Philips HeartStart AED

[HeartStart]

This is a blatant attempt to sell you something!

Did you watch the Today show last Friday (9/17)? If so, you may have seen a demonstration of the first Automated External Defibrillator to recieve FDA approval for sale to individuals without a perscription.

I am lucky enough to be selling a product that is by far the best AED on the market. If you want an AED, please let me know.

Sudden cardiac arrest strikes approximately a quarter of a million people in the United State per year, fewer than 5% survive. When sudden cardiac arrest strikes, the electrical system of the heart short circuits, most often causing an abnormal rhythm called ventricular fibrillation. A "shock" from a defibrillator is needed to restore the heart's normal pumping rhythm. A victim's best chance of surviving sudden cardiac arrest is to recieve that shock within 5 minutes.

How long does it take for an EMT to get to your house after you call 911?

Like the fire extinguisher you have in your kitchen, an in home AED is ready for use in case of an emergency.

If you're interested let me know.

[Traci]

Assuming this this not a trolling thread. :roll: Fewer than 5% survive? Something's wrong with that stat. With prompt attention, I think the odds of survival are pretty good nowadays. (I hate scare-tactic advertising)

But anyway --

Are these really such a good idea???

What happens if you get a jolt from one of these things when you're NOT having a heart attack?

Oftentimes -- especially in women -- other ailments can appear symptomatic of a heart attack -- (and vice versa - often people, especially women think they have something else, when they're really having a heart attack)

Anyway -- I wouldn't want some yayhoo - with no medical training - zapping me with volts of electricity when I'm passed out from heat stroke or something ... :shake:

[fallout]

What's it cost?

If the answer starts with, what is your life worth to you... don't bother.

[Actuary321]

I think I heard they were like $2K.

As for Traci's contention. I do not think these are to be self administered. When some one has Sudden Cardiac Arrest and goes in to ventricular fib(whatever). The heart is just fluttering, not beating and not pumping blood to the body (especially the heart and brain). This person is rarely if ever alert and conscious, I believe.

250,000 people get this and 12,500 survive? Remember the key word is Sudden. This means the heart stops beating suddenly. If CPR is not started immediately and help (with sufficent ability and equipment) arrives very fast the ability to save will be very low. Of course my question would be how many of these 250,000 happen at night in bed and the person wakes up dead?

[Traci]

As for Traci's contention. I do not think these are to be self administered.

Well :duh:


When some one has Sudden Cardiac Arrest and goes in to ventricular fib(whatever). The heart is just fluttering, not beating and not pumping blood to the body (especially the heart and brain). This person is rarely if ever alert and conscious, I believe.

Right -- But when someone passes out from heat exhaustion - or stroke - or something else -- how much more damage will be done by an untrained person saying "Quick! Get the portable defibrilator!" :yikes:

[hugh]

I want to buy one for my parents. I called Philips today. I said i want some info but she kept asking me questions like my name and if i need it for a communty centre or home and my father's name. i didnt give her any info and said just tell me how much it is. she said are you going to place an order or not. i said not before you tell me how much it is. and she said i cant tell you. i said ok ta ta.

[hugh]

Assuming this this not a trolling thread.

why do you people say this time and again? this is rude.

[Actuary321]

As for Traci's contention. I do not think these are to be self administered.

Well :duh:


When some one has Sudden Cardiac Arrest and goes in to ventricular fib(whatever). The heart is just fluttering, not beating and not pumping blood to the body (especially the heart and brain). This person is rarely if ever alert and conscious, I believe.

Right -- But when someone passes out from heat exhaustion - or stroke - or something else -- how much more damage will be done by an untrained person saying "Quick! Get the portable defibrilator!" :yikes:
Sorry.

I don't know how these things work but don't they check for a heart beat? They are pretty sophisticated machines, I believe they even tell everyone to step back and not be touching the patient prior to administering the shock. With that level of technology, I would hope that it does some kind of diagnosis to determine if the persons heart is beating correctly before it attempts to kill them.

I would hope that there is manditory training that goes with this. Of course if the person that got the training is the one whose heart stopped then...?

As an aside, we recently honored some employees from a local golf course for saving a man's life with one that the golf course had purchased through a fundraising tournament.

The guy collapsed and workers and other patrons started administering to him. One guy started CPR when it was determined his heart was not beating. They called 911 and got the defib machine. By the time the EMTs showed up the guy was sitting up talking with those around him.

[DeepPurple]

My employer has one of these in each office location.

Since our main office is in lower Manhatten, HR policies about saftey have gotten reasonably protective. Stuff like the AEDs, and stocking the copy room with emergency kits and bottled water, etc.


Anyway, our local fire department came out and gave us all training on CPR as well as how to use the AED. It is about as difficult to use as a toaster. It also is programmed NOT to be false fired (used when the victem is not in need). The instructions are written right on the thing. These things are a pretty sane thing to have around.

[Traci]

I would hope that there is manditory training that goes with this.

Doesn't sound like it -- from the cheesy ad that started this thread.


Anyway, our local fire department came out and gave us all training on CPR as well as how to use the AED. It is about as difficult to use as a toaster. It also is programmed NOT to be false fired (used when the victem is not in need). The instructions are written right on the thing.

Well -- that makes me feel better then. :)

[HeartStart]

Traci, I'm not trolling. (There is a first time tor everything. :))

The cheesy ad was to open up some conversation. I've been given the statistics on SCA. I'm not in the actuarial profession any longer and I haven't verified rates like those given since. I knew if I threw out some rates the actuaries here would rip them apart if they were not valid.

Regarding statistics:
250,000 and 5% are right off the Philips brochure. If there is a resource where I can verify this statement, please let me know.

