The Return of the Exam Committee

[Gandalf]

Unvote: Zakarin (only to move us farther from the Quorum rule)

[Macroman]

Unvote: Zakarin (only to move us farther from the Quorum rule)

me too:
Unvote: Zakarin

[J.T.]

Unvote: Zakarin (only to move us farther from the Quorum rule)

me too:
Unvote: Zakarin

I agree. Unvote: Voter

Do ya'll really think Zakarin is EC? Gauging from his/her 1 post (I think it was only one), I don't think this person is EC. We can determine that the EC is also getting rid of the silent ones. HC and Kenshiro were both 2 quiet people in the beginning days of the game. I think the EC will boot Zakarin for us, and in doing so, we still have the opportunity to boot someone else.

We can always boot he/she later.

[Hagbard Celine]

I've already let the student population know that I'm on board.

At this point, I'm waiting for a consensus from the students about how they want to proceed.

[Voter]

Interesting...I invited Ebenezer to a friendly side game of chess two days ago, and he hasn't responded! Seems like he's mad that I figured out he's EC (actually RSF figured it out IIRC, but I've been pushing it).

[the mole]

You can trust Hagbard. I know all about trust. And about eusocial communities, but that's not relevant to the matter at hand.

[Voter]

Why should we trust a prairie dog who claims to be a mole?

[cubedbee]

Voter and Gandalf were speaking up lots at the start, right after H. Celine's killing. Both made me a bit suspicious, but Gandalf was saying things that appeared to make sense. Voter was not, and after all his talking, just jumped on the Macroman bandwagon when that seemed like the person others were going after. I would think he would have more things to say before just following others at a point like that- he had me wondering from the start. For reasons listed earlier this page, though, you made me even more suspicious. Sorry EK.

I agree with your assessment of Gandalf and Voter. Gandalf has put a lot of complex thought into our best strategy and it seems like he has gone to too much effort to be EC (not to mention as far as I can tell his strategies are very sound and the EC will be hurt if we follow them). Voter, on the other hand, has contributed very little except wild accusations at a variety of players. This raised my suspicions at first, but it seems like he is just trying to have fun by his outrageousness. I think he's drawing too much attention to himself to be EC. (Yes, theoretically he could be EC and could be hiding in the open behind his over the top accusations, but as the game progresses I doubt this more and more).

As far as EK goes, I think the original accusations against him had no real basis, but his reactions have made me somewhat suspicious.

As far as Zakarin goes, sorry for my previous post in response to you. That was unneccessarily mean of me to say.

[Maine-iac]

As far as EK goes, I think the original accusations against him had no real basis, but his reactions have made me somewhat suspicious.



I would not necessarily conclude that EK is NOT EC, but I wouldn't put too much weight on his bizarre reactions.

EK is always a bit bizarre. :D

[Ebenezer Kohl]

I agree that Voter was pretty aggressive and suspicious.
And that is how he plays chess. I have no real surprise to see him play it the same here.

Interesting...I invited Ebenezer to a friendly side game of chess two days ago, and he hasn't responded! Seems like he's mad that I figured out he's EC (actually RSF figured it out IIRC, but I've been pushing it).
I made a terrible mistake against RedSoxFan when I was playing SEVEN games at once. I still have three tournament games that matter and I would like to conclude those before I begin with you in a friendly exhibition game. I haven’t declined your invitation and do intend on accepting.
(A chess invitation places a notice on your front screen in chess with “accept” and “decline” on it without any further message. A tournament game is most important, cup game is average, and exhibition is least important. Voter plays fast and I assume he likes playing me because I can almost keep up in pace. We have similar styles and ability.)
EK is always a bit bizarre. :D
I resemble that remark. :D

[42]

First of all, I have to thank Traina and Jables for the recaps. It's nice to know there are others in this game who are just as anal-retentive as I am! :wink:

I agree that Voter was pretty aggressive and suspicious.And that is how he plays chess. I have no real surprise to see him play it the same here.

I agree. I think we see our personalities coming through in many different ways, especially the yakkers vs. the silent ones. Some of us are just gonna run our mouths in this game because that's just the way we are - we've got a quota of words we've gotta get out in a day - otherwise it clogs up the brain - and it doesn't matter whether or not those words make any sense. (Hence, my signature line.) :blah:

Although I am suspicious of Ebenezer, I like Traina's logic the best in voting for Asynchronous. In the last round, only three players did not vote: Aysnchronous, JT, and Kenshiro. In the recap of the round, everybody could see those three lumped together. The EC knew that we were discussing targetting the silent players. If neither of the EC was in that group of three, why take one of them out, even as a bluff? But if either Async or JT was EC, what better way to distract us from them than by making us think the EC will take them out? I was all set to vote for Async, and then I saw this:

Do ya'll really think Zakarin is EC? Gauging from his/her 1 post (I think it was only one), I don't think this person is EC. We can determine that the EC is also getting rid of the silent ones. HC and Kenshiro were both 2 quiet people in the beginning days of the game. I think the EC will boot Zakarin for us, and in doing so, we still have the opportunity to boot someone else.

If one of {Async;JT} is on the EC, I now think it would be JT.

I'll hold off voting until later today so that we don't get to the quorum too soon.

[USCanuck]

Here I am!!! I have a job that's keeping me busy.... I'm behind in reading all of the posts, hence I haven't been contributing much.

My vote is for: Ebenezer

[Cho Da]

42, I know I'll regret this later, but I agree with you here.
The bit about those that run on (and on and on... :) ) is where I think we will be able to find at least one of the EC. The key is to let them run on long enough to be caught being too self serving. (Indeed, this is where the whole "Salt the Slug" thing got going.)

Of course, if neither of the EC is one of the run on types, it is a harder chore.

Anyway, we shouldn't forget a key dynamic, the EC truly needs to protect itself. They can much less afford to lose of of themselves than we can. This is where the quorum rule and the band wagon affect work against the students. The reaction of an EC member when faced with being lynched will likely differ than that of a student. How long will an EC "simmer" a few votes short of being lynched before trying to shift the result to someone else? Lynching an innocent (especially early in the game) has much less downside to us, than lynching an EC does to them.

[Maine-iac]

Perhaps we should look for posters who are not necessarily silent, per se, but strangely silent.

Take Polly Nomial, for instance. Not normally a shy, retiring type, but quite low key in this game. Feigning confusion, or EC?

[Polly Nomial]

Hey! I've just been busy!

Vote: Ebenezer Kohlx

[Voter]

Hey! I've just been busy!

Vote: Ebenezer Kohlx
That would have been more believable if you had waited more than 15 minutes to post a response. :shake:

[Ebenezer Kohl]

Voter ain't too good at Math.

Unvote: JT - to save my own skin!

Can we get some people to unvote me with the understanding they still think I'm EC? The students are attempting NOT to hit the quorum rule!

[Ebenezer Kohl]

USCanuck and Polly Nomial, I see you are both still online. Unvote me!

This a new post so they see the bump.

[Voter]

I don't fear the EC; I fear the students!
That makes sense - if you're EC!

Real students fear the EC AND the students.

Need we debate this any further? He's convicted by his own sig line! :shake:

[Ebenezer Kohl]

You have a vote against me too. Please unvote, Voter. :x

[J.T.]

Although I am suspicious of Ebenezer, I like Traina's logic the best in voting for Asynchronous. In the last round, only three players did not vote: Aysnchronous, JT, and Kenshiro. In the recap of the round, everybody could see those three lumped together. The EC knew that we were discussing targetting the silent players. If neither of the EC was in that group of three, why take one of them out, even as a bluff? But if either Async or JT was EC, what better way to distract us from them than by making us think the EC will take them out? I was all set to vote for Async, and then I saw this:

Do ya'll really think Zakarin is EC? Gauging from his/her 1 post (I think it was only one), I don't think this person is EC. We can determine that the EC is also getting rid of the silent ones. HC and Kenshiro were both 2 quiet people in the beginning days of the game. I think the EC will boot Zakarin for us, and in doing so, we still have the opportunity to boot someone else.

If one of {Async;JT} is on the EC, I now think it would be JT.

I'll hold off voting until later today so that we don't get to the quorum too soon.

I stated earlier why I didn't vote. There was no point in jumping on the bandwagon when the person was already voted out. Unfortunately, I'm not able to check too often on the weekends, since I devote a good portion of that time to studying.

I understand if I am the one you want to vote out, but know that you will be voting out a student, although I will be a helpful ghost, and do all that I can to help the remaining students kill the EC.

I have also noticed there are a lot of people that are posting to the thread, but not really contributing much to the thought process. I try not to post (and you will see this all over the boards) when I don't have something meaningful to say, so I tend to be a quiet one.

[Ebenezer Kohl]

Okay, now RedSoxFan just posted to Games. Are we using the ghost system or aren't we? Unvote me, RedSoxFan.

[Hagbard Celine]

Okay, now RedSoxFan just posted to Games. Are we using the ghost system or aren't we? Unvote me, RedSoxFan.

Yes.

[USCanuck]

USCanuck and Polly Nomial, I see you are both still online. Unvote me!

This a new post so they see the bump.

What do I get in return?

[Ebenezer Kohl]

The intention is to obtain a higher percentage of eliminating EC.

[Asynchronous]

Gee - first I got singled out for not voting, and now we're complaining about actually voting. Geez - ya can't win.

unvote: Cho Da

I'm willing to support a nomination for any of Cho Da, Ebenezer, and Voter, with Cho Da being my current choice.

[Hagbard Celine]

When do I post "ghost results"?

[Hagbard Celine]

Do I wait until the students have narrowed it down to 3-4 or throw everyone with votes into the potential pooL?

[Traina]

I think you can go ahead and throw everyone with votes in the potential pool. And remember don't reveal any details of how you determine your selection...the EC are watching & listening :swear:

[Hagbard Celine]

If I type it tiny like this, maybe the EC won't even be able to see who it is.

Ebenezer Kohlx

[Gandalf]

Hagbard, I think you have lost your mind as well as your body, but we're both on the same team, so

Vote: Ebenezer Kohlx

[Ebenezer Kohl]

Vote: Ebenezer Kohl

[Traina]

Unvote:Asynchronous

Vote: Ebenezer

[Hagbard Celine]

Hagbard, I think you have lost your mind as well as your body, but we're both on the same team, so


I lost my mind a long time ago. :cry:

[urysohn]

Vote: Ebenezer Kohl
I seem to remember someone trying this in an earlier round (uh, YOU!) Just cause you leave the "x" off doesn't make you any less lynched. :evil:

[Gandalf]

Vote: Ebenezer Kohl
The ghosts spoke, yet Ebenezer Kohlx votes for someone besides Ebenezer Kohlx. What stronger evidence could there be?

[Cho Da]

OK. I think we all now agree that EK is a nutjob, but my suspicions fall to Asynchronous and Polly. Why would you vote to lynch yourself?

