Bioattack?

[an2001on]

Newspapers reported UNIDENTIFIED airplanes made several passes over the water reservoir that is the main source of drinking water in Boston. They are testing the water now and it SEEMS OK.
I am worried that local security in our country is always a step too late. No war on our territory for so many years... And the residents (legal or not) are enjoying so much freedom. As a result, it’s very hard to make sure nothing wrong happens. Also, what to focus on? Why don't they invite some advisors from the countries that had to deal with the terrorists every day (like Israel)? I'm sure they would help to identify the most vulnerable points. While the top military commanders make plans for the attacks on terrorists the homeland security seems to be far from adequate. One of the major tasks of the Government is to protect the citizens. Naturally, they need to eliminate the terrorist camps abroad but what about the millions who might be getting some deadly disease? Are they protected? What about the nuclear plants? Would doubt they can withstand the impact from an airplane.
What do you think?

[Anonymous]

We don't need Israel, our people are better and smarter. I'm hoping we cut ties with them as much as possible.

[Han Solo]

"We don't need Israel, our people are better and smarter. I'm hoping we cut ties with them as much as possible."

You're right anon, our airport security is just as good as Israel.... wait,..... it's not? Do'h!

[Actuary321]

An article in our local paper (SLC area) indicated that it would be nearly impossible to totally protect against a terrorist attack against our drinking water supply. Security preparations for the olympics have gotten a real boost from the 9/11 tragidy. They are going to be putting up more fences and adding security measures but they admit that it would provide little defense against a determined terrorist.

[Patience]

story doesn't make sense. Last week I heard that the feds were concerned about the Boston water supply and were cracking down.

I seriously doubt if the story of the plane is true

[an2001on]

Patience,
You can check it yourself if in doubt:
WSJ 9/24/01 pp.A1, A10 - on 9/13/01 UNIDENTIFIED speedboat entered the restricted area of San-Francisco Folsom Lake (source of water supply)
BostonMETRO 9/24/01 p.7 - on 9/22/01 two (!)UNIDENTIFIED planes around 12:30pm and LATER around 4:30pm made several passes about 100 feet over Quabbin Reservoir (major source of drinking water in Boston area).
If they were concerned about water supply in Boston and were cracking down, I am even more disappointed with them - they definitely need help!

anon,
Pride is good when mixed in healthy proportions with common sense and reality check. Aero-space, military, medical advances, technology - we have every reason to be proud. Security ... I seriously doubt. Imagine security staff who can't even IDENTIFY the planes clearly violating the rules, make SEVERAL passes only 100 feet over the "protected" reservoir, moreover, security erred TWICE (12:30 and 4:30). Do you think that this security personnel is very qualified and you can trust them with your life? Do you still feel that they don't need any help? If you don't like Israelis, maybe you can suggest somebody else with experience who can help us. The reason I thought of Israelis is obvious - they had to think it through many times and they paid with blood for their lessons. There's no reason to pay with our blood for the same lessons again. What do you think?

[OT]

My wife and I are currently looking into water filtration system(s) and even gas mask protection.

[an2001on]

I am wondering if boiling the water for several minutes would do the trick. What about bottled water? Also eating out becomes trickier. Plus, other people that you meet might get sick and spread the disease. However, if most of people are careful we might win.

[Anonymous]

I would live it up while you can. Do something wreckless.

[OT]

I am not an expert but just from reading a few web sites and books I gathered the following (to the best of my ability to recall):

Biological threats are germs (anthrax, small pox, ebola, etc.). The world is supposed to be entirely rid of small pox with the exception of only the US and Russia having them in labs in order to create vaccines. Hence I believe that the US stopped vaccinating everyone for small pox in 1970. Anthrax is particularly bad if inhaled and has a longer incubation time (2-6 weeks) and more sever illness when symptoms actually arise. Anthrax can also be caught through open skin (cuts, scrapes, etc.) but is not as sever as inhaling it.

Chemical threads are like mustard gas and various nerve and tear gasses. Many nerve gases can affect you just by touching your skin. Tear gases much come into contact with a mucus membrane somehow (swallow, smelled, eyes).

As far as breathing protection there are two basic types: gas masks and respirators. Respirators are basically just filters and range from the hospital masks that you see doctors wear to those masks you see painters wear. There are even respirators that cover the entire face (eyes in addition to nose and mouth).

Gas masks contain an absorbent and desiccant-like substance combined with charcoal. This provides much greater protection than a respirator. There is a filter canister attached to the gas mask that usually lasts for only several hours. Gas masks run about $20 and in excess of $300 or $400.

Small pox is highly contagious and you are contagious even prior to showing symptoms. Both Small pox and anthrax are largely passed via particulates (small particles) hence respirators protect against them to some degree.

