BtPotEC Ghost Forum: Suspect for Round 5 Lynching

[Leela]

I guess it's about time to start talking about our next chance.

[Rocky]

It may be time to suggest a "quiet type".

Examples:
Traina (has reason)
All Clear (I think is innocent, but very quiet)
RSF
Macroman
thing

there are others...

[4sigma]

It will be interesting to see who the students nominate this round. Hopefully they will tire of Gandalf and Sunny. I am optimistic that they may give us a better selection to choose from than they have in the past.

I would be quite willing to hit a quiet type. My favorites are still thing and Werewolf, and perhaps Kaput Shakur, though I am also empathetic towards the slayer's choices of Traina and Kenshiro.

I expect EC to hit Gandalf, Sunny, or EK this round.

[Leela]

. . . and see if the EC is taking the bait. If so, we should get somebody consistent with whatever our contigency plan is.

[Rocky]

Gandalf it is.

I'm not surprised that the EC thought that he was the slayer since we obviously protected him last round. In the same vein as my death, at least the EC wasted a turn (in trying to get the slayer) rather than the students trying to get the EC!

[Leela]

Avi was just about lynched without any input from us. I don't remember if the slayer said he was ok or not. But, we need a plan for this kind of situation. I think we should curb the bandwagon anytime someone gets half the votes needed for a lynching within a small period of time. If we don't do this consistently, the EC will we able to tell when we do it for the Slayer.

This brings up another question. Should we tell the students that we don't know the identity of the slayer, and therefore can't protect them when voting goes that quickly.

[Rocky]

:o

NO LEELA (HARRRRRR).

We can't let that info out, IMO. Especially not while KP's doing his part for the EC.

We do need to have a plan in place, though, for these high vote situations. Suggestions are better from that perspective, but I'm not sure if the students will go back to that.

Do we have an OK from the slayer for AVI?

[Leela]

I don't really want to tell the students that we don't know who the slayer is. Hopefully, the posts from me and snafu will click with the remaining students.

But KP did give the EC two names for the slayer which tells them that we aren't sure who the slayer is. Of course, neither of those names was Avi.

[snafu]

I show Avi as NOT being the slayer.

I say let them go.

[Rocky]

I show Avi as NOT being the slayer.

I say let them go.

I know, they have to learn on their own. But, it's so hard letting go...

[4sigma]

Easy come easy go - will you let me go
Bismillah! No - we will not let you go - let him go
Bismillah! We will not let you go - let him go
Bismillah! We will not let you go - let me go
Will not let you go - let me go (never)
Never let you go - let me go
Never let me go - ooo
No, no, no, no, no, no, no -
Oh mama mia, mama mia, mama mia let me go

[Gandalf]

It's all 4Sigma's fault! (My perhaps slowing the process, not my earlier goofs.) I asked him if I could post something humorous, not planning anything of substance, and he responded that we wanted more ghost credibility.

Anyway, I'm on board and under better control now. DEATH TO THE EC!

[4sigma]

mea culpa. Welcome aboard, wizard.

[snafu]

Are we having fun yet!!!

[Rocky]

Queen (for 4sigma)

Nickelback (for Snafu)

who's next? step right up and try to stump the guy who knows a lot about songs/artists...

[snafu]

Ok, here is one that I do NOT know the answer to and is driving me crazy

Semi-satirical country and western song about writing the perfect country and western song. Involves trains, picking up mama from prison, dog dying, wife leaving

[Leela]

David Allen Coe

But there is no dog dying or wife leaving.

It's trains, trucks, mama, prison, getting drunk.

[Leela]

Rocky,

Did you figure out the Nickelback lyrics on your own? I had to read them in the CD jacket to figure out what they were saying.

[Rocky]

David Allen Coe

But there is no dog dying or wife leaving.

It's trains, trucks, mama, prison, getting drunk.

His wife did dye her hair, though...and the dog was left-pawed, if that helps...

[Leela]

David Allen Coe

But there is no dog dying or wife leaving.

It's trains, trucks, mama, prison, getting drunk.

His wife did dye her hair, though...and the dog was left-pawed, if that helps...

I don't think you're talking about the same song.

snafu, you're thinking of "You've Never Even Called Me by My Name", right?

[snafu]

David Allen Coe

But there is no dog dying or wife leaving.

It's trains, trucks, mama, prison, getting drunk.

His wife did dye her hair, though...and the dog was left-pawed, if that helps...

I don't think you're talking about the same song.

snafu, you're thinking of "You've Never Even Called Me by My Name", right?

Yes, that's it. But I could have sworn there was something about his dog in it too. Oh well. "You've Never..." is the right song. In particular I was after the voiceover and additional verse part.

[Rocky]

David Allen Coe

But there is no dog dying or wife leaving.

It's trains, trucks, mama, prison, getting drunk.

His wife did dye her hair, though...and the dog was left-pawed, if that helps...

I don't think you're talking about the same song.

snafu, you're thinking of "You've Never Even Called Me by My Name", right?

Lighten up, dead chick...it's a joke... :wink:

[Leela]

Lighten up, dead chick...it's a joke... :wink:

But you didn't include an emoticon which is the telltale sign of a joke around here. :wink:


With that, we should probably get back on track since the students want to hurry this along.

[4sigma]

Well, I'm not fond particularly of lynching Avi or EK. I don't think Avi is EC2, because of his PM to the slayer saying to be careful if they are Mulan, not to give away their identity. Btw, does anyone know if the post he is referring to was made by the current slayer or the former one?