[J.T.]

Vote: Ebenezer Kohlx

Works for me!

But, I do agree with Cho Da, Polly is suspect. Not sure about Asynchronous.

[Maine-iac]

I dunno. I can see EK falling on his sword if he is a student, but not voting for himself if EC. Still thinking Polly . . .

[Jables]

Going with the ghostly instinct:

UNVOTE: Zakarin
VOTE: Ebenezer Kohlx

[plain M&M]

Going with the ghost's suggestion.

Unvote: duodenum
Vote: Ebenezer Kohlx

[42]

42, I know I'll regret this later, but I agree with you here.Aw, crap! Now I'm gonna have to change my mind. :roll:

[4sigma]

Hey, folks. By my count we are up to 16 votes again and about to trigger our favorite discussion-reducing rule.

Hagbard, thanks for your post. Glad to know you are here and participating.

At this point, I think our goal as students is to select a lynching pool, set a deadline for when we're done with that, and have the ghosts pick a name for us to lynch. Assuming we can avoid becoming a quorum, I would propose that we debate until the end of the day today.

The ghosts could then use whatever mechanism they are using, and determine a final lynchee on Friday morning. That gives us the rest of the day Friday to round up the needed votes, or even the weekend if we need it, in order to make our deadline of early Monday.

If it turns out that the voting goes quickly, we can allow more time for debate next time around.

[4sigma]

An idea to allow names to be tossed around without triggering the quorum thing:

Students (and ghosts) can cast a "preliminary vote" by using RED TEXT. As long as it's not bold, this doesn't count as a vote per Mr. Penguin's rules, so this won't trigger this quorum thing. However, it lets one's voice be heard for the purpose of recommending who should be in the lynching pool.

Once the ghosts have selected and we are in full lynch mode, any such votes would have to be replaced with bolded votes to be valid for the lynching.

Along those lines, the above discussion persuades me for the moment that Zakarin is not particularly exhibiting EC indicators. Though I would encourage him to become more active. My suspicions currently rest with POLLY NOMIAL for her long absence followed by her miraculous appearance once a finger was pointed in her direction. This is indicative of someone who is lurking and following closely yet trying to remain quiet, which would be an excellent EC strategy.

Edited to reflect the popularity of red text.

[42]

Student vote #1 (for sake of examining voting patterns)

And to finish the update:
Now that my internet connection is unFUBARed, I'll update what Traina started:
Ok, I had some free time on my hands, so I've prepared a current timeline of the votes so far. I'll probably do another one after the round is finished. Current votes are indicated in red.

Cho Da votes 42 (early)
Cho Da unvotes 42 votes Macroman
Gandalf votes Macroman
Ahow votes Macroman
Traina. votes Macroman
Voter votes Macroman
CubedBee votes Macroman
Cho Da unvotes Macroman
Rocky votes Voter
Polly Nomial votes Macroman
Ebenezer Kohlx votes Macroman
RedSoxFan votes Ebenezer Kohlx
Anonymouse votes RedSoxFan
Voter unvotes Macroman votes Ebenezer Kohlx
Ahow unvotes Macroman votes Ebenezer Kohlx
Jables votes Anonymouse
All Clear votes Voter
Anonymouse unvotes RedSoxFan
Jables unvotes Anonymouse
cmu_stu votes Gandalf
42 votes Macroman
Zakarin votes Ebenezer Kohlx
Jables votes Gandalf
Anonymouse votes RedSoxFan
Macroman votes werewolf
fallout votes USCanuck

4sigma, Asynchronous, Avi, duodenum, J.T., Kenshiro, Maine-iac, plain M&M, USCanuck & werewolf have not voted as yet.

Disclaimer: This summary has not been audited, use at your own risk.
Werewolf votes Macroman
Macroman unvotes Werewolf and votes cmu_stu
Jables unvotes Gandalf and votes cmu_stu
Anonymouse unvotes RedSoxFan and votes cmu_stu
duodenum votes cmu_stu
Gandalf unvotes Macroman and votes Gandalf
Avi votes cmu_stu
cmu unvotes Gandalf and votes cmu_stu
42 unvotes Macroman and votes cmu_stu


Thus, it looks like we have:

7 votes for cmu_stu (Macroman, Jables, Anonymouse, duodenum, Avi, cmu_stu, 42)
5 votes for Macroman (Traina, CubedBee, PollyNomial, EbenezerKohlx, werewolf)
4 votes for Ebenezer Kohlx (RedSoxFan, Voter, Ahow, Zakarin)
2 votes for Voter (Rocky, AllClear)
1 vote for USCanuck (Fallout)
1 vote for Gandalf (Gandalf)
7 people who haven't voted yet (4sigma, Asynchronous, J.T., Kenshiro, Maine-iac, plain M&M, USCanuck)
1 person who voted and later unvoted (ChoDa)

And, unlike Traina's disclaimer, I work for Arthur Anderson, so you know you can count on my numbers!

Rocky unvotes Voter and votes cmu_stu
CubedBee unvotes Macroman and votes cmu_stu
USCanuck votes Fallout
Ebenezer Kohlx unvotes Macroman and votes cmu_stu
werewolf unvotes Macroman and votes cmu_stu
4sigma votes cmu_stu
plain M&M votes cmu_stu
Voter unvotes Ebenezer Kohlx and votes cmu_stu
ChoDa votes Rocky
Maine-iac votes cmu_stu
ChoDa unvotes Rocky and votes Kenshiro
PollyNomial unvotes Macroman and votes cmu_stu


The final count is:

16 votes for cmu_stu (Maine-iac, Voter, 4Sigma, PlainM&M, EbenezerKohlx, werewolf, CubedBee, Rocky, Macroman, Jables, Anonymouse, duodenum, Avi, cmu_stu, 42, PollyNomial)
3 votes for Ebenezer Kohlx (RedSoxFan, Ahow, Zakarin)
1 vote for Macroman (Traina)
1 vote for Voter (AllClear)
1 vote for USCanuck (Fallout)
1 vote for Gandalf (Gandalf)
1 vote for Fallout (USCanuck)
1 vote for Kenshiro (ChoDa)
3 people who haven't voted yet (Asynchronous, J.T., Kenshiro)

Picking up where 42 left off, summary so far of student vote #2:

Votes votes Ebenezer Kohlx
plain M&M votes duodenum
Rocky votes 4sigma
J.T. votes Voter
Ebenezer Kohlx votes J.T.
All Clear votes Ebenezer Kohlx
Avi votes Cho Da
ahow votes Ebenezer Kohlx
RedSoxFan votes Ebenezer Kohlx
Gandalf votes Zakarin
Macroman votes Zakarin
Traina. votes Asynchronous
Anonymouse votes Zarakin (I have no record of a vote for RSF that he tried to unvote)
Jables votes Zakarin
Rocky unvotes 4sigma and votes Voter
Werewolf votes Ebenezer Kohlx

Thus, it looks like we have:

5 votes for Ebenezer Kohlx (Voter, All Clear, ahow, RedSoxFan, Werewolf)
4 votes for Zakarin (Gandalf, Macroman, Anonymouse, Jables)
2 votes for Voter (J.T., Rocky)
1 vote for duodenum (plain M&M)
1 vote for J.T. (Ebenezer Kohlx)
1 vote for Cho Da (Avi)
1 vote for Asynchronous (Traina.)

10 people who haven't voted yet (42, CubedBee, Maine-iac, Cho Da, USCanuck, Asynchronous, duodenum, Zakarin, 4sigma, Polly Nomial)

Note that Kenshiro was not the slayer. Alas, he was but an innocent student. The death scene was posted at 6:40 est on 3/24. Therefore, the deadline for the quorum rule to take effect is 6:40 est on 3/26 and the deadline for the students to otherwise reach a consensus is 6:40 est on 3/29 (weekend rule). May paranoia reign.

There are 25 remaining players. Therefore 17 are needed for the quorum rule to go into effect. Outside of the quorum rule, 13 are needed for lynching.

We currently have 15 votes in place. Two more would place the quorum rule in effect.

Asynchronous votes for ChoDa
Gandalf unvotes Zakarin
Macroman unvotes Zakarin
JT unvotes Voter
USCanuck votes EbenezerKohlx
PollyNomial votes EbenezerKohlx
EbenezerKohlx unvotes JT
Asynchronous unvotes ChoDa
Gandalf votes EbenezerKohlx
EbenezerKohlx votes EbenezerKohl(x?)
Traina unvotes Asynchronous and votes EbenezerKohlx
JT votes EbenezerKohlx
Jables unvotes Zakarin and votes EbenezerKohlx
Plain M&M unvotes duodenum and votes EbenezerKohlx


Totals:

13 votes for EbenezerKohlx (Voter, AllClear, ahow, RedSoxFan, Werewolf, USCanuck, PollyNomial, Gandalf, EbenezerKohlx, Traina, JT, Jables, PlainM&M)
1 vote for ChoDa (Avi)
1 vote for Zakarin (Anonymouse)
1 vote for Voter (Rocky)

9 people who have not voted or have voted and unvoted (42, CubedBee, Maine-iac, ChoDa, duodenum, Zakarin, 4sigma, Macroman, Asynchronous)

[Voter]

At this point, I think our goal as students is to select a lynching pool, set a deadline for when we're done with that, and have the ghosts pick a name for us to lynch.

HELLO! MCFLY!

The ghost has spoken. Why are you trying to protect Ebenezer???

[4sigma]

Edited because I hadn't read the tiny print in Hagbard's post, above.

Ok, so the ghosts have spoken. I think it is early for the ghosts to be speaking. We have 72 to hours to perform a lynching. Time that should be spent rooting out who is EC. We are now voluntarily forgoing a lot of time that could be spent getting EC to talk and identify themselves.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I have discovered a truly marvelous method of determining who is on the EC, but unfortunately the margin of this post is too small to contain it.

[Traina]

They've already protected our slayer.

[Hagbard Celine]

See here (http://www.actuary.ca/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=26362&start=529)

[Voter]

If I type it tiny like this, maybe the EC won't even be able to see who it is.

Ebenezer Kohlx
What part of this don't you understand, 4s?

[4sigma]

Fair enough. I respect the voice of the ghosts.

Vote: Ebenezer Kohlx. Although I still think he's just a nutjob, not necessarily EC.

Voter. Nothing in it I didn't understand. I didn't read the tiny print because it didn't occur to me that we'd be ending discussion and lynching someone this early. We had until early Monday morning, after all. Why are we giving up several days of potential discussion time, during which we should be getting EC to talk?

[Ebenezer Kohl]

Unvote: Ebenezer Kohl - This should have been good enough.
Vote: Ebenezer Kohlx

Hagbard is official. I hate the x on my name and will soon remove it.

[42]

The ghost has spoken. Why are you trying to protect Ebenezer???

