Multiple Exams Passers

[Ponderer]

Thought this might interest you -

CAND# EXAMS PASSED
115 Course 1 Course 2
213 Course 1 Course 2
398 Course 1 Course 2
426 Course 3 Course 4
737 Course 3 Course 4
741 Course 1 Course 2
804 Course 1 Course 2
848 Course 3 Course 4
1096 Course 1 Course 2
1419 Course 1 Course 2
1420 Course 1 Course 4
1449 Course 1 Course 2
1720 Course 1 Course 2
1834 Course 1 Course 2
1861 Course 1 Course 2
1881 Course 1 Course 2
1949 Course 1 Course 2
2088 Course 1 Course 2
2101 Course 1 Course 2
2272 Course 1 Course 2
2273 Course 1 Course 2
2317 Course 1 Course 2
2417 Course 2 Course 3
2487 Course 1 Course 2
2507 Course 1 Course 2
2618 Course 3 Course 4
2756 Course 1 Course 2
2835 Course 1 Course 2
2847 Course 1 Course 3
3030 Course 3 Course 4
3039 Course 1 Course 2
3309 Course 2 Course 3
3310 Course 1 Course 2
3428 Course 3 Course 4
3518 Course 2 Course 3
3561 Course 1 Course 2
3608 Course 1 Course 2
3794 Course 3 Course 4
3983 Course 1 Course 2
3985 Course 1 Course 2
4055 Course 3 Course 4
4311 Course 1 Course 3
4333 Course 1 Course 2
4412 Course 2 Course 3 Course 4
4457 Course 3 Course 4
4482 Course 1 Course 2
4605 Course 3 Course 4
4626 Course 2 Course 3
4696 Course 1 Course 2
4855 Course 1 Course 2
4882 Course 1 Course 2
4968 Course 1 Course 4
4976 Course 1 Course 2
5302 Course 1 Course 2
5330 Course 3 Course 4
5359 Course 2 Course 3
5366 Course 2 Course 4
5370 Course 3 Course 4
5374 Course 2 Course 4
5445 Course 2 Course 3
5463 Course 1 Course 3
5506 Course 1 Course 2
5620 Course 3 Course 4
5647 Course 1 Course 2
5706 Course 1 Course 2
5721 Course 1 Course 2
5851 Course 1 Course 2
5871 Course 2 Course 3
5914 Course 3 Course 4
5968 Course 1 Course 2 Course 3
6004 Course 1 Course 2 Course 4
6113 Course 3 Course 4
6146 Course 2 Course 4
6321 Course 1 Course 2
6457 Course 2 Course 3
6539 Course 2 Course 4
6615 Course 1 Course 2
6726 Course 3 Course 4
6823 Course 1 Course 4
6831 Course 1 Course 2
6856 Course 3 Course 4
7409 Course 1 Course 2
7470 Course 1 Course 2
7500 Course 2 Course 3
7502 Course 1 Course 2
7531 Course 1 Course 2
8019 Course 2 Course 4
8566 Course 3 Course 4
8666 Course 1 Course 2
8689 Course 1 Course 2
8711 Course 3 Course 4
8916 Course 1 Course 2
8944 Course 1 Course 2
8976 Course 1 Course 2
8995 Course 1 Course 2
9017 Course 2 Course 3
9054 Course 1 Course 2
9193 Course 1 Course 2 Course 4
9392 Course 1 Course 2
9498 Course 1 Course 2
9572 Course 1 Course 2
9590 Course 1 Course 2
9701 Course 1 Course 2
9903 Course 1 Course 2
10134 Course 1 Course 2
10283 Course 2 Course 3
10408 Course 2 Course 3
10414 Course 3 Course 4
10553 Course 2 Course 3
10761 Course 1 Course 3
10766 Course 1 Course 3
10767 Course 1 Course 4
10775 Course 3 Course 4
10785 Course 2 Course 3
10791 Course 1 Course 2
10793 Course 1 Course 2
10802 Course 1 Course 2
10805 Course 3 Course 4
10822 Course 1 Course 2
10824 Course 1 Course 2
10868 Course 1 Course 3
10874 Course 3 Course 4
10880 Course 1 Course 2
10883 Course 1 Course 2
10887 Course 1 Course 2
10906 Course 3 Course 4
10921 Course 1 Course 2
10925 Course 3 Course 4
10935 Course 1 Course 2
11015 Course 1 Course 2
11018 Course 1 Course 2
11028 Course 1 Course 2
11057 Course 1 Course 2
11073 Course 2 Course 3
11083 Course 1 Course 2
11137 Course 3 Course 4
11142 Course 1 Course 3
11162 Course 1 Course 2
11206 Course 1 Course 2
11209 Course 1 Course 2 Course 3
11232 Course 1 Course 2
11239 Course 1 Course 2
11258 Course 1 Course 2
11294 Course 1 Course 2
11309 Course 1 Course 3
11312 Course 1 Course 2
11319 Course 1 Course 3 Course 4
11354 Course 1 Course 2
11361 Course 1 Course 2
11411 Course 1 Course 2
11415 Course 1 Course 2
11423 Course 1 Course 2
11426 Course 1 Course 2
11447 Course 1 Course 2
11450 Course 2 Course 3
11466 Course 1 Course 2
11468 Course 1 Course 3 Course 4
11479 Course 1 Course 2
11506 Course 2 Course 3
11513 Course 1 Course 2
11529 Course 1 Course 2
11537 Course 1 Course 2
11607 Course 1 Course 2
11999 Course 1 Course 2
12053 Course 3 Course 4
12353 Course 1 Course 2
12364 Course 2 Course 3
12764 Course 1 Course 2
13126 Course 3 Course 4
13143 Course 1 Course 3
13147 Course 1 Course 3
13148 Course 1 Course 3
13152 Course 1 Course 3
13163 Course 1 Course 3
13184 Course 1 Course 3
13210 Course 1 Course 3
13212 Course 3 Course 4
13219 Course 2 Course 3
13226 Course 2 Course 3
13230 Course 2 Course 3
13244 Course 3 Course 4
13246 Course 2 Course 3
13252 Course 2 Course 3
13256 Course 2 Course 3 Course 4
13268 Course 2 Course 3
13306 Course 2 Course 3
13309 Course 3 Course 4
13326 Course 2 Course 3
13329 Course 2 Course 3
13335 Course 2 Course 3
13336 Course 3 Course 4
13338 Course 2 Course 3
13341 Course 2 Course 3
13343 Course 2 Course 3