Also I don't think EK is EC2 either. He was a much better fit for the EC1 profile.

I think we are welcome to go out on a limb here and name whoever we want at the moment, since the reasons for Avi are clearly tenuous and I doubt EK will object if we fail to name him.

I think we should choose from whoever we think are our favorites to be EC2. My short list includes Werewolf, thing, Kenshiro, and perhaps Traina. Werewolf has a bold vote last I knew, and I believe thing has a "suggest" vote from someone.

[Leela]

EK has voted for thing twice already this round. What would he do if we suggested the person he voted for?

[4sigma]

EK has voted for thing twice already this round. What would he do if we suggested the person he voted for?

I'm really tempted to find out. Probably it would make EC decide he's too dangerous to be allowed to continue living. :rofl:

[snafu]

Avi's post was after the slayer switch.

[snafu]

I would suggest that pending slayer confirmation we post something like

While the ghosts have considered the information for and against Avi we are not yet convinced. Although EK has a certain EC-ish charm to him, we are too afraid that he might be an innocent student and we would have to deal with him as a ghost. The candidate that the ghosts find most suspicious is thing.

[Rocky]

Rocky,

Did you figure out the Nickelback lyrics on your own? I had to read them in the CD jacket to figure out what they were saying.

I'm OCD about music. I'll listen to songs over and over when they first hook me. It took me a little while to figure out the "these 5 words in my head" part of this song.

It's funny how, with some songs, you can listen to them for years and not really have all of the lyrics right. I was listening to a Counting Crows song, that I first listened to about 5 years ago, this past weekend and heard a lyric that I'd heard at least 300 times before. Only this time, it was perfectly clear what he was singing.

[Gandalf]

There's still way too much info for me to digest. Werewolf seems fine to me: no reason to suspect innocence, and the "fear and ignorance" would be an extremely obscure frame, and a rather unlikely coincidence if not a frame.

I am ok with thing, but the "2P" angle seems more likely to be coincidence than "fear and ignorance" would be.

[Rocky]

I have Werewolf slightly behind Avi on my EC suspect list (Avi is 4 and Werewolf is 4.5). Thing is a little further down at 8.5.

My suggestions are Werewolf and Avi, either is fine with me.

[Tim><]

Thing Thing Thing Thing - oops didn't mean to post here - I doubt anyone noticed :oops:

[Rocky]

You severely misunderstimate my loathing towards you for winning a stapler off my demise the last game. I meant what I said when you would be the first person to go if I were EC. Unfortunately, Mr. P requires that both EC agree on the killings, and my pragmatic partner would not allow us to whack you. If only I'd been teamed up with Jables again. Or teamed up with you. Then I could have betrayed you to the students and been able to work with the sleeper.

FWIW, he's protecting Jables and Avi from suspicion here. No need to protect Jables...Avi on the other hand...

[Gandalf]

I still see lots of reasons to think Avi is not EC2. He posted that EC1 and EC2 should keep quiet. Would an EC have done that?

Would the EC have tried to frame him? Would it have occurred to them to try a sloppy frame?

He told Mr. P he would be away from the game; Mr. P posted it; I told Mr. P he really shouldn't have and he withdrew it. I told Avi and he reported it to the ghosts. Some rather unlikely actions if he is EC, I think. My guess is that even if Avi had explicitly asked Mr. P to post that he was away, Mr. P's reaction (especially to such a request from EC) would be "post it yourself; don't get me involved." OTOH, Mr. P would have been more likely to do it on his own volition for an innocent student (certainly not on his own volition for EC). Not because Mr. P would be taking sides, but because Mr. P would see it as trivial if not involving an EC.

If we're trying to make the call as opposed to listen to the students, I think we can do better.

[Gandalf]

I could much more easily buy Avi as the sleeper than as EC2. I thought the strategy was to focus on original EC.

The sloppy frame up makes more sense if a truly innocent Avi is available to defend himself. Not a lot of sense to me still, but more sense. Actions to protect Avi are as relevant to sleeper as to original EC, and of course Avi's actions that make me think he is innocent say he is not EC2.

[4sigma]

Before we can nominate thing, we need to ensure that thing isn't the slayer.

I agree that we should be concentrating on EC2. We have no idea who is the sleeper, except that it's not the current or former slayer.

[4sigma]

A thought -- suppose the ghosts publicly post:

We think EC2 shows indications of frequenting political due to the posts about "fear and ignorance" and "yous guys", which are terms used in that forum, but rarely elsewhere.

Also we have conclusive evidence that EC2 was in contact with the forum over Memorial Day weekend.

Note that the slayer may or may not also fit these criteria. Please do check with us before irrevocably lynching anyone. Later this weekend we plan to provide two nominees to choose from.

[Gandalf]

Too early for that, IMO. We don't need to get EC2 this round, and it might drive him deeper underground.

[4sigma]

Too early for that, IMO. We don't need to get EC2 this round, and it might drive him deeper underground.

EC2 = the mole? :-?

[snafu]

Too early for that, IMO. We don't need to get EC2 this round, and it might drive him deeper underground.

I agree, let's save that for a feww rounds later.

[Gandalf]

EC2 = the mole? :-?
Cho Da and Mulan at least know the mole password, maybe some other players as well, as does urysohn. I think there was one mole post in the game thread I didn't make, but I might have just forgotten. :duh:

What is this CubedBee can't win thing? Do we think he's really as dumb as EC1? All EC win if the EC team wins. It won't happen, but theoretically it could.