Thanks, Voter. I almost missed that. In Donald Trump's voice, EK, you're fired! Vote: Ebenezer Kohlx

[Maine-iac]

All right. I think the ghosts may be off here, but I defer to their better information.

Vote: Ebenezer Kohlx

[cubedbee]

I missed that small print too. I think in the future the ghost(s) should announce more clearly who we are lynching. The EC knows our general strategy anyway, and just look at all the confusion the tiny print caused.

Not that it matters, but Vote: Ebenezer Kohlx

[Asynchronous]

Sounds like a plan.

Vote: Ebenezer Kohlx

[Hagbard Celine]

I apologize for the small print:

Ebenezer Kohlx

And who says this wasn't a random selection (or weighted random)? :-?

Just be assured, it isn't the Slayer.

[4sigma]

OK, we have 18 votes now for EK, more than enough for a lynching. Though anyone else is welcome to join the bandwagon so that they don't appear to be quiet types. :)

Now that we've done our lynching, I would like to say that I think we need to act more slowly in the future. We had until Monday morning to perform our lynching. We have acted nearly 3 1/2 days before we had to. This 3 1/2 days could have been spent putting some heat on potential EC members, and seeing how they respond.

We put a bit of heat on Zakarin, but he didn't show up to defend himself. The only other person we put any serious heat on was EK and we lynched him. Did we learn anything about who might be EC? Perhaps a bit. Maybe EK is EC and we got lucky. I still think he's just a nutjob. But we had lots of time to be learning more, and we've now wasted that.

I would like to set some sort of deadline in the future for how long to continue discussion, vs. when the discussion is complete and it is time for the ghosts to act. I would recommend that we allow at least 48 hours for our discussion. We have just seen that we are able to round up the necessary votes for a lynching in very short order.

[Ebenezer Kohl]

Just be assured, it isn't the Slayer.
Of course, if I were the Slayer, it would be better to lynch me now that I am drawing so much attention so that the students can gain a more undercover Slayer.

[cubedbee]

I could be wrong, but it seemed to me the main reason Hagberd made the decision so early was that we were hovering on the brink of quorum for a while and it is better to have the Ghost pick a non-slayer than to accidently trigger quorum. 4sigma's suggestion about our early votes was right on. We can all vote in a color (I prefer red to green since I can see it easier while scanning the pages). There is no reason for us to ever cast a bold vote before the Ghost has spoken, and we will not have to worry about the quorum rule. We do need to spend more time on our lynchings. Shorter rounds are definitely to the ECs advantage.

[4sigma]

I could be wrong, but it seemed to me the main reason Hagberd made the decision so early was that we were hovering on the brink of quorum for a while and it is better to have the Ghost pick a non-slayer than to accidently trigger quorum. 4sigma's suggestion about our early votes was right on. We can all vote in a color (I prefer red to green since I can see it easier while scanning the pages). There is no reason for us to ever cast a bold vote before the Ghost has spoken, and we will not have to worry about the quorum rule. We do need to spend more time on our lynchings. Shorter rounds are definitely to the ECs advantage.

Agreed that red is easier to read. Let's use this in future rounds to avoid creating undue pressure on our ghosts to act prematurely.

[Traina]

I don't really see that the green (or red) preliminary voting business is necessary. I'm more in favor of keeping things simple.

If people feel stongly enough about voting for someone, they should just vote in bold.

Of course we need to get away from the early bandwagon effect, so if you want to vote for someone, and their name has already been brought forward, then don't vote until near the deadline. However, if you suspect someone else, then by all means vote.

[Voter]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the word "lynching" imply a heated action with insufficient evidence, rather than a calm deliberation over the longest time possible?

[Cho Da]

We've lynched EK, but what have learned? What motivates a nutjob?


Polly? JT? anonymouse? Voter?

[4sigma]

Traina,

I agree that the red text thing is more complicated than I would like. I'd rather just DUMP THE QUORUM RULE. I think we've demonstrated that we don't need it. In the space of 36 hours, all but 2 of the players (duodenum, Zakarim) posted to this thread. Also with our ghost strategy, I don't foresee any possible deadlocks as the deadline looms.

However, if we can't prevail upon Mr. Penguin to ditch this quorum rule, then we need some mechanism to prevent activating it through our mob mentality. That's the usefulness of the RED TEXT suggestion. Or if you think we can avoid invoking this quorum think some easier way, I'm all ears.

[Cho Da]

Of course if the text is merely red, instead of bold, the EC under the gun has little to fear.

[Gandalf]

Of course if the text is merely red, instead of bold, the EC under the gun has little to fear.The EC should be just as concerned about red, given its meaning. The ghost will choose from among the names with the most red votes, then the red votes for one person become black. So many red votes are a strong peril to the EC.

Red for the EC blood we will spill. Black as the EC soul. Good choice.

[42]

I'm on board with red. Maybe even big red, for those of us with poor eyesight. :oops:

[Ebenezer Kohl]

You could always bold the red. ;)

[J.T.]

Ebenezer, will you have a death scene?

I agree that we should probably spend more time debating who to put up to the ghosts, but we have to give them enough time to debate. As more ghosts exist, there will be more deliberation time for them. Since they are also debating in PM's, it will take longer for them to decide. We want to make sure that we give them enough time to debate, especially if they are God forbid, working. We also may have trouble getting the votes if some of us get busy at work or over the weekends, so we have to be careful how long we wait. We have to be sure (I believe referring to Gandalf's strategy) that we lynch someone.

I don't know about the quorum rule, if Penguin will dump it or not, but if we have no other option, then perhaps we should go with the red or green idea.

[Ebenezer Kohl]

Ebenezer, will you have a death scene?
I PMed it to Mr. Penguin. I don't know if he posts it or tells me to post it.

[Hagbard Celine]

Mr. P seems to be MIA. He still hasn't read a PM I sent him earlier this morning.

[Voter]

I agree that we should probably spend more time debating who to put up to the ghosts, but we have to give them enough time to debate.
Why? The only purpose of the GHOST - no 's' - is to help us avoid lynching the slayer. If the slayer has revealed him/herself to Hagbard, then there's nothing to debate. Hagbard just picks someone who has votes and isn't the slayer. Gives quite a bit of power to Hagbard, but most of us seem to be OK with that.

[urysohn]

[quote="Ethereal Ebenezer Kohl"]...[quote]
Word of warning on changing your name upon "death"...unlike the last time around, glenn can no longer correct your name. Once you change it, you can't get it back.

[Ebenezer Kohl]

I hope Mr. Penguin excuses my posting the speech. I was aware that I couldn’t go back to EKx but it is good to mention to the others.

The blame of my untimely demise falls squarely on my personality as Maine-iac has indicated. Perhaps others saw guilt in my actions. Perhaps they could see the logic I would use to eliminate Hagbard Celine and Kenshiro. Ouch. Hey, is there anyway we can do this painless? OUCH. Please people, I’ve gotta speech to give. OUCH!!! Screw you guys, I’m outta here!!!!!!!!!

I take off in a run down the sidewalk where I see the good old wizard, Gandalf, WHO THROWS A BANANA PEEL IN FRONT OF ME. Steady on my feet, I hit the brakes in time to avoid the nasty spill that could have caused a broken hip and a possible concussion. As I turn to ask Gandalf why, a wrecking ball, ala my chess buddies, comes swooping down and swipes my head.

Stunned and sure that was the death of me, I turn to see fallout, cmu_stu, and Kenshiro in a bar drinking beer, and watching March Madness on the tube. Hagbard is there too, drinking a Sam Adams, beside him an empty stool and a Shiner on the bar. Parched, I sit down and reach for what I am sure is my beer.

Hagbard, without looking at me, grabs the Shiner and says with a serious gruff tone, “We wait to see what Mr. Penguin has to report.”

[J.T.]

I agree that we should probably spend more time debating who to put up to the ghosts, but we have to give them enough time to debate.
Why? The only purpose of the GHOST - no 's' - is to help us avoid lynching the slayer. If the slayer has revealed him/herself to Hagbard, then there's nothing to debate. Hagbard just picks someone who has votes and isn't the slayer. Gives quite a bit of power to Hagbard, but most of us seem to be OK with that.

Perhaps I am unaware, but I thought that all of the ghosts were deciding who to lynch, so one ghost didn't have all of the power. Maybe I'm wrong, but Hagbard or stu could clear that up.

[Hagbard Celine]

Well, as far as I know, I'm the only ghost to know the slayer's identity...at least I was yeserday.

Therefore, the ultimate decision has to lie with me if I am to continue to protect the slayer's identity. So, in effect, I am all powerful.

A scary thought.

I'm not going to divulge the method used to select the person, but I will say the ghost(s) discussed who should be in the final pool based on the students' voting.

[Voter]

Perhaps I am unaware, but I thought that all of the ghosts were deciding who to lynchThat wasn't the role of the ghosts as originally envisioned. We're supposed to provide candidates, the trusted ghost picks one of them who isn't the slayer. That's how it was initially described.

[Voter]

I was wrong. Gandalf said:
Here’s how I see it working:
The slayer identifies himself to the ghost(s). In the general discussion phase, the students (including EC) identify 4 likely lynchees, not a single one. The ghosts announce which of those 4 is to by lynched. Then a majority votes for that victim.
Still, though, I don't see why the ghosts need significant time to debate it. The only information they have that we don't is the identity of the slayer.

It could also work the other way around - the ghosts select 4 candidates, none of whom are the slayer, and we pick the lynchee. Might be fun to alternate the two methods. Thoughts?

[4sigma]

Different versions have been kicked around. Gandalf's original version discussed ghosts (plural). I mentioned shortly thereafter that we might prefer to just use a single ghost, which Gandalf indicated he had been planning to suggest once people were on board. Several subsequent posts have talked about single ghosts and/or multiple ghosts.

So I can see why there's been some confusion. At this point I think we have got a single ghost (Hagbard) protecting the identity of the slayer. It appears that the other ghosts have some input with him but the exact selection process remains obscure, which is probably good.

I would again like to recommend that we set some timelines for debate. What does everyone think of roughly 48 hours for debate followed by lining up the lynching in the last 24 hours? This would have to be subject to Hagbard's availability. Maybe after each death scene, Hagbard gives us some sort of deadline as to when he will perform his selection procedure?

[Avi]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the word "lynching" imply a heated action with insufficient evidence, rather than a calm deliberation over the longest time possible?Hmmmm, EC talk? Trying to prevent us from using scientific logic to uncover the EC?

[Gandalf]

It could also work the other way around - the ghosts select 4 candidates, none of whom are the slayer, and we pick the lynchee. Might be fun to alternate the two methods. Thoughts?
Voter, if you are not EC you should not suggest ideas so favorable to the EC. Now they have no firm information on who is not the ghost. Your way would eliminate 4 potential slayers. If next time additional information changed who was the ghosts wanted to propose, even more would be proven to be non-slayers.

