California budget deficit has swelled to $16 billion

[Wigmeister General]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/12/california-budget-deficit-has-swelled-16-billion-governor-says/

SACRAMENTO, Calif. – California's budget deficit has swelled to a projected $16 billion -- much larger than had been predicted just months ago -- and will force severe cuts to schools and public safety if voters fail to approve tax increases in November, Gov. Jerry Brown said Saturday.

The Democratic governor said the shortfall grew from $9.2 billion in January in part because tax collections have not come in as high as expected and the economy isn't growing as fast as hoped for. The deficit has also risen because lawsuits and federal requirements have blocked billions of dollars in state cuts.

"This means we will have to go much farther and make cuts far greater than I asked for at the beginning of the year," Brown said in an online video. "But we can't fill this hole with cuts alone without doing severe damage to our schools. That's why I'm bypassing the gridlock and asking you, the people of California, to approve a plan that avoids cuts to schools and public safety."


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/12/california-budget-deficit-has-swelled-16-billion-governor-says/#ixzz1uijIurrW

[Len Myers]

At least the diversity programs won't be hit.

[Mr. B]

I'm sure the reason the budget is much larger than expected was that they were basing it on a very rosy scenario.

On the other hand, Californians are certainly among the most highly taxed people in the US, and they're not getting that much for what they're already paying. And the business climate in this state is just absolutely horrid.

And, of course, it's always the sob stories, i.e., schools and public safety will need draconian cuts. Well, public employee pensions are definitely killing us.

Of course, just a couple months ago I posted this:

"From the mid-1980s to 2005, California's population grew by 10 million, while Medicaid recipients soared by seven million; tax filers paying income taxes rose by just 150,000"

And this:

"With 12% of America's population, California has one third of the nation's welfare recipients."

From this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304537904577277242682364690.html

[Wigmeister General]

Kewl.

[Incredible Hulctuary]

California is a prime example of how too much democracy is destructive.

[Len Myers]

California is a prime example of how too much democracy is destructive.
Sure, and my grandmother used to say
Too much is not good. :judge:
So, my little green man, how much democracy is too much? :popcorn:

[ShebaPoe]

Democracy is mob rule.

That's why the country was founded as a republic with restricted voting; the idea that democracy was mob rule and mob rule produces undesirable (rights-constricting) results is not new, and was well understood by the leading thinkers of the founders' era. Of course, states may govern themselves as they see fit.

I don't favor return to the restricted voting rules of the founders' era. But, one wonders if some restrictions merit consideration. Current law forbids prisoners and many convicted felons from voting. So there is precedent.

As regards CA, it's easily the state with the best geography, climate, terrain and all of that. Hands down. But, government has ruined it, and it will become insolvent.

[Atropellador]

As regards CA, it's easily the state with the best geography, climate, terrain and all of that. Hands down.It's a beautiful state with agreeable weather and few insects, but they have all those earthquakes, and occasional forest fires. And the southern part has to have its water piped in from the north. As for terrain, I hear it was tough building a coastal highway through Big Sur.

[Wigmeister General]

Voting should always be restricted to land owners and business owners exclusively.

[Incredible Hulctuary]

Voting should always be restricted to land owners and business owners exclusively.

Who would vote for laws that give tax breaks and subsidies to land owners and business owners and make it more difficult for others to become land owners or business owners.

California's problem is less with too many people being allowed to vote, and much more with what they're allowed to vote for. The citizens' ability to put proposed laws and constitutional amendments on the ballot, and get those laws and amendments passed without a vote by the legislature or the governor's signature practically guaranteed that they'd vote themselves a bunch of freebies without also voting for the taxes to pay for them.

[Standtall]

Who would vote for laws that give tax breaks and subsidies to land owners and business owners and make it more difficult for others to become land owners or business owners.

California's problem is less with too many people being allowed to vote, and much more with what they're allowed to vote for. The citizens' ability to put proposed laws and constitutional amendments on the ballot, and get those laws and amendments passed without a vote by the legislature or the governor's signature practically guaranteed that they'd vote themselves a bunch of freebies without also voting for the taxes to pay for them.

You mean they would give tax breaks to the people that pay the taxes? Those *******s!

[Incredible Hulctuary]

You mean they would give tax breaks to the people that pay the taxes? Those *******s!

Wigmeister didn't say voting should be restricted to taxpayers, or that land owners and business owners should be the only taxpayers.

[2pac Shakur]

It's a beautiful state with agreeable weather and few insects, but they have all those earthquakes, and occasional forest fires. And the southern part has to have its water piped in from the north. As for terrain, I hear it was tough building a coastal highway through Big Sur.

All those earthquakes lol.
I've been here 25 years and have yet to be inconvenienced by a single quake. Meanwhile the rest of the countries is guaranteed at least 3 months of sh*tty weather a year. Probably a hurricane, tornado, noreastern or two along the way.

[2pac Shakur]

California is a prime example of how too much democracy is destructive.

Yea. Legalized pot sure does suck.

[Standtall]

Wigmeister didn't say voting should be restricted to taxpayers, or that land owners and business owners should be the only taxpayers.

If you take out landowners and business owners, how much of a tax base do you think would be left?

[Atropellador]

All those earthquakes lol.
I've been here 25 years and have yet to be inconvenienced by a single quake.25 years means you were there in October 1987 for the Loma Prieta(?) earthquake. But good for you, if you weren't inconvenienced.Meanwhile the rest of the countries is guaranteed at least 3 months of sh*tty weather a year. Probably a hurricane, tornado, noreastern or two along the way.Yeah, that's why I said California has (more) "agreeable weather".

[Dr T Non-Fan]

It is incredibly easy to live here. That needs to be changed.

