Visa denied: You're too Muslim

[Professor Donald Trump]

Tariq Ramadan, an intellectual influential among Muslims throughout Europe, said he had sent a letter of resignation earlier this week to University of Notre Dame in Indiana, where he had been due to take up a tenured post as professor of religion.


Ramadan was issued a U.S. visa last May, but it was revoked with little explanation in early August -- days before he was to move to the United States -- after the Department of Homeland Security changed its position.


Notre Dame, a Catholic university, said then it was "deeply disappointed and concerned," but was optimistic the issue would be resolved and Ramadan would be allowed to take up his post.


The withdrawal of the visa triggered protests in intellectual circles, and Ramadan said the U.S. authorities had encouraged him to re-apply.


He was interviewed in early October at the U.S. embassy in the Swiss capital, Berne, but had heard nothing since then and had now given up, he told Reuters.


"I sent a letter of resignation ... This has been extremely difficult for my family," said Ramadan, speaking in Geneva where he has lived in limbo with his wife and four children since their furniture was sent to South Bend, site of the university.


"The U.S. administration does not want my voice heard. I consider this an attack on academic freedom," he added.

Link (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&ncid=564&e=18&u=/nm/20041214/ts_nm/swiss_usa_ramadan_dc)

He probably had explosives hidden in his turbin.

[krank]

Maybe he was planning on taking pictures of the college campus...ever think of that

:duh:

[LossLimit]

This is like affirmative action. Did anyone actually say "you are too Muslim"? I've met quite a few people out there being denied visas even with jobs backing them up. It is not easy to get visas into the US.

[Titania]

He's being denied entry because his grandfather founded Islamic Brotherhood in Egypt, and his father was a member of that group. He is also rumored to have connections with "shady people."

Interestingly, the officials that "had to" deny him are urging him to reapply.

[Professor Donald Trump]

He's being denied entry because his grandfather founded Islamic Brotherhood in Egypt, and his father was a member of that group. He is also rumored to have connections with "shady people."

Interestingly, the officials that "had to" deny him are urging him to reapply.

Meanwhile the Bushes continue to invest with the "good" Bin Ladens.

You see, the war on terror is a big scam. Only goal? Keep you scared.

BOOGA!

[LossLimit]

I think they should first give "un"-shady people visas even if they are not famous. This country is in enough trouble trying to keep people who out who may one day cause them problems is NOT racism, it's wise.

[Titania]

His critics contend that he is two-faced...moderate and tolerant when talking to Western audiences, militant when talking to militant audiences.

[LossLimit]

Oh please! if they let him in and then he went and did something even a very very small scale 9-11 you would blame it on Bush for letting him in.

[Professor Donald Trump]

His critics contend that he is two-faced...moderate and tolerant when talking to Western audiences, militant when talking to militant audiences.

Who?
Bush?

[Titania]

He is a quasi-celebrity and one of the most recognized Muslim thinkers in Europe. He is being given a prestigious professorship at Notre Dame...it's not like this guy is going to come here and sink into the underground and wind up taking flight lessons or something.

This is a high profile person...if the intelligence community has good reason to be concerned, it's not like they're not going to be able to keep an eye on him...they're keeping an eye on him now, and he's not even in the country.

[Titania]

His critics contend that he is two-faced...moderate and tolerant when talking to Western audiences, militant when talking to militant audiences.

Who?
Bush?"Critics..." I don't know who that is...I was reading a piece on him in USN&WR. I assumed it was other notables in the European academia/intelligencia.

[Aaron Brachowitz]

Sounds like he's all the rage in Europe. Let him stay there.

[lou]

Hey, when the football team goes 6-5, there will be ramifications and repercussions.

[Titania]

Sounds like he's all the rage in Europe. Let him stay there.Right. No great thoughts or ideas ever came out of Europe.

[Aaron Brachowitz]

Sounds like he's all the rage in Europe. Let him stay there.Right. No great thoughts or ideas ever came out of Europe.
No, but the 9/11 hijackers did. Thanks, Europe! No, that's all right, you can keep this one!