I am not sure if boiling water fights against biological threats. You would think it would. You can also get some iodine or do a Clorox treatment which is usually described right on the label. I don’t think it would be as effective against a chemical threat.

Any additions or corrections are welcome.

[Gomer]

A little clarification on inhaled anthrax spores (preferred method of inoculation):

Incubation: 1-6 DAYS
Symptoms: 1-3 days of flu like symptoms, followed by 1-72 hours of relief, followed by 24-36 hours of shock, edema, difficulty breathing, repiratory and cardiac failure, and death.

Luckily, however, anthrax is not very communicable, so there's no need to quarantine, although the spores remain viable on surfaces and in the soil for years.

[an2001on]

Would vaccination help? I read that we don't have enough and there's only one (!) US producer of anthrax vaccine. BTW, hope they are on the list of tighter security places.

I heard on NatlPublRadio an interview with Director of Mass. Water Supply. He admitted that there's no way they would detect a backpack dropped into the water on Saturday. On the lighter side, they closed it temporarily. And it seems like they found the "disoriented tourists" who flew the planes.

I also read the info that one of possible hijackers was training as a pilot of the crop dust plane and even tried to obtain the bank loan for a plane. It seems theoretically possible that before he crushed the plane on Sept.11 he already "dusted" some water supplies. I don't want to be too paranoid, though... I am thinking what reasonable measures people can and should take now.

[glenn]

News reports up in Canada yesterday were focused on some crop dusters who in the last year have had 'mid-eastern' people try and by their planes. One indicated that he didn't sell because he was suspicious when the potential purchaser was only interested in how much chemical the plane could carry, not in such things as the age of the plane or mechanical condition.

[OT]

Anyone know what happens if you get Anthrax spores in your eyes? Is it like breathing it (inhalational Anthrax) or the open skin Anthrax?

Got my two gas masks (M17 A2) and 8 filters. Chemical suit is in the mail. Chemical test paper should be available in two weeks.

[Aaron Brachowitz]

On 2001-09-29 20:01, OT wrote:
Got my two gas masks (M17 A2) and 8 filters. Chemical suit is in the mail. Chemical test paper should be available in two weeks.


Save your money. I was in the Army and we trained in chem/bio defense all the time. If you aren't trained, having a mask won't help you.

1) Are you going to carry it with you all the time? We did -- it gets old fast.
2) Do you have a protective oversuit, boots and gloves? Your skin can absorb chem/bio agents also.
3) Do you have replacement oversuits? They only last a few hours. And you have to know how to change suits without contaminating yourself.
4) Did you get the right size mask? Ours were fitted by experts. You got the hood, too, right?

The list goes on and on. I know the Israelis equip all their citizens with masks but I think that's just a psychological move.

[OT]

Thank you, Aaron Brachowitz, for your response. I have actually been trying to get in touch with someone with your expertise. I hope you don’t mind me badgering you.

1) Are you going to carry it with you all the time? We did -- it gets old fast.
We (my wife and I) were going to just scrap the whole idea after we learned that it is very hard to have full protection all the time especially with the incubation period for the bio and the frequent instant threat of the chemical. However, it seems like it can provide some protection in certain circumstances. I think we were going to keep it in our car and if anything happens use it to get out of the area. I heard that that even respirators with the P100 or N100 level (one criteria on the NIOSH list) filtration provides protection against inhalation Anthrax and Small Pox because these are spread by particulates. Even disposable $5 respirators come in P100 or N100 level protection which I plan to wear while driving (it will probably help with my allergies also). That is why I ask about getting Anthrax spores in your eyes. I am trying to find out if it would be more like inhalation Anthrax or open skin Anthrax, the former being much more virulent than the latter. I can see how this stuff could get real old real fast. You are basically in a air-tight plastic bag. I was sweating after only five minutes of just the mask and hood.


2) Do you have a protective oversuit, boots and gloves? Your skin can absorb chem/bio agents also. Yes, we have all of this and duct tape to, for example, seal the boots to the pants.

3) Do you have replacement oversuits? They only last a few hours. And you have to know how to change suits without contaminating yourself. We were considering extra oversuits but our original plan was to use it to just get out of the area. We got some things about decontamination but any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

4) Did you get the right size mask? Ours were fitted by experts. You got the hood, too, right? We were very concerned about the mask fit and was looking for the Canadian C4 which someone gave very good reviews for fit even with a beard (which I do not have). We opted not to get the Israeli M15 because I heard they are very stiff and tend not to fit well. A local safety equipment store told that if we cover the intake holes you should not be able to inhale which is the case for both of our masks even if we try really, really hard. Yup, got the hood. One of my concerns is also the filters which have a date of like 1983 to 1987 on the wrapping which seems to still be intact. They are, however, still sealed.

Anyone know about chemical paper? I saw some on the web for like $25. Also, is it true that sunlight kills Anthrax spores?