God d*mn it what's taking so long?!

[Anonymous]

When the hell is the bombing going to start?!

All talk, no action, what a load.

[Griffin 1]

It is clear that you haven't been paying attention.

[Anonymous]

When you give someone three days to comply, it kinda implies action. If you give them three days, and don't do anything, then you look stupid and weak. This is embarrassing. Either be ready to act on them, or don't hand out ultimatums.

"We want action or you're going to pay. You have three days to do this or .... we'll give you a few more weeks. We want action or our military will take justice!!! If you don't do it by then well ... we'll give you years. But d*mn it you better listen or there'll be hell to pay!!!"

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: anon on 2001-09-22 20:45 ]</font>

[Griffin 1]

How do you know that:
1) The US is going to drop bombs?
2) They will make an announcement before they take action?
3) They will make an announcement after action is taken?

[Anonymous]

I want to be able to wake up, and hear that the US has launched a massive attack on anything associated even moderately associated with the Taliban.

Who cares if the Taliban wants to retreat to the mountains where they can terrorize and ambush our troops? We'll show them, we won't send any ground troops. We'll just keep bombing the crap out of them whenever they come out of the mountains. They can't touch our planes. And if anyone says sh** they get bombed too. We lost 6,000 lives for God's sake.

This lack of action is making me angry and sick. I was certain something would happen this weekend, and nothing. What a pitiful country we are if a government can blow up our buildings, spit in our face when we ask for mere justice, and not even feel a single bit of pain.

If this continues Bush will be impeached in the near future, and will go down as the most disgraceful president ever.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: anon on 2001-09-22 22:58 ]</font>

[Griffin 1]

"I want to be able to wake up, and hear that the US has launched a massive attack on anything associated even moderately associated with the Taliban."

Well, it probably won't happen. There most likely won't be a "massive attack", and when action is taken, you probably won't hear about it right away. Get over it.

[Hierophant]

You want action? Results are already happening, and we haven't had to risk U.S. troops yet.

Basically, everyone is lining up with the U.S.; and Afghanistan and the Taliban are feeling very isolated. Confidence in Afghanistan is very low.

As a result, there are unconfirmed reports that anti-Taliban rebels in Afghanistan have taken over a number of villages and killed any number of Taliban forces.

As I said, unconfirmed.

Meanwhile, U.S. troops, ships and planes are due to be in place in various locations by Wednesday.

The Taliban will feel the same pressure that Saddam felt (or should have felt) leading up to Desert Storm - the ultimatum, the gathering of allied support, the movement of forces - then waves of bombing, etc, etc, as tactically appropriate.

The hit and dodge tactics used against the Russians will not work - our spy satellites will be able to follow the Taliban forces to their hiding places and then we can smoke them out.

[Anonymous]

From this CNN special, the Taliban are just a bunch of ruthless criminals. They kill Afghan civilians randomly and make their money from drug dealing. We should destroy their "government." Supposedly British SAS troops are on the ground in Afghanistan assisting their northern alliance. Maybe we can provide them air support.

[Anonymous]

This is the kind of spirit we need to feel better about our country. Found it on the net:

Are you f***ing kidding me? Are the turbans
on your heads wrapped too tight? Have you gone too
long without a bath? Do you not know who you are
f***ing with? Americans are so hungry to kill, that we
shoot at each other every day. We will relish that
opportunity for new targets for our aggression.

Have you forgotten history? What happened to the
last people that started f***ing around with us?
Remember the little yellow b******s over in Japan? We
slapped them all over the Pacific and roasted about 2
million of them in their own back yard. That's what
we in America call a big ass barbecue. Ever seen Texas
on a map? Ever wonder why it's so big? Because we
wanted it that way. Mexico started jacking around with
the Alamo and now they cut our lawns.

Ask your buddy Saddam about f***ing with the good
'ole USA. The only reason he got away the first time
is because it's too hard to shoot someone when you're
doubled over laughing at them. Our soldiers aren't
trained to laugh and shoot at the same time. Now he
couldn't stop a pack of cub scouts from taking over
his sh**ty little country.

Trust us, Afghanistan will end up a giant kitty
litter box. Go ahead and try to hide, Bin Laden.
There's not a hole deep enough or a mountain high
enough that's going to keep your camel riding asses
safe. We will bomb every inch of the country that
harbors him, his camps and any place that looks and
even smells like he was there. Hell, we might even
drop a few bombs on people that have pissed us off in
the past.

This is America. We kick ass. This is what we do.
Go ahead and laugh now, but the Tomahawks are coming
and very soon we will smoke your sorry asses.

God bless America!

