KP, what has Bush done to lower gas prices?

[2pac Shakur]

Invaded Iraq?

[Tim><]

When I make an argument claiming that he has, your parody will be apt. Don't hold your breath.

[2pac Shakur]

When I make an argument claiming that he has, your parody will be apt. Don't hold your breath.

Does my quote claim he caused these?

He is unable to do a thing to remedy the situation.
So, let's try another plan, like Kerry's. Couldn't be any worse.

[Tim><]

If his plan is not responsible for any of these 'things,' there is no reason to switch plans.

[2pac Shakur]

If his plan is not responsible for any of these 'things,' there is no reason to switch plans.

USA is powerless to do anything about the price of gas?

[Tim><]

Are you suggesting we invade a member of OPEC?

[2pac Shakur]

Are you suggesting we invade a member of OPEC?

I'm more of a demand side guy.

[2pac Shakur]

Are you suggesting we invade a member of OPEC?

And invading Iraq raised prices, not lowered them.
As I predicted would happen.
(well, I predicted prices wouldn't go down anyway)

[Tim><]

Are you suggesting we invade a member of OPEC?

I'm more of a demand side guy.

So if we reduce demand for oil, prices will go down. I see. So do we militarily force civilians to use alternative sources of energy? Do we heavily tax gas, which would increase the burden of gasoline prices on the consumer, but reduce the cost of gasoline to the imaginary US government?

Fascinating. Please elaborate.

[2pac Shakur]

Are you suggesting we invade a member of OPEC?

I'm more of a demand side guy.

So if we reduce demand for oil, prices will go down. I see. So do we militarily force civilians to use alternative sources of energy? Do we heavily tax gas, which would increase the burden of gasoline prices on the consumer, but reduce the cost of gasoline to the imaginary US government?

Fascinating. Please elaborate.

Sure weren't able to do anything in the '70s. That's for sure.

If we'd dumped half the money it took to invade Iraq into fuel efficiency programs, we'd be able to cut our dependency.
How about subsidizing purchases of hybrids?
Work on USA's infrastructure (instead of Iraq's) - more public transportation, additional freeway lanes. In CA, there are carpool lanes. More of these, or make additional lanes open only to cars that get at least a certain minimum MPG.
R&D on alternative fuel sources.

Of course you think invading Iraq has helped. :roll:

[O. Hannah]

Yeah, I can't WAIT until they make a car that gets 30 or DARE I DREAM 40 mpg. In the mean time we'll just all have to drive our SUV's and blame Bush for the high price of gasoline. :duh:

Um, where was all the R&D from the 8 years of clinton? Shouldn't it have taken effect by now? Oh that's right...he didn't do $hit about it.

[2pac Shakur]

Yeah, I can't WAIT until they make a car that gets 30 or DARE I DREAM 40 mpg. In the mean time we'll just all have to drive our SUV's and blame Bush for the high price of gasoline. :duh:

Um, where was all the R&D from the 8 years of clinton? Shouldn't it have taken effect by now? Oh that's right...he didn't do $hit about it.

A. Record gas prices under Bush NOT Clinton.
B. Bush called himself the "energy expert", not Clinton.
C. Clinton's not running for President.

Thanks for playing.

[Tim><]

Actually, you were the one making the assertion that we invaded Iraq for oil.

[O. Hannah]

Yeah, I can't WAIT until they make a car that gets 30 or DARE I DREAM 40 mpg. In the mean time we'll just all have to drive our SUV's and blame Bush for the high price of gasoline. :duh:

Um, where was all the R&D from the 8 years of clinton? Shouldn't it have taken effect by now? Oh that's right...he didn't do $hit about it.

A. Record gas prices under Bush NOT Clinton.
B. Bush called himself the "energy expert", not Clinton.
C. Clinton's not running for President.

Thanks for playing.

You dodged my first point. The average vehicle MPG in the U.S. is something like 18MPG. You can EASILY find 4-door sedans that get around 30mpg and other cars that get >40. SO, hmmmm.....we have two choices:
a) accept that the US people largely screw themselves via over- consumption.
b) demand that the government give us freedoms and then blame them for the results....and cry about Carl Rove if they actually curtail any freedoms.

Seems to me that you aren't real big on taking personal responsibility for your actions....at least not when you can blame people for political purposes.

[O. Hannah]

Ok, so there are lots of fuel efficient vehicles out there in the marketplace BUT Americans aren't buying them. (1/3 of all vehicles sold in 2003 were SUV's)

Tupac claims the solution needs to be addressed from the demand side and that Bush hasn't developed things to help.

Now, I actually agree that Bush hasn't been good about those things...but people aren't driving the more fuel efficient cars that are already available. POINT IN FACT they actually pay some of the highest profit margins in the industry to buy SUV's.

So, since you still feel this is Bush's fault....you must be suggesting something like the government should pass laws telling us what vehicles we should drive or maybe allocate gas?

[2pac Shakur]

Ok, so there are lots of fuel efficient vehicles out there in the marketplace BUT Americans aren't buying them. (1/3 of all vehicles sold in 2003 were SUV's)

Tupac claims the solution needs to be addressed from the demand side and that Bush hasn't developed things to help.