[rawl316]

these people that pass 3 exams at once, do you really have nothing better to do with your time???

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Certainly they're not here to read your question.

Out of eight, I predict at least seven with Chinese names.

I imagine "studying sweatshops." Or cheating. Or three different people taking the exam under one name (which is some form of cheating) with one admission ticket.

Also a possibility of their being genii with nothing better to do. There has to be some. Still Chinese, though.

[Gandalf]

I think you're giving way to much prominence to the cheating theory, especially when tied with a nationality.

In my daughter's public school, I've seen many Asians who study harder than the average student of European descent. And some who study less. And some non-Asians who also excel. There seems to be a real correlation of effort and result.

To the extent that there happens to be one or more non-Asians on the "passing three parts" list, is such a person suspected of cheating?

[PocketAces]

I don't think DTNF is talking about Asian-Americans.

When I was a grad student in the mid-90s, the mathematics department at the university I attended would not accept applicants from China into the doctoral program because it was common knowledge that the GREs were routinely compromised there.

[Gandalf]

Maybe we should get the SOA / CAS to identify the countries of all the passers? Or do we just assume any Asians who passed three must have taken the exam in China?

[Summer]

Not if their last name is 'Singh'.

[Packet_Storm]

They are from Tawain not China, then they could not be cheaters cause Tawain is not China unless you believe in the 2 countries One china or was it 2 egg rolls and one Kung Pao Chicken for $6.99. I think I saw Kung Pow, it was not very funny. Oh, I forgot about Hong Kong, they could be used-to-be British-but-now-Chinese-Szechuan-Cheaters.

:o

[Alya]

When I was a grad student in the mid-90s, the mathematics department at the university I attended would not accept applicants from China into the doctoral program because it was common knowledge that the GREs were routinely compromised there.

What?? When I was a grad student in mid-90s quite a few of the best people there were from China. I have no idea what their GRE score was since my school did not require it for admission, but when i took my GRE in Moscow (well, not quite China) it was administered by people from the American embassy and one would think it is the same everywhere.


Or three different people taking the exam under one name (which is some form of cheating) with one admission ticket.
And just why would they want to do it? How much do i need to pay somebody to study for C3 and pass it for me? And we all know that even if you passed it this time it does not mean that you can go in next time without any studying and pass it again.