Cardiac Arrest vs. Heart Attack:
A Heart Attack is usually caused by a blocked blood vessel to the heart. The effected area of the heart begins to die (it's starved for oxygen). The heart is still pumping blood the person is often alert and will experience symptoms ranging from fatigue and shortness of breath to severe pain. The pain from a heart attack most often is centered in the chest, it can radiate down either arm or manifest in the lower jaw or center of the back. A heart attack will not kill you. A heart attack will often lead to cardiac arrest.

Cardiac arrest means your heart is no longer pumping blood. A victim of cardiac arrest is clinically dead. The victim is not breathing and there is no significant body movement. The victim has about 4 to 6 minutes of oxygen in their body. When that is used up, massive cell death begins leading to biological death.

A Lay description of the electrical signals of the heart associated with sudden cardiac arrest.
Normal heart beat: the heart is pumping blood, da-dump da-dump da-dump
Ventricular Tachycardia (VT): abnormally rapid beating of the heart, dadadadada
Ventricular Fibrillation (VF): the heart ain't beating it's twitching, a quivering bowl of Jello
Asystole: Flat line, boooooooooooooooooop

An Automated External Defibrillator will only shock fibrillation. It will not shock a normal heartbeat or asystole. The AED analyzes the victim and determines the heart rhythm. It checks that rhythm against it's database to determine whether it is a "shockable" rhythm or not. If shock is advised, it will charge, inform the user to clear the victim and ask the user to push the shock button. It will not charge so it can not shock unless it finds a heart rhythm that is recognized as fibrillation.

Notice the AED does not destinguish between a normal heart beat or asystole or even VT or VF it does not recognize. The user must determine whether the victim has a heart beat or does not.

[HeartStart]

Assuming this this not a trolling thread.

why do you people say this time and again? this is rude.

Hugh, she knows me. In most if not all cases previously, this would be trolling. This time it is not.

If you are interested in an AED, send me a PM and I'll provide contact information where you can purchase one or get further information.

[HeartStart]

Fallout, I can sell you the Philips HeartStart Home Defibrillator for $1,995.

[HeartStart]

Right -- But when someone passes out from heat exhaustion - or stroke - or something else -- how much more damage will be done by an untrained person saying "Quick! Get the portable defibrilator!" :yikes:

This is exactly when you want an AED. The AED will not charge up and advise to shock unless a shock is needed. Any victim that has passed out could easily go into cardiac arrest. Defibrillation within the first 2 minutes of cardiac arrest has about an 80% survival rate. That rate falls off by about 10% per minute. The national average for ERT response from time of call is 10 to 14 minutes.

Ideally you want the person first on the scene of any medical emergency to have basic lay person emergency response training and CPR including training with an AED. But AED's are designed for use by anyone, even without training so having the AED there is better than nothing.

[urysohn]

Regarding statistics:
250,000 and 5% are right off the Philips brochure. If there is a resource where I can verify this statement, please let me know.

The 5% sounded way off to me, so I did a quick Google. I think the American Heart Association is an unbiased source not trying to sell anything, unless I'm confusing them with somebody else.

Operation Heartbeat is a community-based initiative designed to help improve the national sudden cardiac arrest survival rate, which is currently about 5 percent.

About 340,000 people a year die of coronary heart disease without being hospitalized or admitted to an emergency room...Most of these are sudden deaths caused by cardiac arrest.

[Maine-iac]

There is one at Mr. M's office. All of the employees are required to have training in general first aid and CPR as well as how and when to use the device. This has been mandated within the past two years.

It is probably a good thing. At a prior office, a colleague and close friend of Mr. M had a massive heart attack in the office, and died before medical help could reach him. (That office was about 20 miles from the hospital.) Can't be sure that it would have saved him, but it might have, and he deserved a chance. :(

[MusicMan]

I was in a volunteer fire department for 14 years, and a lot of what we did was to be the first provider of emergency medical care - we usually beat the ambulance to the scene.

The 5% survival is correct. It's not like on TV, where the person gets CPR and is shown later smiling and thanking the providers. Usually, even if a heartbeat is re-established by CPR, the individual dies within 24 hours. We were told that use of the AEDs would significantly improve survival rates. Many municipalities are now equipping police cars with AEDs.

But even though 5% is low, it's better than 0%. So IMO everyone ought to get CPR training - it's worth a few minutes of your time to get training that may save someone's life (like mine).

And FWIW, some implanted pacemakers have an AED function.

AEDs will generally assess the situation & recommend shock/no shock. I suppose that there may be a risk that someone who doesn't need it may get shocked. There's been the risk for years that someone who doesn't need CPR will get it as well - not a good idea. And the previous posters were correct - if the individual is awake & alert, they are *not* in cardiac arrest.

I'm off my soapbox now.

[HeartStart]

AEDs will generally assess the situation & recommend shock/no shock. I suppose that there may be a risk that someone who doesn't need it may get shocked. There's been the risk for years that someone who doesn't need CPR will get it as well - not a good idea. And the previous posters were correct - if the individual is awake & alert, they are *not* in cardiac arrest.

Thanks MusicMan. I'm impress that you were a volunteer fireman - a lot of work and risk for very little recognition.

Regarding the quoted portion above...
There is very little risk an AED would shock someone that doesn't need it. To that extent, Philips imdemnifies you from any lawsuit associated with failure or damage caused by a malfunction or failure of a Philips unit.

I am an AHA nationally certified trainer of CPR and Emergency Response. CPR will not damage a beating heart and as we say "the body will let you know if the heart is beating and you start compressions."

And I agree with MusicMan, everyone should have CPR training. If you're in or near Central Ohio, let me know and I can arange for training.