poker: bad break / bad play

[Expunge]

POKERSTARS GAME #375999058: TOURNAMENT #1360771, HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL VII (100/200) - 2004/04/07 - 22:46:18 (ET)
Table '1360771 1' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 2: rbdjr1 (4160 in chips)
Seat 3: aidanshealy (4645 in chips)
Seat 4: bamr1 (2610 in chips)
Seat 9: SP0NGE (2085 in chips)
rbdjr1: posts the ante 25
aidanshealy: posts the ante 25
bamr1: posts the ante 25
SP0NGE: posts the ante 25
SP0NGE: posts small blind 100
rbdjr1: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SP0NGE [Jc Ah]
aidanshealy said, "Not even going to mess with it."
aidanshealy: folds
bamr1: calls 200
SP0NGE: raises 400 to 600
rbdjr1: folds
bamr1: calls 400
*** FLOP *** [8h Ad Kh]
SP0NGE: bets 1460 and is all-in
bamr1: calls 1460
SP0NGE said, "lol"
*** TURN *** [8h Ad Kh] [5h]
*** RIVER *** [8h Ad Kh 5h] [Td]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
SP0NGE: shows [Jc Ah] (a pair of Aces)
bamr1: shows [8s As] (two pair, Aces and Eights)
bamr1 collected 4420 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4420 | Rake 0
Board [8h Ad Kh 5h Td]
Seat 2: rbdjr1 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: aidanshealy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: bamr1 (button) showed [8s As] and won (4420) with two pair, Aces and Eights
Seat 9: SP0NGE (small blind) showed [Jc Ah] and lost with a pair of Aces

[Happy Extinction]

If you checked and the other player went all in, would you have called?

[Drzy]

I rarely (well, pretty much never) go all-in when I'm first to act after the flop. Who knows what the other players might have.

[FSAme]

If you checked and the other player went all in, would you have called?

Good question.


I'd say it's a bit of both - but more of an unlucky break. Preflop is exactly what I would do in your position. Not sure what the other guy was thinking though - I would not have just called (twice!) preflop with A8, so there's the bad break. I bet if it had been A8o, he's gone.

The all in post flop is a bit risky. I probably would have done the same, although any preflop calls at this point in the game really scare me (ie. trap). Not that he was doing that this time.

[MNBridge]

I typically raise to 800 when it's down to 4 players.

But other than that: Bad Break.

(P.S. If there wasn't an 8 on the flop do you think the other player folds?)

[FSAme]

I typically raise to 800 when it's down to 4 players.


Even with a caller in front of you?

[MNBridge]

I didn't see that but:

If he limped yes. I want him to come over the top if he has a good hand (so I can fold) or fold without one.

AJ is tricky especially with a limper. You can't be happy with any flop so why even bother calling. If you feel like you need 2 pair on the flop or you will have to fold you may as well play 72.

Now back to the actual hand.
By this time I have a decent read on the player so my play will vary based on that. If he limps alot and is then SUPER agressive I will fold this hand.
If he limps a lot then folds I might call and bet the pot if he checks.

This is a case where I think the other players previous play is to important to give an answer without more data.

I think 3 options are all correct depending on his style.
Raise to 800
Call
Fold

(I don't like a raise to 600 cause he is risking 400 to win 1100 an easy call even with a substadard hand (like A8 )).
He may now put you on an ace and be willing to fold with an Ace (no eight) flop or he may put the pressure on with no Ace flop. (He has more chips and a flop of Kxx might look good to bluff at cause you sort of showed an ace or medium pair but surely not AK or KT)

Goes Back to NO WIMPY PLAYS!!

[Expunge]

OK I can see the raise to 800 instead of 600. I agree thats the better play. Once again he calls and the flop is the same, now what? you have 1265 remaining and a pot of 1900

[MNBridge]

OK I can see the raise to 800 instead of 600. I agree thats the better play. Once again he calls and the flop is the same, now what? you have 1265 remaining and a pot of 1900

I'm all in. I'm the one who voted bad break. (I'm not so sure he calls 800 though -- I wouldn't with A8 )

[O. Hannah]

Whats funny is that you had 14 outs after the turn to win this.

Bad break with that flop...but that will happen from time to time.

[USCanuck]

hmmm.....bamr1.......bammer ... bama..... Bama Gambler.......

[Voter]

When it's down to 5 or 4 I want to be the first person in. If someone else has already called, I need a bigger hand than AJ to enter.

[Hummer]

OK I can see the raise to 800 instead of 600. I agree thats the better play. Once again he calls and the flop is the same, now what? you have 1265 remaining and a pot of 1900

I'm all in. I'm the one who voted bad break. (I'm not so sure he calls 800 though -- I wouldn't with A8 )

I'd call an all-in with A8 any day. An all-in bet when first to act to me shows weakness. Either the player is in a stop n' go situation, or only hit a piece of the board with a decent kicker. A smaller bet or a check is much more likely if he hit top two or even trips.