want to get remove two of the preseason games. As a season ticket holder, if I had to choose between 8 real + 2 preseason and 9 real + 1 preseason for the same price, I am going to go with the 18 game regular season hands down. I see this as a benefit to the season ticket holders. :shrug:But will the additional regular season game at the end of the year contain approximately the same talent level/quality of play as the dropped preseason game because of injuries/sitting players due to clinched playoffs/etc ?

[JUICE]

Greed greed greed, profit as the new god *sigh* Few really understand the implications of this move. Polian is one, here is more from the article:

"I think that the owners, and principally the commissioner, have decided that it's the way to go, and so the debate, such as it was, is over," Polian said. "I've heard recently, and I'm sorry that this didn't get more coverage earlier, some really, really interesting commentary on it. ... I wish some of that dialogue had taken place earlier."

Officially, nothing has changed.

League owners and NFL commissioner Roger Goodell have expressed support for cutting the preseason schedule from four games to two and expanding the regular-season schedule from 16 to 18. But the format change hasn't been approved by either the owners or the NFL Players Association.

Polian believes that is just a formality, although the two sides are trying to work out a new collective bargaining agreement before the current deal expires in March. The sides resume labor talks Tuesday in Washington.

A caller asked Polian how close the league was to expanding to 18 games and how the Colts would respond to fewer preseason games, trimming the number of opportunities players would have to win roster spots.

Polian said: "The short answer is that it's a fait accompli, I'm afraid, and we're going to have to find ways to get those evaluative experiences. We're not going to sit back and say, 'Oh oh, 18 games. Now we're going to become a veteran team.' That's not going to work. And it's not the way we want to play."

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said the league would not respond to Polian's comments.

Polian is mapping out contingency plans.

One solution under consideration is holding combined practices or controlled scrimmages with nearby teams to give players more chances to impress the evaluators. Those discussions already are being held internally, Polian said.

"In a two-game preseason, you're going to have to play the regulars a half and a half. And that's going to take a full game away, essentially a full game away from the rookies who are trying to make the team," he said. "So how do you deal with that? Well you've got to set up evaluative experiences for them in other venues. And I'm hoping that we can get enough camp time to be able to go against the Bears, let's say, or go against the Bengals in a controlled situation. Perhaps the Rams, people nearby."

Many Colts players, including four-time league MVP Peyton Manning and four-time Pro Bowl center Jeff Saturday have argued that an 18-game season could be detrimental to the undrafted rookies -- like Saturday once was -- who are trying to make the team.

Indianapolis has been among the league's best at finding, and cultivating, overlooked talent. In Sunday's victory over Denver, undrafted rookie Jeff Linkenbach made his first NFL start at left tackle, protecting Manning's blind side, and undrafted rookie Blair White caught a TD pass.

The other concern would be injuries and roster sizes.

Many players believe an increase in injuries would shorten more careers. Coaches such as Jim Caldwell have said they likely would argue for larger rosters, too.

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.


Do guys like Tom Brady and Doug Flutie ever impress in camp and make the roster under this new scenario?? Or is the NFL going to become a FEM-like collection of prototypical 3-4 yr college players drafted in rounds 1-4? Might as well just shorten the draft, too, Goodell....

[JUICE]

The next move is to add 2 playoff teams from each conference, eliminate the byes, for a total of 4 more playoff games.

You read it here first...

$$$ Money, money, money, moooo-neeeey.... mon-ey $$$$

[Whiskey]

But will the additional regular season game at the end of the year contain approximately the same talent level/quality of play as the dropped preseason game because of injuries/sitting players due to clinched playoffs/etc ?

Those two games will be better than the preseason games. Guarantee you that. Even if your team is only playing for something a quarter of the time, it will be much more entertaining.

[Big Pete]

"In a two-game preseason, you're going to have to play the regulars a half and a half. And that's going to take a full game away, essentially a full game away from the rookies who are trying to make the team," he said. "So how do you deal with that? Well you've got to set up evaluative experiences for them in other venues. And I'm hoping that we can get enough camp time to be able to go against the Bears, let's say, or go against the Bengals in a controlled situation. Perhaps the Rams, people nearby."

So the plan will be to eliminate two official preseason games and add in an unofficial preseason game or two? How will ticket prices to the 'controlled situations' compare to tickets for official preseason and regular season games?

[vito]

So you are saying they are robbing people blind in the preseason, but you don't want them to replace those meaningless games with actual games? :shrug:
Could they not keep the number of games as is and significantly reduce preseason ticket prices?

