NFL Playoff Picture

[Anonymous]

After only three weeks of NFL action, isn't it interesting that we already have a pretty clear picture of what the NFL playoff scene will look like? Assuming no major injuries to key players, we can already state "in" or "out" consclusively with the majority of the 31 teams.

NFC East:
The Eagles will win the division.
The Giants will make the playoffs. They are 2-1 right now and will go 6-2 in their division.
The Cardinals, Cowboys, and Redskins are out.

NFC Central:
The Packers should win the division and will make the playoffs.
The Bucs and Vikings are on the bubble. Expect one of these teams to emerge and make the playoffs.
The Bears and Lions are out.

NFC West:
The Rams will win the division and make the playoffs.
The 49ers look strong but it may be too early to tell. This week vs. Carolina should sharpen the picture.
The Saints and Panthers look weak but it is too early to count them out.
The Falcons are out. They are 2-1 but have yet to beat a real team. They will go 3-5 in the division.

AFC East:
The Dolphins should win the division.
The jury is still out on the Colts although they should have the weapons to make it.
The Jets look weak. If they struggle against Buffalo this week (even if they win), count them out of the playoffs.
The Bills and Patriots are out.

AFC Central:
The Ravens are in.
The Browns, Bengals, Titans, and Jaguars are still question marks. This is the most muddled division in the NFL.
The Steelers are out. They can't be contenders with Stewart at QB.

AFC West:
The Raiders are in.
The Broncos and Chargers look strong.
The Chiefs and Seahawks are out.

Out of the 31 teams, we can identify 7 playoff teams and 11 non-playoff teams.

In the NFC, 5 teams are still in the running for 2 spots, with the 49ers and either Bucs or Vikings looking the strongest so far.

The AFC is a little tougher due to the confusion in the Central division. There are 8 teams fighting for 3 spots. Bear in mind that the Browns, Bengals, and Chargers have weaker schedules than the other 5. I like the Colts, Browns, Chargers, and Broncos to be real contenders for the 3 remaining spots.

Comments?

[WWSituation]

Don't be surprised to see the Bears displace the Vikings on your list. Also, count New Orleans in the playoff picture. I believe that SF and NO will grab 2 of the wild card spots with the other 4 teams being Green Bay, St. Louis, Phila., and NY.

I don't think the jury is out on the Colts. They are in. I will officially take back my comments about Tennessee being good as no winless team at this point deserves any of my passion in any discussion.

Baltimore is looking tough. Real tough.

[Anonymous]

The picture became clearer after this weekend's action.

WW: Although I would be thrilled to see my beloved Bears in the playoffs, it is not to be. They can't do better than 4-4 in their division and will not win more than 7 or 8 in total (they will be fortunate to get that many). You may be right about NO but right now I like SF and Tampa for the other wild cards.

The NFC is clearer as it looks as though SF and Tampa will take the last two spots. Minnesota can't seem to put together a complete game and Carolina is definitely out. New Orleans is still a possibility but has to play better outside of a dome.

The AFC has cleared up somewhat although there are still some question marks. I still like Indi, Cleveland, Denver, and San Diego to fight for the last three spots. Jacksonville is done. Tennessee is out. Cincinnati is out. The Jets had trouble with Buffalo and so (according to my earlier prediction) will not be playoff contenders.

We are down to 7 teams in each division. Not bad after only 4 weeks of a 17 week season.

[CJL]

Interesting that you initially ruled out Pittsburgh b/c of Stewart at QB, yet included Cincinnati as a question mark. Granted, Stewart is no QB - he'd probably be better at WR, or even RB, TE, or safety - but I'd still rather have him at QB than Kitna, Mitchell, or Smith.

I see you came to your senses and counted Cincinnati out the second time around. Though they don't deserve it based on the last two weeks, I'm sticking to my guns and predicting they have a great run (for them) and end up just missing the playoffs.

WW - I also give up on Tennessee. They show no heart. They look defeated before the game starts, like they're trying to convince themselves that they're good. Granted, they've had some tough games (Miami, Baltimore, and a healthy Jacksonville), but they used to hold those kind of teams to a stalemate until they could get a big play through. This year, they look like they're just trying not to get blown away too badly. Worse yet for them, Cleveland and Cincinnati aren't the pushovers they were last year.

A very muddled AFC Central. Odd this year that the the AFC East may be the cleanest of the divisions.

[Abducens]

>>WW - I also give up on Tennessee. They show no heart.

Told you so - does this mean I don't have to cut the crap anymore?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Abducens on 2001-10-09 09:39 ]</font>

[WWSituation]

Rub it in and enjoy it while you can!

[WWSituation]

For what its worth, I'm most embarresed that I have to eat crow about a team I could care less about!

[Ray Finkle]

I'm sticking by my statements. Abducens was saying that Tennessee was never good, which I disagreed with. You don't get to the Super Bowl without having a good team.

I too could care less about Tennessee. In fact, I'm glad to see them 0-3. But I respect what they've accomplished the last couple of years.

I think "Idle Hands" is getting a little carried away by saying the playoffs are just about decided already. There's still 13 weeks left. Strange things will happen. There will be teams that will make the playoffs that he is counting out.

[CJL]

I knew I had that coming, Abducens. I backed Tennessee (also w/ little personal interest, WW), and they proved me wrong. Enjoy it while you can.

I still stand by my point that Tennessee's AFC Championship is neither tarnished by having 2 crappy teams in their division, nor because of the means by which they won their first playoff game.

[Abducens]

The Titans were proof that it's better to be lucky than good. Their luck ran out.

I was exaggerating when I said they were never a good team. In real terms of their talent, they deserved to be about a 10-win team the last 2 years. An incredible run of luck got them as far as they did, and now it looks like it's over.

They've fallen apart now because they don't know what to do when the luck isn't there for them. Used to be they could execute and count on every bounce going their way. Now that it's not happening, they're playing tentatively and it's reflecting it how they can't seem to do anything right.

It's the same thing that happened to the 49ers in 1999. They depended on lucky bounces, referee help, and terrible opponents to win lots of games from 1995-1998. When the well dried up, it was a meltdown.

[Abducens]

>>Enjoy it while you can.

I will. You know, I would respect the Titans if they could pound teams into the dirt like they did the Giants last year. Instead they screw around all game til Jeff Fisher screams at them.

Same thing with the Harbaugh Colts teams. Those teams sucked. They just got kicks out of knocking off good teams. But I don't have a problem with today's Colts, since they are clearly capable of kicking butt.

[Abducens]

Ah, c'mon, you guys aren't going to let me think I'm right but not replying, are you? This was too easy!

[CJL]

Sorry, but you're right about Tennessee's performance so far this year. They're not pounding anyone. If their O-line gave in any more, the defense would be intercepting the hand-off.

The Harbaugh Colts teams weren't crappy, they were above-average and over-achieved in an AFC with no dominant teams.

Today's Colts are last year's Rams. And last year's Colts, come to think of it. They get their butts kicked, but kick back harder.

[CJL]

Let me clarify one point - Harbaugh himself was crappy. The team was decent and made some plays.

[Abducens]

You know, all you seem to do is refute what I say, and not provide any supporting arguments. Cut the crap!

What are these 'plays' the Harbaugh Colts made? Hey, I bet they made a lot of these 'plays' when they lost to the expansion Panthers!

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Thank you, CJL for your sacrifice. You confirmed my suspicions.

[Abducens]

Something to add?

[Dr T Non-Fan]

D.N.F.T.T.

[Abducens]

Wow, you are so cool with your secret codes.

Anyone else want to be proven wrong on football knowledge?

[Abducens]

Didn't think so! Again: Too easy.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

More like no one wants to converse with YOU.

[CJL]

You're the one taking the position that some teams are not as good as their record or playoff success would indicate. Records and playoff success are facts. What are you basing your opinions on? (emphasis on "opinion")

[Abducens]

>>More like no one wants to converse with YOU.

X.R.Q.B.H.Z.

Boo-yah!

[Abducens]

>>Records and playoff success are facts. What are you basing your opinions on?
(emphasis on "opinion")

Here's an example: You look at the Titans - if they were so skilled, why didn't they go for 2 after Homerun Throwback worked?

They should have tried to make it 23-16 instead of 22-16. If Buffalo would have returned the ensuing kickoff themselves, the Titans would have been screwed. By kicking the PAT, they basically said, "Yup, we don't know what we are doing, but hey, we're lucky so it doesn't matter."

That's the kind of thing I base my opinions on. It involves actually looking beyond the stats and numbers.

And sure, they're opinions, but mine are actually supported with real ideas while yours are supported by "cut the crap" (yes, you will never live it down) and "they make plays." Wow, that's indepth analysis. Watch out Joe Theismann, he's got a bead on your job!

Playoff success and records are statistics. I invite you to read -How To Lie With Statistics-. Statistics in the NFL are barely significant, especially these days. To say "The numbers don't lie" in regards to the NFL is trite.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Abducens on 2001-10-16 08:58 ]</font>

[CJL]

Naturally, statistics are easily manipulated to give whatever impression you want, and you are the primary abuser. What really matters in football? If you win. If a team wins three playoff games on lucky plays and wins the Super Bowl by 1 point on a fluke play against a team with 9 starters in the locker room with injuries, they still get the rings. You're trying to use other statistics to say that the wins don't matter. The wins are all that matters. The rest is bar talk.

[CJL]

Forgot to mention...

Joe Theismann??? Now I'm insulted. He only seems OK by comparison to Mike Patrick.

[Abducens]

>>You're trying to use other statistics to say that the wins don't matter. The wins are all that matters. The rest is bar talk.

Ah heck, What was I thinking, bar talk. Let's compare almanacs then, since that's about all this discussion will be limited to.