[Anonymous]

The only thing that makes me feel better is thinking of the massacre that's going to happen in that area once we get started. Every part of the world has had to learn their lesson about messing with the US. I think the mid-east is going to feel it worst than the others put togethor.

If I were them I'd start talking to the British, Mexicans, Japanese, Germans/French, Russians and Iraqi's about how to get on with life once we hit. This is going to be such a massacre.

[Hierophant]

Saddam and Iraq was just business, and you see what an a**-kicking he got.

This is personal, and anybody not involved is well advised to get out of the way.

[Ranger]

Remember your history.

Just like in 1991 - the attack of our stealth fighters and bombers will begin under cover of night - and a new moon. You'll have to be patient for another few weeks.

[Aaron Brachowitz]

We can do it quick or we can do it right. Sending in cruise missiles and bombing strikes from 15,000 feet (a la Clinton) accomplishes very little. Air power works best in coordination with units on the ground who can ID targets, block escape routes, call for follow-up strikes, and assess damage. As an example, what's more effective -- bombing an area known to have terrorist camps, or having eyes on the ground to call for a strike when the camp is actually occupied? We've been training Special Forces and SEALs for years for just this type of thing. The point is, let's really slaughter these SOBs, not just scare them.

[Anonymous]

"We can do it quick or we can do it right. Sending in cruise missiles and bombing strikes from 15,000 feet (a la Clinton) accomplishes very little. "

It accomplished a lot, it made bin laden a hero to radical factions in the Islamic world.

All our embassays stand on US SOIL and we did a half ass job after they were bombed to make us feel good. WHAT BULL sh**. Old billy boy skrewed up and american did not care because we still were making money.

I want to say how very sad, but I forgot, they changed the Gettysburg address to "Of the corporations, for the corporations, "We can do it quick or we can do it right. Sending in cruise missiles and bombing strikes from 15,000 feet (a la Clinton) accomplishes very little. "

It accomplished a lot, it made bin laden a hero to radical factions in the Islamic world.

THe embassays are US SOIL and we did a half ass job to make us feel good. WHAT BULL sh**. Old billy boy skrewed up and american did not care because we still were making money.

"We can do it quick or we can do it right. Sending in cruise missiles and bombing strikes from 15,000 feet (a la Clinton) accomplishes very little. "

How very sad.

But I forgot, they changed the Gettysburg address to "Of the corporations, by the corporations and "We can do it quick or we can do it right. Sending in cruise missiles and bombing strikes from 15,000 feet (a la Clinton) accomplishes very little. "

It accomplished a lot, it made bin laden a hero to radical factions in the Islamic world.

THe embassays are US SOIL and we did a half ass job to make us feel good. WHAT BULL sh**. Old billy boy skrewed up and american did not care because we still were making money.

"We can do it quick or we can do it right. Sending in cruise missiles and bombing strikes from 15,000 feet (a la Clinton) accomplishes very little. "

How very sad.

But I forgot, they changed the Gettysburg address to "Of the corporations, by the corporations, and for the corporations"

So we only get pissed when our way of making money is threatened.

[Guerilla poster]

I was just waiting for the Clinton bashers to start pinning this one on Clinton as well. Everything that happens for the next 10 years is Clinton's fault

I think I now understand osama bin Laden's hatred for the US. it is similar to the hatred of the right for Clinton and their willingness to do almost anything to see his downfall. Of course, Clinton is an evil man so it is all justified (sarcasm on).

[Aaron Brachowitz]

On 2001-09-24 11:06, Guerilla Poster wrote:
I was just waiting for the Clinton bashers to start pinning this one on Clinton as well. Everything that happens for the next 10 years is Clinton's fault

I don't blame Clinton for bin Laden's existence or for Arab terrorists any more than any of his predecessors. But his chosen method of retaliation was classic, split-the-difference, have-it-both-ways Bill Clinton; 95% style and 5% substance.

[Guerilla poster]

Do you really think that Clinton could have gotten support for a ground invasion of Bin Laden in 1998? He was fighting for his political life because Clinton bashers were more concerned with where he put his pensis than the security of the nation.

i see the Clinton bashers rising up again - I have heard talk that they are bashing Hilary for not smiling during Bush's speech. For the love of god when is this hatred of the Clintons going to end - move on, we have bigger fish to fry.

[The Mister]

<font size=2>Actually, I noticed Hillary's - erm - lack of enthusiasm and assumed that she simply hadn't had much sleep. I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.

[Han Solo]

Even I noticed Hilary looking like she wanted to be anywhere there but listening to that speech. It's not that she wasn't smiling, but her whole body language - the slow clapping especially - just made her look bad. I wonder if she knew she was on camera.

And yes, I am a democrat.