[krank]

Sounds like he's all the rage in Europe. Let him stay there.Right. No great thoughts or ideas ever came out of Europe.
No, but the 9/11 hijackers did. Thanks, Europe! No, that's all right, you can keep this one!

I say we ban all travel to and from Europe

[LossLimit]

Sounds like he's all the rage in Europe. Let him stay there.Right. No great thoughts or ideas ever came out of Europe.
No, but the 9/11 hijackers did. Thanks, Europe! No, that's all right, you can keep this one!

I say we ban all travel to and from Europe

I say "not a bad idea".

[Titania]

Let's just build a 1,000 foot tall wall around the entire border of the country. That should do it.

[Tim><]

Let's just build a 1,000 foot tall wall around the entire border of the country. That should do it.

We're waiting for some people to go to Canada first.

[krank]

Sounds like he's all the rage in Europe. Let him stay there.Right. No great thoughts or ideas ever came out of Europe.
No, but the 9/11 hijackers did. Thanks, Europe! No, that's all right, you can keep this one!

I say we ban all travel to and from Europe

I say "not a bad idea".

finally we can feel safe

[Professor Donald Trump]

Sounds like he's all the rage in Europe. Let him stay there.Right. No great thoughts or ideas ever came out of Europe.
No, but the 9/11 hijackers did. Thanks, Europe! No, that's all right, you can keep this one!

Iraq is in Europe?

[Titania]

Sounds like he's all the rage in Europe. Let him stay there.Right. No great thoughts or ideas ever came out of Europe.
No, but the 9/11 hijackers did. Thanks, Europe! No, that's all right, you can keep this one!

Iraq is in Europe?No, but I think Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia are.

Iraq needed to be invaded because they had trade agreements with Europe.

:duh:

[Pseudolus]

"Your so Muslim, you probably think this jihad is about you."

[eminusipi]

maybe MasterCard to get.

[Samir]

Sounds like he's all the rage in Europe. Let him stay there.Right. No great thoughts or ideas ever came out of Europe.
No, but the 9/11 hijackers did. Thanks, Europe! No, that's all right, you can keep this one!

I say we ban all travel to and from Europe

I say "not a bad idea".

finally we can feel safe

from all the Timothy McVeighs here?

[Griffin 5]

from all the Timothy McVeighs here?I don't think that Tim McVeigh is much of a threat anymore.

[Aaron Brachowitz]

finally we can feel safe

from all the Timothy McVeighs here?
Let me know when the second Tim McVeigh attack is. I think the Islamo-fascist apologists in the American left go to sleep every night praying (in a very secular way, of course) for it.

[krank]

finally we can feel safe

from all the Timothy McVeighs here?
Let me know when the second Tim McVeigh attack is. I think the Islamo-fascist apologists in the American left go to sleep every night praying (in a very secular way, of course) for it.
yeah they are all praying for terror attacks...booga. Maybe they are praying for someone to invent a dirty bomb shoots mounds of porn at unsuspecting religious types...booga

[Professor Donald Trump]

finally we can feel safe

from all the Timothy McVeighs here?
Let me know when the second Tim McVeigh attack is. I think the Islamo-fascist apologists in the American left go to sleep every night praying (in a very secular way, of course) for it.

Remember the Sniper? He was a veteran like Tim McVeigh.
But the problem is Islam.

Fight terrorists wherever they be found?
But why you not bombing Tim McVeigh's home town?

[Aaron Brachowitz]

I remember the sniper. Tell me what political goals he was trying to achieve through violence. By definition, that's what a terrorist is. McVeigh had political motives. Islamic terrorists have political motives. The sniper did not.

[Truth Soldier]

Uh, I think you need to add some qualifiers to that.

[Zorro]

Islamic terrorists have political motives.
You're not rationalizing 9/11 are you?