[4sigma]

EC "wins" but only one EC wins the stapler. Unlike dead students who can still win the stapler, CubedBee can no longer win it. He is playing for team pride at this point, assuming that outweighs his motivation for revenge against Avi.

[snafu]

I'm really not sure what to do about CubedBee's accusation that Avi is EC sleeper. As a ghost, I don't want to be ruling on this one.

I think we should post that the ghosts are not sure about the merits of this accusation and since it was made in public will let the students vote on it. If Avi is lynched by end of business friday - so be it. If Avi is still alive by the end of business friday then the ghosts will make a suggestion for someone other than Avi.

[4sigma]

The merits of protecting Avi is that EC will almost surely hit him next time. Since he's not the slayer, this protects our slayer for another round.

It actually would be a really good strategy for the students to get a bandwagon going every round for someone who's not the slayer, and then have the ghosts step in to protect them. That way EC keeps using up their attacks on non-slayers.

[Gandalf]

I'm more concerned that I can't follow Avi's reasoning on defense. OTOH, the last person whose defense was incomprehensible was merely an innocent student lying through his teeth.

Surely you don't think there is even one chance in a million that B^3 would be trying to get the sleeper lynched, even if it is Avi.

Maybe it's as high as 10% that Avi is the sleeper and this is designed to make us think he isn't. But I doubt it. Our plan is to get EC2, then if necessary worry about the sleeper.

Why Avi thinks the EC will get him next is beyond me, but having the noose nearing your neck brings out strange reactions.

[4sigma]

I think he is saying that if the ghosts protect him, that makes him a high-quality EC target.

With the number of votes he currently has, he is likely to get lynched if the ghosts do not protect him.

[Gandalf]

But now we have a demonstrated precedent for protecting a non-slayer. Avi seems less certain than I was (maybe not should have been) that the ghosts will protect him. If they have reason to suspect someone else, I think they will not hit Avi.

[Leela]

That's true Gandalf. But I think this is a strategy we want to continue to use. Unless we strongly believe the top vote-getter is EC, I think we shouldn't recommend them. The EC may continue to hit a protected high vote-getter for a round or 2, but eventually, they will figure out that we're not protecting the slayer with the method. This will help if the slayer is ever the top vote-getter.

[Gandalf]

I think they will already have figured it out. I agree with not giving them the highest vote getter even if we have only mild desire to protect that person, so that it better hides the slayer should the need arise. I will be surprised if they hit Avi.

[snafu]

4Sigma - we really need to check with the slayer regarding thing

I like your strategy of stepping in to save Avi and seeing if the EC buys it for one more round. Even if they don't it would provide good cover for us protecting the slayer in later rounds.

I say step in to save Avi. Suggest thing or Maine-iac. If the EC doesn't kill Avi next round and we start running low on candidates then have the slayer stake him in a round or two.

[Leela]

So, I've been looking at cubedbee's voting history, and one person stands out with a very similar voting pattern. And that person is .... Sunny.

cubedbee - 4sigma / Oblomov - Gandalf / snafu - Will Durant / Mulan / karma police - Avi / Gandalf / Cho Da

Sunny - Mulan / karma police / 4sigma / Oblomov - Gandalf / snafu - Will Durant / Mulan / karma police - Avi / Sunny / Gandalf / Will Durant / Cho Da

Now, I don't know if this means anything. But another thing I found suspicious about Sunny is when she said her mother was in the hospital dying. She didn't mention it in any other thread, and it seemed very convenient that she could take time to read the rules since she had to visit her mother. Then, this Egypt trip came up.

[4sigma]

4Sigma - we really need to check with the slayer regarding thing

I like your strategy of stepping in to save Avi and seeing if the EC buys it for one more round. Even if they don't it would provide good cover for us protecting the slayer in later rounds.

I say step in to save Avi. Suggest thing or Maine-iac. If the EC doesn't kill Avi next round and we start running low on candidates then have the slayer stake him in a round or two.How about we just make a public posting at this point saying that we're not fond of lynching Avi -- we have evidence that at the moment suggests he is not EC2, and would everyone who has voted for him please vote for someone else. And that we are hoping they won't bandwagon, but will give us a set of people to select from.

[snafu]

I guess I'm good with that. But at some point we have to make a suggestion to the crowd. And if we wait until over the weekend or until Monday then we are just asking for the students (EK) to give us a hard time. Also, you would be agreeing with EK?!?

[4sigma]

Hey, I'm perfectly willing to bury the hatchet, either with EK or in him. It seemed in EK's last post, however, that he was suggesting CubedBee's rant somehow was consistent with Avi being EC2.

[snafu]

Looks like thing is volunteering to get lynched in order to protect Avi.

WTF?!?

[4sigma]

This actually raises my suspicions of thing at the moment. I don't find his logic at all compelling. Avi the slayer? If he were, he would have been appealing to us as Gandalf did, not making a public kerfluffle.

Under the circumstances, I think there is virtually zero chance of anyone taking thing up on his offer. And he knows that the ghosts are planning to provide names. If we don't name him, he can point back to his offer as "proof" of his innocence. Especially now that the sleeper is activated.

EC's chances of winning this game right now are about 20%. What are the chances of thing getting lynched from his offer? Certainly not as high as 80%. There would be at least a 20% chance that he would live and then would have "proof" that he is not EC.

Regarding the parallels in the voting patterns of Sunny and CubedBee, I think that Sunny simply decided to trust CubedBee as not being EC, and followed along all his suggestions. In any event, I think it's clear that she is fairly suggestible.

