liveblogging the 2nd and 3rd debates.

[John F. Kennedy]

That was cute, calling Bush "the Republican nominee." Isn't he the president?

[Jonas Grumby]

That was cute, calling Bush "the Republican nominee." Isn't he the president?

I thought he said "President George Bush, the Republican nominee." Should he have said it twice?

[Happy Skunk]

First impression:

GWB is going to do better in the town hall format.

He's a cowboy after all.

[Happy Skunk]

After 5 minutes:

1 small flub by GWB

But he is winning.

Kerry just said he wanted to give Clinton the power to attack IRAQ but Bush did it wrong because Iran is the power now.

[John F. Kennedy]

That was cute, calling Bush "the Republican nominee." Isn't he the president?

I thought he said "President George Bush, the Republican nominee." Should he have said it twice?
Maybe I should have turned up my computer earlier. :oops:

Still, who is Kerry channelling?

[fallout]

Why does Kerry want other countries to train Iraqis instead of the USA?

[Happy Skunk]

Interesting observation:

Bush speaks to the crowd.

Kerry speaks to Bush.

[Jonas Grumby]

Why does Kerry want other countries to train Iraqis instead of the USA?

He wants a coalition to train them.

[Jonas Grumby]

Interesting observation:

Bush speaks to the crowd.

Kerry speaks to Bush.

I think that's a deliberate tactic to piss Bush off.

[Jonas Grumby]

"We've got a great country. I love our values."

[Happy Skunk]

He skirted that question (Dimplomacy) Kerry has a chance to attack.

[American Psycho]

Bush is blaming the generals for too few troops

[John F. Kennedy]

The bad news is that bush sounds a bit shrill. the good news is that I was able to hear him in the next room where I was making dinner.

[Jonas Grumby]

Oooooo, the blame the generals strategy. Kerry's going to catch him out on the plan-the-peace issue.

[Happy Skunk]

23 minutes. Bush winning.

[fallout]

I think we got this Bin Laden thing already Kerry, move on.

[American Psycho]

Kerry is not answering, "what'll you do if Iran gets nukes?"

[Happy Skunk]

Bush is blaming the generals for too few troops

I didn't see it that way, but I can see how it came across.

Good obsvervation.

[Jonas Grumby]

23 minutes. Bush winning.

Disagree. He's seething. About to explode.

[Jonas Grumby]

Kerry is not answering, "what'll you do if Iran gets nukes?"

Agree.

[Paddyboy1]

blah blah blah inspections saddam sanctions. Why was there no debate about going to war at the debates in 1996 or 1992? The powers that be decided we go to war. Everyone agreed. Then they quibble over the details. Was Dole a big pussy for appeasing Saddam? Bush Sr.? Gore? No, of course not. Because the automatonic scenario generator didn't say we should invade Iraq back then. So they're fine.

[fallout]

Kerry will work on not developing new weapons? He is blowing it.

The election is about security. Kerry is taking a really poor strategy here.

[American Psycho]

Bush self effaces -- scowl -- almost succeeded with humor.

Charly Babbit made a joke.

[Jonas Grumby]

No domestic policy then?

[fallout]

blah blah blah inspections saddam sanctions. Why was there no debate about going to war at the debates in 1996 or 1992? The powers that be decided we go to war. Everyone agreed. Then they quibble over the details. Was Dole a big pussy for appeasing Saddam? Bush Sr.? Gore? No, of course not. Because the automatonic scenario generator didn't say we should invade Iraq back then. So they're fine.

It's called "politics".

[Jonas Grumby]

Bush just left himself open to the cutting-the-benefits issue.

[American Psycho]

By the rather easy measure of "is Bush beating last week's Bush?" the answer isa clear: Yes.

[Happy Skunk]

blah blah blah inspections saddam sanctions. Why was there no debate about going to war at the debates in 1996 or 1992? The powers that be decided we go to war. Everyone agreed. Then they quibble over the details. Was Dole a big pussy for appeasing Saddam? Bush Sr.? Gore? No, of course not. Because the automatonic scenario generator didn't say we should invade Iraq back then. So they're fine.

Do what now?

[Paddyboy1]

Bush just left himself open to the cutting-the-benefits issue.

Awesome. are you kidding? We're gonna be rich!

[fallout]

Is name dropping really a good way to try to be President? The spectators look bored.

[urysohn]

23 minutes. Bush winning.

Disagree. He's seething. About to explode.
Semi-disagree. Bush does seem to be sitting there seething. But he's looking pretty good. Tough to call a winner, since both candidates are looking good. But a push goes to the incumbent.

[fallout]

The military is underpaid. (and too small add 40k active duty)

Go Kerry Go!

[American Psycho]

Is Kerry standing right on the line that he is not allowed to cross? I mean is he trying to invade Bush's space?

[John F. Kennedy]

backdoor draft is a fabrication, so I've read.

[fallout]

Poland! Poland! Poland!

[urysohn]

oops, and the seething just turned to snapping. Not a good move by Bush.

[Happy Skunk]

By the rather easy measure of "is Bush beating last week's Bush?" the answer isa clear: Yes.

Brilliant - tank the first debate so you can look good in the second.

[Jonas Grumby]

But a push goes to the incumbent.

Not when the challenger is leading in the polls.

[American Psycho]

What was that with Bush shouting down Gibson?