Looks like you all forgetting that there are people for whom passing these exams means much more than salary increase - this is their ticket to America.

[PocketAces]

Alya,

Of course some of the strongest students were from China. The point is that because exam security was compromised, it was difficult to distinguish between strong applicants and fakes. My university (a prominent one) chose not to take the risk.

Why do you think your exam was administered by US embassy officials?

I agree that these candidates have strong incentive to pass. But aren't there two sides to that coin?

[Dr T Non-Fan]

I tend to think that the cheating would be government-sponsored. It's their government's reputation to do so. Despite awful human rights record, the Olympics will be held there. Hmm, wonder what swayed the opinion? Their swimmers cheat, their soccer team probably cheats.

I hope the SOA is already looking into that. In its defense, China does have a billion+ people.

As for the three different people with same name (legal or otherwise) taking separate exams, here's how it's possible (and I'm not even making money by writing a book on how to cheat):
1. One admission form is sent.
2. One admission slip is sent and received.
3. The first Chinese brother, who had studied for Course 1, takes the exam. Then he has to say goodbye to his family (you'all know the story), and the next day, the second Chinese brother, who has studied for Course 2 arrives with the one admission ticket and appropriate ID and takes the exam. Same for CB#3 for Course 3.
4. If/when they all pass their exams, all three will be able to claim they have passed all three exams, since they all have the same name and their name is on the SOA books and the SOA official pass slip.

Only wrinkle comes when they collectively reach ASA or FSA, and have to submit their names to the directory. In order to do this, they'll have to split the fees and not ever disclose to the SOA where any of them work. Can't display their shingle, either.

[The Drunken Actuary]

What kind of punishment do you think was exacted on brother number 4 who failed?

[mother goose]

As for the three different people with same name (legal or otherwise) taking separate exams, here's how it's possible (and I'm not even making money by writing a book on how to cheat):
1. One admission form is sent.
2. One admission slip is sent and received.
3. The first Chinese brother, who had studied for Course 1, takes the exam. Then he has to say goodbye to his family (you'all know the story), and the next day, the second Chinese brother, who has studied for Course 2 arrives with the one admission ticket and appropriate ID and takes the exam. Same for CB#3 for Course 3.
4. If/when they all pass their exams, all three will be able to claim they have passed all three exams, since they all have the same name and their name is on the SOA books and the SOA official pass slip.


You have one hell of an imagination! Such unfounded accusations!

You are ASS-uming that one family even has 3 children, let alone all wanting to be actuaries. The young ones taking exams now are probably product of the "one-child per family" rule!

Also, I assume their IDs are in Chinese characters and maybe the name in the admission slips, too(?). The proctor, who I assume is Chinese, will be able to tell the difference in the characters in their names and know they are different persons. See, those Chinese names are written Phonetically in English. So Chen, Chen, Chen, to us are all the same, but perhaps, they have different nuances in their equivalent Chinese characters. So to them, they are different names.

[The Drunken Actuary]

Wouldn't they have different first names anyway? I'm really not following DTNF.

[mother goose]

Unless they worship George Foreman! :D

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Thank you, in response to your stating that I have an active imagination.
Shame on you for believing in it. Where's the accusation? I said it's possible. I said I imagined there were sweatshops. Why haven't you created a debunk of this possibility? (Because it's true, right?)

The Chinese Brothers reference is to a children's book. TDA got it, and he's drunk! Consider them "brothers" in this conspiracy, not blood brothers. Or if this is too difficult, assume they are three different, unrealted people with the exact same name, or at least as the SOA and its proctors know it. They could have changed their names to be equal for all I know. It would even be possible to do this in the U.S., as long as there are different proctors for each exam, they wear the same clothes, etc.
I never said it would be easy. There's an implicit assumption that the proctors are stupid or blind as are the rest of the candidates.

The rest of your post now makes no sense, so I won't respond to it.

[TP]

I know that some of the deal with Asian multiple-exam passers is this:
We over here in the states take for granted that there is an exam center nearby. Now overseas, the only option they may have is to fly to an exam center; and if they don't have much money, they study for long periods of time for multiple exams hoping to only make 1 trip. Talk about alot of pressure riding on a couple days of exams. To me, I would advise studying for 1 exam, and learning to speak English. What good is it to have all these exams if you can't relate to anyone?

