Your drive for your job

[Ginormous76]

While working my way through the signs of divorce thread, I came up with a question. I enjoy my job a lot. I'm quite good at it, and I enjoy getting projects done. However, I also enjoy leaving work, putting it aside and enjoying as much of my time outside of work as I can. There are times where I will end up working on a project for a bit extra at the end of the day, because I'm just in the groove, but some people are talking about putting in an extra 20-30 hours a week in an actuarial position, so that they can advance their career.

I'm pretty happy where I am, and would be happy in a role like this for a long time. I see my manager's in meetings ALL the time. During weeks when I have 10+ hours worth of meetings, I think, "Man, I could be doing something productive instead of sitting in this meeting."

My question is somewhere along the lines of, Do you put in an extra 10+ hours regularly, and why do you do it? Is it just to advance your career? Is it because you love your job that much? Is it a way to avoid going home to the spouse and/or kids?

If you usually just work close to your 40 hours a week, why do you do it? Like your free time? Don't like your job?

[Agadefe]

While working my way through the signs of divorce thread, I came up with a question. I enjoy my job a lot. I'm quite good at it, and I enjoy getting projects done. However, I also enjoy leaving work, putting it aside and enjoying as much of my time outside of work as I can. There are times where I will end up working on a project for a bit extra at the end of the day, because I'm just in the groove, but some people are talking about putting in an extra 20-30 hours a week in an actuarial position, so that they can advance their career.

I'm pretty happy where I am, and would be happy in a role like this for a long time. I see my manager's in meetings ALL the time. During weeks when I have 10+ hours worth of meetings, I think, "Man, I could be doing something productive instead of sitting in this meeting."

My question is somewhere along the lines of, Do you put in an extra 10+ hours regularly, and why do you do it? Is it just to advance your career? Is it because you love your job that much? Is it a way to avoid going home to the spouse and/or kids?

If you usually just work close to your 40 hours a week, why do you do it? Like your free time? Don't like your job?

I love my job and I love having free time.

I wouldn't love my job if it cut in to my free time too much.

I don't have a wife or kids yet, but they will always be #1. Unless I end up hating them, in which case they will be #4. Job will never be #1 though.

[MountainGirl]

i thought this was going to be about commuting.

[Loner]

Most non-consulting actuaries don't work a ton of overtime. Hence, it doesn't take much to set yourself apart. Hell, if you just stay off the AO and work instead you'll probably be a VP in 10 years.

[ldancer911]

I put it extra work when it is needed (i.e. where time-lines require me and others to work more than 40 hours per week).

Other weeks I try to keep it close to 40. I enjoy my free time and spending time at home with my wife. I would not be happy in life if it was to the point where the thing that I work was the enjoyable part of my life.

[mlschop]

If you usually just work close to your 40 hours a week, why do you do it? Like your free time? Don't like your job?

Cuz there's no reason to put in any more. If there were, I'd surely work more (but probably not 50 hours). I'm just not the kind of person that will ever 'love their job' so much that they want to stay at the office. I've had jobs/positions that I absolutely loved, but everything I could do after 5pm I loved more.

My first job out of college I worked for a consulting firm (doing non-actuarial work). I worked 40 hour weeks, and got excellent reviews. My boss told me once that he'd like to see me put in more hours. I asked him "do you not like my work?" He responded "you do great work; better than most of my staff." I said "then if you don't mind, I think I'm okay working the hours I've been working so far."

[ldancer911]

Most non-consulting actuaries don't work a ton of overtime. Hence, it doesn't take much to set yourself apart. Hell, if you just stay off the AO and work instead you'll probably be a VP in 10 years.

:iatp:

Both the non-consulting part and the AO part :).

[SirVLCIV]

My question is somewhere along the lines of, Do you put in an extra 10+ hours regularly, and why do you do it? Is it just to advance your career? Is it because you love your job that much? Is it a way to avoid going home to the spouse and/or kids?

