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DrNO811
12-10-2004, 10:38 AM
I may be overlooking this, but where can I find which readings are considered CPCU readings? Since that's about 25% of the exam, I'd like to read those early enough that I can read them a second time later.

Sotally Tober
12-10-2004, 10:44 AM
They all have: "American Institute for Chartered Property Casualty Underwriters" in the reading description. Namely,


Malecki, D.S.; and Flitner, A.L., Commercial Liability Insurance and Risk Management (Fourth Edition),
Malecki, D.S.; Horn, R.C.; Wiening, E.A.; and Flitner, A.L., Commercial Liability Insurance and Risk Management (Third Edition),
Trupin, J.; and Flitner, A.L., Commercial Property Insurance and Risk Management
Webb, B.L.; Harrison, C.M.; and Markham, J.J., Insurance Operations and Regulation
Wiening, E. A.; Rejda, G. E.; Luthardt, C. M.; and Ferguson, C. L., Personal Insurance
Wiening, E.A.; and Malecki, D.S., Insurance Contract Analysis

And be sure to be wide awake when you begin reading. That way you'll make it 20 minutes before falling asleep. Otherwise, you're no good for more than 5 minutes. I'm so glad I don't have to read those anymore. Of course, Part 7 regulation is just as bad. Ugh.

DrNO811
12-10-2004, 10:59 AM
Thanks, ST.

jk
12-10-2004, 01:37 PM
And be sure to be wide awake when you begin reading. That way you'll make it 20 minutes before falling asleep. Otherwise, you're no good for more than 5 minutes."If a bird poops on a customer's head in the parking lot, this is covered under a general liability policy. However, if the parking lot is more than 100 yards from the policyholder's primary place of business, an exclusion applies. However, if the parking lot is more than 100 yards from the primary place of business but the two are connected by a covered walkway built of reinforced concrete within the last 10 years, this is an exception to the exclusion. However, if the bird was a member of the raptor family with a wingspan of at least 42 inches . . ."

Actuarian
12-10-2004, 01:38 PM
go to CAS online syllabus and hit CTRL+ F. Type in "Chartered". THe readings that are highligted are CPCU readings.

Sotally Tober
12-10-2004, 03:13 PM
And be sure to be wide awake when you begin reading. That way you'll make it 20 minutes before falling asleep. Otherwise, you're no good for more than 5 minutes."If a bird poops on a customer's head in the parking lot, this is covered under a general liability policy. However, if the parking lot is more than 100 yards from the policyholder's primary place of business, an exclusion applies. However, if the parking lot is more than 100 yards from the primary place of business but the two are connected by a covered walkway built of reinforced concrete within the last 10 years, this is an exception to the exclusion. However, if the bird was a member of the raptor family with a wingspan of at least 42 inches . . ."

What if this bird poops on some rare coins the guy is holding and they are deemed ruined? What if they are not his coins but belong to friend and they are only in his possession, but he is not a bailor? (Or is that bailee? I can never keep that straight) And he lives, and normally stores them, in an garage-apartment not for business use with one other person. And the owner of the coins is his brother, who is not the other resident in his apartment.

I HATE THAT MATERIAL!!!!!!!

jk
12-10-2004, 05:03 PM
And yet, compared to the equation-laden monographs of Course 4, it reads like a suspense novel.

Examinator
12-10-2004, 05:33 PM
I passed part 4 a year ago and am sitting for part 5 for the first time this spring. From the sounds of the CPCU stuff, I'd rather sit for course 4 five more times than read that crap.

Skantown
12-10-2004, 05:59 PM
Just wait until you get to Jones' Premium Trend paper. This thing is brutally mind-numbing.

Sotally Tober
12-12-2004, 12:10 AM
Just wait until you get to Jones' Premium Trend paper. This thing is brutally mind-numbing.

Which has to be a real nail-biter compared the the old ITV article on Part 5 by Head.

Salzmann
12-12-2004, 10:27 PM
And be sure to be wide awake when you begin reading. That way you'll make it 20 minutes before falling asleep. Otherwise, you're no good for more than 5 minutes."If a bird poops on a customer's head in the parking lot, this is covered under a general liability policy. However, if the parking lot is more than 100 yards from the policyholder's primary place of business, an exclusion applies. However, if the parking lot is more than 100 yards from the primary place of business but the two are connected by a covered walkway built of reinforced concrete within the last 10 years, this is an exception to the exclusion. However, if the bird was a member of the raptor family with a wingspan of at least 42 inches . . ."