[Gandalf]

I just don't see a scenario in which Avi isn't lynched and also survives the next round. If we don't lynch him, and subsequently the EC spares him, B³ will be all over the place about how he told us so.I do see that scenario, but that's somewhat beside the point. I think thing is saying that if we spare Avi this round and the EC doesn't hit him, we'll have to lynch him next because the pressure from B³ will be too great? Are we going to let an exposed EC1 push us around? If we spare Avi this round we should be able to spare him until we get a second EC, or at least for several more rounds.

If we don't name him, he can point back to his offer as "proof" of his innocence.He can point back to it, but we ghosts won't buy it. I don't think he'll even be able to make a credible case that implied we thought he was innocent. After all, if we were to step in to name him, that suggests we are protecting Avi, the very thing he says he's trying to prevent. His offer is highly suspicious, in my opinion. Maybe the students will realize it.

[Rocky]

4Sigma - we really need to check with the slayer regarding thing

I like your strategy of stepping in to save Avi and seeing if the EC buys it for one more round. Even if they don't it would provide good cover for us protecting the slayer in later rounds.

I say step in to save Avi. Suggest thing or Maine-iac. If the EC doesn't kill Avi next round and we start running low on candidates then have the slayer stake him in a round or two.

I agree that we need to pass on Avi this round.

Thing, I just don't get what he's up to here. I still think that werewolf's a more likely candidate for EC than thing. Obviously, KP does not agree with that. He's sold on thing = the waiting hurts.

IMO, thing or werewolf are our main choices. But, outing our reasons for werewolf will give a lot of info on EC2.

[Leela]

I like thing and werewolf too. I wonder if there's a way we could get the slayer to bring up werewolf's name. Of course, we would then know who the slayer is, which I think we need to find out soon.

[Gandalf]

Thing, I just don't get what he's up to here. I still think that werewolf's a more likely candidate for EC than thing. Obviously, KP does not agree with that. He's sold on thing = the waiting hurts.

I've missed that. I saw the "2P" match. Is there anything else to suggest thing = the waiting hurts? It surprises me. I thought TWH was female (I could be wrong), and thing is male (definitely).

[Gandalf]

thing = twh is impossible. twh's first post, back in Nov 2003, was in Careers and claims twh had no exams (took an exam in Nov). Thing was taking course 5 in May 2004 (and had been in the Course 3 and 4 areas in prior sessions I recall. I didn't bother to verify exactly when he took 3 and 4).

twh has very few posts in Exams, but he or she asked about course 2 study material in Feb 2004.

[4sigma]

For the record, I have met thing IRL. It was at an APC in August or September 2004. There is no doubt that he has passed several exams, and is male.

[4sigma]

This just in from KP:
Axe Sunny
Just curious, what is your reasoning for this? Is this due to her voting pattern with CubedBee?I thought it was really compelling. However, after all she has done, do we have any reason not to kill Sunny? I mean, it isn't as though she has been a great help to us living.

[4sigma]

I got a PM from the slayer. We have OK to hit thing, werewolf, EK, Sunny, and Avi. There are a couple more that are OK -- the ones OK'd from previous rounds, but so far they haven't been suggested for serious consideration this round. If we want to consider anyone else, let me or Leela know and we can suggest their guilt via the "real estate" code and see what the Slayer says.

In the meantime, I think we may want to try and get nominees posted today. I've started to compile a list of reasons for/against each of the above people, in preparation for a public suggestion. Note that we may wish to not post every single one of our reasons, to avoid tipping off EC. But we should start by listing out all the reasons we have, and then we can leave out any that we think are better kept private.

I would once again like to urge everyone to post a list of their reasons for or against the innocence of all remaining students in the SUMMARY thread. This is the reference I used in coming up with the information below. In the meantime, feel free to add any reasons you feel I've left out.

thing:

Reasons to lynch:
1) We find his offer to be lynched suspicious.
2) Even if he's not "Waiting Hurts", he does hang out in political and is among those who would use the phrases EC2 has used.

Reasons not to lynch:
1) Gandalf's observation that he seemed "not EC-like" in his use of EC game terms in the Dictionary thread.
2) No evidence that he was active over Memorial Day weekend.

Werewolf:

Reasons to lynch:
1) Hangs out in political. Is among those who would be familiar with "fear and ignorance" and "yous guys."
2) Fits the posting pattern for EC2. Active on Memorial Day weekend.
3) Familiar with the game "Paranoia", the original source of the "fear and ignorance" quote, as evidenced in the "other than cards and dice" thread.
4) A quiet type.

Reasons not to lynch:
[anyone know of any?]

EK

Reasons to lynch:
1) Very anti-ghost. Is instead advocating a strategy that helps EC.
2) While this is not exactly evidence of guilt, if it is true that he can read the ghost forum, this makes him a more dangerous EC than other players, so this should be ruled out.

Reasons not to lynch:
1) If EC can read the ghost forum, they could have been using this information to try and hit the slayer. And indeed they should have been. But they haven't been. So if EK can read the ghost forum, then he isn't using the info as much as he could.
2) If he's not EC, it doesn't look like we'll get a cooperative ghost.
3) CAS student. Unlikely to have chosen the SOA logo.
4) No evidence that he was active over Memorial Day weekend. If he had logged in as EC2, could he have resisted posting something as EK?

Sunny

Reasons to lynch: These are fairly widely known. Her typo. Her chat with EC1. Most recent evidence includes the parallel voting paterns with CubedBee.