[edited to change "ghosts" to "slayers", correcting typo identified by Macroman below]

[Macroman]

It could also work the other way around - the ghosts select 4 candidates, none of whom are the slayer, and we pick the lynchee. Might be fun to alternate the two methods. Thoughts?
Voter, if you are not EC you should not suggest ideas so favorable to the EC. Now they have no firm information on who is not the ghost. Your way would eliminate 4 potential ghosts. If next time additional information changed who was the ghosts wanted to propose, even more would be proven to be non-slayers.

you mean "who is not the slayer", Gandalf? We all know who the ghosts are.

[42]

Good work, Gandalf. Sounds like more EC talk from Voter. Avi, you get the rope and I'll find a tree! :wink:

[4sigma]

42, Here, use this:

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/hanged.gif

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Notice which slug and lizard, excuse me, wizard, are trying to steer the discussion here? How many EC members have been caught?

[Kenshiro]

I think it's best if a single ghost continues to make the final decision and is the only one to know the identity of the slayer. There's less risk.

If all the ghosts continue to "vote," it gives a pool of voters who are untainted by the vile EC, so perhaps HC should give them more weight.

With the ghosts still able to participate, it decreases the ECs motivation to kill threats. Unless the EC really slips up, they should be almost impossible to detect (at least until one of them is identified.) It might be best if HC just randomly selects from every remaining student, with only a slight bias towards those receiving the most votes.

[Gandalf]

Good work, Gandalf. Sounds like more EC talk from Voter. Avi, you get the rope and I'll find a tree! :wink:
That it does, but it is too blatant. Despite great provocation on multiple occasions, I still tend to believe Voter is merely misguided, not EC.

Notice which slug and lizard, excuse me, wizard, are trying to steer the discussion here? How many EC members have been caught?
Interesting question. As I read EK's death scene, he did not say he was an innocent student. (I thought he was not EC.)

Surely you cannot think the slug and I are both EC. At least one of us would intentionally have betrayed his "partner" by now.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Surely you cannot think the slug and I are both EC. At least one of us would intentionally have betrayed his "partner" by now.

Maybe your diabolical plans are more insidious than I might ever have expected. And don't call me "Shirley".

But just to prove there are no hard feelings . . . Could this tool (http://www.jibble.org/piespy/) be applied to figure out who's in cahoots with whom?

[4sigma]

I think it's best if a single ghost continues to make the final decision and is the only one to know the identity of the slayer. There's less risk.

If all the ghosts continue to "vote," it gives a pool of voters who are untainted by the vile EC, so perhaps HC should give them more weight. Kenshiro,

I think this is a promising strategy, though it has both upside and downside. The upside is that it reduces the increasing influence that each EC vote otherwise gets, as the pool of students diminishes.

With the ghosts still able to participate, it decreases the EC's motivation to kill threats. Unless the EC really slips up, they should be almost impossible to detect (at least until one of them is identified.) Agreed. What's the point of killing someone, if they can still vote to lynch you after they're dead? But this is possibly a downside to the strategy. I think we want EC to have a motive to execute people that are clamoring to lynch an EC member. Because this gives us a possible way to identify EC members. Of course, EC can also lynch people who are clamoring to lynch an innocent student, in an effort to misdirect us. So this downside may or may not be a big deal. Still, anything we can do that gives EC an incentive to act non-randomly gives us hope that we may identify them by their actions.

It might be best if HC just randomly selects from every remaining student, with only a slight bias towards those receiving the most votes. I think there should still be a strong bias towards lynching those receiving votes. Because when we have votes for someone that is actually EC, that person should feel the pressure coming. In an effort to save themselves, we may discern clues that they are EC.

-=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=-

In summary, I would encourage ghosts (ghosts that don't know who the slayer is, of course) to vote in RED TEXT along with the rest of us, at the start of each lynching round. Hagbard is welcome to give these votes whatever weight he feels is appropriate, and it's fine with me if we never find out exactly what that is. However, I urge that more votes = increased likelihood of lynching. If the chances of being lynched are totally random and have nothing to do with the votes, then this entire game becomes nothing more than a glorified random simulation. What is the fun in winning that? Perhaps it is the same fun as winning at the lottery, craps, roulette, or slot machines. Hmmm. But wouldn't you rather win at something where your skill can give you an edge, like blackjack or poker?

[Voter]

Voter, if you are not EC you should not suggest ideas so favorable to the EC. Now they have no firm information on who is not the ghost. Your way would eliminate 4 potential slayers.
Never mind! :duh:
Despite great provocation on multiple occasions, I still tend to believe Voter is merely misguided, not EC.
Exactly! My motto - post first, think later. :P

[Mr. Penguin]

My apologies for being MIA yesterday. I hadn't planned on being out and my cable modem at home went kerflooey.

BTW, when lynched, students should identify whether they are EC, Slayer or Innocent Student.

And alas, Ebenezer Kohlx was but an innocent student.

There should be a splaying by the end of the day.

[J.T.]

My apologies for being MIA yesterday. I hadn't planned on being out and my cable modem at home went kerflooey.

BTW, when lynched, students should identify whether they are EC, Slayer or Innocent Student.

And alas, Ebenezer Kohlx was but an innocent student.

There should be a splaying by the end of the day.

A splaying sounds interesting....what does that entail?

[Mr. Penguin]

My apologies for being MIA yesterday. I hadn't planned on being out and my cable modem at home went kerflooey.

BTW, when lynched, students should identify whether they are EC, Slayer or Innocent Student.

And alas, Ebenezer Kohlx was but an innocent student.

There should be a splaying by the end of the day.

A splaying sounds interesting....what does that entail?

:P I think the correct question is, what does that entrail?

[Voter]

Note to slayer: the case against Polly Nomial seems pretty good. :)

[Cho Da]

Note to slayer: the case against Polly Nomial seems pretty good. :)And the case against Voter is getting stronger everytime he posts.

[Voter]

Note to slayer: the case against Polly Nomial seems pretty good. :)And the case against Voter is getting stronger everytime he posts.Let's see...I'm behaving just like I always do. Everyone else has figured that out. :roll:

CHO DA IS CLU_L_SS

Maybe if you buy a vowel you can figure that one out! :lol:

As already pointed out, though, Polly is NOT behaving as she normallly does. That IS suspicious.

[Gandalf]

Note to world: Polly Nomial's body against mine seems pretty good.

[42]

It's that sweet, innocent, demure avatar of hers that makes it seem like she could never be on the evil EC. Which is exactly why we should suspect her the most!

And I was just teasing Voter (hence, the winky face behind my comment).

[RedSoxFan]

And alas, Ebenezer Kohlx was but an innocent student.


dang. guess i was wrong.


There should be a splaying by the end of the day.

I think he means spaying.


By the way, don't forget to make your RPS moves.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

It's that sweet, innocent, demure avatar of hers that makes it seem like she could never be on the evil EC. Which is exactly why we should suspect her the most!

As opposed to a slimy alien slug? Do I see The Purloined Letter at work here?

[Maine-iac]

Everyone knows Gandalf and Polly are thick as theives. Perhaps they got together at one of those cozy, intimate EC MEETINGS???????

Or, Polly could be working with the slug, with Gandalf as the innocent dupe to Polly's Mata Hari.

[the mole]

Trust no one. Except me, of course. But you can't trust slimy aliens.

[Hagbard Celine]

EK, pull up your chair and claim your Shiner! :beer:

UConn made short work of Vandy.

[Ebenezer Kohl]

Go Saint Joes! :D

[42]

Trust no one. Except me, of course. But you can't trust slimy aliens.Bite me, dirt breath! :evil:

[Zakarin]

Yikes! I dissapear for a day and allmost get lynched!

The reason for my silece is that I'm currently switching jobs and have to quiclky finish all the lovley hard work that I'm supposed to be doing while I'm really playing chess.. I was hoping to catch up to everything either tonight or tomorrow... this lynching moved way faster than I though it would (or could for that matter)

[Gandalf]

Are we sure Ebenezer was neither EC nor slayer? After this game started, he took out Traina. in favor of urysohn in this thread:
http://www.casact.org/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=14&t=003985&p=

I'm been protecting mainly WC Chicks, including Polly :love:, in that thread. Maine-iac has avoided posting results involving EC game players. Does that mean she's EC maintaining a low profile?

[Macroman]

Yikes! I dissapear for a day and allmost get lynched!

The reason for my silece is that I'm currently switching jobs and have to quiclky finish all the lovley hard work that I'm supposed to be doing while I'm really playing chess.. I was hoping to catch up to everything either tonight or tomorrow... this lynching moved way faster than I though it would (or could for that matter)

almost??

[Traina]

Are we sure Ebenezer was neither EC nor slayer? After this game started, he took out Traina. in favor of urysohn in this thread:
http://www.casact.org/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=14&t=003985&p=



You guys are nuts :shake:

[urysohn]

Are we sure Ebenezer was neither EC nor slayer? After this game started, he took out Traina. in favor of urysohn in this thread:
http://www.casact.org/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=14&t=003985&p=



You guys are nuts :shake:
You're just bitter because I somehow managed to avenge my RPS loss, even though I didn't know it :D

[Traina]

No...you guys are just nuts! :D

[Traina]

Anyway, I probably won't be in RPS much longer, not with the beating I've been getting from Tom Servo.

[urysohn]

Maybe you should try throwing Rock. Nothing beats good old Rock. :P

[Tom Servo]

Anyway, I probably won't be in RPS much longer, not with the beating I've been getting from Tom Servo.That's what happens when you go up against the EC.

BTW, I'm surprised that more people aren't paying attention to the Jedi. I agree with him 100%. The slug must be salted!

[Jables]

There I sat, posting mindlessly on the Rebel Forum (as usual), putting off grading exams yet again... "Hahaha, all those powerless students," I thought. "Let's hold onto those passing candidate numbers over the weekend before we release them." I heard the door to the EC board room open behind me, but thought nothing of it...certainly it is just my EC partner. Nobody would suspect me of anything, not yet at least. Jables is "Just Another Bandwagon-Led Exam Sufferer", or so I'd have them believe. Without warning, I was stabbed repeatedly from behind with several #2 pencils by the Slayer. Before dying of lead posioning, I had just enough time to post:

"My EC partner will avenge my death and see to it that you all receive 5*'s on your next exams!" :swear:

[Voter]

Is this legit? If so, way to go slayer! :crazy:

[Hagbard Celine]

Yes, well done indeed. :judge:

[Ebenezer Kohl]

The slayer is impressive. :notworth:

[Jables]

No sh*t. :moon2:

[cubedbee]

WooHoo! :clap: We have an awesome slayer!

[J.T.]

WooHoo! :clap: We have an awesome slayer!