Because the work has to get done (yeah, I'm in consulting).

I'm rarely in the office before 8:30 or past 5:30, but I put in a lot of hours at home this year (I've done my share of 50+ and 60+ hour weeks; 68 hours max this year, though I did a 73 in mid December last year) and have a ridiculous commute. Basically, if I'm unhappy with my bonus, I doubt I'll be able to expend anything approaching this level of effort again.

[bloodninja]

Because the work has to get done (yeah, I'm in consulting).

Can't you figure out how to get it done in less time? I'm being serious...

Also, do you think your bonus will bring your hourly rate up to what it would be if you worked 40 hours a week (ignoring the possibility of getting fired)?

[SirVLCIV]

Can't you figure out how to get it done in less time? I'm being serious...

Also, do you think your bonus will bring your hourly rate up to what it would be if you worked 40 hours a week (ignoring the possibility of getting fired)?

Honestly, without bragging, I think I'm one of the more efficient analysts in my department. I've just had a ****load of work this year; last year's clients (I was at 108% of goals last year) plus one major client, plus two major unexpected projects and the department has lost three analysts this year with only one entry level hire to help out.

I honestly don't know what to expect with respect to a bonus, but I have a number in mind (not insignificant) that if it isn't achieved, I'll have to definitely reconsider whether or not I want to stay where I'm at.

[Guerilla poster]

When I was 25 I loved my job, now I just tolerate it. I will work hard when I need to, rather than all the time like when I was a youngster. I have a better idea how to prioritze now and what is most important to be successsful. So I probably work 10-15 hours less than I did back then. Work is no longer my life as I have developed lots of interests, at 25, work, studying and drinking were my only activities.

[General Apathy]

Honestly, without bragging, I think I'm one of the more efficient analysts in my department. I've just had a ****load of work this year; last year's clients (I was at 108% of goals last year) plus one major client, plus two major unexpected projects and the department has lost three analysts this year with only one entry level hire to help out.

I honestly don't know what to expect with respect to a bonus, but I have a number in mind (not insignificant) that if it isn't achieved, I'll have to definitely reconsider whether or not I want to stay where I'm at.

In my experience you will be disappointed but i hope not.

Not picking on you in particular but putting in the hours for a year end bonus will burn you out eventually. or maybe not.

Figure out where you want to be at age 45 and work accordingly

[SirVLCIV]

In my experience you will be disappointed but i hope not.

Not picking on you in particular but putting in the hours for a year end bonus will burn you out eventually. or maybe not.

Figure out where you want to be at age 45 and work accordingly

Oh, I haven't put in the hours with a bonus in mind. I've put in the hours because the work needed done and I was the person who needed to do it. Being understaffed sucks, but this is a reaction to the 2008 downturn.

But, we'll see. I have 15-20 recruiter e-mails sitting in an folder should I need to go in that direction (and if I do leave, I'm done with the consulting thing).

Where do I want to be at age 45? Maybe Europe. :lol:

[General Apathy]

cool

[Maine-iac]

I usually work about 42 - 45 hours a week. It is sufficient to accomplish my tasks. I wouldn't want to regularly work a lot more hours, because I think a work/personal life balance is necessary to keep the family strong and to avoid career burnout. At certain times I have worked a lot more hours in a week to get a critical task done in a short time frame. I expect this will continue to happen from time to time. It's only to be expected for salaried workers. As long as it's not a regular expectation, that isn't a problem.

[Kool-Aid Man]

To anyone unhappy with your job, let me know and I'll gladly trade places with you. That's probably all I should say because some of the posts in this thread are seriously angering me.

[Foodie]

I've always had "I work to live" attitude, so I don't try too hard to get ahead by putting in a lot of extra time. I like, but don't love, my job. I don't think that I could love any job, for the sheer reason that it's a job (something I have to do).