Reasons not to lynch:
1) Seems improbable that she made the posts about "fear and ignorance" and "yous guys." As Gandalf puts it, "is too goofy and carefree to be EC."
2) Is a likely EC target if she is not EC, since the ghosts have protected her a couple of times.
3) Her PMs back and forth with CubedBee. Possibly contrived, but these would be unnecessary if they were both EC.
4) No evidence that she was active over Memorial Day weekend. Could she have logged in as EC2 but not made any posts as Sunny?

Avi
Reasons to lynch:
1) Squelched Gandalf's early attempts to goad EC into being more vocal.
2) A lot of students have voted for him.
3) CubedBee says he is EC.
4) J.T.'s reef thread theory.

Reasons not to lynch:
1) EC seems to have tried to frame him with the :burn: and the quotes such as "witless prattle."
2) His warning PM to the slayer to be careful not to divulge their identity.
3) If he is not EC, EC may well kill him if we appear to protect him.
4) If he were really EC, would CubedBee say so? Yeah, right....
5) Seems to think Mulan is the slayer. Could have hit Mulan last round but didn't.
6) No evidence that he was active over Memorial Day weekend. If he were on as EC2, could he have resisted posting as Avi?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My inclination at the moment is to nominate Werewolf and thing, though I could also see Sunny. I think thing and/or Werewolf is the better choice since EC may hit Sunny for us if she is not EC. Plus I am more inclined to think Sunny is innocent than either thing or Werewolf.

[snafu]

If we are going completely off the list of voted students then I like Werewolf with reasons 2-4 given and the political connection held back.

[Gandalf]

Does anyone know if werewolf is male? The avatar seems feminine to me: pink background, non-aggressive wolf. NTTAWW an avatar that's not macho.

Maybe we should address the political connection? Do we gain by keeping it secret? Does the fact that we're suspicious of political but not suggesting Will increase the EC's belief he is the slayer?

The political connection is one of our concerns about thing. Would we not mention it for him, either?

[Gandalf]

I am under the distinct impression that Werewolf is female. I am not sure why, though.

[Gandalf]

Re: thing not active over Memorial Day weekend.

Thing posts very rarely on weekends, but apparently can connect. One post May 23; 2 posts May 9; 1 post May 2.

There's this comment about Memorial Day weekend:
http://actuary.ca/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=550872&amp;highlight=#550872

Also, put me in the not-deliberately quiet camp, but I will be out of the office from Friday 5/28-Monday 5/31. Of course, almost everyone will be out of the office on 5/31. Friday is house-inspection day, wherein I get to pay several hundred dollars for the possibility of exhibiting buyer's remorse and backing out of the deal. All of which, you understand, implies a certain inability to closely follow what's happening here for at least this week and probably big chunks of next week.

He hasn't posted on a weekend since May 23. Maybe his home internet access situation has changed in the new house. I didn't look at the times of his posts to determine if he posts in the evenings, which would suggest he still has access. I didn't have time to figure out when he closed on the new house (thereby losing internet access from the old one.)

All this suggests:
1. He probably could have gotten to the RF on Memorial Day weekend.
2. He was busy, so maybe he would have checked PMs but not posted.
3. But, on the other side, he was busy, so maybe he wouldn't even have checked PMs.

[Rocky]

I'd vote for Werewolf and Sunny being put out there.

For Werewolf, I would not divulge the political link but note that posted messages from EC2 are consistent with past posts from Werewolf in other forums/threads.

For Sunny, the post about her ill mother (which, I believe was probably true but was never followed up on) and her trip to Egypt that people who "know" her had not heard about are also concerning. I don't think that we should specifically post these references, but may want to wordsmith a general idea of her posting strange things. Since he knows her IRL, I'm going to follow up with KP about this.

For Gandalf and 4sigma, 2 staunch supporters of Sunny's innocence (who may well be right), look at her objectively and see if she looks less innocent from that perspective. She may not, but she just may...

[Leela]

Right now, thing is in a three-way tie for 2nd place in the voting. So, we could get by with giving fewer reasons for him by saying he was one of the top 2 vote-getters.



Here's another connection to cubedbee which is most likely coincidence...

Late Tuesday afternoon/evening Jables announced in the 2pac Broke the RF thread that his internet problems at work had been solved. Then, cubedbee posted his death scene on Wednesday morning. Is this a coincidence? Or did cubedbee tell his EC partner Jables that the Slayer had killed him and he was going to post a death scene in the morning, and Jables wanted to take on a more outspoken role as EC? It probably was a coincidence.

[Gandalf]

I agree with checking with KP about whether there could be any basis about her mother and her Egypt trip. But otherwise:
1. We're envisioning a cautious EC2 who reined B^3 in. Does Sunny fit?
2. Sunny seems like such a loose cannon. Would she not have done something far worse than saying "Death to the Students"? (Just late yesterday afternoon, in the ghost forum, I wrote "protecting the sleeper". I had turned off my computer and was about to walk out the door, when I realized "I wrote sleeper." :duh: I restarted the computer and edited it, before anyone else had posted.)
3. Her posting pattern matching B^3's is an indication of the influence he had over her. In most cases, there seems to be no benefit from the matching pattern.
4. I felt no urgency from Sunny or B^3 to lynch me. Sunny tried, but would have done more if an EC head were on the block as an alternative.
5. If I recall correctly, she gave Macroman her proxy for the lynching where she and I were both at risk (before ghosts nominated anyone), even though Macroman had already come out voting for Cho Da. I don't think she would have feared he would vote her proxy to lynch her if she were one of two ghost nominees, but she wouldn't have given up that control when Macroman could still influence the ghosts. (Edited to confirm: yes she did, and he immediately voted it for Cho Da. Probably in conformance with her PMed instructions.)

