Poker - More Tournament Talk

[Castle7]

Well, my streak of busting out in the 2nd hand continues...
I am 3rd from the button with KQ, and I raise 5x BB (to 100) first one in the hand, all fold except the BB, who calls...FLop:
Q84 Rainbow
I bet 300 on the flop thinking I am a winner, BB calls
2 on the turn, I figure I am money, so I go all - in, BB calls
River is a 5
BB turns over Q8s

What did I do wrong? Not quite so aggressively on the turn? I keep feeling like I am betting enough that logically these people should not be keeping the hands they are, and then they beat me with them and I am not sure if I am making a mistake by thinking they can't hold those cards given my bets.

Also, side question, how often do you guys make the money in say a 200+ entrant tourney? So far I am 1 for 5, but I did not make enough to pay for the other times I missed.

[Expunge]

Well, my streak of busting out in the 2nd hand continues...
I am 3rd from the button with KQ, and I raise 5x BB (to 100) first one in the hand, all fold except the BB, who calls...FLop:
Q84 Rainbow
I bet 300 on the flop thinking I am a winner, BB calls
2 on the turn, I figure I am money, so I go all - in, BB calls
River is a 5
BB turns over Q8s

What did I do wrong? Not quite so aggressively on the turn? I keep feeling like I am betting enough that logically these people should not be keeping the hands they are, and then they beat me with them and I am not sure if I am making a mistake by thinking they can't hold those cards given my bets.

Also, side question, how often do you guys make the money in say a 200+ entrant tourney? So far I am 1 for 5, but I did not make enough to pay for the other times I missed.

Especially if this is a single table and a cheap table you must be cautious in the opening hands. Too many loose preflop calls will happen. You must also think that somethings a miss when he calls your 300 on the turn. Does he have AQ, did he have a pocket pair and make a set, did he make 2 pair. I think your downfall here is being too aggressive too early. combined with a little bit of bad luck. This still will bust you out of quite a few tournaments early. However this style will also get you chips early if you do win the hand. I personally prefer to sit back a little and build a tight image.
The other night i couldn't do this as i got great cards in the first round. I think i won 4 of the first 6 hands. I then sat back as i got my junk cards for the next 2 or 3 rounds. Unfortunately it was a limit tournament and the advantage of winning so many hands early was soon eroded by sitting back during the next couple of rounds. However i did finish 3rd so i got a cash.

[3rookie]

I assume this is a $5 or $10 buy-in. Even though you raised 5x BB, since blinds are so low at the start, people are more willing to see the flop with less than top hands. Especially with just a $5 buy-in. Also, if he turned over AQs instead of Q8s, would you be as upset?

I guess after the flop, I would also think I had top hand. His calling such a high amount could possibly make me bet low on the turn and fold to a raise. But in the heat of battle, I don't know how I would have played it.

[Castle7]

It was a 20/2 NL HoldEm Multi Table tournament at PokerStars. I blew a lot of money really fast!

[Castle7]

I would have expected a raise on the flop if he had AQ. If he did have AQ the way he played, I would consider him overly cautious or being sneaky, but no, I suppose not as upset. I was a 70% favorite against his hand pre-flop, that is what irritates me, that he called 5x BB Pre-Flop with that hand.

[Voter]

I assume this is a $5 or $10 buy-in. Even though you raised 5x BB, since blinds are so low at the start, people are more willing to see the flop with less than top hands.
Yep, and after that - look at it from his perspective. What do you think he put you on?

You're betting big, so he has you on a big pocket pair or big cards, probably suited.

Since two queens are known, he doubts you have the other two. If you have one of them, your early betting indicates a big kicker. So, his two pair have you beat.

Similarly, if you have AA, KK, or JJ, his two pair have you beat.

If A or K come on the turn or river, or if the board pairs, he very well may have folded. That risk is probably why he was just calling, rather than raising.

[Expunge]

actually only call 4x (he had 1X already in) Prob willing to just take a peak at the flop. just happened to hit him just right. You remind me of one of my friends who gets updet when this stuff happens. Early in tournaments players make alot of weak calls its something you just have to expect. Also i don't know if putting your tournament at risk with top pair and second best kicker is really worth it. If the other player had AQ i can't fault the way he played it. Maybe i would have made a raise on the flop, maybe i would be unsure of a set because of the 100 pre flop bet.

[Expunge]

As for the $200 tourneys i havn't entered any of them. entered a couple of multitable qualifiers but hit a bad beat or a bad streak of cards in the middle.

[Castle7]

I am more upset at myself for playing poorly than at the other guy. I am all too aware that I would prefer to play all day with people willing to call that, but you have to admit it stings. I should not have gone all in on the turn I guess. I think the main weakness in my game is that once I decide to go after a pot, I REALLY go after it. I just need to learn to let go of some of those hands I guess. :horse:

[foghorn]

I definitely bow to the expertise of the others on this board, but I'll throw in my two cents. Your pre-flop bet is a little more than I would have, but I may like yours better. After the flop I like to bet big, although I'm still a little more conservative than you were, maybe 150. I also like to give the other guy an opportunity to raise if he has a hand. If he calls, then after the turn I would bet a little bigger, but not all-in. There are just too many good hands with a full table. If he raises, I might stay in but just call. If he's all-in, I fold. I do not like to risk my tourney that early, even for a good hand, unless it's the absolute best, or very close to it. By keeping the bets semi-small early, you get a chance to gain a chip lead on everyone, while not risking the entire tourney. If you lose, you're down a little, but with plenty of time to build it back up with good hands.

[Expunge]

Usually my first playable hand will determine my semi standard raise. If my first playable hand is a top 10 but not AA, i will make my semistandard raise be to 5x as you did. If my playable hand isn't quite as strong ie KQ i make it 4x. These are for when i'm first to enter the pot. I access the value of just calling vs a reraise based on how many and who has limped or raised infront of me. Early in a tournament if i feel my raise is just going to build the pot, (ie not drive anybody out) i will just call on all but the strongest hands. Otherwise i'm prob risking to high a pct of my chips in a too many way pot just to see a flop that i very well might need to give up on.

[Expunge]

Any of the poker players here attending the CAS ratemaking seminar in march?