[Jonas Grumby]

Good line about Missouri. Is it a swing state?

[Happy Skunk]

23 minutes. Bush winning.

Disagree. He's seething. About to explode.

And there he goes. You called it.

[John F. Kennedy]

Maybe Kerry has war "discount coupons."

[Happy Skunk]

33 minute update: Tied.

Bush was ahead until he stuffed the moderator. Kerry is just staying steady.

[American Psycho]

Good line about Missouri. Is it a swing state?

Probably solid Bush -- partly due to "no-gay-marriage" referendum on the ballot

[Jonas Grumby]

Bush is getting that F911 look in his eyes.

[American Psycho]

33 minute update: Tied.

Bush was ahead until he stuffed the moderator. Kerry is just staying steady.

Stuffing the moderator! Five yards. First down.

[fallout]

Bush is finally gettig to Kerry's record. Cutting intelligence and stuff.

I don't know why he doesn't do this more.

[American Psycho]

It sure is a long long long war -- considering the mission was accomplished in 45 days

[Jonas Grumby]

Bush is finally gettig to Kerry's record. Cutting intelligence and stuff.

I don't know why he doesn't do this more.

You are right.

[fallout]

Bush is in his element. Kerry is playing for the tie. This sucks.

[glenn]

My Gawd. I've gotta get studying, but I 've watched it to this point (where Bush overruled the moderator). If those are your choices, you should think about moving to Canada.

Neither one of these guys can debate or apparently think on their feet and convey it thoughts off the cuff. Out of the nation as big and great as the U.S., that's what you put forth? This is not the cream of the crop.

And Bush, that thing with the jaw. STOP IT!

[American Psycho]

Is Bush flip flopping on drug importation?

[Jonas Grumby]

Bush is in his element.

I don't believe that's true.

[American Psycho]

Bush is in his element.

I don't believe that's true.

His element is kryptonite

[fallout]

Bush is in his element.

I don't believe that's true.

You might be right... he is startign to stutter. Of course that was a bad question for him, the drugs one.

The real answer would require a greater understanding than most of the American public could understand about drug development and patents and such.

[American Psycho]

Kerry calls Bush a liar right here right now. Will Bush let it slide? Good advice is for Bush to let it slide.

[Jonas Grumby]

Bush is in his element.

I don't believe that's true.

His element is kryptonite

Barium.

[Jonas Grumby]

Bush is in his element.

I don't believe that's true.

You might be right... he is startign to stutter. Of course that was a bad question for him, the drugs one.

The real answer would require a greater understanding than most of the American public could understand about drug development and patents and such.

Back to agreeing.

[John F. Kennedy]

the rules seem to be breaking down just a bit. sad.

[Jonas Grumby]

Kerry should mention that the administration stifled their actuary.

[American Psycho]

Balanced the budget -- you don't know how.

Body punch.

[Jonas Grumby]

the rules seem to be breaking down just a bit. sad.

Gibson is spineless.

[John F. Kennedy]

save the body blows for after the opponent's last statement. Gore was adept at that trick, too.

[fallout]

Running mate tort lawyer question. These are better questions than I expected.

Go to the internet is not an answer, IMO.

[Purple Monkey Dishwasher]

Running mate tort lawyer question. These are better questions than I expected.

Go to the internet is not an answer, IMO.

You mean the "internets"?

[Jonas Grumby]

Senator Kennedy?

[Happy Skunk]

46 Minutes: Bush slightly ahead.

[Moe Szyslak]

Senator Kennedy?:lol: holy crap

[Moe Szyslak]

46 Minutes: Bush slightly ahead.down 4-2 by my count

[American Psycho]

All four candidates have learned one trick -- never respond (i.e., defend) to the other guys last attack -- just go on your own attack.

[Moe Szyslak]

All four candidates have learned one trick -- never respond (i.e., defend) to the other guys last attack -- just go on your own attack.agreed

[American Psycho]

"He put a trial lawyer on the ticket" -- an opening to attack Cheney??

[Happy Skunk]

Bush is winning for one reason: he is better at the rebuttal.

He pops up and has a sly comment within a millesecond of Kerry finishing.

[fallout]

Bush teaching economics to America.

He is actually making good points.

Why do I think this is funny?

[RTVA]

I'm joining this late, and of course I may be slightly biased as a Bush supporter, but here is my impression of what Kerry is doing....

It reminds me of a high school class president debate, and the incumbent is taking heat for things that are totally out of his control (ie, the school year went to July last year due to a month of snow days or something) and the challenger is making big promises that he can never deliver (ie, recess for 2 hrs a day and gourmet cafeteria food...). I mean, can Kerry really take credit for miraculously balancing the budget in 97? :roll: Combine a recession, 9/11, and a war, and go figure what happened to the surplus.

[Moe Szyslak]

Bush is winning for one reason: he is better at the rebuttal.

He pops up and has a sly comment within a millesecond of Kerry finishing.You say that because you like Bush, I like Kerry and I think his are better. Of course this sont get anywhere cause neither of us are the independants.

[John F. Kennedy]

Bush teaching economics to America.

He is actually making good points.

Why do I think this is funny?

he is, and he is. But you may be tipsy.

[Happy Skunk]

My Gawd. I've gotta get studying, but I 've watched it to this point (where Bush overruled the moderator). If those are your choices, you should think about moving to Canada.