The other thing I noticed during the speech was that one of the congresswomen was wearing a yellow dress. I don't know who it was, but every time they showed a shot of the whole house, she stood out like a sore thumb in that sea of red white and blue.

[E. Blackadder]

I'd have supported anything Clinton would have done that didn't look transparently political.

If he'd treated the Taliban the way he treated the Republican majority in congress, the world would be a much better place. :smile:

[Guerilla poster]

And if the Republican majority and right wing faction would have treated the Taliban and bin laden the way they they treated Clinton, I am sure the terrorists would have fallen to such a barrage.

[The Mister]

On 2001-09-24 12:06, I wrote:
Actually, I noticed Hillary's - erm - lack of enthusiasm and assumed that she simply hadn't had much sleep. I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.<font size=2>I should add that, since she is a senator from NY, she may have had a number of friends who died in the attack.

[The Mister]

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The Mister on 2001-09-24 15:03 ]</font>

[Guerilla poster]

in retrospect, I feel bad about my post.

[Anonymous]

I am not right wing, Repblican, or Democrat; I am so Left wing that maybe I am right wing. IT gets so confusing when I am flying!

I am Libertarian

NOW ONTO CLINTON:

One cannot deny that after shooting the cruise missiles, bin Laden popularity and boldness grew enormously. CLINTON SKREWED UP - IT WAS HIS ORDERS AND IT WAS ON HIS WATCH. Where is the bash in that?????

It is correct in saying he could not have mustered support for ground troups. WHOSE FAULT IS THAT? The republicans were not holding the cigar, BILL was. (My children like blaming everyone else when they screw up; but they have an excuse for not taking responsibility for their actions, they are all under age 6) He gave the Republicans the ammunitions and the republicans tried to use it. DID HE NOT EXPECT THIS? Gee, I would hope he did, otherwise how Naive was he?

I can hear it now: bin Laden's popularity growth is due to some right wing conspiracy to discredit Clinton.

I suppose I am also going to hear the myth that Clinton is the reason the economy was so good in the 1990s Lets not forget that Clinton himself was the cause of decreasing racial tension in this country and the lowering of the crime rate - These things had nothing to do with the economic growth in the 90's. NOPE IT WAS ALL SAINT BILL, the miracle worker. So often-persecuted but always as pure and innocent as the first snow (in Gary, Indiana)

-- I guess I could say that maybe CLinton was responsible for the economic growth in the 90's and all the good that came out of it BECAUSE that was the one thing he was smart enought to not touch. But I came to my senses!

[Guerilla poster]

Don't get me wrong. Clinton was no saint and did many stupid things in office.

My belief is that the country was entirely unfocused on important issues over the last eight years. Part of this was Clinton's fault and part of this was the fault of the witchhunt that started the day Bush lost to Clinton. The right was willing to do anything to get Clinton and Clinton fought fire with fire. of course, Clinton is too blame for much of it but I think the right is almost equally at blame for the divisions and lack of clear focus on important issues (such as the threat of terrorism and how to solve it).

hopefully the tone of politics will change and the witchhunts will be over and all issues can be decided on debating the issues not whether the person got some oral gratification from a 20 year old.

[Hierophant]

Same hunt, new witch.

[Anonymous]

Guerilla Poster,

I understand now, and agree.

Also, I always look for what the congress/president will try sneaking past when we are distracted by meaningless issues.

[independent]

" ... and the right is equally to blame"

Correct, but don't forget the public that is much more interested in OJ or Monica than in some story that starts "New report shows that US airport's anti-hijacking measures are inadequate".

[Indep]

"The point is, let's really slaughter these SOBs, not just scare them."

It's nice to see the good ole' Christians participating! You forgot to mention what a shame it is to lose any human life.

[Anonymous]

"Also, I always look for what the congress/president will try sneaking past when we are distracted by meaningless issues."

Considering that a huge number of Americans can't even place the Civil War in the correct century, I don't think that Congress or the President worry too much about waiting until we're distracted.

[Griffin 1]

What is "a huge number"? And are we talking about people being confused by the 19th Century taking place during the 1800's, or are we talking about people honestly not know when the Civil War took place?

[Botsy]

EB, will you bring up the carpetbagging issue if/when Mrs. Dole runs for Senate.

[Jala]

At least Liz Dole has lived in NC.

[Botsy]

Since she lived there many decades ago, does it mean that she wouldn't qualify as a carpet bagger?

Is she going to move her permanent residence to NC? Clinton now lives in NY (well, Bill does).

I don't really care if she runs. If the voters are willing to vote for her, then great for her, but I think it's interesting that those who critcize Clinton for this would support Dole.