Agreed!!! Way to go slayer!!!! :tup:

[Asynchronous]

Come on students - let's celebrate!!!

:party:

And don't forget to flog his wormy carcass!!

:horse:

[Traina]

Oh my goodness!!! That's fantastic. :notworth: :party: :wav:

[Mr. Penguin]

I would like to point out that there have been no entries in the Red Swingline game. With one EC dead, now might be the time to submit your entries.

[4sigma]

Way to go, slayer!!!!!

:party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party:

[Ebenezer Kohl]

EC: Jables & J.T.

[Traina]

Jables & RedSoxFan

[Kenshiro]

Jables & RedSoxFan

I wanted to pick those. :(

Jables & Cho Da

[Asynchronous]

Jables & Cho Da

[Asynchronous]

Kenshiro - Nice trigger finger.

Assuming I get to change my guess, I pick

Jables & Traina.

[cubedbee]

Jables and Anonymouse

[4sigma]

Jables & Polly Nomial

[Rocky]

Nice shot, slayer!

(Not that I'm a bad judge of character, but I was sure that Jables was our slayer! D'oh! :duh: )...

:toast: :beer: :toast: :beer::toast: :beer::toast: :beer::toast: :beer: :toast:

Hagbard...buy that slayer a cold one!

[RedSoxFan]

Maybe you should try throwing Rock. Nothing beats good old Rock. :P

That's what Sunny threw at me. For every single throw. Once I figured that out though it didn't take me long to throw some papers.

[RedSoxFan]

Jables and Voter

[Macroman]

Jables and Polly Nomial


Might as well take a shot.

[4sigma]

Jables and Polly Nomial


Might as well take a shot.Try again. I already posted that combo. I appreciate your vote of confidence for Polly, though.

I hope any resident wizards don't take this personally.

[Macroman]

Jables and Polly Nomial


Might as well take a shot.

Oops, assuming that I get another guess:

Jables and Avi

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

One word for all of you: Slug.

[Ebenezer Kohl]

Unofficial Update:

42
Traina (Asynchronous)
RedSoxFan (Traina)
CubedBee
Voter (RedSoxFan)
plain M&M
Maine-iac
Cho Da (Kenshiro)
Gandalf
Avi (Macroman)
Ahow
USCanuck
Asynchronous
duodenum
All Clear
Zakarin
Rocky
Anonymouse (CubedBee)
Macroman
4sigma (Polly Nomial)
Polly Nomial (4sigma)
J.T. (Ebenezer Kohl)
Werewolf

Hagbard Celine - Slain by EC - Innocent Student
Kenshiro - Slain by EC - Innocent Student
fallout - Slain by The Slayer - Innocent Student
Jables - Slain by the Slayer - EC
cmu_stu - Lynched by students - Innocent Student
Ebenezer Kohl - Lynched by students - Innocent Student

[Jables]

http://apotheosis.tv/files/ecjables.jpg
Since I'm dead and ineligible for the Swingline, there's not much I can contribute to this thread...but I'll definitely still read up on it.

To anyone who missed out on entering this game or to anyone who exited early, there's already talk buzzing about running it again after exams are over. Until then, I still must side with the EC... you students will inevitably meet your demise!

[Jables]

Regarding EK's post above mine, dead students are also able to post EC predictions (EK himself has done so), it's not just those that are alive who can do it...

Anything of course, to create some confusion amongst you all :D

[Ebenezer Kohl]

Anything of course, to create some confusion amongst you all :D
My first thought was "What is confusing about that?" and then with a little more thought I'm totally confused! :shake:

[Gandalf]

Great work, slayer! :tup:

I don't know how you did it. He would have been only about average on my EC list; alas, I have no strong suspects.

[Ebenezer Kohl]

Gandalf, EC members can guess too. :roll:

[11pecans]

Gandalf is so EC!!!! You innocent students should lynch him in a heart beat, and finish the game.

[Gandalf]

Great work, slayer! :tup:

I don't know how you did it. He would have been only about average on my EC list; alas, I have no strong suspects.

Gandalf, EC members can guess too. :roll:
Are you suggesting that the slayer is the remaining EC, who was guessing who his EC partner was? I think Cho Da was accurate with his nutcase diagnosis.

Meanwhile, ironically, Jables took out Hagbard on the WC:
http://www.casact.org/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=14&t=003985&p=2

Since Hagbard might be consulting with the slayer on who too hit, it's only appropriate that Jables was taken down here.

[Jables]

Meanwhile, ironically, Jables took out Hagbard on the WC:
http://www.casact.org/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=14&t=003985&p=2

Since Hagbard might be consulting with the slayer on who too hit, it's only appropriate that Jables was taken down here.

I saw that from your other link you posted today. Even though that happened first, I consider it my revengeanceful (http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail85.html) victory...

[Rocky]

What the heck:

Jables and Maine-iac sitting in a tree, both are totally EC...only because I was too slow to vote for Voter or 4sigma

[4sigma]

only because I was too slow to vote for Voter or 4sigma
Actually, nobody's voted for me yet. Anyone who wants to be guaranteed not to win the stapler is still welcome to. :D

[Macroman]

Actually, nobody's voted for me yet. Anyone who wants to be guaranteed not to win the stapler is still welcome to. :D

The same is true for me. I think that's strange considering the number of people who were eager to lynch me right out of the gate.

It would appear that the slayer has two methods to win the stapler. First by posting in orange text but also by slaying someone who was not selected in orange text by a student. Clarification?

If this interpretation is correct then the slayer has incentive to slay players not selected in orange.

[urysohn]

I find it amazing how many clues Mr P has left about the identity of the remaining EC (:wave:). Can't say you weren't warned about any vague rules.

Just as a reminder to poor innocent plain M&M to be prepared:

- I regret to inform you that plain M&M will be the next player executed by the EC, once you've managed to lynch and slay one of your own.
This execution will be particularly excrutiating as a reminder of what happens when you mess with the EC :evil:

[4sigma]

If this interpretation is correct then the slayer has incentive to slay players not selected in orange.

Exactly. Hence my clarification that nobody's voted for me yet. :)

However, the students have a strong incentive to hurry up and vote for someone. Since there are 27 innocent students, and less than that many people who could potentially be the 2nd EC, those who wait too long will find themselves with nobody at all to vote for. Admittedly slightly unfair, but it rewards people who follow the thread regularly, which is as good as any other arbitrary method.

[Cho Da]

only because I was too slow to vote for Voter or 4sigma
Actually, nobody's voted for me yet. Anyone who wants to be guaranteed not to win the stapler is still welcome to. :D4sigmaand Jables

[Cho Da]

I must be 95% confidant, eh?
4sigmaand Jables

[Jables]

Cho Da: http://apotheosis.tv/files/ecpenguin.jpg

[Rocky]

only because I was too slow to vote for Voter or 4sigma
Actually, nobody's voted for me yet. Anyone who wants to be guaranteed not to win the stapler is still welcome to. :D

D'oh...that's the last time I trust a bouncing marshmallows vote summary...If I hadn't gone orange all ready, I'd put my 95% confidence in 4sigma being the only one mourning jack black's demise...

[Rocky]

I find it amazing how many clues Mr P has left about the identity of the remaining EC (:wave:). Can't say you weren't warned about any vague rules.

Just as a reminder to poor innocent plain M&M to be prepared:

- I regret to inform you that plain M&M will be the next player executed by the EC, once you've managed to lynch and slay one of your own.
This execution will be particularly excrutiating as a reminder of what happens when you mess with the EC :evil:

You were half right (about the lynching), but the slayer didn't get "one of our own...

[Jables]

Unbeknownst to them, the exam committee had been hijacked by a band of students desperate to keep the other students from obtaining their FROAS. This band, not content with merely changing grade reports, set out to execute the remaining students.

Well, I *am* a student...

[4sigma]

I must be 95% confidant, eh?
4sigmaand JablesDude, you just lost yourself a stapler. Or ... maybe your vote cannot gain you one? Anyone voting for someone as obviously innocent as myself, well clearly they're just wasting a vote.

Let's see -- who has nothing to gain by voting, and can afford to waste a vote? Hmmm. Who can vote but can't actually win the stapler that way? Can you say, "EC"? (I knew you could.)

95% confidant? Only if you're the 95%-confidant of Jables. :wink:

only because I was too slow to vote for Voter or 4sigma Actually, nobody's voted for me yet. Anyone who wants to be guaranteed not to win the stapler is still welcome to. :D
D'oh...that's the last time I trust a bouncing marshmallows vote summary...If I hadn't gone orange all ready, I'd put my 95% confidence in 4sigma being the only one mourning jack black's demise...Well, don't feel too bad. You actually have a chance to win the stapler now, as opposed to the zero chance you would have had if you've voted for me. You can thank your bouncing marshmallow.

[Gandalf]

Jables and 42We can't let the slug feel unloved. Plus this may get him to pick me, and I know he's screwed that way.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

At last! The first signs of strain in the slug/wizard axis of evil!

[urysohn]

You were half right (about the lynching), but the slayer didn't get "one of our own...
Well, I can't really control the actions of the slayer, only mete out suitable punishment for his/her slaying.

[Kenshiro]

Kenshiro was busy studying for his FROAS exams and trying to puzzle out the deaths of some of his fellow students. He thought he had finally puzzled out who had killed his fellow student, Hagbard Celine. Suddenly, the door creaked open, and two figures cloaked in shadow entered his room. Was one of them wearing a strangely pointed hat with eyes that almost seemed to glow? The figures moved closer, and he recognized one of them. "You?... No!"

As the knife slipped into his chest, his last thought was that he had to warn his fellow students somehow. With his last strength, he stumbled over to a conveniently placed sundial and flung one outstretched arm towards the "W" and the other towards the "S."

Alas, Kenshiro is dead.

The "W" and the "S" obviously stood for Waterworld and Shallow Hal. At least the Slayer was smart enough to figure this out. I think the other clue will soon become apparent as well.

[USCanuck]

USCanuck, you're not from West Palm Beach, Florida, are you?



Sorry, been really busy with work, and only now getting caught up on what's happening. No, I am not from WPB

[Macroman]

I find it amazing how many clues Mr P has left about the identity of the remaining EC (:wave:). Can't say you weren't warned about any vague rules.

Just as a reminder to poor innocent plain M&M to be prepared:

- I regret to inform you that plain M&M will be the next player executed by the EC, once you've managed to lynch and slay one of your own.
This execution will be particularly excrutiating as a reminder of what happens when you mess with the EC :evil:

I gather that I have nothing to fear then.

[USCanuck]

Jables and Gandalf

[urysohn]

I find it amazing how many clues Mr P has left about the identity of the remaining EC (:wave:). Can't say you weren't warned about any vague rules.