Neither one of these guys can debate or apparently think on their feet and convey it thoughts off the cuff. Out of the nation as big and great as the U.S., that's what you put forth? This is not the cream of the crop.

And Bush, that thing with the jaw. STOP IT!

The Americans are trying to have a conversation. Don't make me smack you with the rolled up newspaper.

[fallout]

I'm joining this late, and of course I may be slightly biased as a Bush supporter, but here is my impression of what Kerry is doing....

It reminds me of a high school class president debate, and the incumbent is taking heat for things that are totally out of his control (ie, the school year went to July last year due to a month of snow days or something) and the challenger is making big promises that he can never deliver (ie, recess for 2 hrs a day and gourmet cafeteria food...). I mean, can Kerry really take credit for miraculously balancing the budget in 97? :roll: Combine a recession, 9/11, and a war, and go figure what happened to the surplus.

Given your obviously strong thoughts about abortion, does it matter at all how this debate goes?

[John F. Kennedy]

that's a body blow. "use simple and unequivocal language." :lol:

OTOH, in the Corner, they're talking about learning French. Wimps!!

[fallout]

My Gawd. I've gotta get studying, but I 've watched it to this point (where Bush overruled the moderator). If those are your choices, you should think about moving to Canada.

Neither one of these guys can debate or apparently think on their feet and convey it thoughts off the cuff. Out of the nation as big and great as the U.S., that's what you put forth? This is not the cream of the crop.

And Bush, that thing with the jaw. STOP IT!

The Americans are trying to have a conversation. Don't make me smack you with the rolled up newspaper.

All Americans are bullies.

[Moe Szyslak]

that's a body blow. "use simple and unequivocal language." :lol:Until he whipped it out and smacked them down.

[fallout]

$200,000?

How can you assume an audience that large has no members making more than that?

[Happy Skunk]

Bush is winning for one reason: he is better at the rebuttal.

He pops up and has a sly comment within a millesecond of Kerry finishing.You say that because you like Bush, I like Kerry and I think his are better. Of course this sont get anywhere cause neither of us are the independants.

No, you may be right cause you are actually listening to the words that they are saying.

Kerry got the first giggle.

[Moe Szyslak]

John McCain and Ronald Reagan, Kerry gets props for supporting the otehr side other than Bush

[American Psycho]

That look in the camera question sounded tough but was really a softball for Kerry

[fallout]

If I were Bush I would stand up and say John McCain wants me to be the next President.

[Happy Skunk]

58 mins: Ties.

Kerry got the first real laugh.

[Moe Szyslak]

$200,000?

How can you assume an audience that large has no members making more than that?That isn't important when you consider the fact that most make less than that.

[American Psycho]

$200,000?

How can you assume an audience that large has no members making more than that?

1) Missouri

2) Undecided

[Moe Szyslak]

That look in the camera question sounded tough but was really a softball for KerryI agree.

[fallout]

The environment sucks for Bush, no matter what he says.

He seems very ready for the question though.

[Moe Szyslak]

If I were Bush I would stand up and say John McCain wants me to be the next President.He probably doesn't realize JM said that.

[Paddyboy1]

I am playing online poker and got up for a G&T and passed the TV. All I heard was that GWB said he increased the wetlands by 3 million. So I guess that means we have like, what, 3,000,008 wetlands now?

[Moe Szyslak]

:lol: the look on the guys face who asked the question as Bush answered it.

[American Psycho]

If I were Bush I would stand up and say John McCain wants me to be the next President.He probably doesn't realize JM said that.

Do either of you really believe McCain means it?

[fallout]

I am playing online poker and got up for a G&T and passed the TV. All I heard was that GWB said he increased the wetlands by 3 million. So I guess that means we have like, what, 3,000,008 wetlands now?

Where do you play?

ATGTP :roll:

[John F. Kennedy]

I thought labels meant something. Now Kerry has told me that's not true -- twice.

[Paddyboy1]

Partypoker.com

[fallout]

Partypoker.com

Excellent. Ring game or tournament?

[urysohn]

"I'm gonna be the President that believes in science".

Response: "That would have cost jobs."

Ouch.

[Lee Mellon]

Deer in the headlights. blink, blink, bapump, babump. Roadkill. Get it off to the side and let the traffic thru.

[Moe Szyslak]

I thought labels meant something. Now Kerry has told me that's not true -- twice.You should listen to Kerry.

[John F. Kennedy]

uh, oh. Kyoto lost 99-0 or so in the US Senate. Naughty, naughty.

[fallout]

How long do you think it takes Kerry to get his hair that way?

[Paddyboy1]

Not sure what ring game means. But I play the one where its no limit texas and you get a set amount of chips, top 3 cash for a price. I play either 10, 20 or 50 entry fee. LondonCaling is the callname. because I live by the river.

[Moe Szyslak]

How long do you think it takes Kerry to get his hair that way?The shape or the color, it probably took a few decades to get teh color.

[fallout]

Do people not think roll back tax cut = raise taxes?

[Moe Szyslak]

Do people not think roll back tax cut = raise taxes?Only if you are in the top 1-2%

[John F. Kennedy]

I thought labels meant something. Now Kerry has told me that's not true -- twice.You should listen to Kerry.
It's an experience, let me tell you.

woah. the cost of healthcare is too high? who knew?

