Baby Walkers

[Me]

You know, those things with wheels on your toddler can sit in and push themselves around. Usually they've got trays for toys or cheerios or whatever.

Best invention ever or worst safety hazard to toddlers? Anybody got any strong opinions?

[Ranger]

I used them for my 4 kids.
I thought they were great.
They allowed the kid to be in the kitchen with mom - but they couldn't open the cupboards and pull everything out due to their frame. Kid could get around - eat snacks. But mom had free hands to do things.

The overhyped problem was poor decisions by the parents- putting a kid in one on top of a stair case.

Once again - a wonderful product gets bad-mouthed due to a few over publicized bad decisions.


p.s. anyone got opinions on lawn darts??

[Anonymous]

Worst invention ever. I've seen reports that the child can move faster in them than a parent can. Also it elevates them. Gives one the nifty combination of a 1 year old who can go from standing across the room to grabbing a hot coffee off the table, before the parent can react (yes, even if they're watching).

Fun for going down stairs too.

[Griffin 1]

I agree with Ranger. Just about any problem with these walkers are due to improper use (much like the infant deaths from airbags).

[Me]

http://www.ynhh.org/pediatrics/prevention/baby_walkers.html

Found several things about them on the web, but the above is one of the few with stats I found interesting (as opposed to just saying "walkers bad"). I'll comment on what caught my attention later, but give others a chance to discuss first.

[The Mister]

On 2001-09-10 18:09, Me wrote:
I'll comment on what caught my attention later, but give others a chance to discuss first.

<font size=2>What the smoo are people doing putting a baby in a walker on the second floor without a secure baby gate in the first place?

[Anonymous]

Baby walkers are one of the worst safety hazards going. Here's my story...

My husband is a safety fanatic. There are fire extinguishers on every floor in our house. He won't let the kids eat cookie batter if it has raw eggs in it. Anyways, when our first child was about 9 months old, my husband was clearing the table after dinner. In the house we lived in, we kept the trash can on the landing above the basement stairs. There was a door between this landing and the kitchen. He had thrown trash away and pushed the door close, but the latch didn't catch. My daughter somehow got the door open and took a ride down those stairs and slid all the way across the floor and hit the wall on other side of the house. We were lucky. She stayed upright in the walker. But, if the walker had tipped she would have landed on a solid concrete floor. We threw the walker in the trash and never used another one.

[Oak Glaister]

It sounds like your safety fanatic needs to be more careful. If your daughter had been walking on her own, would she have managed to stay upright as she tumbled down the stairs? I doubt it.

[Patience]

Like them. OG I was thinking the same thing as I read that.

Also developes strength in the legs, doubles as a high chair, movement can be restricted to keep them closer to you, and it doesn't make them any taller than if they can pull themselves up. Actually not as tall since it restricts their movements.

[Traci]

I probably shouldn't post this under my real name - but I have a baby-walker horror story too.

I was 12 or 13 and babysitting. The baby was 9-10 months old. She was in the kitchen with me as I was making her lunch. We were a good 15-20 feet from the steps (no gate).

In a split second, she was across the floor. I ran for her but it was too late - she rolled down head over heels in that walker. To this day I have no idea how she did not break her neck. She was completely fine except for some bruises under her arms.

Now, granted, there should have been a gate, I should have been more careful, etc. etc.

But as any parent of a newly toddling baby knows - it is impossible to be 100% safe. Even if you do everything you can - that baby will find her way to trouble - in a way that you did not think of.

A problem with gates is that they sometimes do not hold - and if a baby crashes into one in a walker ...

Also - some parents use them outside - no steps, larger area, they think safer ... but it's the quickest trip to the middle of the street.

Even the most safety-conscious parents make mistakes - like not fully latching a door. We ALL have had bumps on their heads that we've kicked ourselves for. Hindsite is 20/20.

I totally disagree that it strengthens leg muscles in any beneficial way. My kids walked at 10 and 9 months and never set foot in a walker.

I would never have a baby in a walker - it's just not a risk worth taking.