Just as a reminder to poor innocent plain M&M to be prepared:

- I regret to inform you that plain M&M will be the next player executed by the EC, once you've managed to lynch and slay one of your own.
This execution will be particularly excrutiating as a reminder of what happens when you mess with the EC :evil:

I gather that I have nothing to fear then.
Why would I execute you when your fellow students are well poised to lynch you? :-?

[Avi]

Jables and CubedBee

[the mole]

Jables and urysohn.

[Jables]

Jables and the mole

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

The mole and urysohn.

[the mole]

Jables and the mole

The mole and urysohn.Trust me. I am not EC. I did not join this game because it is so important to me that everyone trust me.

The only thing worse than being called an untrustworthy EC would be assertions that I would be EC with the slug.

[4sigma]

Stapler contest -- Unofficial Non-Marshmallow Update:

So far, proper votes have been cast for:

42 (Gandalf)
Traina (Asynchronous)
RedSoxFan (Traina)
CubedBee (Avi)
Voter (RedSoxFan)
Maine-iac (Rocky)
Cho Da (Kenshiro)
Gandalf (USCanuck)
Avi (Macroman)
Anonymouse (CubedBee)
4sigma (Cho Da)
Polly Nomial (4sigma)
J.T. (Ebenezer Kohl)

If this interpretation is correct then the slayer has incentive to slay players not selected in orange.
Not yet voted for by anyone, aka "slayer bait":

plain M&M
Ahow
USCanuck
Asynchronous
duodenum
All Clear
Zakarin
Rocky
Macroman
Werewolf

Already dead:
Hagbard Celine - Slain by EC - Innocent Student
cmu_stu - Lynched by students - Innocent Student
fallout - Slain by The Slayer - Innocent Student
Kenshiro - Slain by EC - Innocent Student
Ebenezer Kohl - Lynched by students - Innocent Student
Jables - Slain by the Slayer - EC

Votes cast by the peanut gallery:
Jables and urysohn.(the mole)
Jables and the mole(Jables)
the mole and urysohn.(Obi-Wan Kenobi)

[42]

Woohoo!! Way to go slayer! :wav:

I see my top two choices for the other EC member have already been selected - JT and PollyNomial. (I've really gotta get the internet at home. This business of having to come in to work on the weekend to stay on top of this game is ridiculous.) I guess I'll go with my #3 choice: Jables and Asynchronous.

[All Clear]

Jables and Zakarin

[42]

Let's look at Jables's voting pattern.

In round 1, he votes for Anonymouse, supposedly because she voted for RedSoxFan (or so he would have us believe). He then says he'll unvote her if she unvotes RedSoxFan, which she does, so he does. Then he votes for Gandalf and unvotes Gandalf to jump on the cmu_stu bandwagon.

If RedSoxFan is EC, this was a fairly risky thing to do, since it casts suspicion on RedSoxFan if we lynch/slay Jables and review his voting pattern. But what if it's actually Anonymouse that's EC? What better way to protect her identity than by voting for her in a situation where he knows that his vote would never amount to anything? (Most people were jumping on the Macroman bandwagon at the time, and he unvoted Anonymouse shortly afterward anyway.) The same could be said for Gandalf.

In round 2, with 12 votes cast for 8 different players, it's looking like it's going to be a long, tedious discussion with no bandwagon, so Anonymouse votes for Zakarin, and Jables immediately follows with a vote for Zakarin. Coincidence? I think I smell a rat. Or maybe it's a mouse.

Don't mind me - I'm just yammerin' while we wait for the execution. I still think it's JT.

[Gandalf]

I might feel more confident of this analysis if I thought Anonymouse was a she. Since I think Anonymouse is a he I have to wonder about your deductive abilities.

In this post from January 1, 2002, (http://actuary.ca/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=18984#18984) Anonymouse claims to be male. OTOH, the post was edited that same day. Very suspicious. Did he/she realize way back then that we would one time be searching for clues to EC?

[J.T.]

Jables and All Clear

[Cho Da]

I went back and reread most of the thread looking at Jables's posts as well as those I thought suspicious. That led me to my orange vote.

With a few minutes to spare this evening, I sat back to look in on the RO and found two PMs. I've got to say that this orange is d..d...del..del >Thunk<

I gueass I choked on the orange. Alas, I am but a poor innocent student. For you information here are the contents of the two PMs.

Just wanted to let you know that I bear you no ill will for voting for me. Somebody was bound to. And I doubt this will inspire a movement to lynch me. After all, everyone but myself has pretty much been ignoring your suspicions so far, so why should anyone start to take them seriously now? ;)

Looking forward to continuing to work with you to find the real EC, assuming it's not you. I think your advice (in general, not about me....) has been getting less attention than it deserves, and will continue to give it support when I feel it is being unduly neglected.

Your "confidant",

-- 4sig
The EC choo-choo-chooses you....

Good luck all. Sorry Kenshiro, no stapler for you!

[Gandalf]

Sorry, Cho Da. Too bad we couldn't have gotten the EC earlier. You can help us avenge your death. Keep up the good work making people talk.

[Klaymen]

Anonymouse is a he. I was away Friday & this weekend and the number of pages of text has my head spinning. As long as you are starting to suspect me, I thought I'd let you know I'm not checking the boards too often - I could never keep up with it all. Chess games are usually quicker and easier to follow.

[Klaymen]

I don't think that urysohn or E. Blackadder are on the EC because they were used as hypothetical examples when the orange text rules were added to page 1. :duh:

Now that I'm slightly current to what's going on..

unvote Zakarin

[4sigma]

Cho Da,

Sorry to hear about your demise. I appreciate your posting my PM to you, as I think it rather exonerates me. EC's optimum strategy is to avoid attention. Killing you and sending you a PM is the complete opposite of that strategy.

If I were EC, there are many others I could have killed and nobody would have ever breathed my name. Likewise, there are many others who, as EC, could kill you without drawing suspicion toward themselves.

-=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=-

I stand behind what I wrote in my PM. I have a great deal of respect for Cho Da and his advice, and in general it has been getting less attention than it deserved. I want to get it more widely considered.

He's repeatedly advocated spending more time and effort to get people to talk, and to avoid hasty lynchings. Our only two lynchings so far, however, have not followed this advice, and have not hit the mark.

With Cho Da's death posted at 2:32 p.m. Pacific time Sunday, this gives us until 7:46 p.m. Pacific time Wednesday to perform our next lynching. I would recommend that we have discussion and vote in red text until the end of the day Tuesday, in order to avoid invoking the quorum rule. At which time, the ghosts would select a lynchee using whatever method they are using, to be announced at the start of Wednesday, with the lynching to be formally completed on Wednesday.

Hagbard, if you could confirm that this schedule works for you, this would be helpful.

[Hagbard Celine]

That schedule is fine with me.

[plain M&M]

Jables and duodenum

And congrats to the slayer!

:party:

[Gandalf]

New strategy suggestion: Tell a ghost

Like 42, I reviewed Jables' posts, but I didn't limit it to his voting pattern. I couldn't detect clues as to who his EC partner is, but I found what I consider strong clues as to two people his partner isn't. Neither of those two is RedSoxFan, though I agree with 42 that the voting pattern is mildly suggestive that RedSoxFan is not EC.

Who are they, you ask? Sorry, I’ve realized I shouldn’t tell you, since I would also be telling the EC. As an example, suppose I’ve concluded JT and Polly Nomial are not EC. I would love to see a final 3 of JT, Polly Nomial, and EC, since I would know who to hit. Alas, if the EC knows we’ve concluded JT and Polly Nomial are not EC, the EC will hit them, and we’ll be left with Random Student, Random Student, EC; a harder task.

How should I try to protect JT and Polly if I’m convinced they’re not EC: tell the ghosts. And tell them why. If the ghosts are convinced, they’ll protect them. Since the ghosts know our slayer, they can pass the arguments along to the slayer for his consideration.

As we reach the final stages, the ghosts may have had suggestions to protect everyone, including well-intentioned suggestions to protect the real EC. The ghosts will have to weigh the evidence and make their decisions as they do now.

In the public threads, I can continue to try to defuse accusations against JT and Polly, but need not use my best defense: give that to the ghosts.

Final comment: ghosts should give no feedback to anyone. E.g., suppose the EC PMs the ghosts “I think JT is a student because (some argument). Need I elaborate?” and the ghosts (I’m not suggesting they would do this) were to reply “No, we’re already convinced JT is a student”, JT would soon be history.

[Traina]

I appreciate your posting my PM to you, as I think it rather exonerates me.

Ah, but does it really exonerate you? Seems a little too coincidental, IMO :)

[Mr. Penguin]

[i]Red Swingline giveaway rule clarification/revision: in the event that the Slayer kills both members of the EC, the Slayer automatically wins the Red Swingline.

[Gandalf]

Good move. If the slayer gets them both, he deserves it.

[Ebenezer Kohl]

Unofficial Update:
Votes:
42 (Gandalf)
Traina (Asynchronous)
RedSoxFan (Traina)
CubedBee (Avi)
Voter (RedSoxFan)
Maine-iac (Rocky)
Cho Da (Kenshiro)
Gandalf (USCanuck)
Avi (Macroman)
Anonymouse (CubedBee)
4sigma (Cho Da)
Polly Nomial (4sigma)
J.T. (Ebenezer Kohl)
duodenum (plain M&M)
All Clear (J.T.)
Zakarin (All Clear)

Hasn’t received a vote:
plain M&M
Ahow
USCanuck
Asynchronous
Rocky
Macroman
Werewolf

Hasn’t cast a vote (doesn’t have a student's chance at winning - yet):
42
Voter
Maine-iac
Ahow
duodenum
Zakarin
Anonymouse
Polly Nomial
Werewolf
Hagbard Celine - Slain by EC - Innocent Student
fallout - Slain by The Slayer - Innocent Student
cmu_stu - Lynched by students - Innocent Student

[Voter]

Assuming the above list is correct, I'll go with:

Jables and Ahow

No particular reason. Those I'm suspicious of have already been picked. Plus, I'm usually terrible at these games, so I'm probably better off picking randomly.

[Voter]

Final comment: ghosts should give no feedback to anyone. E.g., suppose the EC PMs the ghosts “I think JT is a student because (some argument). Need I elaborate?” and the ghosts (I’m not suggesting they would do this) were to reply “No, we’re already convinced JT is a student”, JT would soon be history.
And the ghosts would know who the EC is, and we'd take 'em out next round and win.

I'm dumb enough to say something like that by mistake, but you're not, Gandalf.

VOTE: GANDALF

[Avi]

Final comment: ghosts should give no feedback to anyone. E.g., suppose the EC PMs the ghosts “I think JT is a student because (some argument). Need I elaborate?” and the ghosts (I’m not suggesting they would do this) were to reply “No, we’re already convinced JT is a student”, JT would soon be history.
And the ghosts would know who the EC is, and we'd take 'em out next round and win.