[fallout]

Not sure what ring game means. But I play the one where its no limit texas and you get a set amount of chips, top 3 cash for a price. I play either 10, 20 or 50 entry fee. LondonCaling is the callname. because I live by the river.

We call those SnG (sit and go). Have you ever visitied the games section of this board?

[John F. Kennedy]

entrepenurial spirit and free health care. great combo.

[Happy Extinction]

xx

[American Psycho]

One talking head today said Kerry would make a play for African-American votes because he is not doing as well as Gore. Ain't seen nothing in that direction yet.

[fallout]

Do people not think roll back tax cut = raise taxes?Only if you are in the top 1-2%

Do you believe that?

That 99-98% will not have higher taxes under Kerry (let's ignore his tax cuts thing for now)?

[Paddyboy1]

No. have you ever been to a star trek convention?

[fallout]

Kerry can't pander.

Diet coke almost came out of my nose.

[fallout]

No. have you ever been to a star trek convention?

I have no interest in star trek. You seem to enjoy poker.

[Purple Monkey Dishwasher]

Kerry has mentioned Bermuda all through his candidacy. People who understand how offshore companies work know he is full it. He wants to make people think we are losing "Billions" of dollars because of "Bermuda."

He's an idiot on this one.

Newsflash": you aren't losing money because ACE is incorporated in Bermuda.

Your retirement lasted about as long as Ricky Williams'.

[Moe Szyslak]

Do people not think roll back tax cut = raise taxes?Only if you are in the top 1-2%

Do you believe that?

That 99-98% will not have higher taxes under Kerry (let's ignore his tax cuts thing for now)?I would pay more taxes for Bush to not be President, and I believe Kerry will not raise income taxes on the 99%. Overall, probably not.

[fallout]

Why does Kerry keep naming other people and what they think. Why not say what you think. Damn.

[fallout]

Do people not think roll back tax cut = raise taxes?Only if you are in the top 1-2%

Do you believe that?

That 99-98% will not have higher taxes under Kerry (let's ignore his tax cuts thing for now)?I would pay more taxes for Bush to not be President, and I believe Kerry will not raise income taxes on the 99%. Overall, probably not.

Probably not raise taxes? I'm not sure I understand your answer.

[fallout]

Almost an abortion question.

Kerry why not say what YOU THINK. It's called connecting. Michael J Fox thinks... blah blah blah.

[Happy Extinction]

xx

[John F. Kennedy]

liveblogging is thirsty work.

[fallout]

Bush: embryos are life.

I think this is a losing issue.

[Lee Mellon]

Newsflash": you aren't losing money because ACE is incorporated in Bermuda.
Perhaps not, but there sure was a nice funnel in the Caymans for Halliburton to trade in Iraq during the embargo.

[American Psycho]

Did I just hear Bush say that Dred Scott was an example of non-strict-constructionist justices?

[Happy Skunk]

I got Bush up by the following count:

10-9
10-9
8-10 (stuffed the moderator)
9-10
10-9
10-9

57-56

[American Psycho]

Kerry said I want justices to interpret the Constitution in accordance with the law. Isn't that 180 degrees out of line?

[John F. Kennedy]

Not a great answer on picking a USSC judge.

OK, where in the constitution is the word "abortion?" Did I miss a staff meeting?!

[American Psycho]

Not a great answer on picking a USSC judge.

OK, where in the constitution is the word "abortion?" Did I miss a staff meeting?!

I don't know whether this is a good or bad read, but I think it is here:

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

[John F. Kennedy]

OK, dads raping daughters. who could forget that issue.

Bush is evading the last question. correctly. "Tell me how you screwed up."

[Moe Szyslak]

Bush easily lost on the partial birth abortion rule.

[Moe Szyslak]

Does Kerry have to talk about his bad decisions?

[Aaron Brachowitz]

Pres. Bush please give 3 examples of wrong decisions -- how is this question allowed unless the counter-question to Kerry is the same thing. Unbelievable.

[Moe Szyslak]

Pres. Bush please give 3 examples of wrong decisions -- how is this question allowed unless the counter-question to Kerry is the same thing. Unbelievable.That question was unfair.

OH well, I like Kerry, fine by me.

[John F. Kennedy]

If you can't be partisan in elections, when can you?! It's ok. grab a beer.

[Moe Szyslak]

Not like it matters since neither would actually give 3 decisions.

[glenn]

Pres. Bush please give 3 examples of wrong decisions -- how is this question allowed unless the counter-question to Kerry is the same thing. Unbelievable.That question was unfair.

OH well, I like Kerry, fine by me.
liberal media.

[John F. Kennedy]

I read an interesting piece a few weeks ago suggesting that the media is not so much liberal as intensely partisan.

[Moe Szyslak]

Pres. Bush please give 3 examples of wrong decisions -- how is this question allowed unless the counter-question to Kerry is the same thing. Unbelievable.That question was unfair.

OH well, I like Kerry, fine by me.
liberal media. :crying:

Ahh, just go :beer:

[RTVA]

I'm joining this late, and of course I may be slightly biased as a Bush supporter, but here is my impression of what Kerry is doing....

