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Expunge
04-28-2004, 02:17 PM
Ok how about we set up poker ratings for when a couple of us meet up in a single or double table tournament.

The person with the higher finish gets what amounts to a win. The person with the lower finish gets a loss.

Modified from the chess ratings, a new player gets a base rating of 1000. A win adjusts the players rating by the following formula. W * .9 + (L + 500) * .1 Always round the winners rating down to the nearest integer. A loss is very similar L * .9 + (W – 500) * .1 always round the losers rating up.

Side rules for this. Your rating cannot decrease when you win (ie. if you’re ranked 500 or more points above your opponent you do not suffer for winning, however you can suffer (and greatly so by losing)). The opposite is also true, your rating cannot increase when you lose.

If you’re in a multi table event (including those two table sng’s) you and your opponent must dealt in the hand at the same table when one of you is eliminated.

What do you think? Would people be able to adjust the ratings on their own, or would one person need to be in charge of that? Do we need to modify any of the formula? Add any other rules?

Sotally Tober
04-28-2004, 02:24 PM
Ok how about we set up poker ratings for when a couple of us meet up in a single or double table tournament.

The person with the higher finish gets what amounts to a win. The person with the lower finish gets a loss.

Modified from the chess ratings, a new player gets a base rating of 1000. A win adjusts the players rating by the following formula. W * .9 + (L + 500) * .1 Always round the winners rating down to the nearest integer. A loss is very similar L * .9 + (W – 500) * .1 always round the losers rating up.

Side rules for this. Your rating cannot decrease when you win (ie. if you’re ranked 500 or more points above your opponent you do not suffer for winning, however you can suffer (and greatly so by losing)). The opposite is also true, your rating cannot increase when you lose.

If you’re in a multi table event (including those two table sng’s) you and your opponent must dealt in the hand at the same table when one of you is eliminated.

What do you think? Would people be able to adjust the ratings on their own, or would one person need to be in charge of that? Do we need to modify any of the formula? Add any other rules?

:rofl: You, my friend, are out of control. This GAME is taking over your life. Now you're soliciting work to do.

Expunge
04-28-2004, 02:29 PM
:rofl: You, my friend, are out of control. This GAME is taking over your life.
No it took my life over a couple months ago.
Now you're soliciting work to do.
No i'm hoping players could track their own ratings.

FSAme
04-28-2004, 02:36 PM
Heck, we're on stars now, just play heads up.

I personally don't think I'd take the time to update my own rankings.

I do love the idea of tournaments, and am getting exciting for May 17, but am not interested in keeping separate rankings.

Just my thoughts.

Sotally Tober
04-28-2004, 02:40 PM
No it took my life over a couple months ago.
Good point.

No i'm hoping players could track their own ratings. No chance. Unless I'm allowed to lie. :P

O. Hannah
04-28-2004, 02:52 PM
My rating is my account balance. :D

If I'm in an SNG against you guys I couldn't care less if I get 5th instead of 4th instead of 9th....they all pay the same. I will play the exact same way if I play Monday nights in the league....my goal is to get in the money...not score points.

My current goals are to play a dozen or so more \$5 SNG and then re-evaluate my situation. So far I've place 2, 3 & 5 and while I've been less than impressed by the quality of player there I've already discovered a few things I don't like about my game (and those are the things I know about) :D

MNBridge
04-29-2004, 11:38 AM
My rating is my account balance. :D

I hear ya brother!

O. Hannah
04-29-2004, 12:56 PM
My rating is my account balance. :D

I hear ya brother!

Yay! I got another 3rd in a \$5 SNG last night. I got GREAT cards (for the first time in a SNG) early and built up a nice chip total...then coasted into the money with an occasional steal once my cards went ice-cold. (I think I get too timid once I get my stack up because I'm really just trying to get into the top 3)

My goal is to get into the \$\$\$ and I'm wondering if that is costing me my shot for 1st? Sample is still WAY too small...just looking for (more) flaws in my game that I know are there. (I've made it to the money 3/4 so far)

PatsFan12
04-29-2004, 01:21 PM
My rating is my account balance. :D

I hear ya brother!

