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[Anonymous]

Who is your favorite classical composer? Least favorite? (Neil Young does not count as a classical composer so don't even try to ruin this poll.)

Favorites
1) Bach - I can't get enough of orchestral suite number 2. Actually I can't imagine a composer writing as much with as much variety and maintaining the high level of creativity as J. S. Bach. Many of his peices were initialed S.D.G. I'll give a fake PD credit to someone who can guess what that means.

2) Orff - Everyone should have a copy of Carmina Burana.
3) Grieg - Everyone should have a copy a Peer Gynt.
4) Wagner
5) Aaron Copeland - Really American

Least Favorite
1) Berlioz - Except for the "March to the Scaffold" and "Dream of a Witches' Sabbath" the rest of Syphonie Fantastique is crap.
2) I can't stand Mozart.

Btw. I noticed that there was a John Williams composing for Star Wars II. Does anyone know if he is the same as the classical guitarist John Williams?

[Ben Kenobi]

The classical guitarist and the Star Wars composer are two different men. The Star Wars guy directed the Boston Pops for a fairly long time.

Good: Bach
Bad: Mozart

[Robert Zimmermann]

My favorite composer is definitely Händel (Handel, Haendel, Hendel as you like it).

Our baby loves Mozart!

[Han Solo]

Bach, Mozart, Handel - all favorites of mine, but you left out my true favorite - Beethoven. He has to be my number one.

I'll agree with you on Orff's Carmina Burana, but what else has he done?

I don't much care for Aaron Copeland. I've performed a couple of his works and they kinda sound the same to me.

[Maine-iac]

Favorites: Bach, Handel, Mozart, Tchaikovsky, Beethoven

Least Favorite: Mahler, Bartok

[Pseudolus]

I know I should like Wagner. He's probably good for me, like bran cereal and boiled fish. But he's just too ponderous for me.

Does Gershwin count under your definition of "classical"? As a melodist, he's up there with anyone. "Rhapsody in Blue", in particular, is deeply woven into my brain.

[Hanse]

Like: Bizet, Liszt, Tchaikovsky, Wagner

Don't like: Debussy

[Polly Nomial]

Lot's of votes for J.S. so far - but I must agree he's tops! I also like Vivaldi, Beethoven and Chopin.

I also have a special place in my heart for Erik Sati.

Although there are a number of composers I don't care for I couldn't call any of them my least favorite.

[egg]

I don't really listen to Classical Music that often, but it happens occassionally. When I do I like Hayden. My least favorite would probably be Biber.

[Pillow]

How could you not love the "Beef: It's what's for dinner." song? ;) I love Copland.

Anyone ever play Charles Ives stuff? Now there is a messed up composer! Each half of the band is in a different key!

[Ben Kenobi]

Does anyone know what Charles Ives's day job was?

His father used to do bizarre musical exercises with him, such as making him sing rounds with his brother, each in a different key. That explains how his musical ear ended up the way it did.

[Martin Frankel]

Charles Ives was an extremely successful insurance executive. One obscure detail about his career: he began his corporate life as an actuary. He worked in the actuarial department of a major New York life insurer (I forget which one) for about 2 years before deciding that he didn't care for it.

[Mel-o-rama]

Favorite composer: Beethoven by far. He was the most revolutionary composer who ever lived, and his music will survive for centuries!

Others: Prokofiev - I only wish the Russian government hadn't suppressed his talent, and it's a shame he died thinking he was a second rate composer.
Stravinsky - You can Rite of Spring me anytime.

Favorite living composers: Philip Glass and John Adams - They do minimalism good.
Joseph Schwartner - anyone ever heard of him?

Overrated: Mozart. He's good and I like his music, but he composed the exact same stuff his contemporaries did. Solieri and Clementi were just as good.

Don't like: John Cage (sham artist) and Steve Reich. I'd like to come out to show them.