If we offer her up, we don't mention her mother, even if KP has never heard of the sick mother situation.

[Leela]

I think we should suggest Werewolf and thing before end of business today. Thing is up to 4 votes now, and holds 2nd place on his own.

[snafu]

Given the current voting I think we should suggest thing (as he is in second place)

I then think we should suggest werewolf to the slayer. As a general strategy I think the slayer should concentrate on players not getting votes and the students / ghosts should focus on players getting votes.

[Rocky]

I was asked not to post his PM re: Sunny.

He said that I could paraphrase, so...Basically, he doesn't know her that well IRL. He did mention to me that in other threads/chats she mentioned her mother's health, and that seems very legitimate. As for the trip to Egypt...that was a surprise.

I would agree to thing and either Sunny or Werewolf. But, we need to put out a recommendation by noon ET, IMO.

[Leela]

Do you think we should just suggest one name then?


Also, the slayer has a few more people on his list that he thinks are suspicious. Since he was right about cubedbee, maybe we should let him make his own decisions for a little while.

*Male gender references are intended to be neutral. I get tired of typing his/her and he/she. Since it's grammatically correc to use male pronouns when you aren't sure of the gender, that is what I use.

[Rocky]

Do you think we should just suggest one name then?


Also, the slayer has a few more people on his list that he thinks are suspicious. Since he was right about cubedbee, maybe we should let him make his own decisions for a little while.

I still advocate suggesting 2 names.

I think that we should make suggestions that we feel strongly about to the slayer but tell him/her that it's his/her choice.

[Gandalf]

If not werewolf: thing and Sunny. Give the EC only one new name. We can say we find thing's offer very odd; hopefully the students will take us up on it.

EC will probably hit Avi, but at least he's not our slayer.

Agreeing with Leela, suggest Werewolf to slayer but it's slayer's call.

[snafu]

If we go with suggesting 2 names I think we should post something like "The ghosts suggest either thing or werewolf based on similarities between their posting times and styles and that of EC2"

[Gandalf]

Definitely two names. Give students a choice. or they may do something rash and lynch our slayer next time.

[Rocky]

Sunny has been laying pretty low lately even though she surpassed her 3333 post limit. Could she be the sleeper? She's stated (and I tend to believe) that she has a hard time lying. What's the best way for her to avoid lying if she's now an activated EC? Avoid posting.

I hope that it doesn't sound like I'm on a mission against Sunny, I just have kept a mental catalog of her since the initial mistake posting.

[Leela]

She could be. This is probably a good time to remind ourselves that we can't be sure of anyone's innocence anymore (besides the slayer and former slayer). And we should keep an eye out for changes is anyone's posting pattern.

[Gandalf]

We said we would worry about EC2 first, then a sleeper if relevant.

But OK to suggest Sunny; hitting the sleeper would be a wonderful surprise.

[Rocky]

Will everyone please confirm if they are OK with my suggesting Sunny/Thing for lynching ASAP?

[Rocky]

The following is based on somee solid research work from 4sigma.

Along with a suggestion of Thing and Sunny, I'd summarize our reasons as follows (feel free to quote and add/remove words and reasons).


thing:

Reasons to lynch:
1) We find his offer to be lynched suspicious.
2) His posts in other threads suggest that he would use phrases like EC2 has used.

Sunny

Reasons to lynch: Her "Death to the students" typo. Her chat with EC1. Parallel voting paterns with CubedBee. Distinct drop in posting frequency since CubedBee was slayed.

[Leela]

I can live with those two choices. I would like to hear 4sigma's opinion before we post it. He should be checking in anytime now.


If we do suggest Sunny, we may not want to mention the decline in posting because she said she wouldn't be posting as much before we lynched Cho Da. I think it's slightly suspicious, but it's something that could be very easily explained by her.

[Leela]

Sunny won't tell me the date of her departure for Egypt. Very very very very suspicious.


Sunny: Egypt adn Greece
karma police: How are you getting to Egypt?
Sunny: Jfk-Cairo-Athens-Cairo-JFK
karma police: Direct flight?
Msg: cavey joined chat on Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:58 am
cavey: .
karma police: Which airline?
Sunny: also some boat in the mediterranean I suppose
Sunny: to the Greek Isles
Sunny: Egypt Air
cavey: bring back some hash if you can
Sunny: in case it gets hijacked, you can pray for me
karma police: when do you leave?
Sunny: I'll bring some Red Sea water
Sunny: to dump over your head cavey
Sunny: sometime
karma police: What date do you leave
Sunny: soon karma
Sunny: soon enough
Sunny:
karma police: When??
Sunny: (I'm not even at work today)
Sunny: not telling
Msg: Reaper Temp Agency has joined chat on Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:59 am
cavey: hey KP...ch-check this out
cavey: "not telling" = "not actually going"
cavey: wh-what's it all about?
cavey: ch-check it out
Sunny:
cavey: work this- work this party out


I'm going to tell her that I have to leave chat since she is now talking about the game.


I posted this in the pm thread too.

[snafu]

The following is based on somee solid research work from 4sigma.

Along with a suggestion of Thing and Sunny, I'd summarize our reasons as follows (feel free to quote and add/remove words and reasons).


thing:

Reasons to lynch:
1) We find his offer to be lynched suspicious.
2) His posts in other threads suggest that he would use phrases like EC2 has used.