I prefer the ESPN "Information Please" almanac to tell me everything I need to know about the NFL. How about you? I understand there are many online resources as well. You know, I was just looking stuff up the other day and saw how Trent Green was the best QB in the NFC in 2000. His QB rating said so, and I assimilated that information. Resistance was futile.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Abducens on 2001-10-16 12:16 ]</font>

[WWSituation]

Winning can just as easily be manipulated. Some of the winningest QBs (Dilfer, Jim McMahon to name a couple) aren't/weren't the best QBs around.

I would rank:

1. Sustained performance + Super Bowl Ring
2. Dominant few years + Super Bown Ring
3. Sustained performance with no ring
4. Dominant few years with no ring
5. 1 good year + Super Bowl ring
6. All others
3. Dominant few years + Super Bown Ring

[Abducens]

>>Winning can just as easily be manipulated. Some of the winningest QBs (Dilfer, Jim McMahon to name a couple) aren't/weren't the best QBs around.

Please do not muddle the picture with your imperfect interpretations of statistics. We have agreed to accept statistics at face value. Your remarks encourage taboo "bar talk" which we have agreed to do away with.

Trent Dilfer is awesome, he won a Super Bowl. So is Tony Banks. You can't win a Super Bowl unless you are awesome.

If you would like to contribute to the discussion, please state your preferred source of statistical data. Thank you for your kind attention.

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

Does counting the dumbasses on this board count as a statistic?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DonkeyPunch on 2001-10-16 20:47 ]</font>

[Abducens]

Sure. The ones who post in secret code count double!

[Patience]

On 2001-10-16 08:47, Abducens wrote:
>>More like no one wants to converse with YOU.

X.R.Q.B.H.Z.

Boo-yah!


I couldn't resist

[Abducens]

Good catch, I never said I wasn't one of them!

G.J.O.D.E.W.H.X.R.B.Y.Z.!

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

Hey dumbasses! Decipher my secret code!

F.U.Q.

[Abducens]

T.E.

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

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MFBVKLNM ;KM ,SDMNV, C

[Abducens]

Them's fightin' abbreviations!

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

Are we the only 2 that are mature enough to discuss football in a rational way?

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GFWRGRG3
WG
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SXXCA
WRGRW?

[Abducens]

Apparently everyone else is too C.S. to post anymore.

Titans are lookin' good!

Let's see, they've lost 4, and they've won: on a last second field goal... and on a last second field goal (over an 0-6 team)!

Wow, maybe CJL was really right. The Titans really are awesome. I should have just accepted his "they are AFC champions and that is that, cut the crap" argument.

Oops, I guess I just guaranteed that those guys won't post here again!

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

They weren't going to post anyway. They're sissies.

Go Titans!

[Indep]

Abducens: Boo-Yah? What are you some kind of cross between Actuary and rapper? I hope you're kidding around on some of those comments. Anyway, the Titans are terrible. When they could run the ball they were a decent team. Good D, and able to run the ball, that sounds like a recipe from anothe AFC Central team! That's right, the Steelers have the whole division playing their style of football (Ravens, Titans, Cincy (without the D)). Pretty bizarre. Cleveland may develop a decent passing game though.

[Abducens]

>>Anyway, the Titans are terrible.

The Titans are no better or worse than they've always been, it's just finally reflecting in the loss column.

Gosh, I wonder if you're a Steelers fan!

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

He's not a Steelers fan. He's merely pointing out the fact that before the Steelers started doing it this year, teams didn't know what "defense" or the "running game" was.

Thank god the Steelers came along! Keeping 11 guys on the field to stop the other team from scoring? This is evidently called "defense". Pure genius. And this "running game" you speak of? You mean run offensive plays without a forward pass? Revolutionary! All teams are now copying the Steelers formula of a "running game" and "defense".

[Shrek]

Trent Dilfer is awesome, he won a Super Bowl. So is Tony Banks.
What are you smoking, anyway?

[Abducens]

Welcome to the discussion, Mrs. Nesbit. If you take a moment to read the whole thread I'm sure you'll understand the hilarity of my comment in its full context.

Yeah, when you're talking about defense and running the ball, that's Steelers football. And Jerome Bettis, he's a Steelers kind of player. In that he is big, and talented. By definition that makes him a Steelers kind of player. Kordell Stewart is not a "real" Steeler because he is untalented and effeminate.

Hey, do you think Ford will win re-election? I am leaning toward Jimmy Carter myself.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Abducens on 2001-11-05 08:08 ]</font>

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

Seriously, I think the Steelers players reflect the characteristics of the people of Pittsburgh themselves. In the 70s they were "hard working, blue collar" types. And now they're all going to be unemployed in a year.

[Abducens]

Did you know we are trolls? I just thought we were correct and people were sick of getting their pathetic arguments shot down.

Can't talk anymore, I have to go irritate someone else with my irrefutable ideas!

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

We're not trolls! Unless you call people that litter message boards with annoying crap "trolls".

[Abducens]

Get it straight, it's not annoying crap, it's "bar talk."

[Abducens]

Maybe we can get this topic going again if I promise to play nice.

What do you think of the playoff picture now? 49ers at Rams winner should get the inside track for the NFC.

Nobody seems to want to win the AFC. Oakland is the best team but lately AFC is reverting back to its form of failing to send its best team to the big show.

[Anonymous]

On 2001-11-02 19:20, DonkeyPunch wrote:
He's not a Steelers fan. He's merely pointing out the fact that before the Steelers started doing it this year, teams didn't know what "defense" or the "running game" was.

Thank god the Steelers came along! Keeping 11 guys on the field to stop the other team from scoring? This is evidently called "defense". Pure genius. And this "running game" you speak of? You mean run offensive plays without a forward pass? Revolutionary! All teams are now copying the Steelers formula of a "running game" and "defense".

Sarcasm can be funny when done intelligently.
But when you're an idiot, sarcasm just makes it seem worse.
It is clear to most of us that Indep was refering to the fact that the Steelers have historically employed a style of football that focuses on protecting the ball and controlling the clock.
As opposed to, say, the Oilers when Moon was QB, a team that preferred the run and gun style. The Bengals have also utilized this system in the past.
Grow up.

[Abducens]

>>It is clear to most of us that Indep was refering to the fact that the Steelers have historically employed a style of football that focuses on protecting the ball and controlling the clock.

Clear enough, but like most Steeler fans, they act like that this strategy is proprietary to them.

Lighten up, it was funny. We could have good discussion here if people could take a little ribbing.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Abducens on 2001-12-03 16:45 ]</font>

[Cement Mixer]

The best ribs I had were at a Steelers game. The guy cooked them on his engine on the drive to the stadium. He kept the sauce strapped to the radiator - awesome. The Colts are gonna go all the way with Walter Peyton and John Manning. Didn't he coach the Raider's?

[Indep]

I'm not offended... It's funny how the whole division is playing the same style though. The same could be said for San Fran (and the Rams copying). The whole division isn't as strong offensivly though. Obviously, they're probably the two best at throwing the ball.

PS. I'm a fan of a good ground game, but you have to be able to throw a little. I guess it's a while since I posted, because Baltimore's ground game seems to be halted by about 4 broken legs. Bad Luck. That's ok let Baltimore suffer. They didn't live through the tough times, they stole a competitive team from cleveland.

[Huki]

On 2001-12-05 00:46, Indep wrote:
They didn't live through the tough times, they stole a competitive team from cleveland.

Given the 10+ years of whining they did over the Colts' move to Indy, I should let this slide (but I won't). Baltimore didn't steal anything. The owner of the team made a decision to move his property.

[Abducens]

It doesn't matter, Cleveland comes out ahead anyway.

Baltimore got an owner that couldn't make money owning one of the most loved franchises in sports, their MVP is a murderer, and their coach is a jerk.
Everyone hates them.

[Anonymous]

My sentiments exactly!

[Anonymous]

Abdu, 2 wrong statements. Not everyone hates the Ravens. I happened to enjoy seeing them destroy the Giants in the super bowl.

And the MVP is not a murderer. There was no case against him, so charges were dropped.

[Shrek]

On 2001-12-05 08:32, Abducens wrote:
Baltimore got an owner that couldn't make money owning one of the most loved franchises in sports...but it was the city's fault. He sold out his fans and friends when he moved his team for a cash fix so he could keep it. Then he pissed that away and had to sell the team. And I have no sypathy for him.

[Anonymous]

On 2001-12-05 09:35, tonythetiger wrote:

And the MVP is not a murderer.



Neither is OJ.

[Anonymous]

I think they had a little more evidence against OJ.

If a couple of associates of Lewis killed someone, it is inaccurate to label Lewis a murderer.

[Abducens]

So the courts must be infallible, huh?

Boy, now I REALLY hope you're a Democrat!

[Abducens]

>>Not everyone hates the Ravens. I happened to enjoy seeing them destroy the Giants in the super bowl.

Like they said on The Simpsons, Everyone who counts hates the Ravens.

If you're just a Giants hater, then this all shouldn't really matter to you.

If you're a Ravens backer, you should know that nearly everyone, even those without a personal axe to grind, thinks the Baltimore Ravens are a scumbag operation. Even the Titans hate them for out-scumming them.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Abducens on 2001-12-05 11:16 ]</font>

[Anonymous]

Abby, I think your the one with the axe to grind. Just because you hate the Ravens, doesn't mean everyone does.

I am not a "Ravens backer", but I am impressed with how they put together their team last year. The defense was awesome. And they signed key players to multiyear contracts, so they won't lose them to free agency. Umtil this year with Elvis, they didn't go out and buy any big name free agents.

[Abducens]

I think the Ravens are loaded with talent. They were definitely the best team in the AFC last year. Doesn't mean I can't say they're a bunch of despicable thugs and jerks.

If the general consensus is NOT "we hate the Ravens," then why did they get the MNF snub? Traditionally the Super Bowl champion opens MNF at home - not this year.

Fact is, more people are happy than unhappy when the Ravens lose, and it has nothing to do with standings or how good they are.

[Anonymous]

Backing off a bit?

From "Everyone hates them"
to "nearly everyone"
to "more people are happy than unhappy"

What's next, "maybe one or two people agree with you"?