[eminusipi]

I remember the sniper. Tell me what political goals he was trying to achieve through violence. By definition, that's what a terrorist is. McVeigh had political motives. Islamic terrorists have political motives. The sniper did not.

b------t. Spreading terror is of itself a political act.

[O. Hannah]

I remember the sniper. Tell me what political goals he was trying to achieve through violence. By definition, that's what a terrorist is. McVeigh had political motives. Islamic terrorists have political motives. The sniper did not.

b------t. Spreading terror is of itself a political act.

So when there was a spate of high profile shark attacks in FL and people were afraid to go in the water.....the sharks were making a political statement?

"Not in MY house, mammal!" - Joe Shark

[Professor Donald Trump]

I remember the sniper. Tell me what political goals he was trying to achieve through violence. By definition, that's what a terrorist is. McVeigh had political motives. Islamic terrorists have political motives. The sniper did not.

So what the sniper did was not terrorism.
What we are doing in Iraq IS terrorism.
Got it.

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

I remember the sniper. Tell me what political goals he was trying to achieve through violence. By definition, that's what a terrorist is. McVeigh had political motives. Islamic terrorists have political motives. The sniper did not.

b------t. Spreading terror is of itself a political act.

So when there was a spate of high profile shark attacks in FL and people were afraid to go in the water.....the sharks were making a political statement?

"Not in MY house, mammal!" - Joe Shark

:lol:

[glenn]

His critics contend that he is two-faced...moderate and tolerant when talking to Western audiences, militant when talking to militant audiences.

Who?
Bush?
No, she extrapolated. Like when you took the fact that he was given no reason why his visa was yanked, and somehow extrapolated that to mean 'he's too Muslim'.

[glenn]

BTW - entry into the US isn't a right. And for any non-American with a lick of sense, it shouldn't be assumed either.

[Professor Donald Trump]

His critics contend that he is two-faced...moderate and tolerant when talking to Western audiences, militant when talking to militant audiences.

Who?
Bush?
No, she extrapolated. Like when you took the fact that he was given no reason why his visa was yanked, and somehow extrapolated that to mean 'he's too Muslim'.

Oh, I know it's not that he's too Muslim.
The Bin Laden family is allowed to come and go, and they're Muslim.
I wonder what makes this guy more dangerous than a Bin Laden?
Who cares, just wave your flag!

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

finally we can feel safe

from all the Timothy McVeighs here?
Let me know when the second Tim McVeigh attack is. I think the Islamo-fascist apologists in the American left go to sleep every night praying (in a very secular way, of course) for it.

:lol: Exactly.

Now stand by for some breast-beating over how horrible wishing for violence is, and how they'd never do it, and how rushing to the computer to post whenever something violent happens that serves their political agenda is just a coincidence ...

[Professor Donald Trump]

finally we can feel safe

from all the Timothy McVeighs here?
Let me know when the second Tim McVeigh attack is. I think the Islamo-fascist apologists in the American left go to sleep every night praying (in a very secular way, of course) for it.

:lol: Exactly.

Now stand by for some breast-beating over how horrible wishing for violence is, and how they'd never do it, and how rushing to the computer to post whenever something violent happens that serves their political agenda is just a coincidence ...

Like that price of fighting for freedom thread that you complain so much about?

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

finally we can feel safe

from all the Timothy McVeighs here?
Let me know when the second Tim McVeigh attack is. I think the Islamo-fascist apologists in the American left go to sleep every night praying (in a very secular way, of course) for it.

:lol: Exactly.

Now stand by for some breast-beating over how horrible wishing for violence is, and how they'd never do it, and how rushing to the computer to post whenever something violent happens that serves their political agenda is just a coincidence ...

Like that price of fighting for freedom thread that you complain so much about?

I knew my intended audience would catch on.

[Professor Donald Trump]

finally we can feel safe

from all the Timothy McVeighs here?
Let me know when the second Tim McVeigh attack is. I think the Islamo-fascist apologists in the American left go to sleep every night praying (in a very secular way, of course) for it.

