Poker, Heads Up

[foghorn]

I was wondering if any of you experienced online poker players had any quick advice on heads-up play. I've been playing the 1-table $5 tourneys on Pokerstars. My last six tourneys, I've finished 4th once, 1st once, and second 4 times. At least two of these 2nd place finishes I had a huge stack lead at one time.
I credit this board with my success, as this is the only place I've learned to play, other than televised tourneys and actually playing, so any advice or thoughts would be welcomed.

[Expunge]

How often are you folding preflop in the heads up situation?

[foghorn]

How often are you folding preflop in the heads up situation?

Without actually looking at my stats, I would say maybe 20%. The times when I'm BB and called, I wouldn't fold of course. I think I tend to call or raise anytime I have ten or better, pocket pair, or a decent suited pair that would fit a straight, like an 8 9 suited.

[Voter]

Limit or no-limit?

In limit I've played some of the same games, and done well when taking a lead into the final two. I fold here and there, and sometimes when I have a very good hand and my opponent folds I show the cards. I like to think this makes my bluffs - which I do pretty often in this situation - believable. Seems to work, but nowhere near enough experience to really say. Maybe I've just had timid opponents.

I've found the hard way that when I raise and a mostly timid opponent re-raises, get out. Then minimize the bluffing until you get a good hand and re-establish credibility.

Probably all meaningless if you're playing no-limit, though.

[Expunge]

much of my heads up strategy follows on how ive established my table image upto that point.

I rarely just call preflop... I'm willing to fold a hand from the small blind. This give the impression that when i raise the hand i have something. If im in the big blind and have established this possibile fold i will reraise with a mediocre playable hand when my opponent raises to me. This semi bluff counters his bluff. In general though the blinds are so high by the time you hit heads up that unless you are evenly stacked the short term luck of the cards comes into play.

[foghorn]

Limit or no-limit?



This is no-limit. I have been much more successful at no-limit than at limit, although I haven't played any limit tourneys.

[foghorn]

much of my heads up strategy follows on how ive established my table image upto that point.

I rarely just call preflop... I'm willing to fold a hand from the small blind. This give the impression that when i raise the hand i have something. If im in the big blind and have established this possibile fold i will reraise with a mediocre playable hand when my opponent raises to me. This semi bluff counters his bluff. In general though the blinds are so high by the time you hit heads up that unless you are evenly stacked the short term luck of the cards comes into play.

Most of this sounds like what I try to do. I don't know about reraising with a mediocre hand though. I will pay attention to this next time and see if I do this, or how much.

With my recent success, I'm considering moving up to either 2-table or $10. What's your take on the differences of these games versus 1-table $5?

[Castle7]

I actually think it is easier to get in the money on the 2 tables than the 1 tables - less luck of cards. You have to expect the players to be better everytime you move up stakes.

[Expunge]

much of my heads up strategy follows on how ive established my table image upto that point.

I rarely just call preflop... I'm willing to fold a hand from the small blind. This give the impression that when i raise the hand i have something. If im in the big blind and have established this possibile fold i will reraise with a mediocre playable hand when my opponent raises to me. This semi bluff counters his bluff. In general though the blinds are so high by the time you hit heads up that unless you are evenly stacked the short term luck of the cards comes into play.

Most of this sounds like what I try to do. I don't know about reraising with a mediocre hand though. I will pay attention to this next time and see if I do this, or how much.

With my recent success, I'm considering moving up to either 2-table or $10. What's your take on the differences of these games versus 1-table $5?

The reraise on mediocre hand is designed more to be a bluff. You need to be against someone that is willing to lay down a hand preflop or at the very least will check fold on the flop. it's not something to be used all the time, just something to slow down aggressive players. (ie you who keeps trying to steal the bb everyhand)

[RedSoxFan]

How often are you folding preflop in the heads up situation?

Without actually looking at my stats, I would say maybe 20%. The times when I'm BB and called, I wouldn't fold of course. I think I tend to call or raise anytime I have ten or better, pocket pair, or a decent suited pair that would fit a straight, like an 8 9 suited.

Sounds like you are still judging hole cards by their worth in a 8-10 person game. When its just down to two people, suited connectors are practically worthless (unless they're JQ, QK, KA, etc) because you will never have good enough pot odds for a straight or flush draw. On the other hand, any pocket pair is very good, and any hand with an A is very good. If it ever comes to a showdown, the vast majority of the time the winner will have one pair or just a high card. So, if you have a pocket pair or get a pair on the flop, especially if its tens or higher, you've probably got a winning hand.

[foghorn]

How often are you folding preflop in the heads up situation?

Without actually looking at my stats, I would say maybe 20%. The times when I'm BB and called, I wouldn't fold of course. I think I tend to call or raise anytime I have ten or better, pocket pair, or a decent suited pair that would fit a straight, like an 8 9 suited.

