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Anonymous
03-01-2002, 01:03 PM
Location: Ontario, Canada
Area of Practice: pension consulting
Employer: medium sized consulting practice
COL: medium
Exam level: new fellow
Experience: 7 years
Work week: 40 hours but ultimately based on a billable hour target

Compensation
Salary: $80,000 CDN
Bonus: 10%

Nature Boy
03-01-2002, 01:08 PM
if you don't mind the cold, the pension consulting part and the fact that it's only $50,000 in real dollars...

you might bump into ammie too. i say it's worth it.

whoooooooooo


On 2002-03-01 13:03, II wrote:
Location: Ontario, Canada
Area of Practice: pension consulting
Employer: medium sized consulting practice
COL: medium
Exam level: new fellow
Experience: 7 years
Work week: 40 hours but ultimately based on a billable hour target

Compensation
Salary: $80,000 CDN
Bonus: 10%

Jack
03-01-2002, 01:13 PM
80k CDN is approximately 50-60k in real money. We pay students w/ 2 exams 50k. As a fellow you should be making at least 95k real money or 135-158k CDN.

Dirk Diggler
03-01-2002, 01:33 PM
You can't compare salaries between US and Canada like that. From what I've seen, Canadians who go to the US make almost the same salary except that it is in US dollars.

I'd say that 80,000 sounds about right for a new fellow with 4-5 years of experience. However, I would expect a bit more considering your experience. I'd say around 90,000.

For what my comments are worth, I hope this helps.

DW Simpson
03-01-2002, 01:50 PM
For 7-9 years of pension experience for an FSA, the middle 80% of actuaries' compensation range (dropping the top 10% and bottom 10%) in our salary survey (http://www.dwsimpson.com/salary.html) is US$95-136K. Since the criteria here is 7 years, I'd drop the middle 80% range down to perhaps US$85-115K (but that's a back of the envelope guesstimate -- I haven't gone back to review the source data).

Your total compensation example of Canadian$88K would then be compared to US$85-115K.

Quote: You can't compare salaries between US and Canada like that. From what I've seen, Canadians who go to the US make almost the same salary except that it is in US dollars.

I agree. So if one were to compare the 88 to the 85-115 range, I'd say that while the 88 is in a reasonable range, it's still a bit low.

Quote: However, I would expect a bit more considering your experience. I'd say around 90,000.

The midpoint of my guesstimated range is 100K. However, I don't know what the median in that cell would be. If it's less than the mean, perhaps 95K would be the benchmark to compare to 88K. Hope that helps.

UWO
03-01-2002, 02:00 PM
On 2002-03-01 13:33, Dirk Diggler wrote:
You can't compare salaries between US and Canada like that. From what I've seen, Canadians who go to the US make almost the same salary except that it is in US dollars.

I'd say that 80,000 sounds about right for a new fellow with 4-5 years of experience. However, I would expect a bit more considering your experience. I'd say around 90,000.

For what my comments are worth, I hope this helps.



What he said ... making 100K in the States won't translate to 160K in Canada, you'll get approx. the same as a raw number.

80K seems low to me for FSA with 7 years

Jack
03-01-2002, 02:28 PM
You should be able to compare salaries adjusting for exchange rates. There would be arbitrage opportunities if this where not the case. If a car costs 20k in the states and 20k CDN in Canada an arbitrage opportunity would exist and the price in both contries would levelize.

Clearly there is not a free flow of labor, the Canadian actuary is worse off in absolute dollar terms.

You may argue thate housing costs and service related goods are cheaper in Canada. I don't know if this is true.

DW Simpson
03-01-2002, 02:36 PM
Quote: the Canadian actuary is worse off in absolute dollar terms

Proportionally, there are more Canadians vying for Canadian actuarial jobs than there are Americans competing for US actuarial jobs. The supply/demand equation is completely different that cannot be met even by the number of Canadian actuaries coming to the US.

It has little to do with relative costs of living in the 2 countries.

(Edited typo)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: D.W. Simpson Webmaster on 2002-03-01 14:37 ]</font>

aNoNo
03-01-2002, 03:14 PM
On 2002-03-01 14:36, D.W. Simpson Webmaster wrote:
Quote: the Canadian actuary is worse off in absolute dollar terms

Proportionally, there are more Canadians vying for Canadian actuarial jobs than there are Americans competing for US actuarial jobs. The supply/demand equation is completely different that cannot be met even by the number of Canadian actuaries coming to the US.

It has little to do with relative costs of living in the 2 countries.

(Edited typo)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: D.W. Simpson Webmaster on 2002-03-01 14:37 ]</font>


Any thoughts as to why there is a relatively larger supply of actuaries in Canada compared to U.S.A.?

It always seemed like there were a lot of university actuarial programs in Canada relative to the U.S.A. (adjusted for size of population and economy, etc.).

No wonder the professors were pushing the Big Tent a few years ago.