I'm dumb enough to say something like that by mistake, but you're not, Gandalf.

VOTE: GANDALF :shake:

The EC wouldn't PM the ghost AS EC, Voter, they would be PMing the same way we would, as a student trying to "protect" the ones we know to be innocent. It would be a fishing expedition.

You are too quick to try and eliminate Gandalf.

Vote: Voter

[plain M&M]

Final comment: ghosts should give no feedback to anyone. E.g., suppose the EC PMs the ghosts “I think JT is a student because (some argument). Need I elaborate?” and the ghosts (I’m not suggesting they would do this) were to reply “No, we’re already convinced JT is a student”, JT would soon be history.
And the ghosts would know who the EC is, and we'd take 'em out next round and win.

I'm dumb enough to say something like that by mistake, but you're not, Gandalf.

VOTE: GANDALF

Let's think this through, Voter. In this example, how would the ghosts know that JT was a specific target or just a random shot?

I'm still thinking about the merits of Gandalf's suggestion, but I don't buy Voter's argument.

[Voter]

Double :shake:
The EC wouldn't PM the ghost AS EC, Voter, they would be PMing the same way we would, as a student trying to "protect" the ones we know to be innocent. It would be a fishing expedition.
No kidding - a fishing expedition we could have used as a trap, if Gandalf hadn't brought it up.

[Voter]

I don't buy Voter's argument.
Just to clarify, my argument isn't that this indicates Gandalf is EC. I just want to lynch him for blowing an opportunity. :evil:

[Traina]

Whoa, you guys, slow down. Remember ChoDa and 4sigma's suggestions...we indeed have lots of time before we need to vote.

This is the furthest along the students have ever been. We don't want to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory!

[plain M&M]

Just to clarify, my argument isn't that this indicates Gandalf is EC. I just want to lynch him for blowing an opportunity. :evil:

So, you're voting for Gandalf just because you don't agree with his suggestion? If that were the voting criteria, I would have voted for you a long time ago. :shake:

I agree with Traina - let's slow down! Don't vote! Suggestions are to be indicated in red. Let's see if the other EC slips.

[Voter]

Whoa, you guys, slow down. Remember ChoDa and 4sigma's suggestions...we indeed have lots of time before we need to vote.
It's fun to vote, and change your vote. Someone's gotta get the ball rolling. But, since some are paranoid about the quorum rule, I'll go change from bold to red. :)

[Voter]

So, you're voting for Gandalf just because you don't agree with his suggestion? If that were the voting criteria, I would have voted for you a long time ago.
No, I'm voting for Gandalf because his suggestion unwittingly warned the EC of a strategy we could have used against them. But I'll probably change my vote, so what difference does it really make?

[Kenshiro]

Is it now in the students best interest to off the slayer so (s)he can't snag the red swingline?

[Voter]

Is it now in the students best interest to off the slayer so (s)he can't snag the red swingline?
If the slayer wins the red swingline, more power to him/her - job well done.

It doesn't seem fair that the slayer gets a chance each round PLUS the standard pick two chance. But, if the slayer isn't allowed to pick two, that narrows the field for the EC, so I don't see any way around that.

[Gandalf]

Final comment: ghosts should give no feedback to anyone. E.g., suppose the EC PMs the ghosts “I think JT is a student because (some argument). Need I elaborate?” and the ghosts (I’m not suggesting they would do this) were to reply “No, we’re already convinced JT is a student”, JT would soon be history.
And the ghosts would know who the EC is, and we'd take 'em out next round and win.

I'm dumb enough to say something like that by mistake, but you're not, Gandalf.

VOTE: GANDALF
As we've seen earlier in this thread, I say some things as typos. But that one I stand by.

In general, it is a bad move for ghosts to discourage player involvement. Suppose I thought the evidence that JT was not EC was compelling, I make a forceful case to the ghosts, and care so much I want to argue more if they haven't bought in. And they (being tired of getting PM after PM from me), say they've bought in. And JT is killed.

Rather than wipe me out because I knew they would protect JT, isn't it also likely that the evidence that seemed so persuasive to me was also obvious to the EC, so they offed her? Especially if we try to keep our thoughts hidden, isn't their best move to kill the people they think are most obviously students?

My feeling is that's why they killed Cho Da. They can't stop him from talking or thinking. But some of us publicly pointed out the merits of his "make the EC talk" strategy. It was very, very unlikely that a majority of us would ever vote for him as EC, so they took him out to leave us with a larger pool of unknowns.

[Voter]

isn't their best move to kill the people they think are most obviously students?No, the EC is after the student who is the slayer, especially now that the slayer is proven to be effective.

EVERYONE but the EC is a student, Gandalf.

[Voter]

:oops: Misread, never mind! :duh:

[Ebenezer Kohl]

My feeling is that's why they killed Cho Da. They can't stop him from talking or thinking. But some of us publicly pointed out the merits of his "make the EC talk" strategy. It was very, very unlikely that a majority of us would ever vote for him as EC, so they took him out to leave us with a larger pool of unknowns.
But this is why I disagree with your strategy. You are going against Cho Da's strategy of making the EC talk. So what if the EC took him out. I'm more concerned with who the students and slayer eliminates.

[42]

I might feel more confident of this analysis if I thought Anonymouse was a she. Since I think Anonymouse is a he I have to wonder about your deductive abilities. :oops: :oops: :oops: No need to worry about my deductive abilities - it's my memory that needs work. (I'm going to play the "old age" card here.) I've been away from the RF for 11 months, and I thought I remembered that Anonymouse was female. Sorry, Anonymouse. :oops: :oops: :oops:

[42]

Unofficial Update:
Votes:
42 (Gandalf)
Traina (Asynchronous)
RedSoxFan (Traina)
CubedBee (Avi)
Voter (RedSoxFan)
Maine-iac (Rocky)
Cho Da (Kenshiro)
Gandalf (USCanuck)
Avi (Macroman)
Anonymouse (CubedBee)
4sigma (Cho Da)
Polly Nomial (4sigma)
J.T. (Ebenezer Kohl)
duodenum (plain M&M)
All Clear (J.T.)
Zakarin (All Clear)

Hasn’t received a vote:
plain M&M
Ahow
USCanuck
Asynchronous
Rocky
Macroman
Werewolf

Hasn’t cast a vote (doesn’t have a student's chance at winning - yet):
42
Voter
Maine-iac
Ahow
duodenum
Zakarin
Anonymouse
Polly Nomial
Werewolf
Hagbard Celine - Slain by EC - Innocent Student
fallout - Slain by The Slayer - Innocent Student
cmu_stu - Lynched by students - Innocent Student

Correction: I already cast my vote for Asynchronous.

[J.T.]

Final comment: ghosts should give no feedback to anyone. E.g., suppose the EC PMs the ghosts “I think JT is a student because (some argument). Need I elaborate?” and the ghosts (I’m not suggesting they would do this) were to reply “No, we’re already convinced JT is a student”, JT would soon be history.
And the ghosts would know who the EC is, and we'd take 'em out next round and win.

I'm dumb enough to say something like that by mistake, but you're not, Gandalf.

VOTE: GANDALF
As we've seen earlier in this thread, I say some things as typos. But that one I stand by.

In general, it is a bad move for ghosts to discourage player involvement. Suppose I thought the evidence that JT was not EC was compelling, I make a forceful case to the ghosts, and care so much I want to argue more if they haven't bought in. And they (being tired of getting PM after PM from me), say they've bought in. And JT is killed.

Rather than wipe me out because I knew they would protect JT, isn't it also likely that the evidence that seemed so persuasive to me was also obvious to the EC, so they offed her? Especially if we try to keep our thoughts hidden, isn't their best move to kill the people they think are most obviously students?

My feeling is that's why they killed Cho Da. They can't stop him from talking or thinking. But some of us publicly pointed out the merits of his "make the EC talk" strategy. It was very, very unlikely that a majority of us would ever vote for him as EC, so they took him out to leave us with a larger pool of unknowns.

Not that I understand everything that Gandalf has posted, nor Voter's retort, but Gandalf, thanks for using me in your example. I know that you love the few women playing this game... :love: :kiss:

[42]

Cho Da, Sorry to hear about your demise. I appreciate your posting my PM to you, as I think it rather exonerates me. EC's optimum strategy is to avoid attention. Killing you and sending you a PM is the complete opposite of that strategy.
... or the perfect bluff. Especially when you point it out to everybody. Add 4sigma to my list of suspects.

Question: Since we're not officially voting for anybody, can we "suggest" more than one person? For now, I'm going to suggest JT, but there are a couple of others I would like to suggest as well.

[Gandalf]

isn't their best move to kill the people they think are most obviously students?No, the EC is after the student who is the slayer, especially now that the slayer is proven to be effective.

EVERYONE but the EC is a student, Gandalf.
They are most after the slayer, but have little go on. So hitting possible slayers who are most obviously students is in their best interest.

"Obviously" isn't to them Of course they know exactly who is a student. But we don't. So if there are 15 total players left (I didn't count; I think it's more) including JT, and it is obvious to the students that JT is not EC, who should they hit? JT, since then we have about 1/14 of hitting them next, vs 1/13 if they eliminate someone we would consider hitting.

My current thinking (I could be wrong) is that the EC considers me obviously a student and obviously not the slayer. So they spare me now in hopes of getting the slayer. If they get the slayer, I think I am gone next. (This contradicts my earlier theory that they would never take me as the students would always consider me potentially EC.)

[ahow]

Jables and Plain M&M... Only because there are many options left to choose from...

[Gandalf]

Not that I understand everything that Gandalf has posted, nor Voter's retort, but Gandalf, thanks for using me in your example. I know that you love the few women playing this game... :love: :kiss:And a few women not playing this game.

[Voter]

They are most after the slayer, but have little go on.
...
My current thinking (I could be wrong) is that the EC considers me obviously a student and obviously not the slayer.
If they have little to go on, how is it so "obvious" that you're not the slayer?

[Gandalf]

They are most after the slayer, but have little go on.
...
My current thinking (I could be wrong) is that the EC considers me obviously a student and obviously not the slayer.
If they have little to go on, how is it so "obvious" that you're not the slayer?
I'm guessing, partly from the fact that they haven't taken me out; partly from the fact that I think they would never expect a slayer to be as active as I have been.