:lol: Exactly.

Now stand by for some breast-beating over how horrible wishing for violence is, and how they'd never do it, and how rushing to the computer to post whenever something violent happens that serves their political agenda is just a coincidence ...

Like that price of fighting for freedom thread that you complain so much about?

I knew my intended audience would catch on.

FYI - I started this thread.
:wink:

[LossLimit]

I remember the sniper. Tell me what political goals he was trying to achieve through violence. By definition, that's what a terrorist is. McVeigh had political motives. Islamic terrorists have political motives. The sniper did not.

By definition? Whos?

terrorist

adj : characteristic of someone who employs terrorism (especially as a political weapon); "terrorist activity"; "terrorist state" n : a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities


ter·ror·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr-rzm)
n.
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Basically if you "terrorize" you can be called a terrorist hardly anyone need be excluded.

[eminusipi]

I remember the sniper. Tell me what political goals he was trying to achieve through violence. By definition, that's what a terrorist is. McVeigh had political motives. Islamic terrorists have political motives. The sniper did not.

b------t. Spreading terror is of itself a political act.

So when there was a spate of high profile shark attacks in FL and people were afraid to go in the water.....the sharks were making a political statement?

"Not in MY house, mammal!" - Joe Shark

Just eating are sharks. News organizations to be making political statement. To be thanks for to play Final Jeopardy. What are the consolations prizes for the loser?

[Aaron Brachowitz]

terrorist

adj : characteristic of someone who employs terrorism (especially as a political weapon); "terrorist activity"; "terrorist state" n : a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities


ter·ror·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr-rzm)
n.
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Basically if you "terrorize" you can be called a terrorist hardly anyone need be excluded.
It's interesting that you think this definition counters what I said, namely that terrorism is the use of violence to achieve political goals.

[LossLimit]

You're right, I was just nit-picking.

[Professor Donald Trump]

terrorist

adj : characteristic of someone who employs terrorism (especially as a political weapon); "terrorist activity"; "terrorist state" n : a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities


ter·ror·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr-rzm)
n.
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Basically if you "terrorize" you can be called a terrorist hardly anyone need be excluded.
It's interesting that you think this definition counters what I said, namely that terrorism is the use of violence to achieve political goals.

So, what we're doing in Iraq is terrorism, too.

[Aaron Brachowitz]

So, what we're doing in Iraq is terrorism, too.
Yes, but only from the perspective of a complete idiot.

[Professor Donald Trump]

So, what we're doing in Iraq is terrorism, too.
Yes, but only from the perspective of a complete idiot.

Right. I am using YOUR definition, so I can't argue with you there.

[Aaron Brachowitz]

I know you are but what am I.

[Professor Donald Trump]

ter·ror·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr-rzm)
n.
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.



It's interesting that you think this definition counters what I said, namely that terrorism is the use of violence to achieve political goals.


SO, how is Iraq NOT terrorism, anyway?

[Aaron Brachowitz]

You need more help than I am able to provide. Good luck to you.

[Professor Donald Trump]

You need more help than I am able to provide. Good luck to you.

:runaway!:

I guess you prefer to stick with the shark arguments.
:roll:

[Truth Soldier]

AB hasn't actually distinguished between war and terrorism, since he defines terrorism as the use of force to achieve political objectives.

Apparently the difference depends on whether or not you take orders from people who collect taxes and build roads.

[Professor Donald Trump]

I think many of the flagwavers here, just believe might makes right.

[LossLimit]

Yes the Iraqies say that the US are terorrists. Maybe you should move there, professor. You seem to be in complete agreement with them.

Just keep in mind they probably don't have forum where they can post their opinions without getting their heads blown apart.

[Titania]

Yes the Iraqies say that the US are terorrists. Maybe you should move there, professor. You seem to be in complete agreement with them.

Just keep in mind they probably don't have forum where they can post their opinions without getting their heads blown apart.But I thought we freed them :-?