And Charles Ives' day job? I know what that was. He was in our ranks. His music was also awesome. I only wish he didn't have to quit his composing.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

So, it's become "cool" (as cool as classical music can be, I guess) to slam Mozart? Very interesting.

[Cannonball]

I thought that Solieri was "the patron saint of mediocrity". Did the movie lie to me? :-?

[Anonymous]

It's not cool to slam Mozart. His style sounds very aristocratic to me.

[Ben Kenobi]

1) Yes, the movie lied, and framed Salieri to boot.
2) I have been a Mozart non-fan since I was knee-high to a grasshopper. I don't dislike him nearly as much as I once did, if that's any consolation.

[Anonymous]

Btw Gershwin does count. Good call.

Also Chopin was a good call.

Not a lot of Wagner fans out there.

[Martin Frankel]

Mel-o,

I have no intention of quibbling with your personal opinion--or anyone else's--about music, but I have to take issue with your calling John Cage a "scam artist." I'm not sure what you actually meant, but you clearly intended the phrase as an insult. Here are several possible interpretations, and my response to each.

1. He lacked talent for "composition" in the conventional sense.
I would disagree. If you listen to the music he wrote in the Forties and early Fifties, before he adopted an essentially aleatoric approach to composition and performance, I think you'll find imagination and an acute sensitivity to timbre, rhythm, and melody.

2. He lacked personal conviction in his own work, composing as a joke, or a pose, or a "scam".
Of course, one can never be sure of such things, but I very much doubt it. Keep in mind that Cage endured, for 50+ years, a standard of living which by American standards can accurately be referred to as poverty. That's a steep price to pay for the privilege of maintaining a joke.

3. He fraudulently assumed the mantle of a great composer or great artist.
This is not true. Shortly before his death, I had the pleasure of meeting and working with him several times. (Among other things, we did a radio broadcast in which I performed some of his pieces). His manner was gentle, pleasant, modest, and unassuming. Absolutely no trace of egotism, self-importance, or the desire to intimidate. He was one of the good guys.

I'll confess that I'm not a big fan of his finished products. But he remains an interesting figure, and he does not deserve the epithet you gave him.

[Anonymous]

Mr. Frankel, what is your opinion of Bernard Herrmann?

[Martin Frankel]

I don't know much about Hermann. I thought he was a Hollywood film composer. Did he write other things?

I'm eager to be educated if you think that Mr. Hermann is a worthwhile topic.

[Anonymous]

NPR had a series on the top 100 American musicians/composers a couple of years ago. They featured Hermann's Psycho soundtrack. I guess Hitchcock liked him because he could write a good peice of music on a low budget. Psycho only required four musicians. Anyway I bought Danny Elfman's adaptation and I liked it except for the stabbing bit. It's actually pretty unique.

It seems like a lot of movie music is really stringy and cliche.

[Mel-o-rama]

Mr. Frankel,

I must admit I was a bit harsh for calling him a "scam artist". And I will admit that I wish I could have met him. I saw a documentary on him that seemed to catch his personality very well. He really likes mushrooms.

I do like his early compositions. I liked his prepared piano pieces and other pieces that weren't aleatoric, but I always wondered why he stopped there.

I saw a "performance" of 4'33", and I enjoyed the experience. But the long moments of silence seemed to be more of an emperor's clothes type of thing. Listening to the sounds of the audience doesn't count as composing to me.

There was one composer who once declared that the age of analog instruments have passed and will become obsolete as the electronic music takes its place. I believe it was John Cage who said that, and I totally disagree. Many contemporary composers have shown many new sounds using an orchestra. An infinite number of possibilities still exist in that genre.

It has also been told that John Cage has been quoted as saying that the public will take whatever he gives us. That always came across as being a scam artist type of thing to say.

John Cage deserves the respect that's due to him, but as for me I'm just having trouble seeing the Emperor's new clothes.

[Healey]

Phantom:

SDG = Soli Deo Gloria. I heard the B minor Mass a couple of weeks ago live. Awesome.