It reminds me of a high school class president debate, and the incumbent is taking heat for things that are totally out of his control (ie, the school year went to July last year due to a month of snow days or something) and the challenger is making big promises that he can never deliver (ie, recess for 2 hrs a day and gourmet cafeteria food...). I mean, can Kerry really take credit for miraculously balancing the budget in 97? :roll: Combine a recession, 9/11, and a war, and go figure what happened to the surplus.

Given your obviously strong thoughts about abortion, does it matter at all how this debate goes?
No, not one iota. Just watching cause I'm interested in how it goes (and rooting for my candidate), but I'm definitely in the solidly decided column. (I'd have to vote for Keys over Obama if I were in that locale, even though he is, well, I don't know what he is.)

[Moe Szyslak]

Kerry won.

Bush is dumb.

[Happy Skunk]

God Bless

[Happy Skunk]

Kerry won.

Bush is dumb.

Bush won this one by a scosh.

[John F. Kennedy]

You could go the Mulan route and write in for Jack Ryan.

Finally, they've quit shouting. finally.

Thank you for liveblogging. Liveblogging, a BlackAdder Solutions Group company.

[Happy Skunk]

Nah,

Tie

[Moe Szyslak]

Nah,

TieClose, Kerry had the edge, maybe 55/45

[Happy Skunk]

Nah,

TieClose, Kerry had the edge, maybe 55/45

"Your wrong"

--Brad

[John F. Kennedy]

so you admit it. :D

[Dick the Bruiser]

Another Kerry blowout, I hope that audiance was not a sample of the average Missourian cuz they looked and sounded dumb.

[Happy Skunk]

Kerry was boring and repeated the same things he said last week. Bush seemed more relaxed and confident.

[Moe Szyslak]

Another Kerry blowout, I hope that audiance was not a sample of the average Missourian cuz they looked and sounded dumb.I wish I could disagree.

[RTVA]

Bush easily lost on the partial birth abortion rule.
His rebuttal was weak, but still think he won IMO. Glad he brought up the Unborn Victims vote, but wish he would have come back to it in the rebuttal. Unbelievable to me that anyone would vote against a law to make it a crime to kill an unborn baby during the commission of a crime...it's not even an abortion issue. Remember Laci and Conner? According to Kerry, only one victim. IIRC, there were two bodies that washed up on the shore.

[Jonas Grumby]

I won the debate, because after half an hour I went upstairs to start reading an excellent Neal Stephenson novel. Then, after an hour, I came back down to get your excellent analysis.

[Moe Szyslak]

Bush easily lost on the partial birth abortion rule.
His rebuttal was weak, but still think he won IMO. Glad he brought up the Unborn Victims vote, but wish he would have come back to it in the rebuttal. Unbelievable to me that anyone would vote against a law to make it a crime to kill an unborn baby during the commission of a crime...it's not even an abortion issue. Remember Laci and Conner? According to Kerry, only one victim. IIRC, there were two bodies that washed up on the shore.
Are you going to hold a mother responsible for murder if she has a miscarriage at 8 months?

[Happy Skunk]

Another Kerry blowout, I hope that audiance was not a sample of the average Missourian cuz they looked and sounded dumb.

Come on, don't be an idiot. Neither candifdate lost this one. At best it was kerry by a bit, at worst Bush by a bit.

I say Bush gained if only becuase he improved over last week. In this era of the apprentice, we like to see improvement week to week.

And Bush was more of a presence because of his Texas swagger.

[Happy Skunk]

Pat Buchanan agrees with me.

Phew.

[John F. Kennedy]

I won the debate, because after half an hour I went upstairs to start reading an excellent Neal Stephenson novel. Then, after an hour, I came back down to get your excellent analysis.

And now it's your turn to analyze the Stephenson novel for us. :lol:

[Dick the Bruiser]

Another Kerry blowout, I hope that audiance was not a sample of the average Missourian cuz they looked and sounded dumb.

Come on, don't be an idiot. Neither candifdate lost this one. At best it was kerry by a bit, at worst Bush by a bit.

I say Bush gained if only becuase he improved over last week. In this era of the apprentice, we like to see improvement week to week.

And Bush was more of a presence because of his Texas swagger.

I'm not sure if you're joking or not (too lazy to read prior posts) but it's not what the answer is, it's how you look when you're answering. Bush's answers seemed too prepared

[Jonas Grumby]

I won the debate, because after half an hour I went upstairs to start reading an excellent Neal Stephenson novel. Then, after an hour, I came back down to get your excellent analysis.

And now it's your turn to analyze the Stephenson novel for us. :lol:

Not done with it yet. Have you read any of these? It's a weird but entertaining mix of historical fiction and fantasy.

:argthreadhijackthingy:

[John F. Kennedy]

It's my thread, so I'll allow time for rebuttal.

I've read Zodiac, and have snow crash in storage -- unread.

[George W Bush]

Kerry blew the environmental question big time. He could have ripped Bush a new a$$hole with that softball. Jeez.

[Jonas Grumby]

It's my thread, so I'll allow time for rebuttal.

I've read Zodiac, and have snow crash in storage -- unread.

Snow Crash was excellent, how was Zodiac?

You're better at this than Charles Gibson.

[John F. Kennedy]

I thought Snow Crash was fun. An Eco-thriller.

.................................................. ...........................................
CORRECTION: Instapundit notes that Kyoto was beaten by only 97-0. Not the 99-0 I said. :oops;

I'm also a lot cheaper. sad.

