'Fellowship-Level' vs 'Associateship-Level' Exams

[Matty]

Any difference in the difficulty of questions?

[Maine-iac]

I would say 8-9 are a tad worse than 5-6-7, but not by much. 8 is actually difficult to judge, because if you have a familiarity with financial topics, it can seem easier (the study materials are particularly good for this exam), whereas if you are totally new to the concepts, you can get lost fast, even with the well-written textbooks. There isn't much overlap between topics on 8 and the other exams, or between 8 topics and what most P&C actuaries are exposed to in their jobs. (Not true of all P&C actuaries, of course, and exposure to these concepts is growing.)

7 can seem pretty bad, since the topics are not particularly cohesive, and the materials aren't the best, though the concepts themselves are not overly technical.

Just my opinion, of course. This is a pretty subjective topic.

[MNBridge]

I found 8 to be one of the easier exams. Except there are probably 2 big reasons for that.
1) The notes Goldfarb has for part 8 and the textbooks are much much better than anything for any of the other exams. Almost a disgrace to even compare they are so much different.
2) I did go to graduate school for an MBA so am familiar with the material.

7 was the exam I felt was the hardest as far as difficulty of material. I passed 7 on my second try.

9 seems easier than 7 yet I have gotten two 4's on this exam and it is the only exam I ever failed twice. Hopefully I won't make it a third time this fall.

And as Maine-iac points out - ask 20 people this question and you may get 20 different answers depending on backrounds and areas that are easier.
i.e. I think someone with good memorization skills may find 7 much easier than 8.

[Anon67]

8 and 9 are bit more competitive as almost everyone at 8 is aiming for Fellowship and quite a few of 9ers are too. Therefore, it is a lot easier to hit the borderline mark and depending on the graders mood below the borderline mark.

8 is a good read. The text books are excellent (compared to most of the crap we have to read) and being textbooks, there are questions at the end of each chapter to test yourself on topic knowledge. Concepts, for the most part, are easy to understand. The more difficult concepts are rarely tested and anyway, make up a small percentage of the exam. But, as for all exams, the exam is really about being better than a high percentage of other people. So, if you are a good exam taker, you have it made.

9 is fun and my favorite exam. It is a bunch of articles, though, no textbooks. But the topics are stimulating. The problem I've had with 9 is that the exam committee chose to set the borderline above my mark. This confuses me as people that I know who couldn't stand or understand the material still passed. Therefore, I'm going to say that the way to pass this exam is to do old questions as opposed to understanding the material. Well, I suppose both ways would guarantee a pass. 9 definitely favors the fast exam writers as the committee has an insistence on making the exam longer than necessary.

[Maine-iac]

9 is fun and my favorite exam.

You need to get out of the sun, lie down, and have a cool drink. Really, you'll feel much better. :)

I do pretty much agree with the rest of that paragraph, though.

[GefilteFish144]

Therefore, I'm going to say that the way to pass this exam is to do old questions as opposed to understanding the material.

Not sure how well this method works for Exam 9, as I've been working through past problems going as far back as '91 and they still find new stuff to ask about. I know, it's still early, but I agree that it is generally more interesting material than most of the other exams. But that's not saying much....

[JTBenson]

9 seems easier than 7 yet I have gotten two 4's on this exam and it is the only exam I ever failed twice. Hopefully I won't make it a third time this fall.

Don't worry. You'll get 'em on the river.

[Tobias Funke]

The difficulty of the questions is not the issue here. These exams would be more difficult than the other exams to pass, simply due to the fact that the people taking them are brighter (aka passed the exams prior to this one). So, if the CAS was consistent in its passing ratios from one exam to the other, these 2 would be harder.

However, the CAS has recently started virtually giving away exam 8 by setting a pass mark so low that 50% or more have passed over the last few years. I know this is a trend which is also witnessed in the other exams but I think it's just been more blatant on Exam 8. It's part of the master plan of the FCAS-Dilution Task Force, a shadow government created by a dozen of ACAS who have decided to do whatever it takes to eliminate the knowledge differential between ACAS and FCAS. :tfh:

[GefilteFish144]

However, the CAS has recently started virtually giving away exam 8 by setting a pass mark so low that 50% or more have passed over the last few years. I know this is a trend which is also witnessed in the other exams but I think it's just been more blatant on Exam 8. It's part of the master plan of the FCAS-Dilution Task Force, a shadow government created by a dozen of ACAS who have decided to do whatever it takes to eliminate the knowledge differential between ACAS and FCAS.

Yep, I know this FDTF worked very hard to set the pass mark for last fall's Exam 9 to an oh-so-generous 38%....

[Maine-iac]

Gee whiz, Button, :tfh: is right.

Exam 8 candidates, being very near FCAS, are highly motivated, and have proven talent to pass exams. These exams are self-study, and there is a strong concensus that the Part 8 materials are of unusually high quality, compared to other exams. It seems to me not at all unlikely that a larger number of candidates would be well prepared for this exam than might be the case on other exams. Particularly because of the materials.

The CAS seems somewhat reluctant to believe this, almost fighting itself to keep the pass percentage low, for fear that the high raw scores indicate the exam is "too easy".

Just because the quality of material allows the students to use their 300 hours of study time to better advantage, it does not follow that passing more of them than might grasp the material on other exams "dumbing down". It's what you would expect with better tools. Why bother finding better tools if you don't expect more people to be able to make effective use of them?

[Howard Mahler]

Let us note that one reason we can have superior syllabus material on Part 8 is that the majority of the topics are not specific to the CAS or actuarial work.

Howard Mahler

[Maine-iac]

Absolutely. There are good reasons why materials of similar quality are not always availble for actuarially specific topics.

My only point is that since financial topics have a wide enough market to have generated superior materials, and since we use the materials on Part 8, it is not illogical that the pass percentage could be higher without "dumbing down" the exam.