#1 is definitely Bach, but William Byrd is a very close second in terms of construction. What he did with 4 (or more) voices and very strict rules of composition is astounding. To make the music work both horizontally and vertically is extremely difficult (I've tried it) and to make it actually interesting musically is nothing but a pure gift. It's a shame that most people think music started in 1685 and even worse that most music appreciation classes start there too. Renaissance polyphony is infinitely more interesting than the [expletive deleted] march to the scaffold, any Haydn symphony and even some things by Beethoven (sorry, not the most revolutionary composer -- by a long shot). Brahms is definitely on the list of quality composers.

Worst is a tough call. I've never gotten Mozart at all, but there are plenty of terrible composers.

Didn't Ives invent UL or something important like that?

[yoyo]

Careful now. Some of you are starting to hurt my feelings.

[Anonymous]

Berlioz is crap.

[openminded]

...

[Cynic]

Nobody mentioned Franz Schubert yet. Some of his works are outstanding (e.g. "Wanderer-Fantasie").

I also like Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Vivaldi, Chopin and Strauss. Each composer has his great and not so great works. It also depends on your mood when you listen to them.

[Healey]

It's sad that no one here has been exposed to music before 1700. After listening to romantic and baroque music, it is probably an acquired taste, but it is definitely worth the effort.

[Maine-iac]

Acutally, I'm quite a fan of early music. Nothing like a good sackbut! :)
I tend to think of early and Renaissance music as sort of a cross between classic and folk. Sort of.


But that's a whole 'nuther topic. :)

[Mel-o-rama]

It's sad that no one here has been exposed to music before 1700. After listening to romantic and baroque music, it is probably an acquired taste, but it is definitely worth the effort.

Oh yeah, there is some good music from the baroque and before that. They were speaking a different language back then when they worried less about chord progressions, and more about increasing the number of consenant sounds. And every voice had impeccable voice leading.

I guess the beginnings of the Classical period was a case of someone fixing something that they thought was "baroque." (Sorry, someone had to do it!) :x

[Ben Kenobi]

It's sad that no one here has been exposed to music before 1700. After listening to romantic and baroque music, it is probably an acquired taste, but it is definitely worth the effort.

Say what? As someone else noted, Renaissance polyphony rocks. So does Gregorian chant. Sackbuts sound like a goose with a bad cold :)

[Pseudolus]

A friend of mine in college was an early music major. She played recorder and some funky thing that looked like an arc-shaped recorder with a trumpet-type mouthpiece. Those didn't sound too bad, but the concerts she dragged me to usually featured shawms, which sound like giant, extra-loud kazoos. I could never remember the word "sackbut", so I just called them "shawm-bones". (That name actually started to catch on in the music school.)

[Mel-o-rama]

BTW, what kind of instruments are those in Monty Python's Holy Grail? Aren't those sackbuts?

[M.]

What country has produced the most great composers? I'm going with Russia.

[Robert Zimmermann]

Germany and Italy!!

[openminded]

...

[Drewby]

Hey - If it's not Baroque, don't fix it!

(I actually love Baroque music...the emotion, the passion...outstanding!)

[Mel-o-rama]

BTW, what kind of instruments are those in Monty Python's Holy Grail? Aren't those sackbuts?

Coconut shells if I remember correctly. I think they were "riding" them :wink: .

Actually, I was talking about the other instruments - you know when God announces the quest to King Arthur.

[Anonymous]

Someone wrote that each composer has his great and not so great works. Bach only has great works.

I was listening to Bach this week in the Big Horns in Wyoming. Fitting. "Sleepers Awake."

[Ben Kenobi]

We all do play the organ, organ, ever so clean and brightly.
We play the six sonatas, natas, ever so clear and sprightly.
We do not employ the swell expression shades
To manipulate them is, of course, forbidden
We play the foundations
On flutes and mutations
And this we heed, this we heed
To play the cantus firmus on a reed, on a reed
And all the other voices smoothly go along their way
And that's the way we play.

