View Full Version : Successful at work & at exams
I know that work-exam balance is always a constant struggle, but how do you guys out there do it? I took 3 tries to pass 3, and now missed Course 4 for the 2nd time with a 5 and have to face VEE and another sitting of 4 in May. With work not easing up (and wanting to be a successful consultant I can't let good opportunites at work pass me by) I can't see how I'm ever going to get through all the tests, if I'm having such a problem getting through the prelimary exams. What frustrates me is I feel with the right frame of mind and enough study time, I can pass but with a stressful work environment and constantly having to work late or unplanned weekend work, how can I make it work?
Advice? Thoughts?
From my own limited experience, it helps when your family is understanding and allows you the time you need.
The most important thing, IMO, is discipline. The discipline to give up 85% of fun things to do with your time and devote it to study, study, study.
You have 20 minutes free at work? Study.
You are driving to work? Mentally review random sections of the syllabus.
Sunday? If you spend less than 6 hours, you are behind the curve.
Weeknights? No TV, no movies, no DVD's—Study.
It sounds draconian, and it sounds horrocious—but it is the only way that seems to work.
Good Luck.
Cynic
01-31-2005, 07:47 PM
And no actuarial outpost!
Stick to a schedule. Study during the time of the day when you are at your best. For me it's the morning. I wake up really early and study a few hours before going to work. And I stay in most weekends to study. It's not easy to miss out all the fun, but it helps to think that you are going to have all the fun you want once you're finished.
Lois Lane
02-14-2005, 04:30 PM
either you have to study harder (i'm sure you are working your butt off, but there's always room for more studying), quit taking exams and focus on your consulting career (which i don't think would be an option for pension actuaries), or get out of consulting. i did the consulting thing for a few years, and found that i could not keep pace w/my colleagues who were passing exams while succeeding at work. and it got worse after i got married. so, i switched to a line of work where i wouldn't have to work evenings/weekends, and i wouldn't have to cancel studytime because of client deadlines. the obvious downside is that the pay is lower in this type of job. but i am passing exams at a decent pace now, and my quality of life, even during study season, has dramatically improved.
Yes discipline & family understanding are the two biggies. Actuarial Outpost, if used properly, I think is also an excellent study tool. In part, that is how I passed my last exam.
MarsLasar
08-20-2005, 01:24 AM
Being hit by actuarial gamma rays helps a great deal...though hard on the wardrobe.
DeaconMet
09-20-2005, 12:34 PM
I too am a working actuary and studying for exam 3, but I ma having the same problem as song. When I come home from work everyday, the last thing I want to do is pick up a book and spend the rest of my day studying. How do you achieve balance so you don't go insane?
Balance? Balance is acheived after exams are completed, tadpole. [insert wise-looking emoticon here]
j/k
On a serious note, your life needs to be a bit out-of-balance to pass the exams. Give yourself a little time to relax, but focus on the freedom you will have when you are done. It's not easy, which explains a frightening statistic I heard when studying for part 1 (may or may not be true). That out of every 20 people who sit for part 1, 16 do not become associates and 19 do not become fellows. :-o
Good Luck!
Kenny
09-20-2005, 12:53 PM
I too am a working actuary and studying for exam 3, but I ma having the same problem as song. When I come home from work everyday, the last thing I want to do is pick up a book and spend the rest of my day studying. How do you achieve balance so you don't go insane?
Study first, then work. I try to get to work and study for 1 - 1 1/2 hours of personal study time, then take work study time, then work.
The best time to study is when you are at your best, for some people it is first thing in the morning. For others it is late at night. Determine when is best for you and make that your study time, fix your work and other activities schedule around that.
Summer
11-05-2005, 11:32 AM
trying to balance it all is a struggle. really, i think most actuarial candidates face this to some degree. some more than others. it has been especially hard on me since i have been back to work after having my first (been back 2 months and studying), and i am also pregnant with my second. balancing family life and working enough to make a contribution and also feel as though you are learning and also study to be successful on your exams...the best thing you can have is a supportive family and a supportive boss (not all actuarial bosses are).
The Matrix
11-06-2005, 06:35 PM
With work not easing up (and wanting to be a successful consultant I can't let good opportunities at work pass me by) I can't see how I'm ever going to get through all the tests, if I'm having such a problem getting through the preliminary exams.Oh come on! How can you so clearly state the question, and not see the answer?