[Jala]

I have no idea if that would qualify her as a carpetbagger. Nor do I have any idea if HC qualifies as a carpetbagger. If they each satisfy their respective states' qualifications, that's all that is necessary. But, I would vote for LD as a North Carolinian before I would vote for HC as a New Yorker.

[Joined10MinBefore911Hit]

I'm pretty sure Elizabeth Dole not only lived in, but is a native of Salisbury, NC.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AcademicRefugee on 2001-09-25 17:30 ]</font>

[alex]

Speaking of folk at yosimite sam's much lauded speech to congress, did you see that four of the supreme court justices (o'connor, renquist, thomas and scalia) were all clustered together, pressing flesh with the man they voted in for president? and what's wrong with yellow. I'm sick of red white and blue already. I was sick of it after that hokey rendition of "God bless america" on 9/11. That's maybe the ugliest photo op in history.

[Hierophant]

Alex, you misguided, ignorant, liberal wimp:

Yellow is the color of cowardice.
The attacks of 9/11 were an attack on America, the great country that allows even miscreant fools such as yourself to spout your drivel, even as you sip your gourmet coffee and ride home in your Lexus.

Red, white and blue is the color of patriotism. In case you hadn't noticed, it says "I am an American! You wanna piece of me? You took a shot at me on 9/11, and now I'm p***ed off!"

So, go ahead Alex, show your true colors and wear yellow. Whether you like it or not, the enemy is after you just as much as anyone who wears Red, White & Blue. You are an American, and God Bless You and God Bless America!

[Aaron Brachowitz]

On 2001-09-26 00:25, Hierophant wrote:
Whether you like it or not, the enemy is after you just as much as anyone who wears Red, White & Blue.


That's a good point. I was watching Hannity & Colmes last night and one of their guests was a wretched left-wing activist woman from some campus peace group, spouting her cr*p about the evil policies of the US in the world for, oh, the last 225 years. And I was thinking, those terrorists would have killed your America-hating a$$ in a microsecond if they had a chance.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Aaron Brachowitz on 2001-09-26 11:34 ]</font>

[Anonymous]

The colors red, white, and blue did not have meanings for The Stars and Stripes when it was adopted in 1777. However, the colors in the Great Seal did have specific meanings. Charles Thompson, Secretary of the Continental Congress, reporting to Congress on the Seal, stated:

"The colors of the pales (the vertical stripes) are those used in the flag of the United States of America; White signifies purity and innocence, Red, hardiness & valour, and Blue, the color of the Chief (the broad band above the stripes) signifies vigilance, perseverance & justice."
Also this from a book about the flag published in 1977 by the House of Representatives...

"The star is a symbol of the heavens and the divine goal to which man has aspired from time immemorial; the stripe is symbolic of the rays of light emanating from the sun."


From
http://www.usflag.org/colors.html
and
http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/cic_text/misc/ourflag/greatseal.htm


Further:

UNITED STATES CODE
TITLE 36 - PATRIOTIC SOCIETIES AND OBSERVANCES
CHAPTER 10 - PATRIOTIC CUSTOMS

http://www.treefort.org/~rgrogan/web/flaglaw.htm

[alex]

On 2001-09-26 00:25, Hierophant wrote:


Yellow is the color of cowardice.


So, maybe we should all wear yellow. Our leaders no longer have the courage to demand that law enforcement treat arab-americans the same as other americans. I'll be d*mned! I think this makes us a country of cowards, and we should all wear yellow proudly, from head to toe. Maybe for each "middle eastern looking" citizen or guest that our savvy airport security is sharp enough to question, we should make our yellow one shade brighter, and blind the world with our cowardice. G-d bless america!

[Hierophant]

Sorry, Alex, but I am reminded of a line from an old Arlo Guthrie song, which goes more or less like:

"This is America; we'll screw anybody." (In reference to law enforcement & FBI in the 60's and 70's.)

I still think this is true, and I think the FBI spends a lot of time and resources profiling Timothy McVeigh-types as well as Arabs as well as Chinese, etc, etc.

Yellow as cowardice would look something like the Japanese internment in WWII. The only yellow we are seeing now is that of caution.
You and I are so used to our freedoms that we don't even notice them. You ever walk into a hospital, go right up to a patient floor, and visit your family member or friend who was sick; all without showing any ID, etc.?

Our freedom carries with it vulnerability; that vulnerability is offset by a population that is predominantly responsible and worthy of the trust implicit in the freedom.

[Jen]

Claps for Han Solo.

I can't agree more with you. Hil Clint just looked so stiff and dead over there. What the hell was and is she thinking?

I am neither democrat nor republican but I just couldn't figure out why the heck that woman showed up anywhere you could see her around?