[Boink]

If we're taking a poll ...

I agree with him.

[Abducens]

Well, I guess you caught my propensity to exaggerate - evidenced earlier in this thread. But I stick by my latest assessment.

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

>>"Sarcasm can be funny when done intelligently.
But when you're an idiot, sarcasm just makes it seem worse.
It is clear to most of us that Indep was refering to the fact that the Steelers have historically employed a style of football that focuses on protecting the ball and controlling the clock.
As opposed to, say, the Oilers when Moon was QB, a team that preferred the run and gun style. The Bengals have also utilized this system in the past.
Grow up."

Wow, I guess you put me in my place! Your ability to name two different kinds of offenses has me in awe. I'll never question anyone's football knowledge on this board again.

Anyone want to talk that has a sense of humor?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DonkeyPunch on 2001-12-05 16:39 ]</font>

[Anonymous]

On 2001-12-05 10:29, tonythetiger wrote:
If a couple of associates of Lewis killed someone, it is inaccurate to label Lewis a murderer.


The law in Georgia at the time said that if you were a knowing accessory to murder, you could be convicted of murder. Putting Ray Lewis on trial for lying to the cops wouldn't have turned the sports world on its ear the way putting him on trial for murder 2 did. Only a lack of surviving witnesses kept Ray Lewis from Oz; to his credit, he plays like he knows it.

And I hate the Ravens. But I'm a Steeler fan and they stand in our way so I'm allowed to hate them.

[Anonymous]

On 2001-12-05 12:58, tonythetiger wrote:
I am not a "Ravens backer", but I am impressed with how they put together their team last year. The defense was awesome. And they signed key players to multiyear contracts, so they won't lose them to free agency. Umtil this year with Elvis, they didn't go out and buy any big name free agents.


Michael McCrary, Shannon Sharpe, Qadry Ismail, Sam Gash, Rod Woodson, Carnell Lake, Tony Siragusa, Sam Adams. All starters for the 2000 Ravens. ALL Pro Bowlers. and ALL signed as free agents.

If you are impressed with how the Ravens put their team together, you must not be very familiar with a little thing called "facts." The Ravens bought that Super Bowl same as every team buys it. They just bought it quietly, over 4 years.

[Han Solo]

Actually, Carnell Lake was still with the Jags for the 2000 season, he didn't sign with the Ravens until the 2001 season.

[Griffin 1]

On 2001-12-05 17:30, Salmon wrote:
... you must not be very familiar with a little thing called "facts."

I'm going to use this line the next time my in-laws start talking politics.

[Anonymous]

DP, I'm not sure I've ever met anyone that misses the point as consistently as you.

I've got a good sense of humor - you're just not funny.

I'll leave you to your devices, there's obviously little chance of having anything resembling an intelligent conversation with you. I'm not sure why I've even gone this far.

[Griffin 1]

On 2001-12-06 07:26, Mainiac wrote:
DP, I'm not sure I've ever met anyone that misses the point as consistently as you.

Lao, Botsy, VoR/alex/JJ, ttt, etc.

[Abducens]

>>The Ravens bought that Super Bowl same as every team buys it.

I only need go back one year to prove you wrong - the Rams were built through the draft and smart trading.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Abducens on 2001-12-06 09:23 ]</font>

[Anonymous]

On 2001-12-06 07:52, Griffin wrote:

On 2001-12-06 07:26, Mainiac wrote:
DP, I'm not sure I've ever met anyone that misses the point as consistently as you.

Lao, Botsy, VoR/alex/JJ, ttt, etc.


I absolutely cannot argue with that!
I stand corrected.

[Abducens]

You're missing the point, which I made earlier. DP's remarks were the result of the typical Steeler-fan attitude that they "own" the strategy of running and defense.

Imagine for a moment your team has managed to build the talent that predisposes itself to ball control - running and defense. Now imagine a Steelers fan remarks how your team is running a "Steelers-style" offense.

You'd be a little insulted, wouldn't you? Who's this twit acting like your team owes the Steelers royalties just because you have a good, strong RB and reliable D? I think I'd ask if having an effeminate QB is also integral to Steelers football.

Well, I can't spell it out any clearer for you than that.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Abducens on 2001-12-06 10:27 ]</font>

[Huki]

Every time a team allows an interception to be run back for a touchdown, they owe Peyton Manning and the Colts royalties.

[Abducens]

I would allow that anytime someone says "Poo," they owe Mora or his team royalties.

[Anonymous]

On 2001-12-06 09:22, Abducens wrote:
I only need go back one year to prove you wrong - the Rams were built through the draft and smart trading.


Uh-huh. Where did the money come from to pay Marshall Faulk? Did the Rams draft Kurt Warner or did they pick him up as a free agent? Didn't the Rams spend $25 million on a free agent contract for Trent Green, only to watch him get hurt in the preseason? Wasn't Torry Holt a big money first round pick? Did they sign Adam Timmerman away from the Pack? And how much was Vermeil making?

It's money, man, money at the skill positions, and money at the leadership positions. You can't prove that you don't win in the NFL without paying for it because every team has the same budget. It's all about judicious use of the same money, and whether your team is willing to lay the cash out to win it this year or next.

The Steelers (there's that word again) hardly ever pay big bucks for players, but this past offseason they gave Bettis a huge extension and signed Jeff Hartings to a really big free agent contract. Coincidentally, the Steelers are the #1 rushing offense in the league. Did they buy it? Some would say no. But neither of those guys were Steeler draft picks. Your dream world has long since passed.

[Abducens]

>>Uh-huh. Where did the money come from to pay Marshall Faulk? Did the Rams draft Kurt Warner or did they pick him up as a free agent? Didn't the Rams spend $25 million on a free agent contract for Trent Green, only to watch him get hurt in the preseason? Wasn't Torry Holt a big money first round pick? Did they sign Adam Timmerman away from the Pack? And how much was Vermeil making?

Salmon, that's ridiculous. Just because the players aren't playing for free you can't say "Every Super Bowl is bought." The current salary cap system prevents teams from going out and hiring free agent mercenaries and buying a champion year in and year out a la the Yankees.

The only areas where your arguments hold water are Green and Timmerman. Green got hurt and was never a factor in their Super Bowl, so that shoots you down there. And Warner, he sure cashed as a free agent with what, $300-400K that year? Timmerman I'll let you keep.

Your comments about Holt, Faulk, and Vermeil are almost too stupid to fathom. Faulk was traded for. Holt was drafted - what were they supposed to do, offer him nothing? And Vermeil, heck, I guess you're right, if the Rams had any integrity they would hire and keep coaches until they quit or die.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Abducens on 2001-12-06 11:31 ]</font>

[Anonymous]

Ab,
Who has said (in this forum) that the Steelers "own" any particular brand of football?

I would agree that if someone felt a team would owe "royalties" to the Steelers for using a strong running game, they should probably find another hobby. However, I feel you are exaggerating. Plus, this would not "insult" me in any way. Why would I care?

It is not uncommon in any sport for a style of play to become synonymous with a particular team. The fast break was called Laker style basketball in the 80's. The Yankees at various times in history have been successful hitting home runs. To this day they are still called the Bronx Bombers. In the last 30 years, the Steelers have had two head coaches, both of whom like to stress running and defense. Is it any surprise that this style is associated with them? They have certainly had periods where they weren't very good at it, but they've always used it, and currently they are arguably the best at it.

It's quite possible that there are Steelers fans that feel the way you say they do. I'm not convinced they all do, or even the majority. I have not seen this attitude anywhere in this thread.

Donkey just likes to use any excuse to act like a, well, you know...

[Abducens]

>>Coincidentally, the Steelers are the #1 rushing offense in the league. Did they buy it? Some would say no. But neither of those guys were Steeler draft picks. Your dream world has long since passed.

Now now, don't get uppity with me just because you're a Steelers fan and I've revealed the two-line requirements of "How to be More Intelligent Than Most Steelers Fans."

[Abducens]

>>Ab, Who has said (in this forum) that the Steelers "own" any particular brand of football?

Mainiac:

Indep said on 9/25 (that long ago??):
"That's right, the Steelers have the whole division playing their style of football (Ravens, Titans, Cincy (without the D))."

Note how he takes even takes credit for Cincy's game, which has the running but no D!

[Abducens]

>>Donkey just likes to use any excuse to act like a, well, you know...

Coupled with the fact that he's usually right makes him downright hilarious.

I now predict you will post something stupid about baseball. Ommmmmmm

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Abducens on 2001-12-06 13:19 ]</font>

[Anonymous]

On 2001-12-06 11:24, Abducens wrote:
The current salary cap system prevents teams from going out and hiring free agent mercenaries and buying a champion year in and year out a la the Yankees.

Your comments about Holt, Faulk, and Vermeil are almost too stupid to fathom. Faulk was traded for. Holt was drafted - what were they supposed to do, offer him nothing? And Vermeil, heck, I guess you're right, if the Rams had any integrity they would hire and keep coaches until they quit or die.



The Yankees, during their 4 championship run over the last 6 years, employed the same "team-constructing" strategy as the Rams, yet the Rams are legit and the Yankees buy titles? In six years, the "mercenaries" you speak of are Wells, Hernandez, and Mussina. Virtually every other major contributor was acquired via trade or farm system. What gives?

[Anonymous]

["That's right, the Steelers have the whole division playing their style of football (Ravens, Titans, Cincy (without the D))." ]

Being reasonable, I took "their style" to mean "a style similar to theirs", not "the style to which they own the exclusive rights".

[Abducens]

>>Being reasonable, I took "their style" to mean "a style similar to theirs", not "the style to which they own the exclusive rights".

Boy oh boy, now we're getting into some semantics that Bill Clinton would be proud of. "Their" is possessive. My interpretation is closer to what was written, straight-up. I think if he meant "similar to their" he would have said just that.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Abducens on 2001-12-06 12:54 ]</font>

[Abducens]

>>In six years, the "mercenaries" you speak of are Wells, Hernandez, and Mussina.