Now, based on what you've posted, you clearly don't have the drive, time, and/or talent to be both an actuarial student and a "successful consultant".
If being a "successful consultant" is your priority, realize that you may have a much longer tenure as a student, if you ever finish the process. Sure, you'll get good/great reviews and move up (which will offset the fact that you won't be receiving many exam raises/bonuses), but your ultimate career potential/portability will be limited.
If being an exam passer is your priority, realize that you may be given less responsibility than you feel you can handle, you may not get assigned to the most exciting projects, and (at some firms) you may be "persecuted". However, this will be partially offset by the buzz that you generate when you pass exams (which makes both you and your supervisor look good). And the exam raises will keep you current with your little cube buddies, who aren't focusing on exams.
You need to make a decision: do you want credentials or not?
If so, LEARN HOW TO SAY NO. Believe me, work and all the wonderful opportunities it presents will always be there.
Oh, and reread EVERYTHING Avi wrote. It's good stuff. I get tired of hearing people talk about all their social commitments two weeks before the exam, and then complain about not passing. Please!
Ailing Factuary
11-06-2005, 07:39 PM
I always thought it would be best to work in an insurance company first so that I could get some exams out of the way quickly since my work demands may not be as high as in a consulting firm.
Now I am realizing how little studying I've actually needed to do for the premlinary exams as compared to what I expected, that this was actually probably the best time for me to start in consulting. Ugh.
keeya9
11-11-2005, 08:08 PM
I really do believe part of the problem is that you are in consulting. I know the benefits of the type of position but just thought I would share a little about my experience (which is not in consulting). There are actually times that they are interesting projects that I miss out on or feel I am not matching my teammates (non-students) efforts. But then my boss and I discussed this and she replied how could you, its not expected. Part of your job right now is successful progression through the exams. That is a very important part of your job and the company will be as supportive as they can. I am not saying that there are still not times that it is stressful or that November 1st corporate deadlines can be pushed off. But it is nice to know that those in upper management consider you successful in your work position as well when you are successful as a student. And are understanding when responsibilities get shifted to ease your load during crunch time.
The Matrix
11-13-2005, 03:31 PM
I always thought it would be best to work in an insurance company first so that I could get some exams out of the way quickly since my work demands may not be as high as in a consulting firm.
I really do believe part of the problem is that you are in consulting.
And people wonder why consulting students have such a low regard for insurance students...:lol:
FSA at 25? Wow, that's impr...insurance actuary?...oh, never mind. :lol:
davynm86
11-13-2005, 03:55 PM
Forgive ignorance, but what is the difference between an insurance actuary and a consulting actuary? What do the job descriptions entail?
The Sad Man
11-15-2005, 10:05 AM
I passed more exams in consulting than I did in insurance. Having more free time leads to more sin and temptation. In consulting, it was Hell all the time, so the transition from working to studying felt smooth and natural and was almost a welcome reprieve.
_BullDog_
11-15-2005, 12:14 PM
Forgive ignorance, but what is the difference between an insurance actuary and a consulting actuary? What do the job descriptions entail?
very basic difference-
Consulting - you must please your clients who don't care if you pass or not.
Insurance - you must please your boss who cares if you pass.
You should be able to figure out which of the above will yeild less study time.
The Matrix
11-16-2005, 02:03 AM
Consulting - you must please your clients who don't care if you pass or not.
Insurance - you must please your boss who cares if you pass.
Another perspective:
The product sold by insurance companies is some abstract financial instrument that people buy to manage the risks in their lives. Sure, you help design them or price them or reserve them, but you're not out there selling them.
The product sold by consultants is expertise, as measured in time. If you ignore vacations, downtime, etc., every second that you spend studying is a second of lost revenue for the firm. When you're that close to the revenue, you could get a lot of pressure to "do just one more little project before you study".
Quiz: Which employer potentially grants less study time?
sticks1839
11-16-2005, 09:34 AM
It all depends on what type of person you are and your abilities, but a little advice on the subject. Work insurance first and pass exams, then move to consulting when you have both knowledge and credentials. What you're experiencing is very common in the consulting field...This is not my advice, it is from my father who became an FCAS in 1967, so he's been in the business a while. I followed his advice and have been working insurance for a little over 4 months now since I graduated, and I most likely just passed CAS 3 first shot. I had plenty of study time and everyone around recognized when I took my study time and that my work might slow. I felt I had plenty, probably more than I needed. I do get bored quite a bit at work with the slow pace, and I have almost never been given a deadline for anything, which might make me pick up the pace. But overall I think it's the right place for me right now because I want to get through the exams as quickly as possible, so I can start enjoying my time away from work more. Think about it.
azaremba
11-16-2005, 10:35 AM
It all depends on what type of person you are and your abilities, but a little advice on the subject. Work insurance first and pass exams, then move to consulting when you have both knowledge and credentials.
What happens if you can pass exams while working at a consulting firm right after college? Does that give you best of both worlds? I hear people argue go insurance to pass exams but compliment consulting in other aspects like the job being less boring. I think if you feel you would be better on the consulting side coming out of school then I am not entirely sure it is a good idea to pass it up for insurance just to pass tests. Then again, people do struggle with exams so it could help. But back to the top if you can pass exams after college in either field then let's put it in this scenario: 2 people interview for an very impressive consulting job, both havce 3 years of experience, both have exams, one is in Insurance and one on the Consulting side. Now there are many other little factors that we can exclude, but just based on the facts given doesn't the Consultant have a one up on the Insurance Actuary.
Not sure what my point is but interviewing earlier this year for both I found that many insurance actuaries main line of attack against consulting is the exam struggle. So with that said if you are not hindered by the exams than maybe you're in a better place?
davynm86
11-16-2005, 11:26 AM
It all depends on what type of person you are and your abilities, but a little advice on the subject. Work insurance first and pass exams, then move to consulting when you have both knowledge and credentials. What you're experiencing is very common in the consulting field...This is not my advice, it is from my father who became an FCAS in 1967, so he's been in the business a while. I followed his advice and have been working insurance for a little over 4 months now since I graduated, and I most likely just passed CAS 3 first shot. I had plenty of study time and everyone around recognized when I took my study time and that my work might slow. I felt I had plenty, probably more than I needed. I do get bored quite a bit at work with the slow pace, and I have almost never been given a deadline for anything, which might make me pick up the pace. But overall I think it's the right place for me right now because I want to get through the exams as quickly as possible, so I can start enjoying my time away from work more. Think about it.
Interesting, I think I will start off doing insurance then consulting. I think this will help me develop the people skills needed to succeed in consulting. At the same time I will have more time to study for exams. For whatever reason, I seem to have a problem with speaking in public. I'm not saying I'm anti-social or anything, it's just that I often trip over my words and go blank when speaking to a group of people. This is why I dislike doing presentations.
Is there a big difference in compensation for consulting and insurance?
mlschop
11-16-2005, 11:45 AM
Interesting, I think I will start off doing insurance then consulting. I think this will help me develop the people skills needed to succeed in consulting. At the same time I will have more time to study for exams. For whatever reason, I seem to have a problem with speaking in public. I'm not saying I'm anti-social or anything, it's just that I often trip over my words and go blank when speaking to a group of people. This is why I dislike doing presentations.
Is there a big difference in compensation for consulting and insurance?
i think it all depends on the company...i currently work in insurance (first actuarial position), and had an offer for pension consulting that was relatively similar. Insurance company offered better study time and rewards, and since it was insurance versus consulting, it was pretty much a no brainer.
And about insurance being boring, i think it's all what your interested in personally. i worked in pensions (admin, not actuarial) for a year and a half, and found it extremely interesting. But insurance is a different beast - but i'm enjoying it as well.
RedEye (Banned)
11-16-2005, 12:45 PM
Interesting, I think I will start off doing insurance then consulting. I think this will help me develop the people skills needed to succeed in consulting.
