Poker: multiple questions for one hand

[FSAme]

Here’s the situation:

SnG ($100 buy in), 8 of 9 players remaining, blinds 25/50.

You’re at 1700 (a little above average) in chips and in the small blind with Qh9h. 3 callers.

Question 1: Do you call the 25 with this hand?



I call the 25, bb checks.

Flop Qs Th 3h. Top pair with non-nut flush draw. First to act.

Question 2: what do you do here?




I made a post size bet – 250. Big blind calls – leaving him 800 in chips, everyone else folds.

Turn 8h. caught the flush.

Question 3: what do you do here?



I made the same bet – 250. My Thinking: feeler bet, if he has the nut flush he’ll call or raise it some. If he calls, I check the river, If he raises, I may fold.

He goes all in. My thinking now: Why would he go all in with the nut flush? he was in the big blind for free, maybe he has 3h 4h,.

Question 4: Do you fold here?




I call (ignoring my original correct thinking). He has Kh 2h. I was right, he didn't have the nut flush :shake: .

I lose leaving me with about 550 in chips and end up going out on 99 against AA a few hands later.

Question 5: Bad play or bad beat? ( I don’t think I want to hear the correct answer to this one!!)

[Bama Gambler]

I like your play until the turn. On the turn you should check call. If you bet everyone will fold worse hands and only call or raise better hands. If you check, someone might bluff with a hand worse than yours. In summary check the turn and call any bet. If they check behind and no heart comes on the river then bet 250 again. If the 4th heart comes check and be prepared to fold.

[FSAme]

In summary check the turn and call any bet.

So you'd call the all in 1050 bet after you check the turn?

[Bama Gambler]

In summary check the turn and call any bet.

So you'd call the all in 1050 bet after you check the turn?Depends on who bet all-in. If I had a note on the guy that said maniac then maybe. Otherwise probably not. Risk is not worth the reward. Even if I thought the person that bet all-in didn't have a flush I might not call. If they had a set then they would have at least 9 outs.

[Voter]

I like your play until the turn. On the turn you should check call.
That gives a free card to a bare Ah or Kh. :o

[FSAme]

I like your play until the turn. On the turn you should check call.
That gives a free card to a bare Ah or Kh. :o

That was part of my thinking too. I wanted anyone who was chasing the 4 card flush to have to think about calling my 250. Although I use this tactic more when I have, say top pair, and the flop comes with 2 suited cards, and the turn misses - then I put someone chasing to the test.

[Voter]

Question 5: Bad play or bad beat? ( I don’t think I want to hear the correct answer to this one!!)
Losing a Q-high flush to a higher flush (with 3 on the board) hurts, but you can't live in fear of it, especially from the blinds. I say tough beat (not a bad beat, your opponent's play was fine).

[douglan]

A very unfortunate distribution of cards, for your opponent to have Kh2h in back of you. I would have played it basically the same as you. As Doyle Brunson says, this is the type of hand where a guy is going to win a big pot from you, pretty much regardless of what you do.

Bad luck. Grab a beer the next time this happens. :beer:

[Bama Gambler]

I like your play until the turn. On the turn you should check call.
That gives a free card to a bare Ah or Kh. :oTrue, but they will call anyways and they must have hit something on the flop to call. So if anyone has Ahx or Khx then they would surely call your turn bet.

[Voter]

I like your play until the turn. On the turn you should check call. If you bet everyone will fold worse hands and only call or raise better hands.
...
So if anyone has Ahx or Khx then they would surely call your turn bet.
First - :-? Which is it?

Second - good, I'll beat him 4 times in 5.

[Bama Gambler]

Ok, I maybe wrong about the check on the turn. This is a tough one. Let me ask Freeman.

[Hummer]

I bet on the turn an amount at least equal to my flop bet, so $250 works for me. If I get called, I play assuming he does not have me beat (ie - bet the river too).

If I'm reraised - I check the denomination of the tournament. $30 or under, I call. Over $30 I fold.

[Expunge]

I made the same bet – 250. My Thinking: feeler bet, if he has the nut flush he’ll call or raise it some. If he calls, I check the river, If he raises, I may fold.

He goes all in. My thinking now: Why would he go all in with the nut flush? he was in the big blind for free, maybe he has 3h 4h,.