[Me]

Here's what caught my attention in the link above:

i) 96% of accidents involved stairs and
ii) 69% with adults present

This says to me that if you a) live in a ranch house with no stairs, b) only keep the walker on the lowest level of the house, or c) never put your child into the walker without checking that your hardware-mounted gate is securely latched the risks are reduced by a factor of 25. The second part says to me that parents need to be aware that keeping a close eye on the kid in the walker isn't good enough when stairs are around.

IMHO, the other 4% of accidents seem to me like a good trade for keeping kids mobile while keeping them unable to bang there heads on corners, to put stray objects in theirs mouths, etc.

This message has been edited for grammar and to add a note saying why it was edited.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Me on 2001-09-11 10:00 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Me on 2001-09-11 10:01 ]</font>

[Anonymous]

Also developes strength in the legs

A few years ago, I heard that they actually make it harder for a child to walk because they become dependent upon leaning on the walker. Please tell me this was wrong, because I think they're great.

[Anonymous]

Why don't people just use exersaucers? They're not mobile and they have all the other benefits that the walker has, without the danger.

[The Mister]

On 2001-09-11 09:42, Traci wrote:
Also - some parents use them outside - no steps, larger area, they think safer ... but it's the quickest trip to the middle of the street.


<font size=2>Isn't that what back yards are for? :???:

_________________
<IMG SRC=http://www.jenkinsartworkshop.com/gj104.jpg>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The Mister on 2001-09-11 14:23 ]</font>

[Anonymous]

Why don't people just use exersaucers?


Personally, I never saw the point of those. Why not just put them in the play pen or the jumpy seat or something? I liked walkers because they allowed mobile children to remain mobile except surrounded by a protective plastic frame.

[Traci]

"""I heard that they actually make it harder for a child to walk because they become dependent upon leaning on the walker. """

I've read that too. I don't necessarily think they make it harder - but I do not believe they have any benefits wrt walking.

An exersaucer is a MUCH better alternative. All the benefits of a walker - but they don't move - please consider trading.

As far as back-yards go - I don't know about your neighborhood - but in mine, 90% of the homes around me have preschoolers - everyone just congregates in front and all the kids play together.

[Traci]

"""I never saw the point of [walkers]. Why not just put them in the play pen or the jumpy seat or something? """

It's all the same concept. A benefit of an exersaucer is that the baby can sit up without other assistance.

"""I liked walkers because they allowed mobile children to remain mobile except surrounded by a protective plastic frame."""

The point is that they are not so "protective".

[Anonymous]

On 2001-09-11 14:54, Traci wrote:
The point is that they are not so "protective".


They are if they aren't around stairs.

[Anonymous]

The ratio of annual accidents to annual number of walkers sold is 0.83%.

When my son was 7 or 8 mnths old, he climbed up to the second floor, then tumbled all the way down the stairs (I thought my husband was with him, my husband thought I was with him). Never would have happened if he had been in the walker.

[Anonymous]

So what you guys are saying is parents need to use leashes?

[Traci]

"""The point is that they are not so "protective".

They are if they aren't around stairs."""

I disagree. Not only are stairs a problem - but additional mobility combined with speed presents a host of dangers. Also I think walkers can give parents a false sense of security.

(You cannot say that the baby would not have fallen down the stairs if he had been in a walker - a walker might have made it an even greater disaster.)

Walkers make babies more mobile not only in distance but also in speed. And you would be surprised what they can reach when they put their minds to it!

Even in an exersaucer - they can maneuver one leg under themselves and practically stand up - a potential disaster when they're NOT moving - mobility only adds to the danger.

I'm just speaking from direct experience - my kids are still very small - so I'm using the newest in child-safety "stuff". And I've seen my kids do amazing things - climb up on things I never would have thought they could climb - open child-proof bottles - open cupboards with child-proof latches - open doors with child-proof knob-covers etc. They've done it all!

I think the problem is that these safety measures make us too confident sometimes - perhaps more likely to throw in one more load of laundery before going back to the other room with the baby.

Walker accidents are rare - but they do happen - and if there is a safer alternative (which there is) I see no reason to risk it.

[Anonymous]

Traci said: "Walker accidents are rare - but they do happen - and if there is a safer alternative (which there is) I see no reason to risk it."

The real question is, what is the frequency and severity of walker accidents vs what is the frequency and severity of the accidents walkers prevent.