[Guerilla poster]

To anyone unhappy with your job, let me know and I'll gladly trade places with you. That's probably all I should say because some of the posts in this thread are seriously angering me.


You must get angry quite easily. I don't see many unhappy people in this thread.

[otley]

When I was single and when I was first married it was pretty common for me to stay at work until 7 most nights getting stuff done. It helped me build my skills and my reputation to get to where I am now. I didn't miss any time with my wife, since she stayed 'til 7 at her job, too.

Now we have a 1-year-old and the wife stays home. I leave at 5:30 every day so I can see the little guy and play with him/go for a walk/etc. for an hour before he goes to bed at 7:00. If I was still working late I would never see him.

So now my drive for my job can be expressed in the following statement: "Just don't fire me, OK?" I'm content with my current salary and there is no need to wear myself out to make any more.

[SirVLCIV]

You must get angry quite easily. I don't see many unhappy people in this thread.

I think he's out of work.

[Patrick Bauer]

When success got me close enough to the top and my expectations of the residents was met, I lost all drive for work in the insurance industry.

[Guest]

When I was single and when I was first married it was pretty common for me to stay at work until 7 most nights getting stuff done. It helped me build my skills and my reputation to get to where I am now. I didn't miss any time with my wife, since she stayed 'til 7 at her job, too.

Now we have a 1-year-old and the wife stays home. I leave at 5:30 every day so I can see the little guy and play with him/go for a walk/etc. for an hour before he goes to bed at 7:00. If I was still working late I would never see him.

So now my drive for my job can be expressed in the following statement: "Just don't fire me, OK?" I'm content with my current salary and there is no need to wear myself out to make any more.
This about sums it up for me.

I work the bare minimum hours per week, unless there's an actual client deadline in which case I will work whatever I have to in order to meet it. In that case, I still leave the office on time but I'll work after the kid(s) in bed and/or weekends. I consider one week or so like that a quarter to be a reasonable expectation. I can put up with it for a while as long as I feel that it's temporary and not all the time.

Prior to having kids, I made an effort to shine out. Part of my motivation was to get myself into a place where I could have flexibility for when I did have kids.

But for now I'm not striving to advance...just maintain until my kids are a little older and not going to be at 6:30/7.

[Cannonball]

I have great admiration and respect for people who truly love their work and work hard because that's what they want to do.

I am not among them. I really like my co-workers and boss, but the job itself...meh. It pays well and requires only rare overtime. My boss likes my work, and I do think I'm pretty good at it, but if I won the lottery I'd quit in a heartbeat.

[Loner]

I've often said to people that my job is the kind of thing it's hard to be passionate about, and that's speaking as a nerdy type. It has its small pleasures, but let's be honest, we're saving money, not lives.

[ditkaworshipper]

Let's see, I really don't like the work I'm doing right now all that much. It's mostly overcoming our severe IT issues, and none of the higher ups are willing to do anything about it. So, come the end of the work day, I'm going home unless we have something urgent, in which case I'll put in extra time. I'm more of an entrepreneurial/consultant personality type and my role is pure data monkey :swear:. If my personal life wasn't so entertaining, I'd be looking for a way out.
To anyone unhappy with your job, let me know and I'll gladly trade places with you. That's probably all I should say because some of the posts in this thread are seriously angering me.
Sorry in advance since my post will definitely fit this definition. However, I'm grateful for the opportunity I was given to get my foot in the door and I still produce high quality work since the pay is pretty good and I like the people I work with. Also, most of my friends are out of work/in crap jobs, so I'm not complaining.

[figure 8]

I've often said to people that my job is the kind of thing it's hard to be passionate about, and that's speaking as a nerdy type. It has its small pleasures, but let's be honest, we're saving money, not lives.

And even then... when one entity saves money... doesn't that sometimes more or less just mean that another entity is losing money (or at least, not gaining or saving money)?

[ShebaPoe]

I'm trying to get my work week under 10 hours. I'm pretty close. No work today. Or Friday. Tomorrow I'll work a little.

