1980 CSO Joint tables

[zzzzzz]

Have you a copy of the 1980 CSO Joint Tables, especially smoker and nonsmoker???? or at least I couldn't find them.

The joint tables were never added to the Table Manager.

I will be most appreciative of anyone who will email me copies.

[Double High C]

There is no such thing.

You calculate the joint (or joint-and-last-survivor, either Frasierized or nonFrasierized) q's based on 1st principles.

[zzzzzz]

Thanks. I'm not sure what you mean by first principals, but I used 1-(1-qf)*(1-qm) to estimate the joint non-smoker functions.

Many years ago, I did obtain a copy of a published joint aggregate table. The above formula works fairly accurately on the younger but not the older ages.

[NoName]

zzz, you should talk to someone higher-up to make sure that your table is appropriate for the purpose for which it is intended.

[zzzzzz]

NoName: Thanks, but I am quite capable of making that decision. The table is needed for peer review.

[Double High C]

zzzzzz,

Your formula should be perfect for Nonfrasierized JLS q's, under the assumption that both lives are independent (and I am not aware of any published valuation adjustments to the 1980 CSO tables to introduce dependence - e.g. in the form of contagion risk or "broken heart syndrome" - either explicit or implicit).

My guess is that your formula didn't work because the table to which you were comparing your calculated q's (i.e. the result of your formula) was of Frasierized q's; one would expect that at early policy durations and young ages, the Frasierized results would be reasonably close to the Nonfrasierized results (exactly the same in Policy Year 1). As duration increases, the error would increase rapidly.

[Gandalf]

Are you looking for joint first-to-die or joint second-to-die tables? If first-to-die, your formula should work [assuming independent lives], and Frasierized is irrelevant.

If second-to-die, the Frasierized situation is important and your formula is not correct regardless of whether table is Frasierized.

[Double High C]

Gandalf is correct; I was wrong.

(qm x qf is the nonfrasierized JLS q, assuming both lives are independent, of course.)

[zzzzzz]

Thanks to all who responded. Your "peer" support/review is greatly appreciated.