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Numbers Nerd
10-18-2004, 11:38 PM
How many times have you opened 2C with your balanced 23-count, heard partner bid 2NT, and wondered, “Rats, now I don’t get to play the hand. I wonder what the turkey has this time!”

How many times have you opened 2C with your balanced 23-count, heard partner bid 2S, and wondered “Hey, we play transfers over 2NT, turkey. How good is your suit, anyway? Now I don’t get to play the hand!”

How many times have you had a 1-point hand, heard partner open 2C, and thought to yourself “On no! Partner always overbids these things! How can I slow him down???”

Well, complain no more. Here is a system that imposes a bit of structure on your partner, so that you can have more have confidence about how high to bid on your strong hands. For many years, I have played the following response system to a strong 2C opener. I can tell you it works.

2D = positive response. Game forcing. Says nothing about diamonds. Minimum of a king or two queens
2H = bad hand. Less than a king.
2S = Five or more spades, including 2 of the top 3 honors
2NT = Five or more hearts, including 2 of the top 3 honors
3C = Five or more clubs, including 2 of the top 3 honors
3D = Five or more diamonds, including 2 of the top 3 honors
3H = Solid six-card or longer heart suit
3S = Solid six-card or longer spade suit

The only time it gets tricky is when responder bids 2NT showing hearts. Now you can bid 3H to “raise” him! Or bid 3NT with a typical balanced hand with only 2 hearts. Partner can then bid on if he has extras.

Note, the auction 2C - 2H - 2S - 3 any - 3S, is not game forcing. You and your partner should discuss how high the various auctions force.

BC
10-19-2004, 11:59 AM
Personally, I like some sort of system of control responses, just because I think that's what opener needs to hear if they don't have a NT hand, and if they do, then it doesn't matter what happens this round.

That said, however, has anyone ever tried combining a weak and strong set of bids into a system, such as:

2C - Either D preemept, C 1-suiter, strong NT w/decent club suit, C+H 2-suiter, or C+S 2-suiter.

Partner is expected to bid 2D, after which 2H shows C+H, 2S shows C+S, 3C shows C only, 2NT shows strong NT bid with a decent club suit, and pass shows preempt.

Then, similarly, 2D shows either H preempt, D 1-suiter, strong NT w/decent diamond suit, D+S 2-suiter, or D+C 2-suiter;

2H shows a S preempt, H 1-suiter, strong NT w/o a good minor suit, H+C 2-suiter (presumably better H than C) or H+D 2-suiter; and

2S shows a C preempt, S 1-suiter, S+D 2-suiter (presumably better S than D) or S+H 2-suiter.

Any thoughts?

MNBridge
11-22-2004, 11:44 AM
OK thought this was a good hand for this thread:

:sp: KT2
:ht: AK
:dm: J
:cl: AKJxxxx

Question 1: Do you open this 2 clubs?

If so what is your bid over 2:dm:?

BC
11-22-2004, 11:49 AM
OK thought this was a good hand for this thread:

:sp: KT2
:ht: AK
:dm: J
:cl: AKJxxxx

Question 1: Do you open this 2 clubs?

If so what is your bid over 2:dm:?

Personally, I think it's just a bit weak to open 2:cl:, so I open 1:cl: and hope not to be passed out.

MNBridge
11-22-2004, 11:52 AM
Personally, I think it's just a bit weak to open 2:cl:, so I open 1:cl: and hope not to be passed out.

P now bids 1 :ht:

P's hand if you want to see - Not positive this is perfect
sp - xxx
ht - Qxxx
dm - AKxx
cl - Qx

BC
11-22-2004, 12:07 PM
Haven't looked at the hand yet, but I'm tempted to manufacture a 2:sp: bid here.

Klaymen
11-22-2004, 02:54 PM
That's the hand I had, alright. I agree that the hand is a bit too shabby for 2:cl: in my opinion. I would open 1:cl: and rebid 3NT if partner responds 1:dm: and 3:cl: otherwise.

BC
11-22-2004, 03:18 PM
That's the hand I had, alright. I agree that the hand is a bit too shabby for 2:cl: in my opinion. I would open 1:cl: and rebid 3NT if partner responds 1:dm: and 3:cl: otherwise.

I agree with 3NT after 1:dm: response. For me, 3:cl: was a close second choice against 1:ht:, just because it's not forcing. After 1:sp:, I'm really stuck; I can't seem to show weak support for his suit, force to game, and keep 3NT in the mix all at the same time... do I manufacture a 2:ht: reverse? Blech...