[Moe Szyslak]

Who won Friday night's presidential debate?

a. President Bush (30%)
4,328


b. Senator Kerry (70%)
10,301


c. I did not watch (0%)
52


d. None of the above (0%)
31


14,712 total votes


www.foxnews.com

:lol:

[John F. Kennedy]

Yeah, the people who usually read indymedia have nothing better to do now. :judge:

[Moe Szyslak]

President Bush 16% 14147 votes

John Kerry 83% 73818 votes

Evenly matched 2% 1363 votes
Total: 89328 votes

www.cnn.com

:rofl:

[Moe Szyslak]

I actually thought bush did alot better than last time. It is interesting he did worse among the early poll results.

[American Psycho]

could be an organized ballot stuff

[Jonas Grumby]

Yahoo! has the same ridiculous edge for Kerry.

[John F. Kennedy]

probably doing it with left-handed mouse clicks.

[Jonas Grumby]

probably doing it with left-handed mouse clicks.

stewardesses! (something you can Google left-handed)

[John F. Kennedy]

JUST GOT THIS DEMOCRATIC EMAIL, URGING:

So, help spin for John Kerry . . . Vote in Online Polls!
National and local news organizations will be conducting online polls during
and after the debate asking for readers' opinions. Look for online polls at
these news websites, and make sure to vote in every one of them:
* CBS: http://www.cbsnews.com/
* CNN: http://www.cnn.com/
* Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/
* MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/
* Wall Street Journal: http://www.wsj.com/
* Akron Beacon-Journal: http://www.ohio.com/
* Atlanta Journal-Constitution: http://www.ajc.com/
* Detroit News: http://www.detnews.com/
* Los Angeles Times: http://www.latimes.com/
* Minneapolis-St. Paul Star-Tribune: http://www.startribune.com/
* Orlando Sentinel: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/
* Philadelphia Inquirer: http://www.philly.com/
* South Florida Sun-Sentinel: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/
* Tennessean: www.tennessean.com
* Knoxville News-Sentinel: www.knoxnews.com
* Commercial Appeal: www.commercialappeal.com

So there you are!

instapundit.

And an ABC memo, remarkably from today via Drudge:


Halperin Memo Dated Friday October 8, 2004

It goes without saying that the stakes are getting very high for the country and the campaigns - and our responsibilities become quite grave

I do not want to set off (sp?) and endless colloquy that none of us have time for today - nor do I want to stifle one. Please respond if you feel you can advance the discussion.

The New York Times (Nagourney/Stevenson) and Howard Fineman on the web both make the same point today: the current Bush attacks on Kerry involve distortions and taking things out of context in a way that goes beyond what Kerry has done.

Kerry distorts, takes out of context, and mistakes all the time, but these are not central to his efforts to win.

We have a responsibility to hold both sides accountable to the public interest, but that doesn't mean we reflexively and artificially hold both sides "equally" accountable when the facts don't warrant that.

I'm sure many of you have this week felt the stepped up Bush efforts to complain about our coverage. This is all part of their efforts to get away with as much as possible with the stepped up, renewed efforts to win the election by destroying Senator Kerry at least partly through distortions.

It's up to Kerry to defend himself, of course. But as one of the few news organizations with the skill and strength to help voters evaluate what the candidates are saying to serve the public interest. Now is the time for all of us to step up and do that right.


Perhaps CBS isn't in that elite group any longer. Perhaps ABC won't be for long. At least they've written their own death warrant, and are maybe being honest for the first time.

[Moe Szyslak]

:crying:

[John F. Kennedy]

:bighug:

[Moe Szyslak]

Kerry in St. Louis after the debate "we got a problem, Cards-Red sox in the world series" :lol:

[Moe Szyslak]

:lol:

Bush said about 20 words in his speech afterwords, and the media had to cut kerry short because they were giving them equal time. Kerry had just begun speaking. what a rip off for all those who were waiting for bush.

[Happy Skunk]

Another Kerry blowout, I hope that audiance was not a sample of the average Missourian cuz they looked and sounded dumb.

Come on, don't be an idiot. Neither candifdate lost this one. At best it was kerry by a bit, at worst Bush by a bit.

I say Bush gained if only becuase he improved over last week. In this era of the apprentice, we like to see improvement week to week.

And Bush was more of a presence because of his Texas swagger.

I'm not sure if you're joking or not (too lazy to read prior posts) but it's not what the answer is, it's how you look when you're answering. Bush's answers seemed too prepared


MSNBS poll: Who won?

Pres. Bush
33%
Sen. Kerry
67%

Guess I'm the idiot.

[Griffin 2]

ABC News:
Kerry 44%
Bush 41
Tie 13

About equal numbers of partisans tuned in — 35 percent of viewers were Democrats, 32 percent Republicans and 29 percent independents. And few minds were changed: Viewers divided by 50 percent to 47 percent between Kerry and Bush before the debate, and by an almost identical 50 percent to 48 percent after it.

That's customarily the case in immediate post-debate polls; debates, at least in the first blush, tend more to reinforce viewers' pre-existing perceptions than to change them.