I will admit that I'm no baseball fan, but I'll say this -

There HAS to be more guys than just those.
Even if it IS just those, you're right, those guys are bums, they can't be a contributing factor. Same will go for Giambi, n'est-ce pas?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Abducens on 2001-12-06 12:56 ]</font>

[Abducens]

>>The Yankees at various times in history have been successful hitting home runs. To this day they are still called the "Bronx Bombers."

I just read this. Let me get this straight, you have no quarrel with the notion that any team that hits lots of homers should be considered as copying the Yankees' style?

You know it sounds like to me when I hear it - like a Yankee fan trying to take credit for other teams' success. Like if a team wins it all using strategy that historically belongs to my team, then my team deserves partial credit. I don't buy it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Abducens on 2001-12-06 13:04 ]</font>

[Anonymous]

Stick to football.
(In response to first post)

Added in light of second post:

That's not at all what I said, perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension skills.

_________________
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mainiac on 2001-12-06 13:08 ]</font>

[Abducens]

>>Stick to football.

Boy, if I ever needed validation on my most recent arguments, I just got it.

Forget Kornheiser & Wilbon - we've got PTI right here on actuary.ca!

[Boink]

On 2001-12-06 11:50, Mainiac wrote:
The Yankees, during their 4 championship run over the last 6 years, employed the same "team-constructing" strategy as the Rams, yet the Rams are legit and the Yankees buy titles? In six years, the "mercenaries" you speak of are Wells, Hernandez, and Mussina. Virtually every other major contributor was acquired via trade or farm system. What gives?





Whoa! How did we come to ignore the best examples of the uneven playing field ? Chuck Knoblauch signed with the Twins, then decided he HAD to play for the Yankees, at which point the Twins were compelled to send him on his way. Roger Clemens, same story.

Hideki Irabu wants to play in NY ... SD, hand him over. Oh, he sucks ? Wait, you take him, Expos, and make sure to pass along the 3 prospects for your trouble.

Drew Henson ? Sorry, we need to trade you for some help, but just whine and cry until the Reds are forced to send you back to us, tail between their legs.

It's easy when you make trades, never having to give up YOUR best prospects while demanding the best from others for cast-offs. What is it now, the Yanks will let El Duque go to arbitration, then trade him ... not that anyone WANTS him at the salary he'll be making, but I'm sure it's in baseball's best interests not to leave a 36 y/o to rot in the Bronx. And if they sign Alou, intent on trading Justice to offset the salary bump, what does the poor team burdened with Justice have to give up for the pleasure of doing business with the Yanks ?

The Yankees haven't been winning BECAUSE their homegrown talent is better than anyone else's. The simply pay to keep their own AND accumulate other teams' best => WS Championships.

[Abducens]

Bashful, you need to stick to football, you obviously don't know anything.

If you insist on this course of action of ripping baseball and the Yankees, I will throw myself on the ground, cover my ears, and shout I Can't Hear You.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Abducens on 2001-12-06 13:13 ]</font>

[Abducens]

>>That's not at all what I said, perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension skills.

OK, wait, let me go back and edit all my previous posts too. That way I can refute your arguments before you even utter them. It'll be like the show Quantum Leap, dude.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Abducens on 2001-12-06 13:19 ]</font>

[Indep]

Wow, I'm surprised that I've started such an arguement. I meant that "their style of football" to mean just that. It's the style they play. I would say the same of the Ravens, but they've only had a team for a few years, where the steelers have employed the same style consistently for many years. I don't think that Ravens' have earned the right to call it "their style" yet.

PS. Put me down for the "Hates the Ravens".

[Abducens]

Everyone is invited to my victory party!

[Indep]

"Note how he takes even takes credit for Cincy's game, which has the running but no D!"

I take credit for no game. I don't work in the NFL...

Why are you having a victory party?

[Abducens]

Indep, everybody! Give him a nice round of applause. I could not have done this without him.

[Anonymous]

Bashful,
The Twins got Eric Milton and Christian Guzman. You may have heard of them.

The Blue Jays offered Clemens to the Yankees for David Wells and Graehme Lloyd. The Yankees, I expect, should have declined.

Irabu - you got me on that one.

Henson hasn't contributed anything to the Yankees thus far, and the Reds knew the risk when they traded for him. The Yankees are evil because the Reds are reckless?

I agree that it certainly helps that the Yankees can afford to keep their talent. I did not dispute this. They also do a good job of identifying and cultivating talent. The Dodgers and Red Sox can afford to keep their talent too. How have they been doing lately?

I was offering a counter-point to Ab's claim that they buy new mercenaries each year in order to win championships. That simply isn't true.

Ab, stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

[Abducens]

>>Henson hasn't contributed anything to the Yankees thus far, and the Reds knew the risk when they traded for him. The Yankees are evil because the Reds are reckless?

Man, I'm not even a baseball fan and I can pick this apart. So the Reds should know that there's a risk of Henson throwing a fit and wanting to go back to the Yankees - and this is reasonable?

OK, now I know you are a Yankees fan. Only a Yankees fan would see nothing wrong with this picture.

Hey, you're doing a good job of avoiding football now that I've completely trounced you in that topic. Let me know whether you are a Giants or Jets fan so I know whether to taunt you about pass interference penalties or onsides kicks.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Abducens on 2001-12-06 13:37 ]</font>

[Boink]

Mainiac, never did I say that Milton and Guzman were useless ... but why are the Twins, the Jays, the Reds and anyone else obligated to trade with the Yankees whenever a player under contract decides he'd rather be in NY ? Clearly you can't assume these teams had any leverage when making the trades.

The fact that Duquette and Malone have fouled up the Sox and Dodgers over the last few years does nothing to eliminate the disadvantage for whoever's next when the Yankees decide they need a new part.

[Anonymous]

Ab, for someone who critized me for editing posts, you seem to do your share.

The risk involved in trading for Henson was not that he would "pitch a fit". He had stated prior to the trade that he would probably return to football if things didn't work out for him with the Yankees. The Reds took the chance that they could convince him to leave football behind. They lost. You're correct in saying that baseball isn't your best subject.

Getting back to your reading comprehension skills, Indep verified that my interpretation of his statement regarding the Steelers and "their style" of play was correct. He even suggested that this style could belong to more than one team, thereby eliminating your interpretation of "the style to which they hold the exclusive rights". How nice of you to throw me a party.





_________________
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mainiac on 2001-12-06 13:49 ]</font>

[Abducens]

>>He even suggested that this style could belong to more than one team, thereby eliminating your interpretation of "the style to which they hold the exclusive rights". How nice of you to throw me a party.

Man, you will never get it. He clearly is saying that the Steelers' style is practically proprietary and that other teams are running 'their style.' He even says the Bengals are running it except for a defense.

The day a Steeler fan admits that "running and defense" are the brainchild of any franchise but their own, I'll eat my hat.

I know more about baseball as an outsider than a lot of you guys who love it and declare it the "pasttime" will allow yourselves. Baseball hasn't been the national pasttime in years. If it were so great, why is it contracting?

[Anonymous]

I don't think the Steelers invented "running and defense". Start eating.

Yes, I can see how much you know about baseball. It's amazing to me that someone with so little to show would keep pulling their pants down.

[Abducens]

At least my team's QB isn't a homo.

[Anonymous]

Nice.

Are you a racist too?

[Abducens]

Nope. I hope my team can run the Steelers style of gay-QB'ing someday!

[Abducens]

Though, this does explain your sudden urge to talk about my pants being down.

[Abducens]

OK, I upset you. How about this, he's only kind of gay. Like, if it's the offseason and a REALLY pretty woman walks by, he might notice.

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

Maniac,

Everyone else thought my post was funny, or at least not offensive -- even Indep. But you went and got your panties in a bunch over a sarcastic comment about the Steelers. Dude, relax, it's just football -- no need to be so self-righteous and judgemental.

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

In an effort to settle this argument, I will concede that the following ingredients make up "Steelers football":

1) A running game.
2) Defense.
3) A gay quarterback.
4) Money to buy Jason Giambi.
5) Self-righteous fans.

Did I miss anything?

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

Ab, did we do it again?

[Abducens]

It appears so.

I enjoyed the Steelers game Sunday. Steelers fans are so smart - booing their kicker just as he's about to make attempts. Kordell was waving his arms around at the time - practicing his ballet, I can only guess.

[Indep]

On 2001-12-06 16:11, Abducens wrote:
OK, I upset you. How about this, he's only kind of gay. Like, if it's the offseason and a REALLY pretty woman walks by, he might notice.

At least my team's QB isn't a homo.


You can always pick out the good church-going Republicans in a crowd.

PS. I am with you about hating the Ravens though (although not the homo-phobic thing)... Everyone does hate the ravens. Their MVP wouldn't have walked if he wasnt' who he is, and that's a fact. The team was stolen overnight from Cleveland. It's people like that that ruin sports.

[Mr. Grim]

I would rather have a bunch of thugs on mine team than some homo's - what's a couple dead folks anyhow, sodomy is the real problem in our society.

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

Well, you know those Steelers fans. They're "hard hat", "blue collar" types who lack "intelligence" and "visible genitalia".

(I'm doing air quotations as I write this, a la Chris Farley)

[Abducens]

DP: I caught Salmon in the hockey fans thread good.

So he went on and talked about me private parts again. I'm beginning to fear that he and Mainiac are going to gang rape me or something.

[Abducens]

>>Well, you know those Steelers fans. They're "hard hat", "blue collar" types who lack "intelligence" and "visible genitalia".

>>(I'm doing air quotations as I write this, a la Chris Farley)

Explains all the vans down by the river in Pittsburgh. What a hellhole, by the way.

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

Pittsburgh ain't so bad -- there's a few good bars and clubs. But I've only visited, so maybe life sucks there on a daily basis, with long, cold, lonely winters that make you question your commitment to heterosexuality.