[Incredible Hulctuary]

If you take out landowners and business owners, how much of a tax base do you think would be left?

The homeownership rate in California is about 55%.

If all state and local and sales taxes in California were paid only by land owners and business owners, how many could afford to keep their land and businesses?

[The Cuddling Wingman]

25 years means you were there in October 1987 for the Loma Prieta(?) earthquake. But good for you, if you weren't inconvenienced.Yeah, that's why I said California has (more) "agreeable weather".

October '89 actually

That was the World Series quake

[The Cuddling Wingman]

The homeownership rate in California is about 55%.

If all state and local and sales taxes in California were paid only by land owners and business owners, how many could afford to keep their land and businesses?

Perhaps the land owners and business owners would cut social services

[Wigmeister General]

0% tax on landowners and business owners
+ 90% tax on tenants and employees.

= Utopia

[2pac Shakur]

25 years means you were there in October 1987 for the Loma Prieta(?) earthquake. But good for you, if you weren't inconvenienced.Yeah, that's why I said California has (more) "agreeable weather".

Didn't impact southern california - so thanks.

[SamCook]

The homeownership rate in California is about 55%.

If all state and local and sales taxes in California were paid only by land owners and business owners, how many could afford to keep their land and businesses?

California has one of the highest income taxes in the country but still can't balance the budget. It sounds like you have a hard time admitting they need to reduce expenditures. All the straw men big business, landowners rich people etc don't matter much here.

Just cut spending its not that hard

[Fish Actuary]

California has one of the highest income taxes in the country but still can't balance the budget. It sounds like you have a hard time admitting they need to reduce expenditures. All the straw men big business, landowners rich people etc don't matter much here.

Just cut spending its not that hard

I thought I'd read that it was hard to cut spending in California because a lot of the budget is mandatory spending that was put in place by various referendums. The only way that spending can be cut or eliminated is if a referendum is passed cutting those mandatory spending items. Or at least that was my impression of the situation in California.

[Incredible Hulctuary]

California has one of the highest income taxes in the country but still can't balance the budget. It sounds like you have a hard time admitting they need to reduce expenditures.

No, I pointed out that their overly democratic model resulted in too much spending.

And it's not so easy to cut their spending, because much of it is required by some of the 500 amendments (yes, it literally has over 500 amendments, thanks to their amendment-by-referendum madness) in their constitution, and other chunks of it are for entrenched obligations like (overly generous) pensions.

[SamCook]

:-(I thought I'd read that it was hard to cut spending in California because a lot of the budget is mandatory spending that was put in place by various referendums. The only way that spending can be cut or eliminated is if a referendum is passed cutting those mandatory spending items. Or at least that was my impression of the situation in California.

That's too bad

:(

[Standtall]

The homeownership rate in California is about 55%.

If all state and local and sales taxes in California were paid only by land owners and business owners, how many could afford to keep their land and businesses?

What percentage of California residents do you believe pays state taxes (on a net basis: Cash they pay in - cash they collect)?

[Len Myers]

Just cut spending its not that hard

In fact, it's impossible.

[RazorGuns]

they tried the scare tactic few years ago to get taxes raised. . the citizens didn't fall for it. Nothing was cut. Just another scare tactic again. I hope voters are not idiots.

and yeah, diversity programs will be safe :)

[Guerilla poster]

Does the wife of a homeowner get to vote?

[George L. Costanza]

Does the wife of a homeowner get to vote?

Only if she does her duty.

[gomer_tree]

California = Greece.

[ElDucky]

They can't legislate money into existence, although they tried with IOU's.

[Mr. B]

As this article points out, the business climate is ugly, and counting on the rich to bail them out of out their fiscal mess is risky, because much of the income of the rich is capital gains, which is a very iffy source of revenue (great during the Internet bubble, not so hot during the housing bust):

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304070304577398560693030608.html?g rcc=f7e57f04727b3adfe2634fdb6fd45d9aZ9ZhpgeZ0Z343Z 69Z10Z9&mod=WSJ_hps_sections_opinion

An unfortunate fact is that more families and businesses are leaving than entering the state. Because of that, the tax base has nowhere to go but down.

This used to be a great place, but I'm not too optimistic about its future. I'm a native-born Californian (and so were my parents, born here in the 1920s), but I may need to find greener pastures some day sooner than I might have hoped.

[Mr. B]

They can't legislate money into existence, although they tried with IOU's.The closest they can come is with issuing bonds, but there's definitely a limit to what the gullible investment community will stomach. And, of course, those bonds have to be paid back, with interest, so it's not free money.

[Andy The Clown]

Yes , let the people who get free money be allowed to vote for more free money.

[Snagus]

California's population - 38 million, employed 16 million
Budget deficit - $16B

USPS employees -0.6 milllion
Budget deficit - $14B
Although I've been told that's all due to congressionally imposed restrictions on mgmt.

[General Apathy]

It's a beautiful state with agreeable weather and few insects, but they have all those earthquakes, and occasional forest fires. And the southern part has to have its water piped in from the north. As for terrain, I hear it was tough building a coastal highway through Big Sur.

Cali has some wonderful parts but a huge portion of it sucks. Mainly the great valley, Death Valley mojave desert nd a whole bunch of mountain ranges that are just dusty brush. People Love SF and Tahoe and the coast etc...

[Incredible Hulctuary]

California's population - 38 million, employed 16 million
Budget deficit - $16B

USPS employees -0.6 milllion
Budget deficit - $14B
Although I've been told that's all due to congressionally imposed restrictions on mgmt.

It doesn't make sense to compare the set of all California's employees public and private and Federal with the set of USPS-only employees.