[vito]

In response, the players union should demand:

1. shorter pre-season
2. increase in active roster by 12.5%
3. reduction in required # of years for full pension

ETA
4. all player salaries increased by 12.5%

[Whiskey]

Could they not keep the number of games as is and significantly reduce preseason ticket prices?

:lol: i cannot see the owners agreeing to that at all. Unless of course they just increase regular season more so that their take from ticket sales are the same.

[vito]

Players want to get remove two of the preseason games. As a season ticket holder, if I had to choose between 8 real + 2 preseason and 9 real + 1 preseason for the same price, I am going to go with the 18 game regular season hands down. I see this as a benefit to the season ticket holders. :shrug:
Except there could be an increased probability of teams having their playoff position determined earlier. In those extra two games, there's a chance the starters will be rested, which makes them only marginally better than pre-season games.

Oops, ninja'd

[vito]

:lol: i cannot see the owners agreeing to that at all. Unless of course they just increase regular season more so that their take from ticket sales are the same.
Sounds like a good idea. Very marginal increase to season ticket holders and half-price pre-season tickets. When you consider food and other merchandising, it could work.

[Cynical Realist]

I heard the driving force behind the expansion was Mercury Morris and the 1972 Dolphins. Pats proved with only 16 Regular Season games someone could almost run the table.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

18 games will be tough to schedule for parity, unless they go to four 8-team divisions, with 14 divisional games (that should weed out the wheat from the chaff pretty clearly), plus two games in same conference's other division (1's and 4's play each other, 2's and 3's play each other, 5/7 play each other, 6/8 play each other), and one from each of the other conferences' divisions (rotation).

Two division champions, four wild cards from each conference?

When will season start and end? Presidents' Day weekend will be Super Bowl Weekend if season starts as it does now.
Two bye weeks per team? That means 20 weeks of regular season.
So, start Labor Day weekend;
End third weekend in January,
Wildcard weekend,
Divisional weekend,
Championship weekend,
Bye,
Super Bowl third weekend in February.

[Not Mike]

Scheduling is no issue. All they have to do is have 1/2 play 1/2 and 3/4 play 3/4 in other conference divisions (instead of 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4). There's your two extra games. Other ways to do it as well, but this seems to be the easiest way.

Still a stupid idea. But credit Goodell for creating this strawman that "fans want it" without really asking the fans.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Still a stupid idea. But credit Goodell for creating this strawman that "fans want it" without really asking the fans.
Fans want it = "fans would rather see two regular season games in place of two pre-season games." If not, find me a fan who prefers now to this one alternative.

Yes, it excludes the possibility of other alternatives. Just drop two preseason games, for example.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Scheduling is no issue. All they have to do is have 1/2 play 1/2 and 3/4 play 3/4 in other conference divisions (instead of 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4). There's your two extra games. Other ways to do it as well, but this seems to be the easiest way.

My concern is that two more non-division games dilutes the importance of the division games. A 6-12 team could theoretically be a division champion. Yeah, it's just as bad now, with a possibly 6-10 team. Going further from relevance should not be the right direction.

[keyser soze]

maybe. that's still just conjecture, though.

this fan is looking forward to an extra two weeks of football.

august is hell

Hate to burst your bubble, but they would probably add the two weeks on the back end of the schedule. So if they cut pre-season to 2 games, the season would end at the same time. If not, you'd have a late February Super Bowl.

[Kool-Aid Man]

My concern is that two more non-division games dilutes the importance of the division games. A 6-12 team could theoretically be a division champion. Yeah, it's just as bad now, with a possibly 6-10 team. Going further from relevance should not be the right direction.
A 3-13 team could be a division champion, if all four teams lose every single out of division game and they all split against each other.

[Whiskey]

Except there could be an increased probability of teams having their playoff position determined earlier. In those extra two games, there's a chance the starters will be rested, which makes them only marginally better than pre-season games.

Oops, ninja'd

Yeah, but that might happen. Still makes those games no worse than preseason and possibly better.

[Blue Eyes White Dragon]

Frankly I don't like bye weeks. It mucks up fantasy fball. But I heard that the 18 game schedule would include an extra bye week so players can rest. So that really extends the season by 3 weeks (3 more weeks of tv revenue). 18 games = 20 week season with 2 bye weeks per team.

[Blue Eyes White Dragon]

How much will this bump up TV revenue? 10% seems like a reasonable number, as the networks are getting 12.5% more games.
So that is 10% more TV money to get split. It might help the owners say you are going from 56% of revenue to 53% of revenue, but your total salaries will be 3% higher...