Where do I get these people skills in an insurance organization? I'm still not sure why they gave me a telephone.
sticks1839
11-16-2005, 12:52 PM
What happens if you can pass exams while working at a consulting firm right after college? Does that give you best of both worlds? I hear people argue go insurance to pass exams but compliment consulting in other aspects like the job being less boring. I think if you feel you would be better on the consulting side coming out of school then I am not entirely sure it is a good idea to pass it up for insurance just to pass tests. Then again, people do struggle with exams so it could help. But back to the top if you can pass exams after college in either field then let's put it in this scenario: 2 people interview for an very impressive consulting job, both havce 3 years of experience, both have exams, one is in Insurance and one on the Consulting side. Now there are many other little factors that we can exclude, but just based on the facts given doesn't the Consultant have a one up on the Insurance Actuary.
Not sure what my point is but interviewing earlier this year for both I found that many insurance actuaries main line of attack against consulting is the exam struggle. So with that said if you are not hindered by the exams than maybe you're in a better place?
Yes, if you find the busy lifestyle and work of consulting and are able to do your studying and pass exams, then that is definitely your best fit. But one more thing to keep in mind that my father pointed out. When working in an insurance company you often get to experience all areas of an insurance company, so you get a better sense of the whole business picture, which can be very helpful when trying to help a client run theirs better. Just a different type of background, but as I said it all depends on what you're good at and what you want to do.
_BullDog_
11-16-2005, 02:35 PM
Where do I get these people skills in an insurance organization? I'm still not sure why they gave me a telephone.
It is for throwing when your program crashes.
The Matrix
11-16-2005, 10:53 PM
Where do I get these people skills in an insurance organization? I'm still not sure why they gave me a telephone.
:rofl: This has GOT to be the funniest thing I've read all week. Thank you, Red Eye!!!!
I know that work-exam balance is always a constant struggle, but how do you guys out there do it? I took 3 tries to pass 3, and now missed Course 4 for the 2nd time with a 5 and have to face VEE and another sitting of 4 in May. With work not easing up (and wanting to be a successful consultant I can't let good opportunites at work pass me by) I can't see how I'm ever going to get through all the tests, if I'm having such a problem getting through the prelimary exams. What frustrates me is I feel with the right frame of mind and enough study time, I can pass but with a stressful work environment and constantly having to work late or unplanned weekend work, how can I make it work?
Advice? Thoughts?
Ever think about easing up at work?
Seriously... have a conversation with your boss. Tell him/her your poor performance on exams is at least partially because of too many responsibilities @ work. During any particular exam sitting, ask yourself... what's more important for ME long-term... this project I"m working on, or this exam I'm studying for. You don't go to work to help your company, you go to work to help/to better YOURSELF. Stand up for yourself.
_BullDog_
11-17-2005, 09:43 AM
Ever think about easing up at work?
Seriously... have a conversation with your boss. Tell him/her your poor performance on exams is at least partially because of too many responsibilities @ work. During any particular exam sitting, ask yourself... what's more important for ME long-term... this project I"m working on, or this exam I'm studying for. You don't go to work to help your company, you go to work to help/to better YOURSELF. Stand up for yourself.
And that is why I left the consulting side. Every student there was overloaded with responsibilities and managment was more concerned with making sure the clients had there deadlines met than students passing there exams. If a consulting firm has all the FSA's they need then often they're not worried about there students passing.
Woody
11-17-2005, 10:03 AM
Getting back to surviving studying with work and family, I have had lots of experience here. I work full time, and then tutor highschool kids after work in math (I love doing this, yet would stop in a heartbeat if I didn't have to do this). I also am married with two young kids (5 and 8).
I have studied in all different ways, but the way that works best for me is to NOT be a complete recluse from my family and any outside life. It's kind of like dieting. If you never allow yourself to have anything more than a rice cake, then you will explode and your diet will fail. I study at night and in the morning and during lunch and take company study time if available. However, I also play with my kids and go see a movie. In fact, we took our kids to see a sneak preview of Zathura the Friday before the exam. It helped refresh me as I was extremely stressed that night and I feel it really made me study a whole lot better that final weekend.
But as one other person said, your family has to be supportive of your quest, especially a wife or girlfriend, or your studying will not be productive and destined to fail. In hindsight, I wish I could have completed all my exams prior to getting married, but I didn't. It is harder now, but not impossible.
Lois Lane
11-17-2005, 11:10 AM
Now I am realizing how little studying I've actually needed to do for the premlinary exams as compared to what I expected...
on behalf of those of us who are not geniouses:
:furious:
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