[fallout]

ABC News:
Kerry 44%
Bush 41
Tie 13

About equal numbers of partisans tuned in — 35 percent of viewers were Democrats, 32 percent Republicans and 29 percent independents. And few minds were changed: Viewers divided by 50 percent to 47 percent between Kerry and Bush before the debate, and by an almost identical 50 percent to 48 percent after it.

That's customarily the case in immediate post-debate polls; debates, at least in the first blush, tend more to reinforce viewers' pre-existing perceptions than to change them.


Does anyone really believe 29% of the people watching last night were independants?

[Griffin 7]

I believe that 29% of those watching claim to be independant.

[Moe Szyslak]

I believe that 29% of those watching claim to be independant. :horse:

[Jonas Grumby]

:viola:

[Jonas Grumby]

ABC News:
Kerry 44%
Bush 41
Tie 13

About equal numbers of partisans tuned in — 35 percent of viewers were Democrats, 32 percent Republicans and 29 percent independents. And few minds were changed: Viewers divided by 50 percent to 47 percent between Kerry and Bush before the debate, and by an almost identical 50 percent to 48 percent after it.

That's customarily the case in immediate post-debate polls; debates, at least in the first blush, tend more to reinforce viewers' pre-existing perceptions than to change them.


Does anyone really believe 29% of the people watching last night were independants?

I think there are a lot of people who tell others (and maybe themselves) that they're "independent" and yet they end up voting 95% of the time with the same party. So I agree that 29% of the people watching last night weren't independent.

[Griffin 7]

I believe that 29% of those watching claim to be independant. :horse:So what's the purpose of this "Beating a Dead Horse" thing? Doesn't that describe this whole topic area? Or does applying the thing to particular statements just mean that the applier knows that the statement is true?

[Westley]

Thought it was mostly a tie. Bush looked too angry at the beginning, Kerry seemed to actually waffle on Iraq just over the course of the debate, and the Bush grammar gaffes seemed worse than normal - increasing wetlands by 3 million, internets, a couple other that made me laugh out loud, both had some pretty obvious dodges on abortion and a couple others. The wetlands answer - pretty clever because whatever you say, you can't call him a liar for it. "Oh, he meant 3 million square inches - we added on a new alligator pen to the National Zoo"

[fallout]

cnn.com is calling the second debate a tie.

I think a tie is good enough for W. Getting killed again would be a problem.

[John F. Kerry]

increasing wetlands by 3 millionI caught that too. 3M what? Acres? Square miles? I bet he doesn't know. I also liked the way he referenced Robert Ruben without saying who he was...

[John F. Kennedy]

:judge: This is deadblogging. the debate ended like yesterday. And anyone who's anyone knows who Robert Rubin is. In political circles, explainig it would be as big a faux pas as invoking Madonna's full name, whatever it is.

[Jonas Grumby]

:judge: This is deadblogging. the debate ended like yesterday. And anyone who's anyone knows who Robert Rubin is. In political circles, explainig it would be as big a faux pas as invoking Madonna's full name, whatever it is.

I think invoking Madonna Ciccione would be a faux pas in any circles. Not sure why she'd come up in political circles, though.

[John F. Kennedy]

might as well reuse the thread. Save the pixels!!

[American Psycho]

GWB goes to red tie. What does it mean?

[John F. Kennedy]

SOME-BO-DY didn't prepare for the flu question. That would be Kerry.

[American Psycho]

True, but did you hear Bush talk about importing flu vaccine from Canada?

[John F. Kerry]

SOME-BO-DY didn't prepare for the flu question. That would be Kerry.interesting take. i thought Kerry had a nice answer and W sounded caught off guard. I will admit that Kerry didn't answer the question exactly, but Bush kind of stumbled around a lot.

[John F. Kerry]

was anyone else annoyed that the first question was not a domestic issue?

[American Psycho]

was anyone else annoyed that the first question was not a domestic issue?

Maybe not annoyed, but I was certainly aware that the discussion was quickly about the war on terror.

[John F. Kerry]

was anyone else annoyed that the first question was not a domestic issue?

Maybe not annoyed, but I was certainly aware that the discussion was quickly about the war on terror.I'm glad they got off that, i already know about their positions on that.

[American Psycho]

Networks seem to be single screen. C-span is all split screen.

[John F. Kerry]

Soprano reference!

[American Psycho]

Elite HBO-watchers!

[John F. Kerry]

Networks seem to be single screen. C-span is all split screen.network had split screen a lot too.

[American Psycho]

On split creen Bush grins when Kerry says Boeing

[John F. Kennedy]

Bush stood up for the poor steelworkers in West Virginia and we all agreed it was a bad call.

Kerry didn't learn from this.

[Dick the Bruiser]

Joke that wasn't a joke - ouch

[John F. Kerry]

does Bush thinks all these jokes about "kennedy being the conservative senator" play well? do they? they just seem like school yard tactics to me and make him seem incapable of anything but name-calling...

[John F. Kerry]

kerry is blowing the gay question...wait, maybe he's coming around now....ok, that's a little better

[John F. Kennedy]

Who knew Dick Cheney's daughter was gay?!

[John F. Kerry]

the states have the say over marriage! this amendment talk is rubbish

[Dick the Bruiser]

He looked really dorky when he said that and then laughed at his own joke when no one else laughed

(Bush's bad joke)

[The Waiting Hurts]

kerry blew the gay question...wait, maybe he's coming around now....oh no nevermind.
Here I fixed that.