Yay! I got another 3rd in a \$5 SNG last night. I got GREAT cards (for the first time in a SNG) early and built up a nice chip total...then coasted into the money with an occasional steal once my cards went ice-cold. (I think I get too timid once I get my stack up because I'm really just trying to get into the top 3)

My goal is to get into the \$\$\$ and I'm wondering if that is costing me my shot for 1st? Sample is still WAY too small...just looking for (more) flaws in my game that I know are there. (I've made it to the money 3/4 so far)

I've found that playing for the top 3 leaves me with fewer first place finishes. You have to play like there is only 1 person getting any prize money (good attitude for \$5 SnG, but maybe not so if there are two spots to the WSOP on the line). When I play for the top three I tend to play differently and then when I get to the final three the leader had a stack much larger than mine. You have to make your moves when you have them, not sit back and hope to just get paid.

That reminded me of this story. One time I played a \$5 SnG and a guy who was doing pretty well had to leave the game (probably about \$2500-3000) in chips after 25 minutes or so. So they just leave him in the game and blind him out eventually. When we got down to four people (fast tournament) the guy had more chips than I did so I couldn't just fold away hands until he was blinded out even if I wanted to. I wound up going out in fourth and the guy who left the tournament at the 25 minute mark wound up in the money.

O. Hannah
04-29-2004, 02:05 PM
Thanks for the input, it is greatly appreciated and confirms what I've been suspecting.

I'm going to have to weigh what I want to do...in the longer term... Frankly, I think I'd be happy to get 2nd or 3rd 75% of the time (if that's possible :D)

Does this type of pattern hold as you get to 10, 20 and higher SNG's? Or do more people just shoot for getting in the money there?

I calculate a higher EV winning 2nd 25% of the time and 3rd 40% with no 1sts than if I get 1st 20% of the time and 2nd & 3rd 10% each.

I don't think my style is hurting my chances at 2nd...but is killing my shot at 1st....but I will know more after another dozen or more SNG's

Hummer
04-29-2004, 04:28 PM
Thanks for the input, it is greatly appreciated and confirms what I've been suspecting.

I'm going to have to weigh what I want to do...in the longer term... Frankly, I think I'd be happy to get 2nd or 3rd 75% of the time (if that's possible :D)

Does this type of pattern hold as you get to 10, 20 and higher SNG's? Or do more people just shoot for getting in the money there?

I calculate a higher EV winning 2nd 25% of the time and 3rd 40% with no 1sts than if I get 1st 20% of the time and 2nd & 3rd 10% each.

I don't think my style is hurting my chances at 2nd...but is killing my shot at 1st....but I will know more after another dozen or more SNG's

I think your sample size is WAY too small to draw any conclusions. With that said, way to go on your first four tourneys. Keep it up, and report back as you add more finishes (and likely titles :D )

O. Hannah
04-29-2004, 04:44 PM
Yep, I have a ton to learn and the \$5 SNG's are just a nice little way for me to gather more experience and hopefully generate enough surplus to continue to gradually move up to higher \$\$\$ games.

I have no illusions about being a great NL player but all I'm striving for at this point is to just improve. (I think that is an easy goal considering my current ability :D )

Expunge
04-29-2004, 11:05 PM
OK, some of you expressed interest in this again. How about voluntary participation. Sign in if you're interested.

vegas
04-29-2004, 11:13 PM
Give me my points!!! ;)

Hummer
04-30-2004, 11:28 AM
Give me my points!!! ;)

1. You see too many flops
2. You call too much
3. You...

Oh, you said points, not pointers. :D

Only kidding, nice work on the win.

FSAme
04-30-2004, 11:32 AM
I thought we were supposed to put poker in the title.

:o

Sotally Tober
04-30-2004, 11:34 AM
I'm in for another. Just let me know where to be, when to be there, and how much to donate.

SP0NGE, you gonna set it up private or as a 2-table again? Just curious.

Expunge
04-30-2004, 11:54 AM
An "if we all participated in the rankings"

Based on last nights tourney i have ratings as follows...