DW Simpson
03-01-2002, 03:22 PM
Quote: It always seemed like there were a lot of university actuarial programs in Canada relative to the U.S.A. (adjusted for size of population and economy, etc.).

Exactly.

Mr. Grim
03-01-2002, 03:22 PM
It is their back up plan if ice hockey or figure skating does not work. Every Canadians dream job:

1) NHL

2) Whining your way to gold

3) Becoming a comedian in America

4) actuary

Dirk Diggler
03-01-2002, 03:27 PM
Jack:

you said something about a black market for cars... Well, actually there is one. Read this article if you're interested:

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/HTMLTemplate/search?tf=tgam/search/tgam/SearchResults.html&cf=tgam/search/tgam/SearchResults.cfg&current_row=1&start_row=1&num_rows=10

Sorry about the long address... I have no clue how to include a link in my post.

Dirk Diggler
03-01-2002, 03:29 PM
OK, I realized that my link doesn't work. But go on globeandmail.com and do a search for black market and you'll get an interesting article about car black market between US and Canada.

Wile E. Coyote
03-01-2002, 04:56 PM
II:

Outside of this silly US / Canada debate where people oversimplify life to dollars and cents, I think you're getting a bit of the short end of the stick.

For comparison, a recent offer I've heard is 65k with 5 exams and two years in a medium COL city(ie outside of Toronto). Add 22k more for FSA (which I think pretty typical increase) and you're already above your offer without including experience. If you have consulting experience you should expect a lot more, if you have life experience you should expect a bit more but more in the way of increases as you (successfully) adapt to the role of consultant.

Good luck (especially on keeping a 40 hr week!)

Wile E. Coyote
03-01-2002, 04:57 PM
On 2002-03-01 16:56, Len Bias wrote:
II:

Back to your question, and away from this silly US / Canada debate where people oversimplify life to dollars and cents, I think you're getting a bit of the short end of the stick.

For comparison, a recent offer I've heard is 65k with 5 exams and two years in a medium COL city(ie outside of Toronto). Add 22k more for FSA (which I think pretty typical increase) and you're already above your offer without including experience. If you have consulting experience you should expect a lot more, if you have life experience you should expect a bit more but more in the way of increases as you (successfully) adapt to the role of consultant.

Good luck (especially on keeping a 40 hr week!)

UWO
03-01-2002, 05:08 PM
On 2002-03-01 15:22, Grim wrote:
It is their back up plan if ice hockey or figure skating does not work. Every Canadians dream job:

1) NHL

2) Whining your way to gold

3) Becoming a comedian in America

4) actuary



Someone's gotta do your work when you can't find someone capable south of the border. :smile:

P.S. We don't call it ice hockey, the ice is implied. But good for clarity, considering the audience.

Mr. Grim
03-01-2002, 05:24 PM
Ever heard of field hockey, yeah I know only chicks play, also we now have roller hockey- a far superior sport in my opinion.

UWO
03-01-2002, 05:31 PM
sure, but i've also heard of arena football and i didn't think that forced anyone to call the other stuff grass/turf football

i'm sure roller hockey will be in the olympics, next time they're being held in california

Ammie
03-01-2002, 06:30 PM
II, I think you are underpaid if you are working in pension consulting in TO. I would think $90,000 plus bonus and upwards would be reasonable. If you are working a set 35 hour work week or have some other killer benefits, then the $80,000 is not unreasonable. If you want I can ask some of my friends (in pension consulting in Toronto).

Ammie
03-01-2002, 06:33 PM
Proportionally, there are more Canadians vying for Canadian actuarial jobs than there are Americans competing for US actuarial jobs. The supply/demand equation is completely different that cannot be met even by the number of Canadian actuaries coming to the US.

I just wanted to comment on this. Canadians don't go to the US because there are no jobs here. Many of them go to the US so they can save US$, and plan on coming back to Canada with lots of savings. The Canadian job market is not saturated (right now anyway).

Double High C
03-01-2002, 06:36 PM
Regarding the premise that salaries should reflect the exchange rate, is it even true that there is purchasing power parity between Canada and the U.S.? (I'm ignoring the issue of supply vs. demand w.r.t. actuaries.)

DW Simpson
03-01-2002, 07:02 PM
Quote: Canadians don't go to the US because there are no jobs here. The Canadian job market is not saturated (right now anyway).

If any of that was inferred from my post, I apologize. We are always working on dozens of Canadian positions (http://www.dwsimpson.com/canada.html), so there's certainly a lot of demand there.

Incredible Hulctuary
03-02-2002, 06:34 AM
On 2002-03-01 17:24, Grim wrote:
Ever heard of field hockey, yeah I know only chicks play, also we now have roller hockey- a far superior sport in my opinion.


Maybe only chicks play it in America, but in other countries field hockey for men is probably more common than for women. Especially where ice hockey doesn't exist. At the international level it does get to be quite brutal.