Non-traditional jobs

[Anonymous]

To any passersby,

I'm trying to gather feedback from any individuals like myself. I'm a recent FSA(1998), and after 10 years of traditional Actuaral work (valuation, Pricing, etc), I made the move to a non-traditional area early last year (energy trading). I made the move partly out of a curiousity to test my skills in a different arena, and partly out of geographical considerations. I took a bit of a haricut pay-wise (hopefully temporarily) to make the move.

So my questions are these:
-- Do I now have an advantage over other credentialed Actuaries who have stayed in traditional arenas?
-- On any future job hunts, can I expect to be on a more level playing field with non-Actuarial competition(MBAs, MS in Financial Eng, etc)? My perception is that these folks always seem to get more attention from employers, even though my experience has been that they are generally no more capable, perhaps even less so.
--After making the move, what has your experiece been salary wise?

Thanks to anyone kind enough to respond!

[Anonymous]

On 2002-02-09 16:08, Anonymous wrote:
To any passersby,

I'm trying to gather feedback from any individuals like myself. I'm a recent FSA(1998), and after 10 years of traditional Actuaral work (valuation, Pricing, etc), I made the move to a non-traditional area early last year (energy trading). I made the move partly out of a curiousity to test my skills in a different arena, and partly out of geographical considerations. I took a bit of a haricut pay-wise (hopefully temporarily) to make the move.

So my questions are these:
-- Do I now have an advantage over other credentialed Actuaries who have stayed in traditional arenas?
-- On any future job hunts, can I expect to be on a more level playing field with non-Actuarial competition(MBAs, MS in Financial Eng, etc)? My perception is that these folks always seem to get more attention from employers, even though my experience has been that they are generally no more capable, perhaps even less so.
--After making the move, what has your experiece been salary wise?

Thanks to anyone kind enough to respond!

[Anonymous]

While I don't have an answer to your question, I was wondering how you have liked your new job. Have you found the work interesting and challenging (yet doable)? I am interested in potentially seeking out a non-trad job but I want to make sure that I have the skills to be successful at it. Do you feel like your valuation/pricing experience was valuable to you in your current position?

[Anonymous]

To Anonymous:

I would encourage you to take a shot at attempting a non-trad position. All the skills you no doubt have picked up as an Actuary(statistical analysis, model building, risk assessment, s/w development) will serve you well. You're better prepared for such a move than you probably realize.

The issues confronting anyone attempting such a move have little to do with skillsets:

--Name recognition -> Actuarial designations have little or no name recognition outside of insurance/benfits consulting. The SOA encourages moves of this type, and yet has done very little to lay the groundwork. MBA's, PHd quantitative analysis,etc receive far more attention than do Actuaries from non-trad employers.

--Salary expectations - Believe it or not, Actuaries are very well paid in their narrowly defined niches. Outside of Wall Street, there aren't many quantitatively oriented jobs that pay as well as Traditional Actuarial jobs, at least not initially. The upside is (at least I hope this is true!)that you will have a considerably wider array of career choices down the road.

On 2002-02-14 08:19, Anonymous wrote:
While I don't have an answer to your question, I was wondering how you have liked your new job. Have you found the work interesting and challenging (yet doable)? I am interested in potentially seeking out a non-trad job but I want to make sure that I have the skills to be successful at it. Do you feel like your valuation/pricing experience was valuable to you in your current position?

[McUSA]

-- Do I now have an advantage over other credentialed Actuaries who have stayed in traditional arenas?

Your "advantage" will be your experience over other people's experiences. I don't know why non-traditional experience would be valuable if you were looking for a traditional job, but it might be.

-- On any future job hunts, can I expect to be on a more level playing field with non-Actuarial competition(MBAs, MS in Financial Eng, etc)? My perception is that these folks always seem to get more attention from employers, even though my experience has been that they are generally no more capable, perhaps even less so.

Actuarial designations just aren't that recognized outside of the actuarial field. I'm not sure having a non-traditional position would change that, but your work speaks for itself.

On a another note, I was wondering how the energy trading market has changed since ENRON? Is that market still active? Does your work require a good deal of quantitative knowledge?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous in Energy Trading, please tell me how you found out about the position and how you landed the job? Did you have to take a pay-cut? I am a career ASA who would love to make a switch, but can't afford a big pay-cut. Thanks.

[DW Simpson]

On 2002-02-26 09:17, Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous in Energy Trading, please tell me how you found out about the position and how you landed the job? Did you have to take a pay-cut? I am a career ASA who would love to make a switch, but can't afford a big pay-cut. Thanks.


A position like this just came in: New York Analytic Risk Manager #10496 (http://www.dwsimpson.com/otherjobs.html): Our client seeks professionals to perform analytic risk management functions for market risk or credit risk. They assist energy, financial chemical and other cos. Wall Street trading experience required. Actuary or PhD.

Unfortunately, "prior trading experience" is a requirement or preference that we see often, though.

[McUSA]

Does "day trading" count as prior trading experience?

[DW Simpson]

Another non-traditional job came in, but I'm not yet sure how set in stone it is (so please keep that in mind; they've agreed to begin looking with rough guidelines). It's a Midwest casualty student position working on pricing weather & hydro risks (http://www.dwsimpson.com/cform.html?MidwestWeatherRisk). Casualty pricing or weather risk pricing experience required.

[DW Simpson]

Our client is still very motivated to fill this non-traditional position, pricing weather & hydro risks (position #10638 (http://www.dwsimpson.com/cform.html?10638)). Prior experience not required.