Personal accomplishments on resume

[Anonymous]

Should one boast about their accomplishments? E.g.,

Avid marathoner
Chess champion
Member of Toastmasters
Member of MENSA

Which ones are worth mentioning?

[Enough Exams Already]

It's really up to you. Sometimes it's a good way to establish some kind of rapport, and that can help you land the job. My first job out of college I got because I can read ancient Greek, and so could the interviewer. If you're going to be speaking, then listing groups like Toastmasters would be a plus, so that should definitely go in. The rest of them--it's really up to you.

[Patience]

It is all perspective.

1) I used to believe and still do that many employers want well rounded people

2) However, many actuarial employers are looking for "study nerds" who will have no outside distractions. In this case the extra-cirricular would hurt you.

3) There is only so much room on a resume', I wouldn't clutter it up with something that might be taken different ways.

4) Mensa is the most relevant, though I believe most actuaries wouldn't be overly impressed. It all depends on what message you are trying to get across for the rest.

So basically I would avoid it, unless your current resume is blank and you need filler. You can always bring up something pertinent if you believe the interviewer would truly care.

[anon789]

Put them all in, but keep it brief. I once got an interview based solely on the fact that I had 'avid cycler' on my resume.

Maybe skip Mensa. Some folks don't look upon this as a positive.

[Ranger]

Definitley skip relying on Mensa.
All actuaries are smart. Don't get into a contest of IQ's. If you want to prove you're smart, pass some actuarial exams. Have a high GPA. Both of these are much more relevant.

List other activities that show you have real potential. The ones that show you are well rounded. This profession doesn't need people who can only pass exams. It needs people who can communicate/relate well with others, both in writing and orally.

[Anonymous]

I agree with anon789 and ranger. It helps to show that you have passion about something and are dedicated to it (e.g., marathoner) or something that shows you have a personality, despite what they say about actuaries. :wink:

[urysohn]

When you're looking at a huge pile of resumes, sometimes it's the little things that makes one stand out. Everybody went to college, everybody has a decent GPA, everybody passed a couple of exams, and many have internships. It's the cool quirky things that make some resumes stand out in your mind and might make the difference between a callback or not. I wouldn't include things like "likes to read" or "spends hours each day playing video games". But if you can put down something like "run in boston marathon for past 5 years" then by all means put it down. The people reviewing the resumes may not remember John Smith, but they'll remember "Marathon Guy" or "Woman that speaks five languages" or "Avid Skydiver"

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Regardless of the thrill skydiving might be, I'd be reluctant to put any risky activities on a resume for an actuarial position. Too far off the mundane.

Same for any activities that will affect your work -- "I take each January off to visit the monarch butterfly hibernation spot in Mexico, and on occasion will take long weekends finding butterflies in exotic locations."

Unless it's something your work can and will sponsor -- "Race Across America cyclist."

But anything that's different from the regular actuary is fine, and the more exams one has passed, the more hobbies you can write down. More as a conversation starter, but be prepared to show passion in it. The same passion you fake for actuarial work.

[42]

On 2001-09-28 12:23, Dr T Non-Fan wrote: Regardless of the thrill skydiving might be, I'd be reluctant to put any risky activities on a resume for an actuarial position.

I always list skydiving under hobbies. The president at my previous company told me that he knew he wanted to hire me as soon as he saw that, because it showed that, unlike many actuaries, I wasn't afraid to take a risk! (Of course physical risk-taking and financial risk-taking are very different.)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 42 on 2001-09-28 15:58 ]</font>

[Dr T Non-Fan]

I wonder how many interviews you missed because of it?
I think the biggest issue would be replacing you. The slightly higher probability may make some decide against hiring you. Their loss, I suppose.
But, hey, whatever gets you in the door, or, in your case, how you jump out of one!

[42]

I guess there's no way to know if it cost me any interviews. But even if it did, it was probably all for the best. if a company had a problem with something that's important to me, it probably wouldn't have been a good fit. The sooner we find that out, the better.

[slam]

It's a good idea to put down something which sounds interesting. I view no such items on a resume as a negative. You never know what's going to catch a resume reader's eye. If one of those becomes the topic of conversation, you're likely to shine. Almost anything which shows that you're not one-dimensional can work.

My vote is never put down Mensa on a resume. My opinion is that it's a group for intelligent people who somehow don't get validation in other aspects of life. Success requires much more than just the ability to do logic puzzles (or actuarial exams, for that matter).

[WWSituation]

I don't know if extracurriculars are appropriate for the resume. I would definately bring them up in the interview if given the opportunity. (i.e. "Tell me about yourself")

To whoever said that everybody has a good GPA and everybody has exams out of college, tell me where you are getting your resumes. If you have a good GPA and exams, you WILL get plenty of interviews.

[Homer]

On my resume, I put down that I can tell the difference between butter and I Can't Believe It's Not Butter, but the interviewer could tell that I was lieing.