Sunny

Reasons to lynch: Her "Death to the students" typo. Her chat with EC1. Parallel voting paterns with CubedBee. Distinct drop in posting frequency since CubedBee was slayed.

Not my first choices (I would have prefered thing and werewolf) but I can go with this as a pretty solid suggestion.

[Rocky]

Should there be any concerns about suggesting Sunny 2 rounds in a row? I think that it almost assures Sunny's demise.

NTTAWWT :D

[Leela]

I was wondering about that too. But we have better reasons to suggest her this round than we did last round. Plus, if she's really going to be gone soon, she won't be much help the students if she is innocent.

[Rocky]

AFTER RESEARCHING EGYPTAIR'S WEBSITE, I THINK THAT HE IS INCORRECT IN HIS PM BELOW. PLEASE DISREGARD AS EVIDENCE.


This is also posted in the PM thread...

I caught Sunny in a lie. Post this near my previous PMs. Based on expedia.com, EgyptAir doesn't fly directly from JFK to Cairo!

I still don't see how this benefits her, but it's weird nonetheless...

Also, from the chat above, Sunny doesn't explicitly state that she's flying direct.

[Gandalf]

thing &amp; Sunny fine with me

[4sigma]

Hello all -- sorry I didn't check in sooner. I tried to make my thoughts clear in my last post on page 3. I'm fine with any of thing, werewolf, and Sunny, though I do think it is not good form to recommend Sunny 2 rounds in a row.

For the record, Sunny told me that she is visiting Greece and Egypt. I think she is in Greece from about July 1-7 and Egypt the following week but I could be wrong.

Rocky, it's fine with me if you go ahead and post the nominees.

[Leela]

So, where does this all leave us on nominees?

I think we all agree on thing. Then we have to decide between werewolf and Sunny.

Werewolf is probably more likely to be EC, but do we want to give the EC another name to cross of the could be Slayer list? Do we really want to nominate Sunny 2 rounds in a row, especially if we believe she is most likely not EC2? And why does Mulan have a deathwish? (I know that last question is kind of off base, but I've been wondering for awhile.)

[4sigma]

perhaps we should just nominate thing this round?

[snafu]

So, where does this all leave us on nominees?

I think we all agree on thing. Then we have to decide between werewolf and Sunny.

Werewolf is probably more likely to be EC, but do we want to give the EC another name to cross of the could be Slayer list? Do we really want to nominate Sunny 2 rounds in a row, especially if we believe she is most likely not EC2? And why does Mulan have a deathwish? (I know that last question is kind of off base, but I've been wondering for awhile.)

werewolf is more likely. I don't think it is too much of a problem giving the EC another name to cross off (although I would prefer a single name nomination).

Mulan is getting bored.

[snafu]

perhaps we should just nominate thing this round? Second the nomination. All in favor!!!

4Sigma, snafu in favor so far

[4sigma]

How many names have we given EC to cross off? I think so far the only living student we've given them Sunny.

My first choice is to nominate thing & werewolf, though werewolf currently has no votes. 2nd choice is thing alone. 3rd choice is thing & Sunny. Any of these are decent options

[Leela]

That's fine. We can always say we were just trying to please EK. :wink:

He wants us to just nominate one name from the top 2 vote-getters, and he did vote for thing.

I'd kind of like to see how he reacts if thing is innocent. We could just blame him for a change. :)

[4sigma]

If we nominate only thing, we can quote his tortuous logic and claim that we agree with it. ;)

(edited to add the smiley just in case my humor was unclear.)

[4sigma]

So should we make a simple nomination, or is it OK if I dress it up as following the sage wisdom of EK and the compelling logic of thing? I think EK would find it particularly refreshing if I post something that praises his contribution.

[Rocky]

I still prefer 2 choices. However, for this round, I will back offering up only thing if it will speed the process up.

Really, we do need to streamline the ghostly discussions a bit. I'm considering ways of doing this, but don't have anything concrete to propose.

4sigma, will you accept the honor of posting the recommendation SOON?

[Gandalf]

I too am OK with just thing, now tied for top student spot. Thank EK now; blame him if it is wrong.

[snafu]

How many names have we given EC to cross off? I think so far the only living student we've given them Sunny.

My first choice is to nominate thing &amp; werewolf, though werewolf currently has no votes. 2nd choice is thing alone. 3rd choice is thing &amp; Sunny. Any of these are decent options

Point of order. Motion on the table. :D

You wanna nominate thing or not.

[snafu]

Currently in favor of giving up thing

snafu
4Sigma
Rocky - with hesitation
Gandalf

snafu want kill someone
time for calm discuss passing
time for blood now
Kill
Kill
Kill
Kill
Kill

[4sigma]

Yes, I want to nominate thing. I have a lunch appt. that I have to run to now, though. I think Leela is putting some language together.

To the extent that our announcement indicates my strong agreement with EK this round, I think that will be of good entertainment value.

[Leela]

I think we do want to nominate just thing this round. Now we have to work on the wording.

I was thinking some like this ...

We are impressed with thing's logic this round and the fact that he would volunteer himself to be lynched. Therefore, we will not stand in the way of thing's lynching.

4sigma told me he wants to include something about following EK's advice, and he is going to lunch now. So, he'll be out for a bit. Any suggestions on how to add in something about EK?

[snafu]

Oooh
Oooh
Me, me, me

I want to post the message

Can I, please please please

[snafu]

And now for a coded message from the Ghost Committee

You see the thing is, as a committee it is particularly difficult to reach a decision.

Particularly when such a decision happens to agree with the current position of EK.