What if this bird poops on some rare coins the guy is holding and they are deemed ruined? What if they are not his coins but belong to friend and they are only in his possession, but he is not a bailor? (Or is that bailee? I can never keep that straight) And he lives, and normally stores them, in an garage-apartment not for business use with one other person. And the owner of the coins is his brother, who is not the other resident in his apartment.

I HATE THAT MATERIAL!!!!!!!

LOL! I just passed CPCU 520 and it almost gets that bad. OTOH, I started on the CPCU exams a year ago and have 3 passed and 2 waived (one due to FCAS status, one because I took the INS series) with very little disruption to my personal life. You'll find it a lot less mentally taxing than the rest of the CAS syllabus (but don't tell the underwriters I said so).

Examinator
12-13-2004, 09:31 AM
I just finished up Jones' article and didn't find it that bad. I haven't started the discussion yet.

GefilteFish144
12-13-2004, 01:33 PM
LOL! I just passed CPCU 520 and it almost gets that bad. OTOH, I started on the CPCU exams a year ago and have 3 passed and 2 waived (one due to FCAS status, one because I took the INS series) with very little disruption to my personal life. You'll find it a lot less mentally taxing than the rest of the CAS syllabus (but don't tell the underwriters I said so).

Any underwriter knows that our exams our tougher -- they constantly wonder why we put ourselves through that kind of trouble when a CPCU has at least as good an earnings potential as an FCAS. Not only do they spend a lot less time studying, but they pass a higher percentage of people and you know the results instantly.

MNBridge
12-13-2004, 02:05 PM
....................-- they constantly wonder why we put ourselves through that kind of trouble when a CPCU has at least as good an earnings potential as an FCAS................. :o

Just curious. Where do you work (rhetorical question)?

GefilteFish144
12-13-2004, 03:04 PM
....................-- they constantly wonder why we put ourselves through that kind of trouble when a CPCU has at least as good an earnings potential as an FCAS................. :o

Just curious. Where do you work (rhetorical question)?

I'm not saying that all CPCU's do as well as FCAS. I'm just saying that there is the potential for making the big bucks, as CPCU's are more likely to become presidents and CFO's of P&C insurance companies. With a few exceptions actuaries generally don't make it past Chief Actuary. Of course in consulting the FCAS is far more valuable than the CPCU.

MNBridge
12-13-2004, 04:35 PM
I'm not saying that all CPCU's do as well as FCAS. I'm just saying that there is the potential for making the big bucks, as CPCU's are more likely to become presidents and CFO's of P&C insurance companies. With a few exceptions actuaries generally don't make it past Chief Actuary. Of course in consulting the FCAS is far more valuable than the CPCU.

Still going to have to disagree. Most Underwriters that I know that make big $'s also have a CAS designation (ACAS or FCAS).

Not trying to nitpick, I just think it is providing a huge disservice to those taking these exams. Especially those taking exam 5 or lower. I don't think telling them a CPCU designation is worth as much (Which I highly, highly disagree with) is going to give them the needed incentive to pass these things.

Many many people would disagree with you and I haven't seen anything salary surveys, etc. that would back up your statments.

I also see you wrote about presidents of companies. Do you really think that is a valid goal for most people? And I would be willing to bet any CPCU running a company has some very significant additional piece to their background. Finding ONE (or even 10) CPCU(s) who makes a lot of $'s does not give credibility to your argument. But as an actuary you know that.

For those who are taking exam 5 or lower, Keep chugging away, despite what the naysayers may tell you it IS worth it.

GefilteFish144
12-13-2004, 05:28 PM
I'll say this one last time. I did not say CPCU's made as much money as FCAS. I just said the potential was there. Sure, early on in one's career actuarial students make more than young underwriters. But later on in one's career, when promotions are based on merit rather than exam-passing, the underwriting managers can make at least as much money as actuarial managers.

That doesn't mean I'm not taking the actuarial exams. After all, I enjoy the technical aspects of the actuarial world that I could never enjoy as an underwriter. Other people will have their other reasons, besides the money, and nothing I write will discourage them.

MNBridge
12-13-2004, 05:35 PM
I did not say CPCU's made as much money as FCAS.

No you said

....................-- they constantly wonder why we put ourselves through that kind of trouble when a CPCU has at least as good an earnings potential as an FCAS.................

Which to me implies they make more. And certainly not less.

A high school dropout CAN make more than an actuary as well.

Though I would hope that most people would see the problem if I wrote:
They constantly wonder why we finish High Scool, go to college and take exams when ....... a High School Dropout has at least as good an earnings potential as an FCAS.................

GefilteFish144
12-14-2004, 09:31 AM
Many many many more CPCU's in management than high-school dropouts....