[John F. Kerry]

Who knew Dick Cheney's daughter was gay?!You're joking, right?

[Moe Szyslak]

does Bush thinks all these jokes about "kennedy being the conservative senator" play well? do they? they just seem like school yard tactics to me and make him seem incapable of anything but name-calling...I was wondering if calling Kerry a liberal might be a bad decision in a domestic policy debate. People watching intently here are the unemployed, the elderly, the ones Kerry's policies will talk to. Bush telling people Kerry is going to give them more government benefits than he will is just stupid.

[American Psycho]

Kerry tries to win women (Roe) without losing church-goers (I am a Catholic with faith). Is this credible?

[John F. Kerry]

kerry blew the gay question...wait, maybe he's coming around now....oh no nevermind.
Here I fixed that.Thanks!

[John F. Kennedy]

that's silly. states have control over gay marriage => Federal courts have control over gay marriage. Inevitably.

[Moe Szyslak]

Kerry tries to win women (Roe) without losing church-goers (I am a Catholic with faith). Is this credible?Yes.

[John F. Kerry]

Kerry tries to win women (Roe) without losing church-goers (I am a Catholic with faith). Is this credible?who cares? those single issue voters have already made up their mind. no one else cares about this.

[American Psycho]

Abstinence, adoption and "maternity group homes" -- that'll cut down abortions -- by what? 4%?

[John F. Kerry]

Is Bush cracking a lot more jokes tonight?

[American Psycho]

Kerry tries to win women (Roe) without losing church-goers (I am a Catholic with faith). Is this credible?who cares? those single issue voters have already made up their mind. no one else cares about this.

Women are hardly a single-issue group.

[American Psycho]

Is Bush cracking a lot more jokes tonight?Or just cracking?

[The Waiting Hurts]

I can't wait for my health care savings account...will I be able to link it to my checking account.

[American Psycho]

Bush stronger than first debate -- not at a loss of words -- no deer in the headlights yet.

[John F. Kerry]

Kerry tries to win women (Roe) without losing church-goers (I am a Catholic with faith). Is this credible?who cares? those single issue voters have already made up their mind. no one else cares about this.

Women are hardly a single-issue group.I didn't say that. I said the only people that care about that question are. many of them are men, I'm sure. Everyone else makes up their mind on other issues.

[American Psycho]

I didn't say that. I said the only people that care about that question are. many of them are men, I'm sure. Everyone else makes up their mind on other issues.Is it fair for me to assume that youmena that abortion vs choice is, by this late date, a non-issue because no minds will change?

[John F. Kerry]

Bush stronger than first debate -- not at a loss of words -- no deer in the headlights yet.maybe that was his strategery - look so inept in the first debate that he will look much better in the following debate.

[chucky almendinger]

three highlights for me:

1..THEY'RE DRESSED EXACTLY ALIKE!! DOWN TO THE TIE AND THE FLAG PIN!!

2. "I'm not getting my flu shot"

3. "In a nanosecond"

[John F. Kerry]

I didn't say that. I said the only people that care about that question are. many of them are men, I'm sure. Everyone else makes up their mind on other issues.Is it fair for me to assume that youmena that abortion vs choice is, by this late date, a non-issue because no minds will change?yes, i think that's what i was trying to say.

[American Psycho]

What's with Bush's lip line when he is listening?

[The Waiting Hurts]

What's with Bush's lip line when he is listening?
It helps him concentrate.

[John F. Kennedy]

I know people who will be out of work after Kerry takes medicare for kids away from the states.

I hope they're listening.

[John F. Kerry]

What's with Bush's lip line when he is listening?
It helps him concentrate.He's saying to himself "nuclear."

Another joke! What's with him?

[The Waiting Hurts]

Oh...nevermind. Anyway?

WHHHHHHAAAAA?!!!!
:lol:

[Tim><]

How on earth does this candidate think that we can offer the same plans that are afforded to high income congressmen to a low income unemployed population, and that this will result in a savings due to more competition?

[The Waiting Hurts]

Our healthcare system is the envy of the world. :rofl:

[John F. Kennedy]

If the audience were allowed to react, I bet they would.

Bush needs an audience.

[John F. Kerry]

tim must work for the republican machine, parsing Kerry's words like that in his signature....

[John F. Kennedy]

Our healthcare system is the envy of the world. :rofl:
Canadians come to America for surgery.

[John F. Kerry]

If the audience were allowed to react, I bet they would.
with a groan, you mean? or maybe polite laughter?
Bush needs an audience.Why? Can't he talk about his ideas without people cheering for him?

[John F. Kennedy]

Is it a sin to be a people person?

[John F. Kerry]

Our healthcare system is the envy of the world. :rofl:
Canadians come to America for surgery.is that the "system"?

[American Psycho]

Compound interest -- the magic elixir -- tell your actuary friends about it.

[John F. Kennedy]

Our healthcare system is the envy of the world. :rofl:
Canadians come to America for surgery.is that the "system"?

It's a result of their state-owned system.

[John F. Kennedy]

paygo = S***w the young folks.

[Tim><]

Tax cut would have saved social security until 2075? :rofl:

[John F. Kennedy]

do nothing until the problem surfaces, and then adjust.

tax hikes?

[American Psycho]

Most of the tax cuts went to low and middle income Americans.

Huh?