Sounds like you are still judging hole cards by their worth in a 8-10 person game. When its just down to two people, suited connectors are practically worthless (unless they're JQ, QK, KA, etc) because you will never have good enough pot odds for a straight or flush draw. On the other hand, any pocket pair is very good, and any hand with an A is very good. If it ever comes to a showdown, the vast majority of the time the winner will have one pair or just a high card. So, if you have a pocket pair or get a pair on the flop, especially if its tens or higher, you've probably got a winning hand.

I thought I was judging the hole cards looser, but maybe not enough. Are you saying I should consistently call or raise with less than a 10 pre-flop? (I know there are times to bluff, raise over the big blind with nothing, etc.)

I didn't realize that about the suited connectors being worthless. I'll keep that in mind. I didn't give them lots of value, but I had them somewhat higher than worthless. Thanks.

[Expunge]

How often are you folding preflop in the heads up situation?

Without actually looking at my stats, I would say maybe 20%. The times when I'm BB and called, I wouldn't fold of course. I think I tend to call or raise anytime I have ten or better, pocket pair, or a decent suited pair that would fit a straight, like an 8 9 suited.

Sounds like you are still judging hole cards by their worth in a 8-10 person game. When its just down to two people, suited connectors are practically worthless (unless they're JQ, QK, KA, etc) because you will never have good enough pot odds for a straight or flush draw. On the other hand, any pocket pair is very good, and any hand with an A is very good. If it ever comes to a showdown, the vast majority of the time the winner will have one pair or just a high card. So, if you have a pocket pair or get a pair on the flop, especially if its tens or higher, you've probably got a winning hand.

I thought I was judging the hole cards looser, but maybe not enough. Are you saying I should consistently call or raise with less than a 10 pre-flop? (I know there are times to bluff, raise over the big blind with nothing, etc.)

I didn't realize that about the suited connectors being worthless. I'll keep that in mind. I didn't give them lots of value, but I had them somewhat higher than worthless. Thanks.

Heads up you're no longer looking to play hands that give you a big hand if you draw to it. ie straights and flushes, in 8-10 player game you should be able to get enough action pre and post flop to outweigh the odds against you making the hand. (so when you do make the hand you're paid of significantly) heads up there is no way to get paid even 2.5:1 its always 2:1. you're looking for big cards and looking to make a pair. I would say that heads up 23o is worse than 27o because you wont get proper odds to make the straight. keep your t's or better, but you're usually looking for a pocket pair or an ace. a king is also pretty strong.

[RedSoxFan]

How often are you folding preflop in the heads up situation?

Without actually looking at my stats, I would say maybe 20%. The times when I'm BB and called, I wouldn't fold of course. I think I tend to call or raise anytime I have ten or better, pocket pair, or a decent suited pair that would fit a straight, like an 8 9 suited.

Sounds like you are still judging hole cards by their worth in a 8-10 person game. When its just down to two people, suited connectors are practically worthless (unless they're JQ, QK, KA, etc) because you will never have good enough pot odds for a straight or flush draw. On the other hand, any pocket pair is very good, and any hand with an A is very good. If it ever comes to a showdown, the vast majority of the time the winner will have one pair or just a high card. So, if you have a pocket pair or get a pair on the flop, especially if its tens or higher, you've probably got a winning hand.

I thought I was judging the hole cards looser, but maybe not enough. Are you saying I should consistently call or raise with less than a 10 pre-flop? (I know there are times to bluff, raise over the big blind with nothing, etc.)

I didn't realize that about the suited connectors being worthless. I'll keep that in mind. I didn't give them lots of value, but I had them somewhat higher than worthless. Thanks.

It's not that you're judging hole cards looser, per se. Some hole cards go up in value relatively, others go down.

Think about flopping a flush draw. Your chances of hitting the flush are 1-38/47=19%. So say the pot is 300 and you have to call a 50 bet to stay in. You definitely have pot odds because 50/350 < 19%. In the long run you'll definitely make money doing that. But if there are only two people in the pot, you'll almost never get good enough pot odds to call a bet drawing for a flush. That doesn't mean ignore flushes: say you flop a flush draw and middle pair. You could probably call a decent bet by the opponent, even if you think he has top pair. Via the turn and/or river you could get a set or two pair, and you also have the additional chances from hitting a flush.

Another example: when there are 10 people around, would you rather have A6 offsuit or KQ suited? Definitely the KQ suited. But what about when just two people are around? You definitely want the A6 offsuit. If neither player pairs, which is quite possible with just two people, the person will the A will win. Also, a pair with the ace will beat any pair by the opponent.

[foghorn]

This is exactly what I wanted. I have so much fun playing, I hadn't stopped to consider the pot being half mine. Duh. So if I win I can at most double, as opposed to when more people have bet. So basic, yet it just hadn't occurred to me. I see both of your points better now about the straights and flushes.
I'm still not completely convinced that A6 is better than KQ, though I do know the value of A6 goes up as the number of players goes down. KQ still gives you two chances of flopping a pretty nice pair, as opposed to a pair of sixes which is just not as strong, but still bettable heads-up.
Thanks and keep it coming.