[Ebenezer Kohl]

Unofficial Update:
Votes:
42 (Gandalf)
Traina (Asynchronous)
RedSoxFan (Traina)
CubedBee (Avi)
Voter (RedSoxFan)
Maine-iac (Rocky)
Cho Da (Kenshiro)
Gandalf (USCanuck)
Avi (Macroman)
Anonymouse (CubedBee)
4sigma (Cho Da)
Polly Nomial (4sigma)
J.T. (Ebenezer Kohl)
duodenum (plain M&M)
All Clear (J.T.)
Zakarin (All Clear)
Asynchronous (42)
plain M&M (ahow)
ahow (Voter)

Hasn’t received a vote:
USCanuck
Rocky
Macroman
Werewolf

Hasn’t cast a vote (doesn’t have a student's chance at winning - yet):
Maine-iac
duodenum
Zakarin
Anonymouse
Polly Nomial
Werewolf
Hagbard Celine - Slain by EC - Innocent Student
fallout - Slain by The Slayer - Innocent Student
cmu_stu - Lynched by students - Innocent Student

[Voter]

They are most after the slayer, but have little go on.
...
My current thinking (I could be wrong) is that the EC considers me obviously a student and obviously not the slayer.
If they have little to go on, how is it so "obvious" that you're not the slayer?
I'm guessing, partly from the fact that they haven't taken me out; partly from the fact that I think they would never expect a slayer to be as active as I have been.
Do you think the students would ever expect an EC to be as active as you have been? :-?

[Gandalf]

Do you think the students would ever expect an EC to be as active as you have been? :-?
I was highly active in game 1, and was strongly suspected, barely escaping (I was EC then). 42 was quite active in game 2 and was lynched (he was not EC, but salting slugs is never a bad move).

I guess: a significant group of students will think I'm EC; a majority of students will not think I'm EC; the EC will conclude a majority will never conclude I'm EC; so the EC will take me out.

The EC strategy, even if they buy into all that, might not be to take me out. Ghosts will consider me a potential target if I get a significant number of red votes, even less than a majority. We think there's some randomness to the ghosts' decisions except for protecting the slayer, so maybe EC should leave me in the pool. Or maybe they'll decide that if they don't take me out, the students will then conclude I must be EC.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

So which cup is the iocane powder in?

[Gandalf]

Since some of you will have missed it due to the subsequent exchanges, my newest strategy idea is Tell your strongest reasons for who's innocent only to the ghosts (preferably Hagbard).

Proposal with reasons (http://actuary.ca/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=491768&highlight=#491768)

[urysohn]

Since some of you will have missed it due to the subsequent exchanges, my newest strategy idea is Tell your strongest reasons for who's innocent only to the ghosts (preferably Hagbard).

Or to paraphrase:
Let's not actually talk about who might or might not be EC in public.

Color me confused -- how does this force the EC into tipping their hands?

[Avi]

For quorum purposes:

Unvote: Voter
Vote: Voter

However, I still think Voter is too quick on the draw here. However, I'll try and analyze him a bit more thoroughly.

[Avi]

Is it because Gandalf knows too much, or is it because Voter is EC and wants to eliminate a vocal student?
If I were EC and wanted to eliminate Gandalf - I would have eliminated Gandalf! Since Hagbard was eliminated, even though I'm suspicious of Gandalf, I'm obviously not EC.

You are right, though - the EC would want to eliminate the student who's shown the most strategic thought. Since that 'student' wasn't eliminated.........Hmmm, not if the elimination of that student would point fingers of blame directly at the one that had been clamoring for his removal from Page 2.

Hmmmmmm.

[Gandalf]

My feeling is that's why they killed Cho Da. They can't stop him from talking or thinking. But some of us publicly pointed out the merits of his "make the EC talk" strategy. It was very, very unlikely that a majority of us would ever vote for him as EC, so they took him out to leave us with a larger pool of unknowns.
But this is why I disagree with your strategy. You are going against Cho Da's strategy of making the EC talk. So what if the EC took him out. I'm more concerned with who the students and slayer eliminates.
Cho Da's strategy was best when there were two EC, when after getting one we could go back and see who that one protected, and who he accused. The more dialog, the more chance that an EC would perceive the need to protect his partner.
With only one EC, the EC has little need for a protection strategy. We gain more by hiding any strong conclusions as to who is innocent, hoping the EC leaves those people in the pool.
I still think we can talk publicly about reasons we think some people are EC.

[Avi]

New thought: early on, with the odds of EC being randomly selected so low, the EC is probably just gonna lay low, and save misdirection strategies for later. So, everyone who's posted an opinion so far is in the clear. Either that, or it's Gandalf. Whatcha think?Especially one such as yourself who has been vocal from the get-go, right?

[Avi]

Yes, I've considered that and think it's a good point. Again, I'm switching to the 'EC would lay low at this point' theory. Therefore the only people who definitely aren't EC are:

Gandalf
Voter
Polly
Ebenezer
plain m&m
ahow
JT

A few others made posts that were mostly rules-related. I don't think we can conclude much from those.

Definitely aren't EC? The only things definite in life are death, taxes, and rediculous curves on g-dforsaken questions on impossibly complex papers on upper-level Actuarial exams.

Nothing else is definite - unless you have an ulterior motive for making people think that one or more of the names on that list is scot-free - even Gandalf.

Hmmmmmm

[Avi]

Note to slayer: the case against Polly Nomial seems pretty good. :)And the case against Voter is getting stronger everytime he posts.Let's see...I'm behaving just like I always do. Everyone else has figured that out. :roll:

CHO DA IS CLU_L_SS

Maybe if you buy a vowel you can figure that one out! :lol:

As already pointed out, though, Polly is NOT behaving as she normallly does. That IS suspicious.Why does The Purloined Letter come to mind?

Especially now that Cho Da has been proven innocent.

[Voter]

Yeah Avi, when I confront someone and they get murdered, that means I'm EC...and when I confront someone and they don't get murdered, that means I'm EC. Damn, you're on to me! :lol:

[4sigma]

Since some of you will have missed it due to the subsequent exchanges, my newest strategy idea is Tell your strongest reasons for who's innocent only to the ghosts (preferably Hagbard).


The point is, if we are absolutely convinced that someone is innocent, we don't want to publicize that. Because that draws a bulls-eye on the person for EC to kill.

EC wants to avoid being lynched/slain. The best way to do that is for there to be several alternative lynchees/slayees. If we're convinced that someone is innocent and reject the idea of lynching them, that's bad for EC to still have them alive. Thus I agree with Gandalf.

Gandalf, btw, I agree with your secondary point which has been getting relatively lesser notice. Hagbard should share any good arguments for innocence with the slayer. This will help the slayer judge who to target.

Or to paraphrase:
Let's not actually talk about who might or might not be EC in public.

Color me confused -- how does this force the EC into tipping their hands?
Your paraphrase has twisted Gandalf's idea. We are still free to talk about things that suggest someone IS EC. The point is to avoid publicly talking about good reasons someone isn't EC.

But thanks for trying to increase confusion. Stinkin' EC collaborator!

[Voter]

Just a thought.

Diplomacy experts will have an advantage in this game due to their experience in misdirection and duplicity. If they are non-EC members, it behooves us to protect them, but if they are EC members, it would even the playing field for us students to have as unsophisticated EC members as possible.

So it may be a tenable theory to just eliminate all experts at this game first to even out the field.

Which would make Gandalf, Cho Da, and 42 people I would consider early on......

Suggestions?
Hmmm... :D

[Voter]

No, no, no. Get a reliable ghost first. I have PMed Hagbard suggesting he check on developments in this thread. If he says he'll be the ghost, then executing cmu_stu is fine. He probably isn't, but anyone we pick probably isn't.Mae govannen, Mithrandir.

At the risk of engaging your ire, your defence of cmu_stu may be interpreted as one EC member sticking up for the other. The fact that you are volunteering now after many votes have been cast for both macroman and cmu_stu means that it's rather unlikely that you will be chosen. I'm not making any claims, but cynycism and paranoia seem to be a prerequisite for surviving a few rounds in this game, no?

Hmmm.....

[Klaymen]

I love how people say,
"And trust me, I am definitely not EC". As if there is any trust in this game. :shake:

[Avi]

Yeah Avi, when I confront someone and they get murdered, that means I'm EC...and when I confront someone and they don't get murdered, that means I'm EC. d*mn, you're on to me! :lol:I never claimed you are EC, yet, I was just analyzing your posting pattern, and drawing some conclusions. That's all :)

Isn't that the point of this game? :dsmile:

Feel free to draw any conclusions about me that you want :)

[Kenshiro]

And why does Gandalf want us to believe this will be the ECs strategy when it clearly hasn't been up to this point?

[Voter]

I never claimed you are EC, yet, I was just analyzing your posting pattern, and drawing some conclusions. That's all
Hehe. OK. :)

[Klaymen]

I say we vote for people obsessed with the theory of this game. It just puts me to sleep and clutters everything up. Watch them cast a suspicious eye on me for having said that.

[Voter]

I say we vote for people obsessed with the theory of this game. I already did! :)

[J.T.]

Voter, is there anyone you haven't accused yet? You are so busy throwing suspicion on everyone else that it makes me suspect of you!

[11pecans]

Gandalf is so EC!!!! You innocent students should lynch him in a heart beat, and finish the game.

[Voter]

Voter, is there anyone you haven't accused yet?Not many! :D
You are so busy throwing suspicion on everyone else that it makes me suspect of you!Which is pretty easy to predict. That means either I'm EC and stupid, or I'm EC and using reverse psychology by drawing so much attention to myself, or I'm more interested in HAVING FUN than in winning the stapler. :crazy:

[Voter]

BTW, is that a Tigger costume?

[J.T.]

BTW, is that a Tigger costume?

Yes, it is, I had it for the Halloween "Change your avatar into a costume" day, and I haven't updated it. My son turned 2 on Friday, so I need to put up a new pic. :capn:

[Voter]

One year mine went as Pooh, Piglet, and a honey pot.

[J.T.]

One year mine went as Pooh, Piglet, and a honey pot.
Too cute!

[42]

OK, before this degenerates into a discussion of potty training, may I point out that JT just used the oldest trick in the book - changing her avatar to something so cute that we would feel guilty about lynching her. Proof that JT is devious enough to be the EC!

We now return you to your regularly scheduled drivel. :wink:

[42]

I say we vote for people obsessed with the theory of this game. It just puts me to sleep and clutters everything up. Watch them cast a suspicious eye on me for having said that.Sounds like Anonymouse has something to hide! :wink: Actually, I question the whole theory of the EC trying to get rid of anybody who's getting close to exposing them. That doesn't make any sense since we never really get rid of the executed students - they're still free to give all of their comments as ghosts. About all we lose is their vote. That and 3 bucks will get you a cup of Starbucks.

[J.T.]

OK, before this degenerates into a discussion of potty training, may I point out that JT just used the oldest trick in the book - changing her avatar to something so cute that we would feel guilty about lynching her. Proof that JT is devious enough to be the EC!

We now return you to your regularly scheduled drivel. :wink:

Whatever! BTW, Voter started that, not me! :shake:

Actually, I just thinking that I would like to Vote: Jables. Oh, I can't do that, can I? He's already dead. I'm most suspicious of Polly.

Please don't be mad Gandalf!