Klaymen
11-22-2004, 03:37 PM
3!C does the job, it shows extra values. True, you have a LOT of extra values. Partner still has a chance to show diamonds with 3:dm: But it's still possible that the hand belongs in 5:cl: or 3:cl:. My hand could be as useless as:

:sp: Qxx
:ht: Jxxx
:dm: Kxxxx
:cl: xx

Been There Done That
11-22-2004, 04:15 PM
The problem with 3 clubs is that partner with:

Jx
Txxxx
QTx
xxx

having dredged up one bid already will certainly pass, cold for 3NT.

By the way, one of the advantages of the proposed responses to 2C is the ability in some cases to stop in 2 hearts.

4sigma
11-22-2004, 04:59 PM
I would not have dredged up a response with that hand. :o

I agree with the 1C opening, though it is close. I also manufacture a 2S bid over partner's 1H. This will force us to 3NT or higher, no matter what partner has dredged up. We are still allowed to stop in 4C. I have an awesome 18 HCP and am not afraid to play 4C opposite virtually anything that could respond to 1C.

Klaymen
11-22-2004, 05:05 PM
I would not have dredged up a response with that hand. :o

Agree; I can tolerate clubs so the sooner I pass, the sooner partner gets the hint.

4sigma
11-22-2004, 07:05 PM
I would not have dredged up a response with that hand. :o

Agree; I can tolerate clubs so the sooner I pass, the sooner partner gets the hint.

This reminds me of a story about a pair that was playing Precision. Opener started with 1C, and responder held xx xxx xx J9xxxx. He passed the forcing 1C. It was the only time the pair ever played a contract in 1C. I don't recall what opener held, but it was a good board for them, as the pairs playing Standard American couldn't stop in 1C either -- I think the strong hand was a balanced 15-17 hand that would open 1D if playing a weak NT.

Been There Done That
11-22-2004, 07:30 PM
They were very lucky, the 1C bidder could have had 12 tricks or more in his own hand. Passing 2 hearts is different because the big hand decides.

I agree with an initial 1C --- you do have four losers. But over 1 heart you sort of have to bid 2 spades.

Steve White
11-22-2004, 07:46 PM
I agree with 1C. Over 1H, definitely 2S. Over 1S, you would have an awful problem.

MNBridge
11-22-2004, 08:39 PM
OK now how would you expect the bidding to go for the whole hand (both sides)

Thanks for the input everyone! :D

:sp: KT2
:ht: AK
:dm: J
:cl: AKJxxxx

:sp: - xxx
:ht: - Qxxx
:dm: - AKxx
:cl: - Qx

Also curious does anyone bid 1:dm: over 1 :cl:?

Guess this ended up in the wrong thread :)

Klaymen
11-22-2004, 08:43 PM
The actual auction proceeded 2:cl: 2:dm: 3:cl: 3:dm: 3N 6N. When partner rebids 3N, I figure him for 5 clubs and 22 hcp. Does anyone prefer 4:cl: instead of 3N or am I being petty?

Steve White
11-22-2004, 09:31 PM
OK now how would you expect the bidding to go for the whole hand (both sides)
If you do stretch and open 2C, I would expect it to go as your auction actually did (unless by agreement 3D would be a second negative, then it's really hard to predict what happens later).

After 1C - 1H - 2S, again rather iffy. Perhaps - 2 NT - 3 C - 3D(?) - 3NT - 4NT (natural) - maybe pass, maybe more.

Also curious does anyone bid 1:dm: over 1 :cl:?
That's reasonable, and is Bridge World Standard (tho with a weaker hand you would bid the major immediately with 4-4).
Then 1C - 1D - 3NT - 4NT (natural) - maybe pass, maybe more

On both hands, if opener bids over 4NT, 5C is probably best, and then responder with the club Q should probably bid 6. It would not surprise me to miss this slam.

Steve White
11-22-2004, 09:34 PM
The actual auction proceeded 2:cl: 2:dm: 3:cl: 3:dm: 3N 6N. When partner rebids 3N, I figure him for 5 clubs and 22 hcp. Does anyone prefer 4:cl: instead of 3N or am I being petty?
I prefer 3NT; don't bypass the most likely game.

5 clubs and 22 points is unlikely. In a 5-4-3-1 pattern, usually bid the major next. In a 5-3-3-2 pattern, rebid 2NT, even with with a low doubleton.

John F. Kennedy
11-22-2004, 10:21 PM
That said, however, has anyone ever tried combining a weak and strong set of bids into a system, such as:

If I ever get my books out of storage, I'll dig up an intriguing article out of "The Transfer Principle" by Senior, which starts with multimeaning bids involving shape and distribution.

My bridge fantasy is to use 2D for hands which are easily described as balanced, 1-suited, 2-suited or 3-suited, and 2C for hands with odd shapes (6/4/3/0 comes to mind), generally with primary and secondary suits. But I haven't developed it.