1050 vegasmoj
1037 lawfive
1025 sp0nge
1012 bizman782
1000 mountain hawk
988 sr70
975 rdavey
963 hardinda
950 mnpoker

My 1025 comes from....

(prev * .9) + (500 * wins/#opps *.1) - (500 * losses/#opps *.1) + (avg of opps prev rating * .1)
1000*.9 + 500*6/8*.1 - 500 *2/8*.1 + 1000*.1
1025

Hummer
04-30-2004, 12:00 PM
An "if we all participated in the rankings"

Based on last nights tourney i have ratings as follows...

1050 vegasmoj
1037 lawfive
1025 sp0nge
1012 bizman782
1000 mountain hawk
988 sr70
975 rdavey
963 hardinda
950 mnpoker

My 1025 comes from....

(prev * .9) + (500 * wins/#opps *.1) - (500 * losses/#opps *.1) + (avg of opps prev rating * .1)
1000*.9 + 500*6/8*.1 - 500 *2/8*.1 + 1000*.1
1025

Oh that makes sense, :shake:

Here's how I score it (for last nights' tourney):
Vegas \$31 (36 - 5)
lawfive \$4 (9 - 5)
SP0NGE \$-5
bizman782 \$-5
Mountainhawk \$-5
rdavey \$-5
hardinda \$-5
mnpoker \$-5

(edited to fix Vegas' payout)

Expunge
04-30-2004, 12:06 PM
An "if we all participated in the rankings"

Based on last nights tourney i have ratings as follows...

1050 vegasmoj
1037 lawfive
1025 sp0nge
1012 bizman782
1000 mountain hawk
988 sr70
975 rdavey
963 hardinda
950 mnpoker

My 1025 comes from....

(prev * .9) + (500 * wins/#opps *.1) - (500 * losses/#opps *.1) + (avg of opps prev rating * .1)
1000*.9 + 500*6/8*.1 - 500 *2/8*.1 + 1000*.1
1025

Oh that makes sense, :shake:

Here's how I score it (for last nights' tourney):
Vegas \$32 (37 - 5)
lawfive \$4 (9 - 5)
SP0NGE \$-5
bizman782 \$-5
Mountainhawk \$-5
rdavey \$-5
hardinda \$-5
mnpoker \$-5

Your analysis does not take into account the strength of the non forum fish that find their way into our tourney.

But the again my rankings is designed more for when only 2 people meet at a SnG and not when we have half the field.

I was quite shocked that two outsiders made it to the money and as a groupthe RF is down \$4.50 in fees. for the event.

Expunge
04-30-2004, 12:09 PM
An "if we all participated in the rankings"

Based on last nights tourney i have ratings as follows...

1050 vegasmoj
1037 lawfive
1025 sp0nge
1012 bizman782
1000 mountain hawk
988 sr70
975 rdavey
963 hardinda
950 mnpoker

My 1025 comes from....

(prev * .9) + (500 * wins/#opps *.1) - (500 * losses/#opps *.1) + (avg of opps prev rating * .1)
1000*.9 + 500*6/8*.1 - 500 *2/8*.1 + 1000*.1
1025

Oh that makes sense, :shake:

Here's how I score it (for last nights' tourney):
Vegas \$32 (37 - 5)
lawfive \$4 (9 - 5)
SP0NGE \$-5
bizman782 \$-5
Mountainhawk \$-5
rdavey \$-5
hardinda \$-5
mnpoker \$-5

Your analysis does not take into account the strength of the non forum fish that find their way into our tourney.

But the again my rankings is designed more for when only 2 people meet at a SnG and not when we have half the field.

I was quite shocked that two outsiders made it to the money and as a groupthe RF is down \$4.50 in fees. for the event.

ps how did vegas get 37 back, and how did you miss sr70.