I do spend a decent number of hours on businesses I own. But that's just me getting paid to do what I want.

So yeah, sheba's work drive is quite low.

[Cannonball]

And even then... when one entity saves money... doesn't that sometimes more or less just mean that another entity is losing money (or at least, not gaining or saving money)?

I don't think it's a zero-sum game. If a standard personal lines insurer does its job well, it helps its customers mitigate risk at a price they are willing to pay. Kind of win-win, I guess.

[Sean Archer]

Very high. Billable ftw. I love my job. Have since day 1.

[Guerilla poster]

I'm trying to get my work week under 10 hours. I'm pretty close. No work today. Or Friday. Tomorrow I'll work a little.

I do spend a decent number of hours on businesses I own. But that's just me getting paid to do what I want.

So yeah, sheba's work drive is quite low.

:yellowcard:But you live on a different planet so stop making us jealous

[SirVLCIV]

Very high. Billable ftw. I love my job. Have since day 1.

Only if you see it at the end of the year.

[Vomik]

I have a pretty easy job, not even a consultant and I've had large bonuses with my base already in the higher end of the DWS range. So, even by actuarial standards I make a lot of money, but I can't say I feel satisfied at all. I don't even know what it is... I like the people and work for the most part. I kind of feel ungrateful, especially since I grew up dirt poor so I make like 8x what my parents made.

I think it's my personality type to always feel unsatisfied. I'm always planning my next job move but it never gets me what I want

[MGN]

Does studying for exams count? I will work the occasional 50-60 hour week but only very occasionally because I'm not in consulting and I don't own my own business. More importantly though, I don't have the chance to work this much for 8 months of the year because I have exams to study for. If you count studying though, which is clearly work related if not work itself, I'm definitely north of 55 hours a week on average. And that's just solid work/study time, not time-at-the-office. But the impact of passing exams on my long-term earnings is substantially greater than the impact of being a little extra thorough on a project or pulling some extra weight around the department.

Also, the extra hours per week has a lot more impact when you're younger than it does when you're, say, over 30. For someone young the expectation is that you will pay your dues and the learning curve is steep enough that the extra hours can make you more effective pretty quickly, which in turn leads people to think you're more than just a youngster more quickly.

[ShebaPoe]

:yellowcard:But you live on a different planet so stop making us jealous

Shit, man, I'm jealous of the people here who enjoy their work enthusiastically. I'd love to wake up in the morning and say "hell yeah I get to work all day doing something I love".

I do feel that way about working out.

But I'm not crazy about my job. It's fun when I meet with clients, but my office approach has been to teach my job to my employees, then basically go home. I'd probably enjoy a full time sales job, but it needs to be my own company, so I can do sales and creative stuff.

[ditkaworshipper]

Does studying for exams count? I will work the occasional 50-60 hour week but only very occasionally because I'm not in consulting and I don't own my own business. More importantly though, I don't have the chance to work this much for 8 months of the year because I have exams to study for. If you count studying though, which is clearly work related if not work itself, I'm definitely north of 55 hours a week on average. And that's just solid work/study time, not time-at-the-office. But the impact of passing exams on my long-term earnings is substantially greater than the impact of being a little extra thorough on a project or pulling some extra weight around the department.

Also, the extra hours per week has a lot more impact when you're younger than it does when you're, say, over 30. For someone young the expectation is that you will pay your dues and the learning curve is steep enough that the extra hours can make you more effective pretty quickly, which in turn leads people to think you're more than just a youngster more quickly.
Yeah, I can tell there's nothing but exams that will help my career progress at this point. It's kind of demoralizing for the day to day work.

[Sean Archer]

Shit, man, I'm jealous of the people here who enjoy their work enthusiastically. I'd love to wake up in the morning and say "hell yeah I get to work all day doing something I love".

I do feel that way about working out.