[WQN]

I think you should follow the general rule, that whatever you put down on the resume becomes fair game for the interview. So if you want to discuss your hobbies then put them down. Some of our candidates have put down, "like to spend time with family". Now you're into discussing your family, kids, etc. I personally would like to throw away any resume that implies all a person does is study and work. First of all I'd like to be able to run into someone at the water cooler and be able to discuss something besides work. So yes I look for something we have in common.

[Patience]

I agree in general with most have said regarding the personal stuff.

But, I don't consider the actuarial world totally part of the real world. Many of those making the hiring decision are looking for little aside from exam pass potential. Anything you write that implies you have other priorities in life could hurt you at such an interview.

If you are picky and feel "I wouldn't work for them anyway" then I agree put down some interesting facts (not at the expense of over cluttering the resume'). But if you are willing to take any actuarial job and don't mind an "exam sweat shop", I would stick to the basics.

[WWSituation]

Is an "exam sweat shop" one of the 35 hour week companies that give a month off for study time?

[Patience]

ok the wrod sweat shop doesn't work, but what I meant is there are still lots of places that care about exam results more than even work output.

and they prefer people with no life.

[WQN]

Can you name one for me? We have a good balance where I work, exams are important but we also have serious work assignments. I'm curious where the exam sweat shops are and what the exam progress rules are at those places. I think it is short sighted of a company to hire an actuarial student who might not have enough personality and versatility to be a manager. If a company is only looking at exams they will have missed the big picture when it comes to having the actuary take on a management role and deal with other areas of the company. I think skills other than exam passing are critical.

[Patience]

Times are changin' and maybe they don't exist as much anymore, but TIAA/CREF was definitely only exam oriented.

I found it to be fairly the same at any large insurance carrier, where you rotate and are hired by the student program.

I had an interview with ISO (do they still exist?) where all I got to do was rattle off GPA's and standarized exam scores

[WWSituation]

Patience, we must have worked together at TIAA/CREF! I was just thinking of them!

[42]

On 2001-10-08 11:49, Patience wrote: If you are picky and feel "I wouldn't work for them anyway" then I agree put down some interesting facts (not at the expense of over cluttering the resume'). But if you are willing to take any actuarial job and don't mind an "exam sweat shop", I would stick to the basics.

Excellent point. Your level of openness/desperation is certainly one of the biggest factors affecting whether or not you should include non-work activities.

As for whether companies consider exams to be the "be all and end all" when it comes to hiring - from my experience, I know the companies I have worked for always looked at the total package.

OTOH, many of the problems that prevent people from getting ahead in non-actuarial jobs show up earlier in actuarial jobs due to the exams. (Examples: poor time management, lack of commitment, inability to work on multiple projects simultaneously, etc.) This may be why some companies tend to focus more on the exams.

[Intents]

My best luck with resumes has been a two-step process: sketch one out and encourage the placement person to have a heavy hand in making it a deliverable.

[Carlos]

To Intent: can you elaborate?

[Flora]

Way old thread, but I wanted to caution against Intent's approach - I found that the recruiter I used had MISTAKES on my resume. I have also seen other resumes that were sent by recruiters that problems with them (the resumes that is). I HATE resumes with errors and tend to hold it against the applicant - at least until I remember that it could be the recruiter's fault.

[Ron Weasley]

With respect to the original post, sometimes listing your interests can tell you something about the company. In my last job search, I interviewed with only two companies and listed an unusual interest on my resume. One company commented and was curious, the other wasn't. I went with the curious company. Not for that reason alone, but it did make me feel better about the company.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

I agree with Flora.

Do not give your resume to someone to edit. If you want advice from someone and happen to take that advice, change your resume yourself.
Own it.

[Patience]

Unfortunately most interviews I have had are controlled by the headhunter. Even though they have my resume, they have edited it.

Nothing done immorally or incorrectly though

[The Mister]

On 2001-11-07 15:49, Patience wrote:
Unfortunately most interviews I have had are controlled by the headhunter. Even though they have my resume, they have edited it.

Nothing done immorally or incorrectly though.<font size=2>That's one reason I hesitate to use D.W.Simpson again. (and apparently a number of other recruiters) Whenever I've sent them my resume, they completely reformat it in their standard format, then delete some information that I wanted there. I *like* my format. It's professional-looking and gives ample white space while still maximizing the amount of information on the document. Their format, while professional-looking, is lifeless and boring.

I also like having my exam scores shown.

I can't imagine what might have prompted them to completely redo my resume, other than an antiquated official format that they have been told they should use.

If I ever find myself in need of a recruiter again, I will insist that my format remain intact.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The Mister on 2001-11-07 16:46 ]</font>

[42]

I agree with DTNF. Edit it yourself or, if the recruiter wants to edit/reformat it, insist that he/she send you a copy before sending it out to companies. As an interviewer, I would not be as generous as Flora and consider that it might have been the recruiter's mistake, because IMO you should personally review something as critical as this.