Sotally Tober
04-30-2004, 12:24 PM
How about this point system? It's simple and it's used. We'd have to change the ranges in assigning points for each of the 3 crtieria, but that should be easy enough.

http://new.cardplayer.com/tournaments/poycriteria.php

I'd suggest:

There are three criteria when calculating points:
Number of entrants
Place finished at the final table

Note: If there is a tie between two or more players, each receives the average number of points available. For example, if two players tie for ninth place, each receives half of the ninth-place points. Players receive points only if they are “in the money.” If a tournament pays only five places, only the top five players get points. In stud events, eight players will receive points; in other events, nine will receive points.
Total points are calculated by multiplying the point factors of the three criteria:

Place finished - first place receives 120 points; second place, 100; third place, 80; fourth place, 60; fifth place, 50; sixth place, 40; seventh place, 30; eighth place, 20; and ninth place, 10.

Buy-ins - \$5 = 1 point, \$10 = 2 points, \$15 = 3 points, and \$20 and higher = 4 points.

Number of entrants - 2-9 = 1 point. Every additional number of entrants increases the number of points by 0.1. The maximum number of points is 4. Examples are: 18 players = 1.9 point, 25 players = 2.6 points, 33 players = 3.4 points, and 39+ players = 4 points.

Triweasel
04-30-2004, 12:57 PM
An "if we all participated in the rankings"

Based on last nights tourney i have ratings as follows...

1050 vegasmoj
1037 lawfive
1025 sp0nge
1012 bizman782
1000 mountain hawk
988 sr70
975 rdavey
963 hardinda
950 mnpoker

My 1025 comes from....

(prev * .9) + (500 * wins/#opps *.1) - (500 * losses/#opps *.1) + (avg of opps prev rating * .1)
1000*.9 + 500*6/8*.1 - 500 *2/8*.1 + 1000*.1
1025

How many bonus points do you get for calling that guy's all in with 52o?
j/k you were big blind right?

MNBridge
04-30-2004, 01:00 PM
I'm in again. Let me know where / when.

Expunge
04-30-2004, 01:09 PM
How many bonus points do you get for calling that guy's all in with 52o?
j/k you were big blind right?

:-? i'm pretty sure i didn't call someones all-in with 52. oh wait mybe i think i know what you're talking about. bizman782 went all in for less than the big blind, i was in the big blind and actually got back a portion of my BB. So i didn't really call his bet. he called my blind.

Expunge
04-30-2004, 01:10 PM
I'm in again. Let me know where / when.

everynight at 9. meet here at the forum chat a few minutes early. we won't wait up unless we're sure someone else is coming in the next 5 mins.

Triweasel
04-30-2004, 01:14 PM
How many bonus points do you get for calling that guy's all in with 52o?
j/k you were big blind right?

:-? i'm pretty sure i didn't call someones all-in with 52. oh wait mybe i think i know what you're talking about. bizman782 went all in for less than the big blind, i was in the big blind and actually got back a portion of my BB. So i didn't really call his bet. he called my blind.

yeah that was it - pretty funny.
he had like J3 or something too. I guess he was all in on that hand or the next one...

Expunge
04-30-2004, 01:44 PM
Using my point system formula from the other league...
Required for using my point system, there needs to be more forum members that places paid.

4.61 vegasmoj
2.30 lawfive
2.06 SP0NGE
1.88 bizman782
1.74 Mountainhawk
1.63 SR70
1.46 rdavey
1.39 hardinda
1.28 mnpoker

Hummer
04-30-2004, 01:50 PM
Using my point system formula from the other league...
Required for using my point system, there needs to be more forum members that places paid.

4.61 vegasmoj
2.30 lawfive
2.06 SP0NGE
1.88 bizman782
1.74 Mountainhawk
1.63 SR70
1.46 rdavey
1.39 hardinda
1.28 mnpoker

I like this better, except it still favors quantity of play over quality.

Expunge
04-30-2004, 01:52 PM
Using my point system formula from the other league...
Required for using my point system, there needs to be more forum members that places paid.

4.61 vegasmoj
2.30 lawfive
2.06 SP0NGE
1.88 bizman782
1.74 Mountainhawk
1.63 SR70
1.46 rdavey
1.39 hardinda
1.28 mnpoker

I like this better, except it still favors quantity of play over quality.

Avg points per tourney is an easy mod to this. It would still favor those that play in high buyin tourneys vs low buy in tourneys.