Your gut was right (the part to fold to a raise) Then you thought about it (likely not 100% rationally). Anyways, why not go all-in with the nut flush, two pair has 4 outs and a set has 10 outs, you have the best of it, why wait till your opponent may have the best of it.

[Bama Gambler]

Just finished talking with Freeman about this hand and here are his summarized thoughts.

He could call 100% of the time pre-flop.
He would bet 250 100% of the time on the flop. And would be ready to call an all-in raise. He said a player like Phil Ivey would likely check-raise all-in at this point.

On the turn it starts to get tricky. He said this is a very tough hand. He said you have two options: bet something like 250 or check. Either way you have to plan a strategy in advance to how you will re-act to your opponent’s decision.

We will look at the bet 250 first:
Why do you bet 250? Because you think you have the best hand and would be happy to win the pot right there. But more importantly to find out if you are already beat. Thus you have to ask yourself if your opponent would raise you all-in with a better flush. If the answer is yes, then tell yourself you will fold to a raise. FSAme, I think discipline got the best of you here. If you think your opponent would re-raise all-in with a worse hand and a better hand then betting 250 is not the best option.

Now let's look at the check (which btw is how Freeman said he prefers to play the hand):
Once you check if your opponents bet small like 250-400 then you call. If he bets big then you fold (likewise on the river). If he checks behind you, then you bet 250 on the river. Why? It's not a bet for value. It's actually a bet to show your hand for the cheapest price. If you check the turn and river an aggressive opponent might bet all-in with a worse hand and then you face another tough decision. But if you bet first then it's less likely he will try to run you off your hand. If he has a King high flush he will definitely call, but that ok b/c if you checked then he would have bet that much anyway and you would have to call.

[Bama Gambler]

Oh and regarding the naked Ah or Kh, it is not a likely holding for the BB given the way the hand played out. Since it's not a likely holding and the odds of him hitting if he did hold it are small, it shouldn't be a reason not to check the turn.

[Hummer]

Oh and regarding the naked Ah or Kh, it is not a likely holding for the BB given the way the hand played out. Since it's not a likely holding and the odds of him hitting if he did hold it are small, it shouldn't be a reason not to check the turn.

I think I understand you, but the double negative threw me off. You would still check the turn despite the small chance of a naked Ah or Kh?

[Bama Gambler]

Oh and regarding the naked Ah or Kh, it is not a likely holding for the BB given the way the hand played out. Since it's not a likely holding and the odds of him hitting if he did hold it are small, it shouldn't be a reason not to check the turn.

I think I understand you, but the double negative threw me off. You would still check the turn despite the small chance of a naked Ah or Kh?I didn't word that very well. Let me try again, Ah Xx or Kh Xx (where x not a heart) is not a likely holding given the way the hand played pre-flop and on the flop. So it is not likely the BB has this hand and if he does have this hand then it is not likely he will make the flush on the river. Because of these two reasons you can check and not worry about giving a free card.

[Happy Extinction]

I wanted to get my thoughts down before reading the other posts.

Question 1: Do you call the 25 with this hand?

Yes

Question 2: what do you do here?

Check/fold - As first to act you get no information about what other people have so I see what others want to do. You are beaten in so many ways and are in a position to lose all your chips. We how dangerous hands like this can be and I think you should always play them tenderly in the early stages

If someone comes with a pot sized bet i fold. If someone limps in, I maybe go over the top with pot sized bet or maybe call for a free card. My guess is the Kx dude would have bet and you could have laid down.

If i was heads up I might play this strong but not here with 3 callers and 8 or 9 left in the game.

Question 4: Do you fold here?

I Probably sit and think about how I should probably fold because I have no clue what he has - and then call just like you did. It's the wrong play.

With hands like this I look for a reason to fold. He has given you two big reasons - big call after flop and all in on turn.

Also I try not to put all my chips in play unless i am quite sure I have him beat.

Question 5: Bad play or bad beat?

Doesn't matter as long as you learned something from your play.

BTW, I have been playing terribly lately so take my commenst with a grain of salt.

[Happy Extinction]

Looks like my comments don't match the rest - I still think you play this hand non aggressively.