Now, I actually agree that Bush hasn't been good about those things...but people aren't driving the more fuel efficient cars that are already available. POINT IN FACT they actually pay some of the highest profit margins in the industry to buy SUV's.

So, since you still feel this is Bush's fault....you must be suggesting something like the government should pass laws telling us what vehicles we should drive or maybe allocate gas?

Like I said, just using the money spent on the war in Iraq, on programs at home would have went a LONG way. Bush chose a path that hasn't helped anything. As a matter of fact, things seem to be getting worse. Look at the NE blackout. The lack of refineries at home. We apparently have major infrastructure problems at home. But Bush seems to feel Iraq's infrastructure needs the money more. I disagree. Laugh at Kerry's plans if you want, but he his plan has one thing going for it: it's not Bush's plan. Bush's plan is a PROVEN failure.

[Tim><]

Ok, so there are lots of fuel efficient vehicles out there in the marketplace BUT Americans aren't buying them. (1/3 of all vehicles sold in 2003 were SUV's)

Tupac claims the solution needs to be addressed from the demand side and that Bush hasn't developed things to help.

Now, I actually agree that Bush hasn't been good about those things...but people aren't driving the more fuel efficient cars that are already available. POINT IN FACT they actually pay some of the highest profit margins in the industry to buy SUV's.

So, since you still feel this is Bush's fault....you must be suggesting something like the government should pass laws telling us what vehicles we should drive or maybe allocate gas?

Like I said, just using the money spent on the war in Iraq, on programs at home would have went a LONG way. Bush chose a path that hasn't helped anything. As a matter of fact, things seem to be getting worse. Look at the NE blackout. The lack of refineries at home. We apparently have major infrastructure problems at home. But Bush seems to feel Iraq's infrastructure needs the money more. I disagree. Laugh at Kerry's plans if you want, but he his plan has one thing going for it: it's not Bush's plan. Bush's plan is a PROVEN failure.

Since you have yet to support Bush's fault in this area, your last statement will only be given a credibility of .0025. While this is significantly higher than you are accustomed to, it is not yet statistically significant.

[The Diabolical Biz Markie]

Are you suggesting we invade a member of OPEC?

And invading Iraq raised prices, not lowered them.
As I predicted would happen.


I reeeeeeeally hate to dignify anything you say with a serious response, but...

Iraq was pumping oil before the war AND at special UN prices. That was the whole food for oil thing...they had to sell their oil at below market prices. This had the absolutely predictable result of enabling Saddam et al to get monster kickbacks from the French &amp; Russians for making agreement to sell THEM the oil at below market prices, which they promptly sold to the market at market prices.

but, there is no reason to think that invading Iraq would decrease the price of oil because that oil was already hitting the market.


And, wrt raising oil price, you are falling into the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. Just because oil prices went up after the invasion of Iraq doesn't mean that invading Iraq caused prices to go up. The fact is that even with Iraqi oil, the world demand was going up faster than the available daily production. That causes prices to go up.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

I reeeeeeeally hate to dignify anything you say with a serious response, but...

I don't believe you. Until I see some serious non-posting, I'll keep not believing.
It's not Bush's job to keep gas prices down. Free market. WH's blaming Congreff isn't a smart reply, either.

[Werewolf]

First of all, I thought those opposed to Bush said that we were invading Iraq to secure cheap oil.

Second of all, I don't see "securing cheap oil" in the Constitution. I even double-checked the part that delineates the powers of the executive branch. Maybe I missed it?

[Skippy]

Higher gas prices = lower consumption.

It's all part of Bush's hidden environmental agenda.

[Moe Szyslak]

Ok, so there are lots of fuel efficient vehicles out there in the marketplace BUT Americans aren't buying them. (1/3 of all vehicles sold in 2003 were SUV's)

Tupac claims the solution needs to be addressed from the demand side and that Bush hasn't developed things to help.

Now, I actually agree that Bush hasn't been good about those things...but people aren't driving the more fuel efficient cars that are already available. POINT IN FACT they actually pay some of the highest profit margins in the industry to buy SUV's.

So, since you still feel this is Bush's fault....you must be suggesting something like the government should pass laws telling us what vehicles we should drive or maybe allocate gas?

While it is not Bush's fault, I think there is alot he could do to improve the situation. He has mentioned providing money to companies to increase alternative sources in his 03 SOTU, but I have not heard how much of that actually went in place.

I don't see things changing until we have another fuel crunch like in the 70's, or the government implements some laws to force companies to produce fewer gas guzzlers. With the strategic petroleum reserve, #1 likely wont happen. Companies will provide consumers whatever they want, so they won't consider costly alternatives, unless the demand goes up for those. I think people are willing to pay a hundred dollars to fill up their SUV's weekly, so until gas hits $3 a gallon, I don't think they will want to trade them in.

It would be nice to see all non-commerical vehicles built as hybrids in the near future. Demand could easily drop by a third within ten years after that. The problem is as demand drops, gas gets cheaper, and more people want the SUVs back. It needs to be an across the board change.