[Abducens]

That must be what all those Steelers fans are pondering in that Visa commercial.

"Loooooovin' you - is easy 'cuz you're beautiful......."

You know that's what the stadium vendor is thinking there. *Hm. Why am I having these thoughts about Plaxico?*

[Indep]

It must have been a tough childhood getting picked on if you're still calling names. Actually, maybe you're a 13 year old that happend into the forum by accident, while searching for the word "homo". So I guess I shouldn't assume.

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

That's right, you should NEVER assume anything. Unless you know a guy from Pittsburgh. In that case you can safely assume he's gay.

Lovin youuuuu, is easy cuz you're beeeutiful ....

[Mr. Grim]

How do I become a Steeler fans?

I heard there is a new Steeler fan club at Long D***'s Cafe every Monday night. Is that worth checking out?

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

Hmm, that sounds promising. Be sure to wear your limited edition Jack Lambert crotchless pants.

[Abducens]

>>Actually, maybe you're a 13 year old that happend into the forum by accident, while searching for the word "homo".

That makes a lot of sense, considering I was the first here to use the word. That's that Steelers fan brainpower at work again.

Actually if you type homo into askjeeves, about dozen Kordell fan sites pop up. And 2 Cowher ones - what's up with that.

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

Hey Ab, did I tell you about the rumor that Kordel has a pool table with pink felt in his house?

[Indep]

Ouch. The ravens got dominated. That didn't look like a tough defense to me. It looks like a tired defense, though. (After playing about 41 minutes, I'd be tired too.)

[Indep]

PS. I've never typed "homo" into Ask Jeeves, so I'll have to take your word for it.

[Ray Finkle]

Interesting that 2 of the 3 teams that have clinched the playoffs were considered "out" by Idle Hands after 4 weeks of the season. I love the parity that exists in the NFL. The Rams came out of nowhere to win it in 1999, the Ravens last year, and maybe the Bears or Steelers this year.

[jets fan]

I said it last week after they beat up on us, and I'll say it again now: http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/nfl/2001/1216/photo/a_kordell_i.jpg

- Kordell Stewart is a major reason why Pittsburgh is as good as they are this year. He's converting third downs and NOT throwing INTs - a far cry from the Kordell of old.

[Abducens]

Congrats to the Steelers on wrapping up that division. It will be tough to deal with that ground game esp. since Fu and Zereoue look nearly as effective as Bettis. Plaxico's TD was incredible - you know which one.

[Indep]

Amos and Fu are pretty good, but not as good as the Bus. One thing was constant though, a great O-line. To get 160 yds rushing against a good D like Baltimore's, you need a great offensive line. Also, Kordell was only rushed a few times (while they had the ball 40 minutes). That'll help a shaky QB get confidence.

PS. Ravens fans: A gay QB tore up your precious defense! How does it feel?

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

Rumor has it Baltimore is interested in signing a hermaphrodidic defensive end in the offseason.

[Indep]

I don't know, Ray Lewis may kill him.

[Han Solo]

Or Siragusa may eat him.

[treyso]

Its funny to read the very first post.

>>Pittsburgh is out...Kordell...

jetsman, a far cry from the former cry baby. He used to cry more than Dick Vermeil. But now I don't know if Vermeil squints more than he cries now.

[jets fan]

Its funny to read the very first post

I agree! It's always funny to see all of the early predictions and the reasoning (or lack thereof) for them! Looking back, this truely has been a year for supposedly strong teams collapsing (Tennessee, Minnesota,...) and teams coming out of nowhere (Chicago, San Fran,..). The next few weeks should be VERY interesting!

J-E-T-S! Jets! Jets! Jets!

[toomuchtime]

It is all about the Patriots. They are 8-2 in their last 10. They will beat Miami next week - a game at Foxboro in cold temperatures. Their last game is against Carolina. So they will most likely finish 11-5, win the AFC East, and get a home playoff game, unless the Jets win out which will only happen if Joe Namath comes back.

Then, look at the other teams that will make the playoffs in the AFC:

Pittsburgh - won't be able to win a close game because Kris Brown is worse than a Pop Warner kicker.

Oakland - it's Oakland, they can't win big games.

Baltimore - not the same team as last year.

Miami - again they will have to play the Pats in Foxboro in January. Too cold for them.

Jets - if they don't fall completely apart, they should make the playoffs. They won't go far.

Seattle - if the Jets don't make it, they probably will. Matt Hasselback is their QB. No hope.

So, that leaves the New England Patriots. They are on fire. They are playing passionate football, winning some close games (all right, they should have blown out Buffalo, but a win is a win), have a fearless QB (watch Tom Brady get up after he gets his helmet knocked off, and if he does get hurt, in comes the Franchise - Drew Bledsoe), have a coach who has something to prove, (Belicheck lives in Parcells shadow), and they have no pressure on them since they are already overacheivers this season. They have a great opportunity to make it to the Super Bowl. They lost to St. Louis already, but it was competitive. However, the Rams will win the Super Bowl by about 47.

[jets fan]

unless the Jets win out which will only happen if Joe Namath comes back. TMT, have you looked at the Jets' schedule? They have Indy next week and Buffalo the week after (not exactly fierce competition). They will have to go to Oakland on the last week, but Oakland's D is falling apart fast, especially against the run - Curtis Martin could have a field day! The Jets winning out is not as unlikely as you may think.

[Abducens]

Toomuchtime got his head out of his butt just in time to write his last sentence.

[toomuchtime]

On 2001-12-18 09:32, Abducens wrote:
Toomuchtime got his head out of his butt just in time to write his last sentence.


The Jets are the Jets, they don't win in Decemeber.

I don't think there is a more formidable team in the AFC than the Pats besides the Steelers. But the Steelers will be hurt tremendously in the playoffs by their special teams. If you think there is a stronger team without a history of falling apart, who is it?

[jets fan]

The Jets are the Jets, they don't win in Decemeber. What did they do against the Bengals on Sunday? Am I dreaming or did they win in December? Also, in each of the 1998 and 1999 regular seasons, the Jets fnished by winning 4 straight games which gives them a 9-3 record in December/January the last 3 years - that seems like pretty good evidence to me that they can win in December. Also, this evidence is recent - not the 10 year old records that people like you like to talk about that don't have any relevance.

The Jets may very well not win out, but it is VERY possible that they will, in which case your Pats can enjoy a nice Wild Card game, rather than a Division Championship.

[toomuchtime]

The Jets may very well not win out, but it is VERY possible that they will, in which case your Pats can enjoy a nice Wild Card game, rather than a Division Championship.


I wouldn't say very possible, maybe almost impossible, but not very possible, with two tough road games left and the fact they they still don't win in December. Very close wins at home against the Bengals who have now lost 6 is more like a moral defeat. (Just like the Pats win last week admittedly shouldn't count, but hey, sometimes its better to be lucky than good, and it was on the road.)

It's funny that the Jets finally didn't screw us over. That hit on Bledsoe in week 2 was a blessing in disguise, although it will hurt next year when there is a quarterback controversy.

[jets fan]

Where are the 2 'tough road games'? I'll give you that Oakland can be considered 'tough', but they're not as 'tough' as they were earlier in the year. There is no way I can consider the Colts as a 'tough' road game. Any team can beat any other, but the Colts don't go down under my definition of 'tough'. I won't guarantee victory, but the Colts aren't exactly the 'toughest' team we could be facing now.

To make you feel better, I'll classify Miami's road game as 'tough'! :smile:

[toomuchtime]

Sounds good to me. But any road game is "tough", and the Colts did just open a can of whoopa** Sunday. We'll see...

[Ray Finkle]

Why will the Steelers special teams hurt them more in the playoffs than in the regular season? The fact that they have won 11 games despite poor kicking and poor red zone offense is impressive. If they can improve on that in the playoffs, they will be very tough to beat. If they don't improve on it, their defense will still give them a good chance to win.

I think it's the Steelers or Raiders in the AFC. The Raiders defense has been horrid, but they have the type of offense that can put up points on anyone. I think the Ravens can still be dangerous, but only if they can find a running game. I have a hard time believing anyone will knock out the Rams in the NFC. With their defense playing so well, I don't think anybody can keep up with them.

[toomuchtime]

On 2001-12-18 10:37, Waterboy wrote:
Why will the Steelers special teams hurt them more in the playoffs than in the regular season

Because it is the playoffs. Teams play tougher, and games are closer. Kordell will not put up 330 yards in a playoff game. Kris Brown will also have a lot more pressure on him, not a good thing.

From what you say, the Raiders are like the Rams last year, but not as good, horrid defense + good offense = no super bowl.

Too many ifs for the Ravens, if they can get some points, if they can move the ball, if Priest Holmes comes back to them, if Ray Lewis scares the referees enough, ...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: toomuchtime on 2001-12-18 11:09 ]</font>

[Ray Finkle]

Playoff games aren't any closer than regular season games. In fact, I would guess that on average the spreads are wider in the playoffs. With the emotions involved in playoff games, a lot of times a team either plays out of its mind or completely falls apart. Blowouts in the playoffs are pretty common. Of course, close playoff games are memorable and many become classics. It's easy to look back at the classics and think all playoff games are like that. But they aren't.

You are right that Kordell probably won't throw for 330 yards in a playoff game. He may never do that again in his career. But that's not what got the Steelers to where they are.

The Raiders may be a little like the Rams of last year, although their defense isn't as bad and their offense probably isn't as good. My point on them is that they can win with a bad defense. They have the ability to put up points on a good defense.

[Anonymous]

On 2001-12-17 17:06, Indep wrote:
PS. Ravens fans: A gay QB tore up your precious defense! How does it feel?


if Kordell is gay, it's only because he made Ray Lewis bend over and call him "Daddy."