[LossLimit]

I'm working on it Titania. :)

[Professor Donald Trump]

Yes the Iraqies say that the US are terorrists. Maybe you should move there, professor. You seem to be in complete agreement with them.

Just keep in mind they probably don't have forum where they can post their opinions without getting their heads blown apart.

If you agree with what America is doing, maybe you should be over there fighting.
:GBA:

[LossLimit]

Yes the Iraqies say that the US are terorrists. Maybe you should move there, professor. You seem to be in complete agreement with them.

Just keep in mind they probably don't have forum where they can post their opinions without getting their heads blown apart.

If you agree with what America is doing, maybe you should be over there fighting.
:GBA:

I did not say I agree with what America is doing but I support my country. As long as there is no draft even if I agree I don't want to fight and I'm entitled. I do know that I'm not so brilliant and really don't know what the best things was or is for the US to do but before the war something had to be done. I don't think anyone knows what the future holds and I really don't believe anyone expected what is happening now.

Besides I'll be more of a hindrance overthere than anything else (I'm not exactly physically fit to do much over there).

[Professor Donald Trump]

Yes the Iraqies say that the US are terorrists. Maybe you should move there, professor. You seem to be in complete agreement with them.

Just keep in mind they probably don't have forum where they can post their opinions without getting their heads blown apart.

If you agree with what America is doing, maybe you should be over there fighting.
:GBA:

I did not say I agree with what America is doing but I support my country. As long as there is no draft even if I agree I don't want to fight and I'm entitled. I do know that I'm not so brilliant and really don't know what the best things was or is for the US to do but before the war something had to be done. I don't think anyone knows what the future holds and I really don't believe anyone expected what is happening now.

Besides I'll be more of a hindrance overthere than anything else (I'm not exactly physically fit to do much over there).

But I should be over there if I don't support what we are doing over there?

[LossLimit]

I never said you should fight, actually I thought you should move to Iraq and apply for citizenship.

[Professor Donald Trump]

I never said you should fight, actually I thought you should move to Iraq and apply for citizenship.

But I should be over there if I don't support what we are doing over there?

[LossLimit]

I never said you should fight, actually I thought you should move to Iraq and apply for citizenship.

But I should be over there if I don't support what we are doing over there?

Really professor, I'm not sure what you are missing here. Of course you should move there and show support for your friends. Like the people who move out to the Gaza strip to show support for the settlers.

Is it my english or is this a conceptual problem you are having?

[Aaron Brachowitz]

Is it my english or is this a conceptual problem you are having?
Just logic in general.

[Video Pancake]

Hey man you guys you guys just lay right on offf of old Shackur there man. Cause that guys got it goinging man. Man you guys he sead it was time to get that iatolla man and man that just what we did to man. Got him out a that sqwerel hole man all lookoing like some kind of hippy man.

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

SO, how is Iraq NOT terrorism, anyway?

I can help here. Iraq is a COUNTRY.

[NoName]

http://medienkritik.typepad.com/blog/2004/12/spiegel_online__1.html

Ms. Astrid Proll’s situation is a genuinely unfortunate one. According to SPIEGEL ONLINE, Ms. Proll maintained only "peripheral" connections to the hard-left German terror group RAF (Red Army Fraction) and spent five years in prison for bank robbery and forgery in the 1970s and 80s. Today the 57 year-old photojournalist leads a quiet, law-abiding life. But because of her checkered past, she recently ran into trouble attempting to attain a US visa to visit her dying mother in San Francisco. This past week, Ms. Proll's visa problem made it impossible for her to attend her mother’s funeral in the United States. [...]

[On the other hand,] look at what the UK's Observer had to say about Ms. Proll and the German media in 2002:

"Thirty years ago she was one of the most feared terrorists in Europe, joining her Red Army Faction (RAF) comrades in bombing raids and murderous attacks on establishment figures, terrorising Germany throughout the Seventies. (...)

It must be that she's "too Christian".