To Patience: Did this recruiter let you know that he/she was going to reformat your resume, and did he run it by you first?

[Patience]

When it happened to me I didn't realize it was a standard practice, so didn't think to proof.

Found out when interviewer handed me a copy. I always bring extra anyway, if being suffled around can't be sure everyone has a copy on them.

[WWSituation]

Posting exam scores is a whole other issue. I personally think it is ridiculous. I've put those resumes to the back of the pile just because I think that listing them is insane.

It implies that you think that your scores (other than the 6) are important. We try to eliminate that notion from students in our program.

[Flora]

Ditto Patience - I had no idea my resume was going to be tampered with until I was given a copy AFTER it had been distributed. It didn't even occur to me that would happen.

[The Mister]

On 2001-11-08 09:39, WWSituation wrote:
Posting exam scores is a whole other issue. I personally think it is ridiculous. I've put those resumes to the back of the pile just because I think that listing them is insane.

It implies that you think that your scores (other than the 6) are important. We try to eliminate that notion from students in our program.<font size=2>I agree that once you're hired, the scores themselves are no longer as important. (Results are the same whether you pass with a 6 or a 10.) However, in an interview with a company that emphasizes exam performance, I like to show that I have a solid record of passing with better-than-sixes, simply because it shows that I would be less likely to be a burden on the prospective employer's exam program.

(Having said all that, I haven't taken an exam in 2 years, and don't work for an actuarial business. Next time I interview, I'll probably de-emphasize the actuarial stuff anyway, since it most likely won't be important to the employer.)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The Mister on 2001-11-08 10:14 ]</font>

[42]

I agree with The Mister - seeing somebody ace the exam rather than just squeaking by says something about their chances for passing future exams.

Patience and Flora - thanks for the heads-up. I had no idea that recruiters altering resumes was such a common practice. If I ever move again and use a recruiter, I will definitely keep this in mind.

[Anonymous]

Dude, don't listen to these guys.
You HAVE to put the Mensa membership on your resume.
And hopefully you'll send your resume to my company so that we can laugh our heads off at you!

[Anonymous]

I was wondering if listing all my positions in the Democratic party would benefit myself. The bonus is that I know many important political figures; however, I am nervous that they would think that I don't have time to pass exams. Would listing my high test scores counter balance my involvement in the Democratic party?
It is not as if I actually do very much work, but that I get the work done correctly in the Democratic party in the party. I mostly just do Get Out The Vote (gotv) work. I also bike 100 miles every weekend, but that is only a few hours.

Would the fact that I don't smoke nor drink help. I would like a non-smoking work
environment.

I am nearly finished with my degree; however, I have a Peace Corps assigment and won't be able to work for aprox. 2 years, but I have found a testing center in the country I will be doing Peace Corps assigment.

[Anonymous]

On 2002-02-20 21:23, Anonymous wrote:
I was wondering if listing all my positions in the Democratic party would benefit myself. The bonus is that I know many important political figures; however, I am nervous that they would think that I don't have time to pass exams. Would listing my high test scores counter balance my involvement in the Democratic party?
It is not as if I actually do very much work, but that I get the work done correctly in the Democratic party in the party. I mostly just do Get Out The Vote (gotv) work. ... (blah, blah, blah)



Be sure and note early on the first page that you are not particulary clever or funny.

[Minerva]

Assuming that the penultimate Anonymous is serious - I wouldn't mention politics at all, with or without being party-specific. FWIW -I WOULD mention the Peace Corps and the bike riding.

If Anonymous isn't serious - well, I fell for it again. (No one ever accused me of having a keen sense of humor.)

[urysohn]

I would skip the Democratic party stuff. Forget about being worried they'll thing you have too many time constraints. I've noticed I'm one of a handful of Democratic-leaning people in a sea of Republicans. You might not lose the job because you're a strong Democrat, but I don't believe that's one of those things protected along with race, color, gender,... And the way I see it, if you put it on your resume it's fair game. (i.e. don't expect that it will help you out and thinks it's "unfair" if it hurts you)

[Anonymous]

On 2002-02-21 11:55, Minerva wrote:
Assuming that the penultimate Anonymous is serious...If Anonymous isn't serious - well, I fell for it again. (No one ever accused me of having a keen sense of humor.)


I am serious about my membership in the Dem. Party. I think I won't listed. So spending two years teaching basic math in a land far, far away won't hurt? Also, why doesn't anyone believe me. I understand that I am anonymous; however, I just feel better and more protect (even if I am not) by posting anonymous.

This Anonymous.

[urysohn]

Peace Corps absolutely, without a doubt, goes on the resume. Not only does it answer the "what have you been doing the last two years" question, it's just an all around good thing. I find it unfathomable to think that ANY prospective employer could see that as a bad thing.

[Minerva]

Ditto Urysohn! And - depending on what situation you end up with in the Peace Corps, you can demonstrate all sorts of other creative skills.