It sounds like the vast majority of walker accidents, particularly the severe ones, involve stairs. If walkers are kept away from the possibility of stairs, we then need to compare the remaining accidents to protective measures. We don't appear to have any data on walker accident prevention. However, IMO a toddler in a walker on the lowest floor of a house has to be considerably safer than a toddler crawling around in the same area. If nothing else, we have the anecdotal evidence of the 8 month old climbing up a flight and tumbling back down. We may have to "agree to disagree" on this point if we can't find any actual statistics.

As far as the quote above, other than keeping kids completely immobile at all times, I don't know what the safer alternative could be.

[Traci]

"""The real question is, what is the frequency and severity of walker accidents vs what is the frequency and severity of the accidents walkers prevent. """

There is no accident that could be prevented by a walker that would not also be (even better) prevented with an exersaucer.

Again - it's just not a risk I would take.

But some might - some people risk taking a crying baby out of her carseat to comfort her for a few minutes - some people risk not vaccinating their kids ...

I chose not to cover the sharp corners of my furniture as my kids learned to walk (foam pads are sold for this purpose). As such - one of my girls ended up with a nasty bump that could have easily been prevented - but I didn't do it.

We all have to assess our levels of risk I guess. - And hope we don't have to learn about the safety issues the hard way.

[Anonymous]

Maybe we're missing each other a little. To me, exersaucer = confinement, immobility like a play pen or a baby swing. These are fine and safe things to use. However, I don't think it's possible to keep kids in things like that all the time. So my comparison is not walker vs. exersaucer. It is walker vs crawling around or starting to walk.

IMO, mobility is safer if surrounded by a walker and kept away from the possibility of stairs while immobility is always safer still. So to repeat my last post, other than always keeping your kids immobile, I don't see a safer alternative to walkers. Apparently you are saying that your sfer alternative IS to keep the kid immobile.

[Traci]

"""To me, exersaucer = confinement"""

mostly confining yes - they cannot move around the room. But they can turn in the seat and most have toys and such attached.

"""I don't see a safer alternative to walkers"""

I realize that you cannot always keep them immobile.

Exersaucers, swings, jumpseats, and such are used to keep them somewhat immobile - perhaps as you make dinner or something like that.

For the times when they ARE mobile - I still would never use a walker. They do nothing to assist with learning to walk - and might even hinder the process (although I'm not sure about that).

What I did was to baby-proof the house as much as possible - latches on cupboards, gates at stairs, covers on outlets, closing off rooms, etc. Even with all of that - they still manage to find ways to hurt themselves!

You can never leave a mobile child unattended - and I think one of the problems with walkers is that they give the illusion that it's okay to turn your back.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

I think it depends on the situation. If you have to do things that require your hands or require you to be at a specific location for some period of time, such that you can't hold a 6-12-month-old baby, or can't have someone else look after him/her, and you can't put off the project until later, then immobile is better.
I prefer mobile whenever possible, because on-the-job training is better. Due to their putting everything in their mouths (tasting is learning, sometimes the hard way), and finding the hardest/sharpest objects to ram their heads against, mobile babies have to be monitored. All the time.

[mayreeh]

We engaged in very limited use of the walkers with both our kids.

It worked great! My son used it for a whole day and a half -- figured out what the whole walking thing was about and converted over to the push walker rather than the traditional walker. (He walked at 11 months.)

My daughter got fed up with sitting immobile in the exersaucer while her brother could walk all around the room, so she used it more. Interesting enough, she started walking at 14 months. Did the walker impair her ability? Who knows....

I should point out that the walkers aren't that fast on thick carpet.

[anon789]

On 2001-09-12 18:44, Dr T Non-Fan wrote:
I think it depends on the situation. If you have to do things that require your hands or require you to be at a specific location for some period of time, such that you can't hold a 6-12-month-old baby, or can't have someone else look after him/her, and you can't put off the project until later, then immobile is better.

This is where the walker people are getting things wrong. In a walker the kid can move faster than you can react. Is that not clear? You're sitting there, hands free, just watching for something to happen, and you STILL can't stop the kid in a walker because they are faster than you.
Everything with kids has risks but this one has the deck already stacked against you in ways you can't correct for just by claiming to be a more vigilant parent.