[Anonymous]

While I'm at it, I should point out that the Steelers took advantage of a scheduling quirk to lay the smack down on all of the NFL's candy asses. According to my pocket schedule, the Steelers' bye week came in Week 3. As we all unfortunately remember, Week 2 has been postdated to Week 17. Therefore, the Steelers had 20 days off between their first game and their second game. Since that time they are 11-1 and have outscored opponents 251-144, outrushed opponents on average 179-68!, outpassed opponents on average 207-203, committed 6 offensive holding penalties, have a turnover margin of +11, and have about 7 legitimate All-Pros (Stewart, Bettis, Faneca, Ward, Gildon, Bell, Porter). Even in the game they lost they outgained the opponent by a 2-1 margin and lost it on kicking. (It still counts as a loss, though.) We can only conclude that the Steelers benefitted from an additional 2 weeks of training camp that only the Saints and Bucs also had (and they did squadoosh with it).

[Captain America]

Even a casual observer can see the problem with that trainwreck of logic. Three teams were given 'an additional 2 weeks of training camp'. One team has had tremendous success since then, while the other two have not. So, 'we can only conclude' the first team's favorable results are a result of the extra time? What? There's no other possible explanation? That doesn't make any sense.

[jets fan]

Pitt has definitely impressed - they play in a fairly tough division and I don't see a noticeable week link. Except maybe if their FG kicker starts missing 5 field goals (any one of which would have won that game against the Ravens) in one game again, which is unlikely.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jets fan on 2001-12-19 10:21 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jets fan on 2001-12-19 10:21 ]</font>

[Han Solo]

They are playing the most complete football in the league right now. I was at the game Sunday night and both their offense and defense were extremely impressive. Except for maybe the final 5 minutes or so when the Ravens were able to drive down the fields a little easier. Their kicker could still easily lose a playoff game for them though.

If I could revise my pick that I made earlier in the season, I'd pick them.

(So you can make fun of me without going back through the thread to find it, I believe I picked Denver. D'oh!)

[Abducens]

Everyone sucks at preseason picks. The media has excused itself each year since '99 for its horrible picks - see for the 3rd year in a row the slew of articles about the "wacky NFL season." A few of them have had the guts to admit that they overlooked the only team to stay true to form (take a guess). The media has its favorite teams and that usually gets in the way of making decent picks, too.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Abducens on 2001-12-19 11:17 ]</font>

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

>>"A few of them have had the guts to admit that they overlooked the only team to stay true to form (take a guess)"

The Lions?

[Han Solo]

Good one

[Mick Fan]

Once the new schedule format starts next year, you'll see fewer of these "rags to riches" stories. The schedule for the bottom teams (5th place schedule) isn't going to be as easy as it will be in the past few years.

[jets fan]

Mick Fan, why do you say that? With less teams in each division, there will be more games against bad non-divisional opponents. For a last place team in a hard division, they will now only have 6 divisional games that they have to play instead of 8. The remaining 10 games will be against selected opponents. They will rotate which division they face in the opposite conference which takes up 4 more games - and they will be the worst 4 teams in that division. That leaves 6 more hand picked games instead of 4 more hand picked games - for a last place team, this means they'll face 6 easy opponents instead of 4. From all of this I have to conclude that last place teams will probably have an easier time.

[Anonymous]

On 2001-12-20 08:32, jets fan wrote:
They will rotate which division they face in the opposite conference which takes up 4 more games - and they will be the worst 4 teams in that division. That leaves 6 more hand picked games instead of 4 more hand picked games - for a last place team, this means they'll face 6 easy opponents instead of 4. From all of this I have to conclude that last place teams will probably have an easier time.


I don't think it means that they'll face the 4 (or 6) weakest opponents every time they cross over to play the other conference or other out-of-division games with conference.

Without 5th place teams, won't they be pairing up the 1st and 4th place teams in division X to play the 1st and 4th place teams in division Y and Z, for example ? Likewise, 2nd and 3rd place teams face one another in the extra games ?

[jets fan]

SD, the way they currently do it mandates that each AFC division play each NFC division once every 3 years. However, they will only play 4 (not 5) teams out of the division they face - in the case of a last placed team, they will play the 4 worst teams (not the winner from the prior year). Next year, they will just play whatever 4 teams are in that division, since only 4 teams (not 5) will be in each division. Like I said, this leaves 6 games left to be played - not 4 like it is now. These remaining games don't currently have any system that I know of that determines what they'll be. I believe it is done subjectively - next year, they won't force the Lions to play the Rams and they won't force the Bills to play the Steelers. Rather, they will give the Lions and Steelers easier teams to play and since they have 6 games to choose from (instead of 4), it will make their schedules easier.

[Anonymous]

Jets Fan ... true, things got turned upside-down when they got into the odd # of teams, etc. but I know the schedule USED to be set objectively and I used to have a copy, including the cycles for when each division would cross over and play a corresponding division from the other conference.

I haven't read what they plan to do but logically, it should be reasonably simple to draw it up with 4 teams/divison now ... 6 within your division, 4 against a division in the other conference, and the remaining 6 would be against each of the other 3 first and fourth (for a team who finished 1st or 4th) place teams in your own conference.

Obviously, they've got to figure out next year's schedule before they get to this point though.

[VP]

A 5th place schedule now (except for the 6-team AFC Central, which I can't hope to explain): 8 division games, 4 inter-conference games, and 4 intra-conference games against #4,5 in one division and #3,5 in the other. For example, last years NFC-W #5 was Atl. In the NFC, they play Central #3-GB and #5-Chi and East #4-Dal and #5-Az. This year the NFC-W plays the AFC-E, so Atl plays #1-Mia, #2-Ind, #4-Buf, #5-NE. The intra-conference foursome is hard for me to figure out as other 5th place teams (NE, AZ, for example) play 1235 instead of 1245.

So, 5th place: inter-1245, intra-3545
Current 1st place sched: inter-1234 (?), intra-1213

Next year, only 2 games will depend on the prior year. 6-Div, 4-inter, 4-intra (whole division), 2-other 2 in your own conf that finished same place as you. I'd say 5 games this year depend on the prior year- one of the inter and all of the intra.

[Abducens]

>>They will rotate which division they face in the opposite conference which takes up 4 more games - and they will be the worst 4 teams in that division. That leaves 6 more hand picked games instead of 4 more hand picked games - for a last place team, this means they'll face 6 easy opponents instead of 4.

Jets fan, jets fan, what are you talking about? First off, it is true that AFC-NFC matches will rotate every 4 years by division. But there are only 4 teams in each division and every team will play each other. Though technically accurate, it makes no sense to say "They'll play the 4 worst teams in that division." There's only 4 to begin with!

Then where you claim there are 6 "hand-picked" games, you either forgot or were not aware that 4 of those 6 will come from a single division within the conference. That will rotate every 3 years.

That leaves 2 games, and this is where you do get some help. 1st place will play 1st place, etc. between each division within the conference that doesn't otherwise meet.

Here's an example. We already know the NFC West teams will play each other (6), all of the NFC East (4), and all of the AFC West (4). The other two will be one each from the NFC South and NFC North based on how the standings shake out.

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

Did I mention Kordell Stewart is gay?

[Griffin 1]

On 2001-12-20 18:49, DonkeyPunch wrote:
Did I mention Kordell Stewart is gay?

Do you have a crush on Kordell Stewart?

[Mick Fan]

Wow. I didn't mean to start all that!

You guys did finally get it right. Only two games will depend on where you finished, rather than five or six. I never thought it was fair for a team to have a key injury, lose a couple of close ones, and go 6-10 in a decent division to come in last. The next year, they go 11-5 against a bunch of nobodys and everyone says what a great season they had. Those days are over!

[Han Solo]

I'm just going to like having an even number of teams again. The ease of understanding the new schedule is just a bonus.

Although I might miss seeing the Cards go West, that was at least a win or two each year, and someone guaranteed to finish under the Skins

[jets fan]

I will NOT miss having the Colts in my division. We haven't swept them since - it pains me to say it - 1986!!! That means every single year since then, I've seen my team lose to them! I remember in 1991, the Colts were 1-15 and guess who was the one team they beat!!!

Here's (http://www.nfl.com/news/2001/realignment.html) the realignment for 2002 with an overview of the scheduling formula.

Because I'm somewhat new over on the RF, I don't think I have everyone's teams down. Can someone fill in the blanks?

Name/Team
Han Solo/Pitt
Abducens/????
Sugar Daddy/????
VP/????

Anyone else?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jets fan on 2001-12-21 07:24 ]</font>

[Brad Spirrison]

Based on the NFL's scheduling formula, it seems like the 2 intraconference games (based on prior year standings) will have to be based on next years divisional alignments. For example, supposing that Tampa Bay finished in 3rd place in the current NFC central with a 10-6 record, but finishes with the best record among next year's NFC south teams. I guess that would give them 2 intraconference games vs. other first place teams like Chicago/Green Bay, Philadelphia, or St Louis/San Fran.

[Patience]

have done more reading than posting (here), butI am a Jets fan.

jf, you forgot to mention what team you are for :smile:

[jets fan]

It's good to see a fellow fan! I know moj is also a Jets fan, but I'm not too sure about any others, unless I forgot what people have posted over on the WC - which is a definite possibility!

I'm looking forward to Sunday night! The Colts have already beaten us this year, so we got it out of our system already. Now it's our turn!

[treyso]

Don't forget about me. I like the 6-Packers. Both kinds.

[Patience]

that 1st game the Jets were still in training camp for the new system. This should be a much better game.

Losing Glenn has hurt them much more than I believe most people realize. It has been a total turn-a-round from the middle of the Patriot's game when he went out. Thank God for the Bengals.

[jets fan]

I agree - it's a totally different secondary without him. I don't think he'll be back for this Sunday, but I AM hoping he makes it back for the Oakland game in 2 weeks. I think it would also be a very good idea for Curtis to have a big game - when he runs well, we win.

[Han Solo]

Actually, jets fan, I like the Steelers OK, but my true loyalties lie with the Redskins.

[Han Solo]

And I want Curtis to have a big game Sunday too, since he's on my fantasy team and I'm in the playoffs!