Networks don't show every teams games. Season now is 16 games which is 17 weeks plus 4 weeks of playoffs for a total of 21 weeks. Adding 2 games plus another bye week gives 24 weeks of TV coverage (where they pick interesting games). That's 14% more tv coverage (w/o extra bye then 23/21 is 9.5% more). Although playoffs and superbowl have higher ratings so adding games not exactly proportional.

[Whiskey]

Frankly I don't like bye weeks. It mucks up fantasy fball. But I heard that the 18 game schedule would include an extra bye week so players can rest. So that really extends the season by 3 weeks (3 more weeks of tv revenue). 18 games = 20 week season with 2 bye weeks per team.
:redcard:

[Force of Interest]

So you are saying they are robbing people blind in the preseason, but you don't want them to replace those meaningless games with actual games? :shrug:
I'm saying if they are already making enough money from tix sales off these guys (yes i know there would be a huge difference with the how much they could make for televising 2 more real games) then lets preserve their health a little better so I dont have to see 3rd and 4th stringers deciding the super bowl.

I don't really care that much. I'm coming off like I do. I just think this game is super violent, guys get hurt every week, its annoying to watch clowns like John Kuhn run the ball. I'd prefer they keep it to 16 games.

[Force of Interest]

Based on what?

Based on my extensive research.

I think 14 is a good balance of deciding the teams that should make the playoffs and keeping the players fresh.

Obviously they would never decrease the season length.

[bfore13]

Networks don't show every teams games.Not nationally but every game is covered by the networks and shown locally (unless blacked out) and on The Ticket.

[A Student]

The next move is to add 2 playoff teams from each conference, eliminate the byes, for a total of 4 more playoff games.

You read it here first...

$$$ Money, money, money, moooo-neeeey.... mon-ey $$$$

I was thinking that moving to 8 teams/conf making playoffs would be a logical step, but I would hate to see it. Having the bye week is a huge benefit, and makes teams want to play for the second seed even if they can't get the first seed. So eliminating the bye's would make even more regular season games meaningless, and make it more likely that the best team during the regular season gets upset in the playoffs.

[Blue Eyes White Dragon]

Not nationally but every game is covered by the networks and shown locally (unless blacked out) and on The Ticket.

What percentage of local games are blacked out? Anyway, local broadcasting shows more than local only games. The bigger more highly rated games are Sunday night football and Monday night football plus a couple of other featured non-local games. Point is, regular season is now 17 weeks long followed by 4 weeks of more highly rated playoff games. They either add two more games or two more games plus another bye week so players can rest during the longer season and then they get 19 +4 or 20 +4 weeks for the entire season. TV revenue would be based on these numbers, not 18/16.

[General Apathy]

Giants Schedule:
NFC East 6
AFC South 4
NFC North 4
Carolina, SEA

Philly Schedule
NFC East 6
AFC South 4
NFC North 4
SF, ATL

With an 18 game schedule the two non-common opponents would be replaced by a full division ensuring each team plays the same schedule. Right?

[Blue Eyes White Dragon]

With an 18 game schedule the two non-common opponents would be replaced by a full division ensuring each team plays the same schedule. Right?
That might destroy the coin flip theory. Teams missing the playoffs last year won't get a better chance next year. "Parity" takes a hit.

[jets fan]

Polian is now clarifying his "done deal" comments:

Two days after saying a longer schedule is a "fait accompli" on his local radio show, Polian returned to the airways Wednesday and told ESPN's "Mike and Mike In The Morning" program what he meant was that the Colts are preparing as if the 18-game season is going to happen.

"I created a headline that was 180 degrees from what was right," Polian said. "Bad job by me in answering the question."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5629713

[Not Mike]

I heard him this morning. I'm guessing he got a talkin' to by the commish. I couldn't even really understand what he was trying to say. He clearly stated the other say that he thinks this is a done deal. There was no gray area. Mike and Mike let him off the hook.

[Han Solo]

I heard him this morning. I'm guessing he got a talkin' to by the commish. I couldn't even really understand what he was trying to say. He clearly stated the other say that he thinks this is a done deal. There was no gray area. Mike and Mike let him off the hook.Have Same & Same in the Morning ever had an interview where they kept someone on the hook??

[Mick Fan]

Plus if they increase to 18 means I will have to waste wonderful summer weather, trying to figure out my FF draft.

No ... I think that they'd add onto the back end of the season, meaning that the Super Bowl would be in mid-to-late February.

I hate the idea for this reason as well as many stated here.