But I'm not crazy about my job. It's fun when I meet with clients, but my office approach has been to teach my job to my employees, then basically go home. I'd probably enjoy a full time sales job, but it needs to be my own company, so I can do sales and creative stuff.

So you can get your mind **** on. RN? Anybody?

[Loner]

Shit, man, I'm jealous of the people here who enjoy their work enthusiastically. I'd love to wake up in the morning and say "hell yeah I get to work all day doing something I love".

I do feel that way about working out.

But I'm not crazy about my job. It's fun when I meet with clients, but my office approach has been to teach my job to my employees, then basically go home. I'd probably enjoy a full time sales job, but it needs to be my own company, so I can do sales and creative stuff.

Tell you what -teach me to teach your job to your employees, and I'll only take a 15% cut, and you can stay home. ;)

[MGN]

Yeah, I can tell there's nothing but exams that will help my career progress at this point. It's kind of demoralizing for the day to day work.

Heavily. I wouldn't say in my case that there's nothing that will help my career progress except exams, but it's fairly clear that exams are by far the largest bang for the hours.

[wally world]

While working my way through the signs of divorce thread, I came up with a question. I enjoy my job a lot. I'm quite good at it, and I enjoy getting projects done. However, I also enjoy leaving work, putting it aside and enjoying as much of my time outside of work as I can. There are times where I will end up working on a project for a bit extra at the end of the day, because I'm just in the groove, but some people are talking about putting in an extra 20-30 hours a week in an actuarial position, so that they can advance their career.

I'm pretty happy where I am, and would be happy in a role like this for a long time. I see my manager's in meetings ALL the time. During weeks when I have 10+ hours worth of meetings, I think, "Man, I could be doing something productive instead of sitting in this meeting."

My question is somewhere along the lines of, Do you put in an extra 10+ hours regularly, and why do you do it? Is it just to advance your career? Is it because you love your job that much? Is it a way to avoid going home to the spouse and/or kids?

If you usually just work close to your 40 hours a week, why do you do it? Like your free time? Don't like your job?

I'm in the 40 hours a week camp. My free time is much more valuable to me. I like my job. It's a job, and I can't imagine doing anything else that would pay me as well for the amount of work I do. So I tolerate it. I don't hate my job, but if I won a small lottery ($3MM or so), I'd never work again as that would approximate the amount of money I'd make for the rest of my career. I do enough so I won't ever get fired.

[PhildeTruth]

I'm in the 40 hours a week camp. My free time is much more valuable to me. I like my job. It's a job, and I can't imagine doing anything else that would pay me as well for the amount of work I do. So I tolerate it. I don't hate my job, but if I won a small lottery ($3MM or so), I'd never work again as that would approximate the amount of money I'd make for the rest of my career. I do enough so I won't ever get fired.

I'd go batshit insane if I worked 40 hours a week and lived in Indiana.

[Dreamer33]

I'd go batshit insane if I worked 40 hours a week and lived in Indiana.

Well pack yer bags, that might be an improvement for you.

A batshit insane person might actually be fun to be around at times. More than I can say about an arrogant dbag.

[Ubiquitous Red Cup]

I work a ton of hours every week; it's very much the norm at my company. When someone is on the verge of a meltdown, the response from management goes something like this: "It's all about constantly re-prioritizing" or "Just reach out to us if you have too much on your plate"....two suggestions that would be grand if it weren't for the fact that every else is slammed and there is no one to "reach out" to.

I'm happy to pitch in when necessary and I'll always stay late to help a coworker if they need it. I also think that it should be the exception and not the rule, so I'm studying hard and looking to find an employer that offers a better work-life balance.

[KingWithoutACrown]

I worked for a company that had a bunch of "benefits specialists". Those guys would work like 50 hours a week at least. It's stupid. They could have done something like become an auditor or a financial analyst for better pay, better career prospects, and more interesting work. I always wondered how they got suckered into that job or why they choose it. :lol: