Steelers [Archive] - Actuarial Outpost

Not Mike

06-19-2002, 12:39 PM

The Steelers are having an UNBELIEVABLE off-season, setting themsleves up for 3 solid runs at the Super Bowl... they are locking down all key players to long-term deals that really won't start to really hurt the cap until 2005... only one player left to sign to an extension and that's Aaron Smith...

Actually, I really like the Batch signing... it gives the Steelers a backup QB with real NFL game experience that can step in if Kordell implodes or gets injured.... but, jets fan is pretty much on the money, the success of this team hinges on Kordell... the defense will be awesome, the running game solid, the O-Line one of the best, and quality WRs.... if Kordell stays the course, the Steelers will be in the Super Bowl... even with the poor performance in the AFC Championship, the Steelers really lost on two special teams TDs (the *other* thing that could slow them down)....

Steelers fans are pretty excited that we'll get our "One for the Thumb" 23 years later...

Merril Hoge (Banned)

06-19-2002, 02:36 PM

The Steelers are definitely the team to beat. They can really run the ball. Bettis will pound the ball and they can use him to control the clock. I have never heard of this Charlie Batch fellow. How well does he run? Can the Steelers use him to pound the ball and control time of possession. I cannot further analyze Mr. Batch until I know these things.

Thank you, and go Steelers.

Abducens

06-19-2002, 02:56 PM

>>if Kordell stays the course, the Steelers will be in the Super Bowl

Thank you for not forgetting my Rams when crafting this statement. :)

jets fan

06-19-2002, 03:17 PM

The Steelers are definitely the team to beat.

I have always been one to say that the prior year's winner is the team to beat, until someone knocks them out. So by my "logic", New England is still the team to beat, as much as I don't like New England. I can't wait for training camp to start so we'll have more to talk about. Bring it on!!! :D

Merril Hoge (Banned)

06-19-2002, 03:30 PM

>>I have always been one to say that the prior year's winner is the team to beat, until someone knocks them out. So by my "logic", New England is still the team to beat, as much as I don't like New England. I can't wait for training camp to start so we'll have more to talk about. Bring it on!!!

You may note that I called the Super Bowl upset. I'm so glad the f'ing Rams lost. I hate them so much. The Rams should go 0-16 this year. They don't have a ball-control offense. The Super Bowl proved you cannot have a passing attack and be successful in the NFL. It all starts with the run. Teams should be able to pound them up the middle this year.

Look for the Patriots to pound the ball with Antowain Smith this year. Smith is a real workhorse that wears down D's over the course of a game.

I also like the Jets. Curtis Martin is a tough, tough running back. He can utilize his upper body strength and wear defensive lines down with his attack. They should dominate time of possession with Martin.

jets fan

06-19-2002, 03:35 PM

I also like the Jets. Curtis Martin is a tough, tough running back. He can utilize his upper body strength and wear defensive lines down with his attack. They should dominate time of possession with Martin.

I always said Merril Hoge knows what he's talking about!!! :D

Here are a few controversial opinions:

1) Curtis Martin is the most under-rated player in the NFL.
2) Curtis Martin is the best player the Jets have ever had, with apologies to Mr. Joe Namath.

Merril Hoge (Banned)

06-19-2002, 03:41 PM

Thank you. Like I have said before, it is not easy doing this kind of in-depth analysis. Sometimes I have to look up the running back's name and be careful with spelling before I can write about their pounding attack.

Some people don't like my analysis style, but I've played football and know what it's like to get hit in the head too many times.

Curtis Martin is definitely better than Joe Namath. Namath cannot pound the ball and wear defenders out at the point of attack. You are a smart person, Jets Fan. You must have played running back in school. I bet you had a pounding, ball-control style. I like you.

Not Mike

06-19-2002, 03:58 PM

>>if Kordell stays the course, the Steelers will be in the Super Bowl

Thank you for not forgetting my Rams when crafting this statement. :)

The Rams? Nah, I'm giving respect to the Eagles, it's the all-PA Super Bowl this year....

Martz has already choked with the best team in the NFL in the Wild Card round and the Super Bowl... this is his year to choke it away in the NFC Championship!! Hey, gotta run up those Warner stats, he's on Mike's fantasy football team....

Drzy

06-19-2002, 04:08 PM

(lots of stuff)
This is hilarious! :)

Dooby Scoo

06-19-2002, 10:09 PM

Anybody else think Pittsburgh is the team to beat this year now that they have Charlie Batch? :D

dam, I was sure hoping the Packers would sign him. that would've put them over the top. I guess we'll have to settle for that favre guy.

Han Solo

06-20-2002, 07:56 AM

1) Curtis Martin is the most under-rated player in the NFL.
2) Curtis Martin is the best player the Jets have ever had, with apologies to Mr. Joe Namath.

Definately most underrated. He dropped to the 11th RB picked in our fantasy draft last year. I snatched him and he led my team to the playoffs.

Don't know about best Jet ever. That Namath guy was pretty good. Plus he has a ring. Time will have to tell on this one.

Abducens

06-20-2002, 08:04 AM

>>Martz has already choked with the best team in the NFL in the Wild Card round and the Super Bowl... this is his year to choke it away in the NFC Championship!! Hey, gotta run up those Warner stats, he's on Mike's fantasy football team....

Nobody knows choking more than the Pittsburgh Steelers lately. How many home AFC Title games have you lost now?

Anyway, look for the Steelers to fall back into the pack. Teams always overachieve the year following a change of cities or a move into a new stadium. The following year things revert to normal.

10-6, #3 AFC seed. I could see 11 wins given the stocking of the schedule with those perennial powerhouses Cincy and Cleveland.

Merril Hoge (Banned)

06-20-2002, 08:19 AM

Shut up, Abducens. What do you know? You like the Rams. They barely even have a running back, and he's practically a wide receiver. All things considered, I'd rather have Ahman Green. He can really pound the ball and wear out defenses. I told Ron Jaworski just that before your Rams lucked into a win that day over the Pack.

Ron laughed and said if it's Faulk or anybody, you take Faulk, but he's a quarterback, he doesn't know what it takes to win. I know. I was hit on the head a lot of times, so I know football.

As for your comments on the Steelers, you obviously don't know anything. The AFC North is the best division in football. It has a history of tough, tough ground attacks and real nose to the grindstone wear-you-out ball control offense. I say the Steelers go 16-0 with the #1 seed and an undefeated season.

The Steelers are awesome. They have a pounding rushing attack. Even if Bettis gets hurt they have Zereoue and Fu. All three of them can control the time of possession.

In fact, I don't why they don't just put all 3 in the backfield and direct snap to one of them. Let them take turns pounding the defense. It would be fun to watch. I bet they would control the clock for 45:00 a game. Oh my God, I get aroused just thinking about it. I better go calm down.

Not Mike

06-20-2002, 08:43 AM

Nobody knows choking more than the Pittsburgh Steelers lately. How many home AFC Title games have you lost now?

Anyway, look for the Steelers to fall back into the pack. Teams always overachieve the year following a change of cities or a move into a new stadium. The following year things revert to normal.

10-6, #3 AFC seed. I could see 11 wins given the stocking of the schedule with those perennial powerhouses Cincy and Cleveland.

The Steelers have dropped 3 of 4 home AFC title games in the past 10 years.... they should have definitely won two of those, including last year... they overachieved expectations in each of those three years.... Coach Choke is 0-2 as the preseason #1.... I'm looking for a three-peat....

Yeah, the Bungles really blew it up in '00 with that move to Paul Brown stadium.... the Broncos were pretty unbeatable last year as well... and we all know how well the Titans did the year they moved from Houston.... yeah, keep talkin', you really know what you're talking about....

Steelers, 11-5 or 12-4, #1 or #2 seed, first round bye... Cincy and Cleveland will both be around .500 this year, but the Ravens will stink.... the Steelers will be in San Diego in January, and I'll be there watching...

Merril Hoge (Banned)

06-20-2002, 08:45 AM

You tell him, Not Mike.

Abducens

06-20-2002, 08:47 AM

Not Mike

06-20-2002, 10:14 AM

>>Coach Choke is 0-2 as the preseason #1....

Who, Bill Cowher? Oh no, wait, he is 0-2 as a POSTseason #1. Or is it 0-3?

What can I say, the expectations are high. It must be nice to root for a team absolutely not regarded as the best in the league and no one fears. Yep, wish I were in that boat. :lol:

Yep, Cowher is 0-2 as a POSTseason #1 in AFC Championships... with teams that weren't expected to be there... so while the losses were crushing, the unexpected run was still exciting...

Coach Choke, on the other hand, has coached in the NFL for two seasons... both times as a preseason #1 (make this year #3), once as a post-season #1.... he's a solid 0-2... two years in a row, the fans of the Rams have talked smack all season with their only consolation being a low draft pick....

You can keep celebrating that Eagles' playoff victory last year, but when it's all said and done, you still weren't #1.... and this year, if Coach Choke can fight his way through the NFC playoffs, the Steelers will be waiting to destroy his world....

Abducens

06-20-2002, 10:41 AM

>>Yep, Cowher is 0-2 as a POSTseason #1 in AFC Championships... with teams that weren't expected to be there... so while the losses were crushing, the unexpected run was still exciting...

Yes, we certainly don't expect the #1 seed to actually reach the conference final. That makes lots of sense. :lol:

It must have sucked to watch the Patriots deny you yet another Super Bowl appearance, and then watched them take advantage of a Rams team that was clearly not on their game. I think even that joke of a Neil O'Donnell team could have beaten them.

Not Mike

06-20-2002, 10:51 AM

Keep bragging abut that Super Bowl loss, errr... NFC Championship win.... all I know is that the Steelers have as many Super Bowl wins as the Rams the past two seasons.... and after this season, they'll be +1....

Keep hanging your hat on those old millenium accomplishments... the only difference between the Carolina Panthers and the Rams is that the the Rams were expected to win the Super Bowl last year and the Panters weren't....

Abducens

06-20-2002, 10:54 AM

>>Keep bragging abut that Super Bowl loss, errr... NFC Championship win.... all I know is that the Steelers have as many Super Bowl wins as the Rams the past two seasons.... and after this season, they'll be +1....

:lol: That's what I love about this discussion. None of you can take 1999 away. You want to act like this last Super Bowl proved 1999 never happened. The Steelers keep choking away chance after chance, while the Rams at least snagged themselves one title and two appearances. And somehow the Steelers are ahead of the game.

The Rams: 2001 NFC Champions. The Steelers? 2001 AFC also-rans. Lot to be proud of there.

Not Mike

06-20-2002, 11:00 AM

Who's trying the take 1999 away?

That's the funny thing about this discussion, you actually think that 1999 still matters.... a lot has changed since '99, namely that the Steelers are better than the Rams now and weren't in 1999....

The NFL is cyclical, the Rams' cycle started before the Steelers' cycle.... now, the Rams are getting to the end of theirs while the Steelers' is just beginning.... and unfortunately, the Rams choked away two opportunities while having arguably the most talent in the league.... the Steelers also missed a golden opportunity last year....

The Patriots: 2001/2002 Super Bowl champs... everyone else? It don't matter.... enjoy your 2001 Champs T-shirt, it doesn't override the fact that your team choked in the biggest game of all...

Abducens

06-20-2002, 11:06 AM

>>That's the funny thing about this discussion, you actually think that 1999 still matters.... a lot has changed since '99, namely that the Steelers are better than the Rams now and weren't in 1999....

The Steelers are better than the Rams now ... Ho ho ho ... hee hee hee ... it is to laugh. Yeah, because you know the Steelers have made some pretty big steps! You're just being goofy now. News flash, lots of teams were better than the Steelers in 1999.

I love the Steelers fans. They provide the offseason stupidity now that Cowboys fans are finally quiet.

Tell you what, let's revisit this in November when the Steelers are marked as this year's "Whatever happen to..." team.

Not Mike

06-20-2002, 11:27 AM

The Steelers are better than the Rams now ... Ho ho ho ... hee hee hee ... it is to laugh. Yeah, because you know the Steelers have made some pretty big steps! You're just being goofy now. News flash, lots of teams were better than the Steelers in 1999.

I know lots of teams were better than the Steelers in 1999, and I didn't imply otherwise... the comparison here is the Steelers and the Rams...

The Steelers lost 2 of 22 starters and kicker that was terrible... they replaced the kicker with a solid veteran, they replaced Earl Holmes with James Farrior, and they replaced their weak link on the offensive line with a #1 draft pick (the position can also be filled from within)...

They also replaced their slot WR with Terance Mathis, signed their backup T/G, and their nickel CB.... not to mention giving long-term deals to all key free agents and many players in the final year of their contract...

Yeah, the Steelers have made some pretty big steps... thanks for paying attention, you're showing off your lack of knowledge quite well....

I love the Steelers fans. They provide the offseason stupidity now that Cowboys fans are finally quiet.

The average Steeler fan knows 100 times more football than a "diehard" Rams fan.... well, that's because most Rams fans have less than 5 years under their belt....

Tell you what, let's revisit this in November when the Steelers are marked as this year's "Whatever happen to..." team.

We can revisit it all year long and even into January... hopefully we can put it to rest on January 26....

Abducens

06-20-2002, 11:42 AM

Han Solo

06-20-2002, 11:56 AM

It must be nice to root for a team absolutely not regarded as the best in the league and no one fears.
Go Redskins!!

Merril Hoge (Banned)

06-20-2002, 11:57 AM

Abducens, you little turd. You listen up and you listen good. The Steelers are the best team in the league. Take your sissy Rams and flush them down the toilet. They suck. You know it, I know it, the whole league knows it. Their passing game is no match for pounding, ball-control attack centered on the run. Teams like the Steelers have the perfect balance of an up-the-gut running game and a solid D. Why, I wouldn't be surprised if the Steelers become the first team to win 3 straight Super Bowls starting this year. In fact, they should win the next 10. They are that good. So if the Steelers win a Super Bowl in the next 10 years, remember you heard it here first. Take your gay Rams and take a hike, why don't you. The forward pass will never work in this league. Thank you, and go Steelers.

Abducens

06-20-2002, 12:05 PM

*sigh* You're right, Merril, as always. I mean you did predict the Pats in the Super Bowl. You are truly a genius. But what should the Rams do? They are built for a passing game. How can they be competitive in 2002?

Merril Hoge (Banned)

06-20-2002, 12:11 PM

Thank you. I did predict the Pats. I am a football genius.

First of all, you need to cut those sissy wide receivers. Isaac Bruce should try out for the cheerleading squad. Torry Holt can work concessions. Proehl is white, so he is probably OK to keep on the team as a waterboy, or an emergency quarterback.

Move Orlando Pace to running back. I bet Pace would have a real pounding clock-killing style that would wear out opposing lines.

Sell Warner to the New York Yankees for no less than $10 and a bag of snack size Butterfingers. Hire his wife Brenda to take the snaps. She'll work for food stamps, which will be much easier on the salary cap.

Move Faulk to wide receiver. I have no plans for him, but I recommend you have him run routes that have him doing fancy-pants pirouettes and splits, to showcase what a freakin' namby-pamby player he is, catching footballs his whole career. That will teach him a lesson.

In Pace's place, put Mike Martz on the line. He is a big tubby man, whose girth will help block for Pace on the left side. Insert Georgia Frontiere as Martz's backup.

That's all for now, but I will post as I come up with more ideas. Thank you for your kind attention, Abducens.

Not Mike

06-20-2002, 12:36 PM

Fine, fine, whatever. Just explain to me how the Steelers are better than the Rams now. This I gotta hear. Position by position analysis would be most helpful, rather than things like "Bettis is the MAN!", FYI.

I can do a position-by-position analysis if you like, but you have to realize that the two teams play in different systems on both offense AND defense... the front 7's of the two team are COMPLETELY different as the Steelers play 3-4 and the Rams a 4-3.... but, here's a quick run-down:

QB - Advantage Rams.... put Warner on the Steelers and they win it all, no doubt... put Kordell in Martz' offense and you could be in trouble... but, the Steelers have designed the offense around Kordell and the power running game... the Steelers have better depth in case of injury...

RB - Faulk is the best in the league... could he be as effective in a power-running game, probably not, but he'd still be very effective.... Bettis is a great fit for the Steelers offense and Zeroue is a great change of pace back... I like the Steelers depth here...

FB - Rams use one sparingly, the Steelers always use one...

WR - Advantage Rams, but the Steelers WRs are very under-rated... Burress is coming into his own and Ward is very clutch.... ask me next year, and I may pick the Steelers... depth-wise I like the Steelers with Mathis, Edwards, and Randle El over Wilkins and Proehl...

OL - Advantage Steelers, Steelers are probably the top unit in the league.... Rams took a couple hits in FA this year.... the Steelers are very deep on the line as well...

TE - Advantage Steelers, Again, dictated by style of offense... Bruener is widely regarded as one of the best, if not the best blocking TE in the league... any TE can get open in the Rams offense...

DE - Advantage Rams, tough to compare... Wistrom is awesome, so is Aaron Smith... slight edge to Wistrom... Leonard Little compares more to our rush OLB...

DT - Advantage Steelers, Casey Hampton is the NT, Kimo kinds of serves more of a DT role... Hampton is a horse and Kimo is very solid... the Rams have better depth here...

LBs - Advantage Steelers, tough to compare because of the different schemes, but Kendrell Bell is one of the best in the league and only in his 2nd year, Gildon is overrated, but Porter is underrated, and Farrior is good.... Polley is very good and Little is as one-dimensional as Gildon, but gets the sacks....

CB - Push, Aeneas is very good, but getting up in age, and McLeon is pretty good... both Washington and Scott are very solid.... each team has a solid nickel back...

S - Advantage Rams, definitely the Steelers defensive weakness... Flowers can't cover and Alexander is all brains... the Steelers have better athletes waiting in the wings.... AA and Herring are very good, and AA will only get better....

ST - Advantage Rams, Wilkins is very good, as is Berger and the return game is always dangerous.... Peterson is solid, but no Wilkins (indoors does help, though) and Miller is very good, but he's asked to do a lot of directional punting....

Coaching - Push, Cowher has a proven track record but has certainly turtled in the playoffs.... Martz is a stat-hungry idiot who has failed twice with the best team in the league....

There's your position-by-position analysis.... agree or disagree, but it's very unbiased.... the Steelers have a better defense, the Rams have a better offense.... I tend to think that defense wins out over offense... also, the Steelers are very deep and have a lot of continuity from last season which is key.... the two teams were on par with each other at the end of last season with the Rams maybe slightly ahead, but with the offseason moves and continuity, I think the Steelers are the better team right now.

Merril Hoge (Banned)

06-20-2002, 12:43 PM

That's tellin' him, Not Mike.

Abducens

06-20-2002, 12:44 PM

>>There's your position-by-position analysis.... agree or disagree, but it's very unbiased.... the Steelers have a better defense, the Rams have a better offense.... I tend to think that defense wins out over offense... also, the Steelers are very deep and have a lot of continuity from last season which is key.... the two teams were on par with each other at the end of last season with the Rams maybe slightly ahead, but with the offseason moves and continuity, I think the Steelers are the better team right now.

I can agree with all that. You don't sound unbiased till this last paragraph.

This last paragraph has the look of "Oops, I sure put a lot of 'Advantage Rams' up there, so I better come up with some Steelers advantages. Umm, let's see, defense wins out over offense. It just does. The Steelers have depth, and continuity. Let's see him say the Rams have that. Hard to refute a comment like that too. Better offseason moves. Well, I'll just let that hang out there without any qualification whatsoever. There, the Steelers are better now."

You give the Rams ST too much credit, but it doesn't take much to beat the Steelers. Rams KR and coverage was terrible most of year but got much better late. Wilkins is not all he's cracked up to be. If the Rams try a 45+ yarder, watch for a fake instead.

Other than that, pretty good unbiased analysis.

Not Mike

06-20-2002, 02:04 PM

I can agree with all that. You don't sound unbiased till this last paragraph.

This last paragraph has the look of "Oops, I sure put a lot of 'Advantage Rams' up there, so I better come up with some Steelers advantages. Umm, let's see, defense wins out over offense. It just does. The Steelers have depth, and continuity. Let's see him say the Rams have that. Hard to refute a comment like that too. Better offseason moves. Well, I'll just let that hang out there without any qualification whatsoever. There, the Steelers are better now."

I think the last paragraph just has more to do with my being raised a Steeler fan.... and I think the rankings support what I said...

The Rams offense is better at the skill positions(better QB, RB, top 2 WR), but the Steelers offense is efficient (great line, good RBs, good WRs)... I think it can be even better if they open it up a bit on offense...

The Steelers defense is better (and would be even better if Flowers wasn't starting), but the Rams have some youth that might make them very good...

In Pittsburgh, you grow up with defense and running the football wins championships... the last two SB champs have brought this trend back... the Rams also had a very good D in '99 to go with that explosive 'O'... the fact is, you can't ever lose if you don't give up points which I think makes defense more important.... you obviously disagree, and that's fine... the continuity is huge for Pittsburgh... Kordell finally found a comfort level with the coaches, the offense, and the WRs last year and all of that is staying in place, it's a major reason that the Steelers will be great this year..... hey, I hope we get the chance to argue the week of January 26th, it would make for a great Super Bowl... I will be booking my flight to San Diego before the end of the month....

Ducky

06-20-2002, 02:17 PM

I see I have achieved my goal of starting a thread to instigate an argument..... :D

Abducens

06-20-2002, 02:26 PM

>>In Pittsburgh, you grow up with defense and running the football wins championships...

I think that's silly. Whatever wins, wins and be happy with it. If the Rams were a defensive team and they won 13-10 all the time, I'd be fine with it. A little worried about what the tiny margin of victory might say about how -really- good they are, but I'd be content to let the playoffs decide that.

The Steelers and their fans really limit themselves by throwing themselves 100% into this philosophy. In 1975 it worked, but today you need more options. Don't even get me started on how you guys sometimes act like you invented running the ball.

Someday the Steelers will have a high-flying offense and you guys won't know whether to love it or be aesthetically appalled by it.

>> the last two SB champs have brought this trend back... the Rams also had a very good D in '99 to go with that explosive 'O'...

Why do some people insist that the Super Bowl proved some style of football is better? If this were so, why does everyone still regard the Rams as the best team in the league? Why do they (absurdly) expect nothing much from the Patriots this fall?

Juggler

07-17-2002, 01:08 AM

All I know is there's some pretty CRAZY HARDCORE fans in the Pittburgh area and the games are DANG FUN to go to :) Anyone else gonna be at any Steelers games this year?!?! I AM!!!

Juggler

Han Solo

07-18-2002, 12:36 PM

All I know is there's some pretty CRAZY HARDCORE fans in the Pittburgh area and the games are DANG FUN to go to :) Anyone else gonna be at any Steelers games this year?!?! I AM!!!

Juggler
I'll agree about the hardcore fans. I went to their game at Baltimore last year. Let's just say the banter outside the stadium was entertaining.

Captain America

08-14-2002, 07:32 AM

All I know is there's some pretty CRAZY HARDCORE fans in the Pittburgh area and the games are DANG FUN to go to :) Anyone else gonna be at any Steelers games this year?!?! I AM!!!

Juggler

I went to one last year. I hope to go to one (or more) this year as well.

I enjoy their ball control style of play, the focus on running and defense.

If I recall correctly, the Steelers invented this style.

Right, Ab? :D

Abducens

08-14-2002, 09:30 AM

It's true. In Pittsburgh you grow up fortified with running and defense, along with 14 vitamins & minerals. For dessert - sexually ambiguous quarterbacks.

Juggler

08-14-2002, 09:45 AM

I've already been to one game this season :)
And I'm planning on going to at least a couple more

Abducens

08-14-2002, 09:50 AM

No games for me, but in '03 I think I'll make the road trip to see the Rams beat them. I'll wear tight pants and a leather muscle shirt to distract Kordell.

Not Mike

08-14-2002, 12:06 PM

No games for me, but in '03 I think I'll make the road trip to see the Rams beat them. I'll wear tight pants and a leather muscle shirt to distract Kordell.

No need to do that, Kurt will pray to his God to strike down all gay men, and his prayers will be answered... hey, it worked in the Super Bowl, right?

Abducens

08-14-2002, 12:46 PM

What Super Bowl? Chin the Choker should be more concerned with winning those tricky home conference title games, first, I think.

Captain America

08-14-2002, 01:06 PM

Chin the Choker should be more concerned with winning those tricky home conference title games, first, I think.

That's a low blow, but I agree. The guy drives me nuts!

Not Mike

08-14-2002, 01:12 PM

What Super Bowl?

XXXVI? Remember, Kurt prayed a lot and the Rams won on the last second field goal? Oh wait, that's right, God didn't come through for big Kurt in the Super Bowl....

I'll be looking to go to that Rams/Steelers game as well.... I'm kind of afraid to drive to St. Louis, though, with Leonard Little still in town and all....

Abducens

08-14-2002, 02:18 PM

Oh, right. XXXVI. That's another Super Bowl appearance that Cowher blew, wasn't it.

Juggler

08-14-2002, 02:23 PM

We'll see this year...
This'll be the year when they get their one for the thumb

Not Mike

08-14-2002, 03:28 PM

Oh, right. XXXVI. That's another Super Bowl appearance that Cowher blew, wasn't it.

What was the title of the Ram's highlight video?

"Mike Martz's fantasy football ride to the 31st draft choice"

Abducens

08-14-2002, 03:42 PM

Ooo... I think Steelers fans should know better than to joke about making videos!

Captain America

08-14-2002, 03:57 PM

Yup, that's definitely not funny.

Not Mike

08-14-2002, 05:20 PM

Ooo... I think Steelers fans should know better than to joke about making videos!

I've exorcised my Eric Green demons.... it will still be a few years before you can get over Vinatieri....

Abducens

08-15-2002, 08:04 AM

If you say so. All I know is the Rams are still regarded as the best team in the league. That's enough for me.

Not Mike

08-15-2002, 10:27 AM

If you say so. All I know is the Rams are still regarded as the best team in the league. That's enough for me.

That's nice to hang your hat on now, but in five years Mike Martz will just be another Bud Grant and Marv Levy... no one ever talks about how good the Colts were, it's all about Joe Namath....

Abducens

08-15-2002, 10:29 AM

Not Mike

08-15-2002, 11:33 AM

>>That's nice to hang your hat on now, but in five years Mike Martz will just be another Bud Grant and Marv Levy... no one ever talks about how good the Colts were, it's all about Joe Namath....

Yup, I guess Martz will have to settle for that HOF induction. Chin the Choker can go see the bust for $12.

This is one of the most idiotic things that you've written.... Martz has coached for two years and underachieved with each team.... Cowher has coached for 10 years and is regarded around the league and by his peers as one of the top coaches in the league, whether you or I disagree with it.... Cowher is one SB victory away from being a HOF lock (and he'll get that victory within the next three years).... Martz will fade into the sunset once the Warner/Faulk is over....

Abducens

08-15-2002, 11:43 AM

>>This is one of the most idiotic things that you've written.... Martz has coached for two years and underachieved with each team....

Don't get mad at me! You're the one who said Martz will go down in history like immortalized Hall of Fame inductees Bud Grant and Marv Levy.

Personally the way our conversation had been going I was surprised at the compliment.

Look, if it makes you feel better, it should be awhile before Martz is done terrorizing the league and get inducted. Chinny the Choker should be eligible for the senior discount around that time.

Not Mike

08-15-2002, 03:15 PM

Well, I don't think he'll be immortalized in the HOF, but he will be remembered as the guy that couldn't take the Rams over the top...

Seriously, do you think that Martz is a good head coach? And I'm not talking about the "offensive coordinator" role of his job, I'm talking about gameday strategies and decisions....

Abducens

08-15-2002, 03:33 PM

>>Seriously, do you think that Martz is a good head coach? And I'm not talking about the "offensive coordinator" role of his job, I'm talking about gameday strategies and decisions....

Don't dictate to me the terms on which I judge my favorite team's coach. I'll judge Martz however I like, thanks. He is an offensive genius, hands down. But...

He has trouble recognizing that he can't just ignore areas that are going awry, like defense in 2000 and turnovers halfway through 2001. He has no emotion at all - down 11 in the 2nd quarter of XXXVI isn't necessarily a problem, but they needed a screaming-at to get going, and you know MM isn't going to be the one to administer it. That's when I knew they were in trouble. One of the best coaching jobs I've seen is when Cowher did the onside kick in XXX, and you saw him screaming "Let's go! Let's go!" on the sideline. At that point, I thought, wow, I bet the Steelers win now.

I wouldn't anoint Martz to the Hall of Fame yet myself, but I appreciate your doing so in the comparison to 2 great coaches.

Under DV it would have been the Tony Banks show again with the Jerry Rhome whiz-bang 3rd and 24 draw play offense. The Rams ownership told DV to change or you're outta here.

So MM deserves the bulk of the credit for '99. He was the brains behind the 1999 operation. He's already delivered one title, so he has nothing to prove to me. The only difference between then and now is his job title.

Not Mike

08-15-2002, 05:34 PM

Well, I guess I think that some guys just make better coordinators than they do head coaches, and I think Martz is one of those guys... he needs someone else to keep him in line... his offense was/is awesome, but some of his coaching tactics are suspect....

Cowher, on the other hand, needs to give his offensive coordinator more freedom... the ultra-conservative approach isn't going to kill you on the average, but those few times that it does, damn it's painful.... he's a great motivator, and knows how to get a lot out of guys that aren't ultra-talented, but his gameplanning leaves a lot to be desired....

I really don't see Martz being ultra-successful as a head coach.... the true test will come when the talent deteriorates...

Captain America

08-15-2002, 06:50 PM

but his gameplanning leaves a lot to be desired....

Well said.

Abducens

08-16-2002, 08:46 AM

>>the true test will come when the talent deteriorates

Agreed. I read somewhere last year that when he draws up plays, he barely spends any time thinking about how the defenses are likely to react. He just draws up a bunch of O's with no X's a lot of the time. That's fine when you have the best players, but not when you're middle of the pack. We'll see.

DonkeyPunch (Banned)

08-17-2002, 05:38 PM

I think we're getting away from the real issue here, which is how does Merril Hoge see Kordell Stewart fitting into the Steeler's "pounding-up-the-middle" style?

Abducens

08-19-2002, 09:39 AM

Han Solo

08-19-2002, 12:10 PM

Dja see Cowher go nuts with his Challenge device last night. Apparently he wanted to challenge a Skins TD and the device didn't work. He went nuts throwing the thing around. If Martz or Spurrier did that everyone would be saying, what an arrogant SOB throwing a tantrum like that.

Obviously you want to send a message to the league that the thing better be working when the games count, though.
Yea, that was classic! He may have a a point, but it was tough to tell, since (go figure) the local station the game was on didn't replay the TD catch. That musta meant there was something wrong with it.

The officials IMO made a ton of bad calls in that game. I guess refs need preseason to tune up too.

I hope that game opens the eyes of some of the folks jumping on the Redskins bandwagon too early this year. Their execution in the 1st half STUNK!

Juggler

08-19-2002, 01:34 PM

during the FIRST HALF with the STARTERS in the score was 17-0 which is all that matters. and the score should have been 24-0 at one point because that was NOT a touchdown!

Abducens

08-19-2002, 02:09 PM

That is some intelligent analysis. How did Merril Hoge get Juggler's password?

Not Mike

08-19-2002, 02:25 PM

The game opened up my eyes.... the fun-n-gun is awful against a good defense.... they couldn't do anything against the Steelers first team.... 97 yards in the 1st half....

The Steelers 4th string secondary is terrible, though.... they got toasted by the 'Skins, but it was meaningless.... Tee Martin is also absolutely awful.... I'm ready to chip in for the moving van....

Antwaan Randle El is making the switch pretty well... how's it going for Crouch? El looked like a reach in round 2, but he doesn't look like a reach anymore....

Abducens

08-19-2002, 02:46 PM

>>Antwaan Randle El is making the switch pretty well... how's it going for Crouch? El looked like a reach in round 2, but he doesn't look like a reach anymore....

Yeah, Randle El has looked pretty good. Crouch is, well, there. Some catches in the 1st game against Titans 3rd string defense, that sort of thing. You won't see him this season with Bruce/Holt/Wilkins/Proehl/Yo Murphy/Dane Looker on the roster ahead of him.

Han Solo

08-19-2002, 09:47 PM

Not Mike

08-20-2002, 08:46 AM

Han Solo

08-20-2002, 08:57 AM

The game opened up my eyes.... the fun-n-gun is awful against a good defense.... they couldn't do anything against the Steelers first team.... 97 yards in the 1st half....
Maybe a competant QB would be able to do something with the fun 'n' gun at the NFL level.....one of which we don't seem to have on the roster. The answer I think may lie with the rookie, Ramsey, though not this year...

Why didn't Ramsey play? He had his helmet on in the 2nd quarter.... I thought for sure he'd see some action.... is the plan to keep him out for awhile or was Spurrier more concerned about winning than seeing what Ramsey can do?
Ramsey didn't get to camp until after the first pre-season game in Japan, like 2 weeks ago. He had some contract negotiation problems. It wasn't about Spurrier wanting to win the game more or seeing what Ramsey can do, the kid just hasn't been in practice long enough to be put out on the field.