[Expunge]

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=165485
pokenum -h ah 6c - kd qd
Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
6c Ah 916376 53.52 789074 46.08 6854 0.40 0.537
Kd Qd 789074 46.08 916376 53.52 6854 0.40 0.463

[Expunge]

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=169467
pokenum -h ah 6c - kd qd - js ts
Holdem Hi: 1370754 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
6c Ah 443009 32.32 924707 67.46 3038 0.22 0.324
Kd Qd 495841 36.17 871875 63.61 3038 0.22 0.362
Js Ts 428866 31.29 938850 68.49 3038 0.22 0.314

[FSAme]

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=169467
pokenum -h ah 6c - kd qd - js ts
Holdem Hi: 1370754 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
6c Ah 443009 32.32 924707 67.46 3038 0.22 0.324
Kd Qd 495841 36.17 871875 63.61 3038 0.22 0.362
Js Ts 428866 31.29 938850 68.49 3038 0.22 0.314

That's surprising, considering you took out 2 cards that give the KQ a straight possibility.

[Expunge]

basically the KQs value shrinks but not nearly as fast as Axo. Axo strongly depends on the opponent not pairing. when you double the number of cards that will pair an opponent you significantly reduce the chance of the A6 winning.

[Bama Gambler]

Funny yall are talking about A6o vs KQ, because I busted out of the 30 NL last night at party with A6 vs KQ. I was on the button with 890. Average stack was 2100. Blinds were 75/150. Two limped in front of me. I moved in. On of the limpers called with KQ. Flop 67Q. Turn A. River Q.

[Hummer]

Funny yall are talking about A6o vs KQ, because I busted out of the 30 NL last night at party with A6 vs KQ. I was on the button with 890. Average stack was 2100. Blinds were 75/150. Two limped in front of me. I moved in. On of the limpers called with KQ. Flop 67Q. Turn A. River Q.

Bama, was that a single table or the multi-table $30?

I think I looked for you and don't remember seeing your name (unless you have a different username) on the multi-table.

[Bama Gambler]

Funny yall are talking about A6o vs KQ, because I busted out of the 30 NL last night at party with A6 vs KQ. I was on the button with 890. Average stack was 2100. Blinds were 75/150. Two limped in front of me. I moved in. On of the limpers called with KQ. Flop 67Q. Turn A. River Q.

Bama, was that a single table or the multi-table $30?

I think I looked for you and don't remember seeing your name (unless you have a different username) on the multi-table.It was the multitable. My handle is Bama_Gambler on Party and Bama Gambler on Stars. Bama Gambler (without the underscore) was already taken on Party.

[fallout]

KQ was bad luck for me yesterday.

I was in a $30 single table limit game and had KQo on the button.
Blinds were like 50/100, 6 or 7 players left. I had around 2900 as did one other. The rest had evenly under 1000.
A few bets before the flop, and a bunch of callers. Flop was AK10 rainbow. Aboslute nuts. Two callers to the 4 bet limit. A scud on the turn, and an A on the river. I lost to an AK making a tight. Cost me my big chip lead.

I hooked up with the co chip leader and almost tapped out on this hand.

Finished 4th. I hate when that happens.

[Bama Gambler]

Typo?

KQ
Flop: AKT
and you have the nuts?

Did you have QJ?

[fallout]

Typo?

KQ
Flop: AKT
and you have the nuts?

Did you have QJ?

Yes
QJ

<shaking head>

Turns out this is not relevant.

[Hummer]

Funny yall are talking about A6o vs KQ, because I busted out of the 30 NL last night at party with A6 vs KQ. I was on the button with 890. Average stack was 2100. Blinds were 75/150. Two limped in front of me. I moved in. On of the limpers called with KQ. Flop 67Q. Turn A. River Q.

Bama, was that a single table or the multi-table $30?

I think I looked for you and don't remember seeing your name (unless you have a different username) on the multi-table.It was the multitable. My handle is Bama_Gambler on Party and Bama Gambler on Stars. Bama Gambler (without the underscore) was already taken on Party.

Was it was the one that started around 10pm pacific (589 players)? I took second place. I should have had first based on chip size when we started heads up, but I screwed up and then played poorly after losing the chip lead. As soon as I get the hand history, I will post the key momentum changing hand.

[Bama Gambler]

Was it was the one that started around 10pm pacific (589 players)? I took second place. I should have had first based on chip size when we started heads up, but I screwed up and then played poorly after losing the chip lead. As soon as I get the hand history, I will post the key momentum changing hand.No it was much earlier. Congrats on your 2nd place finish!! That's awesome! What's your screen name?