Arthur Andersen implodes

[Troy McClure]

Just wondering if this is affecting the marketplace for actuaries? Not sure how actuaries are affected - if they will be laid off or if they are a part of one of the units that will be sold off to another Big 5.

My guess is that there are a number of AA actuaries who are being displaced or will be soon, and are very marketable. Usually, when actuaries are laid off, it's just a nice way of saying you're fired, they lay off 10% of their actuaries, but it's the 10% that are the worst performers (not always). Contrast this with the current situation, where there are some actuaries who will (may) be laid off, and there is no reason to believe that there is any fault there.

Overall, there will be the same number of actuaries doing the same amount of work in the long run, but in the short run, I am guessing that anybody who was already looking to leave will have a lot more competition than they otherwise would from the AA people.

Particularly interested in the P/C side, but SOA comments are welcome.

[Double Down Trent]

Well, I've read that AA's Tax division, which includes their "Human Capital" practice, which includes all of their actuaries (P&C and Life/Pension), has been sold to Deloitte & Touche. Not sure if it is official yet, but I've heard that it is a done deal.

Kind of a shame for AA actuaries. I knew a few at AA (I don't see or speak to them anymore due to geographical distances, but I think they are still there) and I know a few at D&T. From what I could piece together from them, AA was much more technically sound than D&T. But since they are being acquired, they will probably have to do everything in the D&T manner.

Must be tough to be acquired be a lesser organization, at least as far as your position goes.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

I thought the consultants were under the "Accenture" brand. Is Accenture being affected by this?

[WWSituation]

For whatever reason, the actuaries remained under Arthur Andersen. Accenture really only encompassed their IT consulting.

[AAinsider]

Accenture was originally Andersen's business consulting arm.

Business consulting was used as a generic term to represent general business consulting. It did not include specific consulting groups such as actuaries, tax consulting, executive comp or other such groups. I am not quite sure what type of engagements Accenture or Andersen's current BC group actually participate in. I do not think the mergers and aquisitions group is within this group either.

The pension actuarial group is housed in Andersen's Human Capital Group, which is part of it's tax practice.

[Kitten]

I would imagine the better known and most desired actuaries from AA were being scoped by other consulting firms and insurance companies. I am sure there are plenty of opps if they didn't want to stay with D&T.

[Fiveagain]

Now that the verdict is in on Arthur Anderson I wonder what everyone thinks. We all feel fairly secure in our positions, but if the actions of a few can totally discredit a company, how safe are we really?

If the Houston office had a few renegade people doing the wrong thing, and the whole company is affected, then how safe are we when we have offices around the country. Can we trust our top people not to accept unethical (and illegal) practices so that the company can remain economically strong?

[Fiveagain]

Oops--I spelled Andersen wrong. How would I edit my reply? Help.

[Kitten]

If the Houston office had a few renegade people doing the wrong thing, and the whole company is affected, then how safe are we when we have offices around the country. Can we trust our top people not to accept unethical (and illegal) practices so that the company can remain economically strong?
There are bad apples everywhere. I would expect this type of thing might happen again. That doesn't mean the whole profession is untrustworthy, and I think the public knows that deep down. The unfortunate reality is that there will be movement at the time when these things happen because of the immediate panic that the entire firm is tainted.

[Fiveagain]

We all know that not all Andersen employees are "bad". Still, they will all be affected by the verdict. That is my point. If my company employees in another office get into trouble, my job could be affected.

Andersen may be the tip of the iceberg. Do you think other companies will be devasted by this current accounting mess?

[Lee Mellon]

I think all the vasts will be gone soon. I haven't seen a vast at my office in ages.

Clue - most of the current market troubles (yes, Shekky, everything is overvalued, but the investors wouldn't care but for...) are related to the emergence of accounting "irregularities." The investors and those who advise them feel lost without reporting they can trust.

Can this happen any(every)where else? Of course it can. Greed can cause management to ignore consequences and all the other folks in the food chain can lose their meal ticket.

[Intents]

What a stark reminder that pride goeth before the fall.

I wish I had a better way of shutting down pride when I notice it swelling rather than self-deprecation or self destructive habits.

[Branwell]

It's a good thing I didn't listen to the recruiter who tries to interest me in a job at Andersen a few months ago.