[VP]

Colts

Speaking of too much time on your hands...

To make the playoffs: win 3, NYJ lose 3, Sea lose last 2 games (this wk doesn't matter), Cle loses one of last 2 (this wk doesn't matter), Ten loses one. :lol:

I think tigernet is right about next year. Even without the above hallucinations, Indy could well have a first place schedule after finishing 4th of 5.

[Patience]

big problem is that they can't play man-to-man without Glenn, so they switch to a zone, with lessor personel.

I doubt he'll play this week.

I expect good games from Martin for Sunday & against Raiders. Maybe the Jets will even try a play-action on some of their passes

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

On 2001-12-20 19:29, Griffin wrote:

On 2001-12-20 18:49, DonkeyPunch wrote:
Did I mention Kordell Stewart is gay?

Do you have a crush on Kordell Stewart?

Jealous?

[jets fan]

We now have an update on the AFC playoff picture. Cleveland, Denver, Indianapolis and Tennessee are eliminated. Pittsburgh and Oakland are in, so we have Miami, New England, Seattle, Baltimore and the Jets fighting for 4 spots. Seattle has the worst chance of making it - they have to win out and the Jets have to lose twice. To be honest, I have to say that the Jets and Oakland have the most control over their fate. If either wins out, they will lock up the 2nd seed and a first round bye. Oakland can still get the #1 seed if Pittsburgh falls apart. That January 6th game between Oakland and the Jets is going to be VERY important!!! This is what it's all about!

[Cannonball]

Bills 14
Jets 9

Tough break, jets fan.

YEAH BILLS!!!

[jets fan]

Yeah, that game sucked pretty bad! We had our chances (plenty of them) but to no avail. Hopefully we can take car of business next week against Oakland. We better, otherwise we'll have to rely on help (KC has to beat Seattle), and I HATE doing that!

[moj]

Jets Fan:
We deserve whatever happens to our team. I have seen some bad offensive play calls in football, but the Jets really blew it by throwing over the middle, and short with 12 seconds left. Did they really think that they could get back to the line in time? Even if they could, what advantage did a 3 yard gain give them?

With 13 seconds left, you can throw 3 quick pops to the endzone, or even one short of the endzone at the sidelines.

I would fire the offensive coordinator (Hackett) now. I would not even let him be there for week 17. He should not have a called a play where Vinny could dump it off short and over the middle. Also, Vinny has been around long enough to know better, so it is time to dump him as well.

Our best chance at the playoffs is KC beating Seattle. The way we have made second rate running backs look all year, Oakland is going to run up 200+ rush yards.

Typical Jets December. Happy New Year.

moj

and to think ... just a few weeks ago I was looking into buying Superbowl tickets. :smile:

[Abducens]

blah blah blah fishcakes

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Abducens on 2001-12-31 09:01 ]</font>

[jets fan]

moj, I was just as P/Oed as you were!Regardless of the bad play call, you're right in that Vinny has to know that he can't throw it over the middle. But what got me even more flaming was when Vinny threw that INT where Phil Hansen batted it up into the air and caught it! Vinny - you've been in the league how many years - you've heard it so many times: YOU HAVE TO FIND A LANE TO THROW THROUGH!!!

I also was very unimpressed with the defensive effort. They were running all over us and Van Pelt was picking us apart all game. If you look at the stats (http://scores.nfl.com/scores/2001/gamebooks/NYJ_Gamebook_1230.htm), it's strange that the number of 1st downs is even, but the Bills had about 9 more minutes worth of possession time and the turnovers will ALWAYS kill you.

But, when all is said and done, it's not over yet. Oakland has now lost 2 in a row and I'm not scared of them. Their run defense is worse than ours is right now, and Gannon has been throwing a lot of INTs recently. We WILL need to put forth an effort that is at least 100% better than what we did against the Bills, but its definitely possible. I'll still be cheering them on! J-E-T-S! Jets! Jets! Jets!!!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jets fan on 2001-12-31 09:08 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jets fan on 2001-12-31 09:08 ]</font>

[treyso]

Why can't you give me that tip MacDaddy? The Jets let me down. At least my Pack didn't. Oh god, they almost did. Spergon Lose is terrible and I took a dump in my pants when he threw a TD pass. Thanks to the 9ers for losing, now we just need the Bears to have one slip up for a first round bye.

[jets fan]

That might be a tough one badger - the bears have the Jags next Sunday and the Jags are less than scary, especially when they're going to a VERY cold place. It's possible though.

Yeah, the Jets better get their sh*t together out their in Oakland - you can't rely on other teams, as we found out in San Diego! Gomer's looking for you over on the WC.

[jets fan]

FYI, the Chargers just fired Mike Riley. (http://espn.go.com/nfl/news/2001/1229/1302773.html)

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

On 2001-12-31 09:00, Abducens wrote:
blah blah blah fishcakes



blah blah blah gay quarterback

[Anonymous]

At this moment, my Superbowl champion expectations are:
50% Rams
20% Steelers
10% Raiders
8% Bears
5% Packers
2% 49ers
1% Eagles
1% Dolphins
3% Other
I’ll be pulling for the Steelers.

[jets fan]

A lot of people are putting NE up there to advance in the playoffs. If they win tomorrow, they'll host a playoff game and maybe get a bye (if Oakland cooperates). We'll see.

[toomuchtime]

jets fan,

What happened? I thought the Jets had a "very good possibility" of winning out. So I guess this means the Pats are going to win the division this year? I do hope the J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS win this week so the Pats will get a bye.

Does anyone read Bill Simmons on ESPN Page 2? My favorite line from him was in yesterday's column:

"The Jets looked good for a while, but when Vinny Testaverde is your quarterback, Vinny Testaverde is your quarterback."

[Cannonball]

A few years ago, when the Giants fans disgraced themselves by hurling ice balls onto the field, there was worry that the next week would see the same rowdy behavior by the Jets fans, who were 1-14 going into the 16th week. Quite the contrary, the Jets fans were well behaved, and some of the signs were hilarious. One fan held up a sign reading "Giants fans throw snowballs, Jets fans throw up." Another classic was a sign that read:

JETS
Just
End
The
Season!

Heh heh heh.

[sb_jim]

There is an old bumper sticker in San Diego that I still see sometimes:

Go Chargers, and take the Padres with you!

[jets fan]

CM, any 'fan' that holds up a sign like that is no 'fan' at all.

TMT, the beauty of saying "a very good possibility" is that it guarantees nothing. I still say that at that point, they had a very good possibility of winning out. I noticed you didn't say anything about that after the Jets beat the Colts.

[toomuchtime]

JF, I was just waiting for a good opportunity, I was going to say it in the 4th quarter of the Colts game, good thing I waited. I am on your side this weekend though...

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

>>"CM, any 'fan' that holds up a sign like that is no 'fan' at all."

Yeah! A real fan would stay home!

[Cannonball]

Big MacDaddy's "Locks of the Week":

Buffalo over Miami. Yeah Bills, squish those fish!

Oakland over NY Jets - picked 'cause it's fun to give jets fan grief.

[moj]

J-E-T-S Jets Jets Jets

That was a very exciting game. I sat in the bar with about 20 other Jets fans. The place was dead silent when Hall came onto the field, and erupted shortly after. It was one of tne finer times to be a Jets fan.

Now, we either have to go back to Oakland next week or travel to Miami.

Jets Fan: Can you get me superbowl tix? :smile:

[Shrek]

As a former Cleveland area boy, only one thought is on my mind tonight. Go Vikes.

[jets fan]

Cannonball, so much for your 'locks of the week'! It's fun to give CM grief!

What a game!!! That was one of the best field goals I've seen in a long time - clutch!!! John, I'll never doubt you again!!! How about Mr. Coles coming up with 111 yards on 5 catches - I liked that 40 yard screen pass on the 2nd play of the game!!! Mr. Chrebet, as usual, came up with the key 1st down catches. I can't wait for next week!!!

moj, whether it's the Raiders or the Dolphins, I feel good about the game either way. Yesterday, we had 3 turnovers (they had none), we gave up 3 sacks, had 7 penalties, gave up over a hundred yards rushing and we still won the game. Imagine what we could do to them if we bring our A game? As for the Dolphins, we have beaten them 8 straight times - they haven't beaten us since 1997. I don't need to say anymore.

I'm a happy man!!! Yahoooooooooooo!!!

:smile::):) :grin:

J-E-T-S!!! Jets! Jets! Jets!!!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jets fan on 2002-01-07 09:07 ]</font>

[Cannonball]

Rats!

Yes, that was a GREAT kick by Hall, especially considering the poor snap. At Wisconsin Hall was usually better on the long range kicks than on the chip shots. The Jets are lucky to have him.

[toomuchtime]

I think yesterday was the first time I rooted for the J-E-T-S in a while. I am pretty psyched that they squandered their first round bye and gave it to the Pats by losing to the lowly Bills last week. Hopefully they will do us a favor again and knock out a good team next week and then play the Pats and send the Pats to the AFC championship!!!!!!!!

[Mick Fan]

Does anybody else notice that two teams with fifth-place schedules wound up getting first round byes (Pats & Bears)? Both of them were the two "best" fifth place teams last year, with records of 5-11.

We won't see this happen next year. In their 2002 scheduling format release, the NFL acknowledged that the new schedule system gives less credence to where a team finishes.

http://www.nfl.com/ce/multi/0,3783,4414598,00.html

[Patience]

Tupa was incredible on the kick hold.

Next biggest play of the game was the Gannon over throw on the prior 3rd down play.

Lets do it again

[jets fan]

Patience, I saw PTI last night and Mike Wilbon said that the kick was the most clutch play of the entire NFL season! That is all a matter of opinion, but being a Jets fan, I'll agree with him!

I can't wait for Saturday!!!

J-E-T-S!!! Jets! Jets! Jets!

[Abducens]

I'll have to catch PTI Monday to hear Wilbon's pity party after his favorite team loses in Philly.