'Cause the thing is that what if we are all wrong. Will EK still be able to blame the ghosts with a straight face when we agreed with him? What a thing of beauty that would be.

[Gandalf]

I nominate snafu for the message. Thing alone is suggested. Wording completely up to him, except: remind them that if they hit anyone except thing or Sunny, they may be offing our slayer. That reminder could be in a separate post.

[edited: snafu's proposal is great. But someone step in if they stray away from thing or Sunny]

[snafu]

And for the less than perceptive

Hi ho, hi ho
It's off to lynch we go
Everyone get thing!!!

[snafu]

And for the serious followup

The ghost committee has some concerns with thing due to similarities in posting content / time between thing and EC2. We also find his volunteering to be lynched in place of Avi as most likely an EC-ish attempt to claim innocence at later stages in the game.

While the student can do as they wish, we would like to remind them that any choice other than thing has the potential to be slayer limiting in future round.

[Rocky]

And for the less than perceptive

Hi ho, hi ho
It's off to lynch we go
Everyone get thing!!!

Methinks that 4sigma just lost his "suggestion" job! :tup:

[snafu]

With two nominations, I'ma gonna get me some thing

I'm going in for the kill now.

[Gandalf]

"other than thing or Sunny".

No one would believe you protected me last round at the risk of losing the slayer.

[snafu]

Howuzat?

Can you tell that I had a four beer lunch?

[Leela]

Good job snafu!

Maybe we can take the weekend off now.

Woohooo!!!

[snafu]

I still think we need to post to slayer that we think werewolf is a good candidate but am also perfectly fine with just letting the slayer hit whomever they want. What the heck, they're batting average is better than ours.

[Gandalf]

I'm not sure what our slayer knows or would check. For example, is there any danger that Asynch would get staked?

Suppose thing is EC. Would we still want to suggest werewolf?

[4sigma]

snafu,

Great job with the nomination! A classic.

[4sigma]

For the record, I don't want the slayer to hit Werewolf, since that will cost me a stapler. The slayer has said that they will probably hit Butters this round unless we have a strong objection.

[snafu]

Just trying to have fun. And it looks like everyone but CubedBee is having fun. And B^3 is just miffed because he is pining for Gandalf NTTAWWT

[Gandalf]

I think Butters is not EC, but am not nearly sure enough to overrule the slayer who staked cubedbee.

[Rocky]

I think that we should send Werewolf and Sunny to the slayer as being strong considerations and Asynch as being very low likelihood. But, use your slayer senses to stake another EC!

Have a great weekend all...I'm getting a jump on happy hour...

[4sigma]

I've already indicated to the slayer that I think Werewolf is suspect. I expect the slayer has just about as much information on Sunny and Butters as we do. For the record, I've said that we have mixed feelings on Butters, and have not sent any opinion on Sunny

While I am inclined to think that Sunny and Butters are probably not EC, I do not think it is conclusive, and am willing to let the slayer decide on their own.

[thing]

Thank you, thank you all very much. I am obviously far too naive for this game. :)

[Leela]

Does anyone have any thoughts on Butters vs. Kenshiro? The slayer plans on hitting Butters unless we think Kenshiro is a much better pick. I need to let the slayer know by 11:30 RF time.

I'm fine with letting the slayer hit Butters.

[Leela]

So, I'm going to bed. If anyone has any doubts about letting the slayer hit Butters, here's the code: Use at least 2 of the following emoticons in a post before 11:30 RF time :horse: :viola: :wink: :swear: . The slayer will be looking for me or 4sigma to be posting it. So, you may want to include my name in the post, or let 4sigma post if he's on. Goodnight all.

[Gandalf]

As I look over the ghost forum posts, it seems to me that almost everyone thinks, without feeling strongly, that Butters is not EC2, especially based on his away from the RF situation.

We seem generally neutral on Kenshiro as EC2.

Unless at least one person thinks Butters is a better choice than Kenshiro, I suggest that we say Butters would be OK, but we prefer Kenshiro.

[Butters]

Unless at least one person thinks Butters is a better choice than Kenshiro, I suggest that we say Butters would be OK, but we prefer Kenshiro.

I would have agreed with that. :shake:

[Werewolf]

Does anyone know if werewolf is male? The avatar seems feminine to me: pink background, non-aggressive wolf. NTTAWW an avatar that's not macho.

I'm the same gender as the character in my avatar. (Not that anyone recognizes the picture. It's a very obscure link that could possibly reveal my real name. I keep my real name secret; only one person on the forum has it.) I actually found very few usable pictures, and the avatar with the pink background is one of them.

[Jables]

Ok, well since Werewolf bumped the Round 5 thread already... :)

Here's another connection to cubedbee which is most likely coincidence...

Late Tuesday afternoon/evening Jables announced in the 2pac Broke the RF thread that his internet problems at work had been solved. Then, cubedbee posted his death scene on Wednesday morning. Is this a coincidence? Or did cubedbee tell his EC partner Jables that the Slayer had killed him and he was going to post a death scene in the morning, and Jables wanted to take on a more outspoken role as EC? It probably was a coincidence.

Yes, it was just a coincidence... Every day at work I try and get to this site, some days with more luck than others... If anything I can read for a bit before my internet totally craps out. The day I posted in 2pac's thread, I thought mt problems had been solved, and I was excited to be able to post to the EC game thread during the day again, but alas it crapped out as I was writing a post. I seem to be able to download (read) the pages, but not so much luck when it comes to logging in and uploading (posting) anything...