[Anonymous]

I support walkers. And I get your point. However ,I also understand life. If I so protect my children that nothing can ever harm them, I will do greater damage to them. They need to get up and walk around. They need to skin their knees.

A walker is not perfect, but neither is life. I have used it, and will use it again on a floor with no descending stairs.

I like the advantage that it keeps kids out of the cupboards far better than those silly latches that small kids can figure out.

I will not put a hot cup of coffee on a coffee table - because I don't have one (a table, that is).

Do you get my points????

[The Mister]

On 2001-09-14 14:51, Anonymous wrote:
I support walkers. And I get your point. However ,I also understand life. If I so protect my children that nothing can ever harm them, I will do greater damage to them. They need to get up and walk around. They need to skin their knees.

...Do you get my points???

<font size=2>Hush, my baby. Baby, don't you cry.
Momma's gonna make all of your nightmares come true.
Momma's gonna put all of her fears into you.
Momma's gonna keep you right here under her wing.
She won't let you fly, but she might let you sing.
Momma's gonna keep Baby cozy and warm.
Ooo Babe, of course Momma's gonna help build a wall.

Hush, my baby. Baby, don't you cry.
Momma's gonna check out all your girlfriends for you.
Momma won't let anyone dirty get through.
Momma's gonna wait up until you get in.
Momma will always find out where you've been.
Momma's gonna keep Baby healthy and clean.
Oooo Babe.
Oooo Babe.
Ooo Babe, you'll always be Baby to me.

Mother, did it need to be so high?

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Yo, TM, what up? Are you deliberately trying to get music stuck in my head, or what?

To anon789: maybe I'm just faster than you. Or maybe I anticipate danger earlier than you do.
Or maybe I took the wheels off the walker.

[The Mister]

On 2001-09-14 16:57, Dr T Non-Fan wrote:
Yo, TM, what up? Are you deliberately trying to get music stuck in my head, or what?

To be honest? Yes. :cool:


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The Mister on 2001-09-14 17:00 ]</font>

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Pure evil, I tells ya. You oughtta put devil horns on that icon.

It's been one week....

[Han Solo]

You know, it has been scientifically proven that the only way to get rid of a song stuck in your head is to suceed in planting that song in another's head.

"And what you say about his company, is what you say about society.."

[The Mister]

...or just listen to something else.

Now playing:
"Even Less" by Porcupine Tree

[Dr T Non-Fan]

I can hear someone singing that, but it's so out of the rest of the song. It'll be an hour before I figure it out. Oh yeah -- Rush: "The world is, the world is..."

Two (four?) can play this game:
"Sky rockets in flight...."

[The Mister]

Quick Google search says Afternoon Delight by Starland Vocal Band, but I don't know if I've ever heard or heard of them.

...Just found a midi of the song, though. Ick! Don't want to get THAT one stuck in my head! BARF!

http://www.clinton.net/~sammy/starland.htm

(To inflict this pain on the rest of y'all.) :razz:

[Dr T Non-Fan]

I win, I win!

[Jack]

Homer looking at his tatoo:

"Starland Vocal Band, they suck!"

[Joined10MinBefore911Hit]

Those of you with perfect judgment who never spill milk and never have inexplicable lapses of attention should feel perfectly fine with walkers.

IMO, they offer many problems and few benefits.

[1695814]

We like to use a "super saucer". It's basically a "walker" without the wheels combined with a "johnny jumpup" without the cord strapped to the ceiling.

As an added bonus, you can use it to slide down the hills in winter. :o :D :roll: :crazy:

[Mauve'Bib]

We've always used an exersaucer. It's safer, and the kids were happy in it.

[Lucy]

I just let the babies crawl around on the floor. I figured the less mobile they are, the better, but of course you need to let them move around. When they crawl, they are a lot slower than their parents. Babies need to be supervised, of course, unless they are safely locked in their crib or playpen.

We didn't have any stairs in the apartment when the babies were small, so that wasn't an issue in either direction. Doors and cabinet locks work very well when the children are too small to walk. (We had high, difficult doorknobs, so they worked well until the kids were five, actually.) Surely your kids can't open a locked cabinet faster than you can grab them?? My kids liked to bang pots on the floor while I cooked. It kept them busy, and I knew exactly where they were even if I wasn't looking.