[jets fan]

There might be a lot of fog in that Eagles/Bears Divisional Playoff Game!!! Anyone remember?

[Patience]

The kick was great. If Groh was still the coach Hall wouldn't have even still been on the team.

wasn't that a Monday night game? with the Fog?

Tampa will freeze in Philly, hello Mr. Spurrier.

[Anonymous]

The Fog Bowl was a playoff game. Randall Cunningham at QB.

[jets fan]

TTT's correct. It was a Divisional Playoff game at Soldier Field after the 1988 season. It was the old Mike Ditka vs. Buddy Ryan days. For the record, the Bears won.

[Indep]

On 2001-12-21 07:23, jets fan wrote:
I will NOT miss having the Colts in my division. We haven't swept them since - it pains me to say it - 1986!!! That means every single year since then, I've seen my team lose to them! I remember in 1991, the Colts were 1-15 and guess who was the one team they beat!!!

Here's (http://www.nfl.com/news/2001/realignment.html) the realignment for 2002 with an overview of the scheduling formula.

Because I'm somewhat new over on the RF, I don't think I have everyone's teams down. Can someone fill in the blanks?

Name/Team
Han Solo/Pitt
Abducens/????
Sugar Daddy/????
VP/????

Anyone else?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jets fan on 2001-12-21 07:24 ]</font>



Put me down for the Steelers, since they invented running & good defense. (kidding on the last part)

[Brad Spirrison]

mr. nacho,

the eagles were only able to score 3 points against the 49ers. What makes you think that they can do any better vs. the NFL's best scoring defense in the divisional playoffs and on the road no less?

[Anonymous]

Actually the Eagles played better on the road. 7-1 including the meaningless last game at Tampa. The lone loss was 13-3 at SF.

[Abducens]

Did anyone do better than 7-1 on the road this year?

[jets fan]

Yes, St. Louis ran the table. The Eagles and the Jets were both 7-1 on the road. Here (http://www.nfl.com/standings/) are all the standings.

[Abducens]

AH, yeah, St. Louis was 8-0 on the road. In fact, there was one game where the home team was lamenting something called "fall on the ball," if I remember correctly. Hmmm...

[toomuchtime]

While people are criticizing the two "5-th place schedule" teams, can we look at their division record, and acknowledge that that is also a major part of the reason New England and Chicago have first round byes?

New England was 6-2 in the AFC East, a division with 3 playoff teams. Had the Jets gone 6-2, which would have happened had they beat Buffalo at home by the way, they would have the first round bye. As we can see, yes the 5-th place schedule may help, but you need to win the games you are supposed to win to be successful in the NFL. The Patriots also won their last 6 games, beginning with the Saints, who were competitive at the time, then the Jets, and later the Dolphins.

Chicago was also 6-2 in the NFC Central, another division with 3 playoff teams, They also beat the 49ers (it was a ridiculous win, but a win all the same).

A teams record in interconference games is also a good indicator of the team's true performance, since they play 4 out of (usually) 5 teams in a division, where again the Patriots and Chicago were 3-1, and at least tied for the best record in their divisions.

[jets fan]

TMT is right about the division record. No matter where a team finishes after the last season, they will have to play the same slate of division games the following season. These divisional games are not necessarily "easy".

[Brad Spirrison]

Mr. N, we could also look at Philadelphia's 4-4 home record and if the weather is warm on Saturday, say that Tampa has a 50-50 chance of beating the Eagles.

[Mick Fan]

TMT, your point is well-taken. Nobody's saying that these teams aren't any good, but it's much easier to run up a good record when you have a 5th place schedule.

Consider, New England vs. Miami --

Interconference:
NE -- NFC West except for SF
Mia -- NFC West except for NO

AFC o/t NFC East
NE -- CLE, CIN, SD, DEN
MIA -- OAK, TEN, SEA, DEN

New England definitely had the schedule advantage. If they played Miami's schedule, it would have been much more difficult for them to go 11-5.

That's all I'm saying. In the NFL, where it's easy to get good quickly, teams that don't finish well don't need that kind of an advantage. I'm glad they're changing the schedule format for next year.

[Anonymous]

On 2002-01-07 15:23, Mick Fan wrote:
Does anybody else notice that two teams with fifth-place schedules wound up getting first round byes (Pats & Bears)? Both of them were the two "best" fifth place teams last year, with records of 5-11.

We won't see this happen next year.


That's some stultifying logic. All the divisions have 4 teams starting in 2002. There ARE no fifth-place schedules becuase there is no such thing as fifth place. Jackazz.

[Abducens]

Boy Mick Fan, he really told you. Booyah!

[Mick Fan]

On 2002-01-10 14:37, 3Sheets2thewind wrote:


That's some stultifying logic. All the divisions have 4 teams starting in 2002. There ARE no fifth-place schedules becuase there is no such thing as fifth place.

What I was saying is that teams that finish poorly (i.e. LAST) the previous season won't have the advantage they had in past years. In addition, the first place teams won't be at as big of a disadvantage the following season.


Jackazz.


How sweet of you.

[Mick Fan]

On 2002-01-10 15:07, mister nacho wrote:
I chuckle at the 7-9 Titans being the number one team in the AFC South. With 8 divisions, we're much more likely to see 7-9 or 8-8 teams make the playoffs in the future, especially with only 6 divisional games.


Very true. With eight divisions and only six divisional games, the chances of an 8-8 team winning a division title are good, probably better than 50-50.

[Abducens]

I love it. Wilbon was practically in tears on PTI last night over his boy Dungy's firing.

[toomuchtime]

On 2001-12-18 09:07, toomuchtime wrote:
It is all about the Patriots. They are 8-2 in their last 10. They will beat Miami next week - a game at Foxboro in cold temperatures. Their last game is against Carolina. So they will most likely finish 11-5, win the AFC East, and get a home playoff game, unless the Jets win out which will only happen if Joe Namath comes back.

Then, look at the other teams that will make the playoffs in the AFC:

Pittsburgh - won't be able to win a close game because Kris Brown is worse than a Pop Warner kicker.

Oakland - it's Oakland, they can't win big games.

Baltimore - not the same team as last year.

Miami - again they will have to play the Pats in Foxboro in January. Too cold for them.

Jets - if they don't fall completely apart, they should make the playoffs. They won't go far.

Seattle - if the Jets don't make it, they probably will. Matt Hasselback is their QB. No hope.

So, that leaves the New England Patriots. They are on fire. They are playing passionate football, winning some close games (all right, they should have blown out Buffalo, but a win is a win), have a fearless QB (watch Tom Brady get up after he gets his helmet knocked off, and if he does get hurt, in comes the Franchise - Drew Bledsoe), have a coach who has something to prove, (Belicheck lives in Parcells shadow), and they have no pressure on them since they are already overacheivers this season. They have a great opportunity to make it to the Super Bowl. They lost to St. Louis already, but it was competitive. However, the Rams will win the Super Bowl by about 47.



On 2001-12-18 09:32, Abducens wrote:
Toomuchtime got his head out of his butt just in time to write his last sentence.


Abducens, who has his head up his butt. It looked like Kordell did yesterday!!!!!

[toomuchtime]

On 2001-12-18 09:07, toomuchtime wrote:
It is all about the Patriots. They are 8-2 in their last 10. They will beat Miami next week - a game at Foxboro in cold temperatures. Their last game is against Carolina. So they will most likely finish 11-5, win the AFC East, and get a home playoff game, unless the Jets win out which will only happen if Joe Namath comes back.

Then, look at the other teams that will make the playoffs in the AFC:

Pittsburgh - won't be able to win a close game because Kris Brown is worse than a Pop Warner kicker.

Oakland - it's Oakland, they can't win big games.

Baltimore - not the same team as last year.

Miami - again they will have to play the Pats in Foxboro in January. Too cold for them.

Jets - if they don't fall completely apart, they should make the playoffs. They won't go far.

Seattle - if the Jets don't make it, they probably will. Matt Hasselback is their QB. No hope.

So, that leaves the New England Patriots. They are on fire. They are playing passionate football, winning some close games (all right, they should have blown out Buffalo, but a win is a win), have a fearless QB (watch Tom Brady get up after he gets his helmet knocked off, and if he does get hurt, in comes the Franchise - Drew Bledsoe), have a coach who has something to prove, (Belicheck lives in Parcells shadow), and they have no pressure on them since they are already overacheivers this season. They have a great opportunity to make it to the Super Bowl. They lost to St. Louis already, but it was competitive. However, the Rams will win the Super Bowl by about 47.



On 2001-12-18 09:32, Abducens wrote:
Toomuchtime got his head out of his butt just in time to write his last sentence.


Abducens, who has his head up his butt. It looked like Kordell did yesterday!!!!!

[Abducens]

>>Abducens, who has his head up his butt. It looked like Kordell did yesterday!!!!!

I'm a believer.

[Abducens]

>>Abducens, who has his head up his butt. It looked like Kordell did yesterday!!!!!

I'm a believer.

[DonkeyPunch (Banned)]

Kordell was *awesome*! I heard he did *6* guys in the lockerroom after the game!

[Pseudolus]

An interesting question from theTuesday Morning Quarterback (http://slate.msn.com/?id=2061298)Why Didn't They Pull the Goalie? The Eagles trailed 29-24 with 12 seconds left and the Rams punting from their 31. The previous St. Louis punt had come within inches of being blocked. It was do or die, so why didn't Philadelphia send all 11 after the kicker? Instead the Eagles set up for a return, Brian Mitchell got only to his 35, and the hook-and-ladder failed on the final snap. TMQ wonders, has anyone ever seen a football pulled-goalie—all 11 rushing the punt?

Has this ever happened? Is there an argument against it? With nothing to lose (except the moral victory of "beating the spread"), why not go for it?

[jets fan]

I believe it has happened where teams have set up no return. It's a philosophy - do I want to try to block the kick or do I want to set up a big return? Each has its advantages.