Disappointed

[Anonymous]

Can anyone relate to this situation...A friend of mine received a confidential letter from her boss stating that if she doesn't pass her exam in this upcoming sitting, her position in the company will be in jeopardy. She has taken the same exam a few times and has not been successful, so this is her last chance. I am curious if anyone found themselves in the same situation and what the outcome was.

[Patience]

Things must be different than I remember, but in my day...

you knew how many shots you got and were gone if you didn't come through.

This doesn't sound unusual at all, except that she is surprised by it & didn't have advance knowledge.

Some companies may keep you on as a non-student, but for most it is "hit the streets"

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Doesn't your company have a published study program? If so, everyone would have known about her status. If not, then it seems a bit arbitrary. Is anyone else known to be in a similar predicament there?
Most places are getting tired of holding a student position for people not passing exams.

[Anonymous]

are we talking about lower level exam such as 1-4 or upper exams such as 6-?

If she is stuck in one of the lower level exams, she is defintely in trouble and she better start studying if she is serious about staying.
For upper exams, there are usually more flexiblity since you have already proved yourself.

[urysohn]

If this comes as a complete surprise to her, she must have had her head in the sand. Companies don't pay for all those books, seminars, exam fees, study time at work, and time away from work for nothing. Some companies don't have pre-defined rules for where the line is. And some companies don't enforce it at all (at my job, you'll be out of the student program but not out of a job). But you have to at least know it's a possibility. Especially if they're really good about making sure they're not your reason for not passing (i.e. you get all your study time, they send you to seminars, etc). Even if they don't, you have to know there's a chance that not passing means not being around forever.

[Patience]

exam level isn't relavant. If the boss intended to keep her, I doubt they would just deliver the letter without saying something on the side that they would like to keep her.

If this is arbitrary she probably has no addition recourses, but it is also most likely a reflection on her work ability as well.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for your responses.

Yes, the study program guidlines are clearly stated, but I guess why I was surprised is b/c in my experience consulting firms have been more or less lenient, and there is always a chance that the firm will keep u even if u are no longer a student.

If anyone did have an experience like my friend did, what would happen if she fails again and is forced to leave? I guess more specifically my question is how will potential employer perceive my friend?

[Anonymous]

And yes, we are talking about lower level exams.

[Patience]

Assuming she has a short work history & limited exam success, finding an actuarial job will be tough.

Most people I knew who failed off got into systems or other insurance related, non-actuarial job.

Some companies may hire her as a non-student. Someone with some actuarial knowledge who can help support the actuaries. If she wants back on a program, it usually requires passing x credits in y time, usually a tough task. Without getting into the student program raises and advances will be very slow.

So it is either hang on and fight in if she feels she is capable or move on.

_________________
I've been through the desert on a horse with no name...
In the desert you can remember your name
'Cause there ain't no one for to give you no pain

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Patience on 2002-02-08 16:08 ]</font>

[CJL]

I know someone who was bumped from a student program, voluntarily left to another company where he was allowed in the program, and within a couple years went back to the original company with full "membership" in the student program. Probably the exception, though, not the rule.

I have seen a few people drop out of student programs. The ones who were released had other issues (performance), not just exam passing. But I wouldn't be surprised if it is sometimes adhered to more strictly than that.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

If the company is a good one to stay employed at, she should keep her eyes open for finance or underwriting positions, just in case.
At the least, get friendly with the hiring folks in those departments.
There will be different opinions in prospective employers based on exactly which exam it is. If it's #4 and she has passed #3, then that won't be too difficult. If it's #2, then that's a different story, altogether.

[Anonymous]

Not to sound harsh, but you... I mean, "your friend," knew the possibility the whole time, so there's really nothing to complain about. Just study your butt off and you'll... I mean, your friend, will be okay.

[WinnieThePooh]

Definitely real at my company

I would try to move right now in case the next sitting is unsuccessful.

If I am giving up on ActSci I would deviate in the same company to a related field (U/W, IT etc..)

[Anonymous]

Thank you again for all your inputs.

[Ammie]

We have a published program that they are pretty firm on. Getting kicked out rarely means loss of job though.

Edited to add: I work in consulting

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ammie on 2002-02-08 20:11 ]</font>

[Buru Buru]

I work in the consulting field and it seems as though failing out of the study program would never put anyone's job in jeopardy. I was under the impression that this type of thing only happens in insurance companies. That seems like a rather strange situation. Does this person work for a very small company or maybe there are other issues with job performance? I don't think that this would happen in one of the larger, established consulting firms. There are just too many people in my company who fail out of the study program to be able to fire any of them. It seems as though in the consulting field you could fail out of one study program and just go to another company and get study time in another program. You can just hop from job to job.

[Anonymous]

She works for a large consulting firm. It might be because most people in her study program pass on the first try, at the most on the second, a lot of pressure is put on her to keep up with the rest of the group.

[WWSituation]

Times are tough in consulting right now. I wouldn't put it past a department to begin enforcing study program rules. The expense IS a drain on the business if people don't pass.

[Buru Buru]

I always thought that one of the advantages to working in consulting was that your job was relatively secure regardless of exam success. I would suggest that your friend immediately start looking for a new job. It isn't worth the stress to stay in such a situation when most other consulting firms don't have a policy like that.