My mother majored in church music. You can sing that lyric to the obligatto line from "Sleepers Wake".

More ammo for 42's "Now we know why Obi is the way he is" campaign.

(For those who checked before, I emailed my mother, who gave me the correct two first lines. Ditto the ammo comment :))

[Anonymous]

I forgot to award Healey his fake PD credits. Healey I award thee 5 fake pd credits.

[Mel-o-rama]

Someone wrote that each composer has his great and not so great works. Bach only has great works.

I was listening to Bach this week in the Big Horns in Wyoming. Fitting. "Sleepers Awake."

I don't know. I've seen some organ works by Bach that are mediocre at least for him. Some of these seem to be thrown together quickly with notes going up and down and nowhere else. Even then, these pieces still "work".

At least I can say some works by Bach are greater than other works by Bach.

[Cynic]

What country has produced the most great composers? I'm going with Russia.

Germany, of course. Most of the great classical music are composed by the Germans.

[Mel-o-rama]

What country has produced the most great composers? I'm going with Russia.

Germany, of course. Most of the great classical music are composed by the Germans.

Those days have past. After Schoenberg, Webern, and Berg, what great composer has come out of Germany?

[Martin Frankel]

Mel-o,

None of those composers were German. :)

[Anonymous]

Ich denke das die gut Composeren (huh?) hat aus Deutschland oder Osterreich (Double huh?) gekommt!

Lassen Wir gesehen...

Bach, Liszt, Wagner, Mozart (wait, I have Mozart not liked), Beethoven, Handel, Haydn, Greig...

The killer is that they were all into French Composers who generally stink.

Entschuldigung das Pun und Mein poore Deutsche.

[Mel-o-rama]

Mel-o,

None of those composers were German. :)

Cool, then that strengthens my case. Now that we're on the subject, wasn't Mozart Austrian?

[Cynic]

I'm now into vocal music. After years of listening to instrumental, vocal is a nice change. For those who don't like Mozart's instrumental, try his vocal music. His Requiem is a class in itself (unfinished as it is).

[duodenum]

:rant: I've gotten a lot of flak in real life for hating Mozart. Everybody says, how could you not like him? Well it's simple. His music reminds me of those overtrimmed poodles with the stupid balls of hair at their feet, and I hate it. The poodles are so cute without those stupid haircuts, why did people have to go mutilate them? Why did Mozart do that to the music? Listening to Mozart's supposed to make you smarter, but it annoys me the way overly flirty whiny girls do. There is something pretentious and fake about it. I know I'm being mean. The music is some guy's life work and it's mean to insult a dead person. But it is what I think, and he is dead.

Almost every time I hear a classical piece that drives me nuts, it turns out to be him. Maybe I'm just not smart enough to process his music, or my head doesn't like following his patterns. I find them manipulative. UGH!
Oh and Herbert von Karajan's stuff sounds boring and mechanical to me. I don't know why some things that everybody else likes just clicks the wrong way in my head. I did listen to the requiem just now, it's more tolerable that most Mozart. The undercurrent that bugs me is still there, but fainter :(.

Bach is my favorite. I like getting lost in his songs.

And why does it matter what country produced the most great composers?

[Mel-o-rama]

Now Mozart isn't really that bad. He does write good music, but for some reason, every public radio station wants to play it at least 50% of the time. I guess when that dumb study was done a few years back, they decided that Mozart was the "smart" thing to play on the radio. If I remember correctly, they tested Mozart, Philip Glass, and some kind of rock music, and Mozart produced the best results. But did they test Beethoven, Prokofiev, or Bach? I think a lot of people got the wrong conclusions out of that stupid study!

[Cynic]

Now Mozart isn't really that bad. He does write good music, but for some reason, every public radio station wants to play it at least 50% of the time.

I agree. I'm sick of hearing Eine Kleine Nachtmusik and Symphony #40, First Movement! They're popular but are far from being his best, IMO.