[Alya]

Alya,

Of course some of the strongest students were from China. The point is that because exam security was compromised, it was difficult to distinguish between strong applicants and fakes. My university (a prominent one) chose not to take the risk.
So your prominent school chose to loose some of the strongest students. Why? If they are not up to the standards of your school they will fail anyway and pretty soon at that. All it takes is couple Ds first semester and you are out, right? Or they were afraid that these people with fake GREs will do no worse than everybody else with the real ones?


Why do you think your exam was administered by US embassy officials?

Who else? There are not that many people there who can read instructions before the exam :) They probably see it as a promotion of American way of life. What else "Culture and Education" department of embassy is supposed to do?

[sb_jim]

What good is it to have all these exams if you can't relate to anyone?

There are around 1 billion Chinese in the world. Aren't we being a little ethnocentric?

Once I was in a job interview. The FSA told me that, passing exam does not equal that you're more superior. Passing is all depends on how you study, the efforts put in the revision and the quality of studying. I believe those people with 3 passes have much more study time and have a better study quality than those who fail. How about busy at work then cannot study effectively? I can't say cheating is not possible in the exam but it is very risky. Is it worth doing this? Even cheated and passed 3 exams however without much talents and ability in real job, it doesn't really safe indeed. As a Chinese in Hong Kong, I knows those graduate in China have very strong mathematical foundation and very very concentrate in study.

If Chinese equal cheating, do American means violent and racist and giant-corporation cheaters? (I watch the news, not storybooks). I can smell there is jealousy and nonsense.

[Drzy]

If Chinese equal cheating, do American means violent and racist and giant-corporation cheaters?
Good one!

Once I was in a job interview. The FSA told me that, passing exam does not equal that you're more superior. Passing is all depends on how you study, the efforts put in the revision and the quality of studying. I believe those people with 3 passes have much more study time and have a better study quality than those who fail. How about busy at work then cannot study effectively? I can't say cheating is not possible in the exam but it is very risky. Is it worth doing this? Even cheated and passed 3 exams however without much talents and ability in real job, it doesn't really safe indeed. As a Chinese in Hong Kong, I knows those graduate in China have very strong mathematical foundation and very very concentrate in study.

If Chinese equal cheating, do American means violent and racist and giant-corporation cheaters? (I watch the news, not storybooks). I can smell there is jealousy and nonsense.So when they get to the exams where they have to actually write, what language do they do it in? Whatever the above is?

[The Drunken Actuary]

Nice. I'm willing to bet his/her English is many times better than your Chinese. I understood everything he was saying and am glad for the input.

Let's keep the insults in the political threads where they belong. :D

[Juggler]

There's a guy in my office who passed three exams a couple sittings ago, he got 6s on all three of them, he is just a really smart guy and obviously did a lot of studying. It IS possible....

[The Drunken Actuary]

Yeah right, obviously he was cheating.

So when they get to the exams where they have to actually write, what language do they do it in? Whatever the above is?

sorry about my language :oops: , my writing is rough. But you know what i mean, right?

O yeah~~ I passed the exam with a 7, just got the result slip.

[The Drunken Actuary]

Don't worry about your language, I think we all knew what you meant. Congrats on passing!

haha! yeah~~~ :P
BTW i never cheat in exams (except once, cheated to girlfriend that i was ill. But I actually didn't want to go shopping with her and i studied @ home :P )

[Juggler]

Yeah right, obviously he was cheating.

lol, You're joking right? Because I know him very well and he wouldn't cheat... he didn't. And BTW. he's NOT chinese

[Summer]

Really? was he working? I personally was thinking that it was completely doable if they were only studying 8 hours straight for 4 months...then maybe it was possible.

But if these people are working?!? Must study crazy hours or be VERY gifted!

[Juggler]

Yes he was working and he REALLY did do it... he DID get 6s on all three of them though... so he could have just as easily gotten 5s on all three of them. He is an incredibly smart guy and I don't think he's married. And I do believe he had taken 1 or 2 of those exams in the past and failed them. So it wasn't like the material on all three exams was brand new to him

[Packet_Storm]

I think you did not exam long enough to find the cheat.

He sold his soul!!! Three 6's... you missed that!@!!!!

I would very nice to you or something bad might happen to you...cause it could not be that he worked very hard and studied well.


It has to be he sold his soul. :crazy:

My point. How does this affect my paycheck?

[Tomoyo]

The 8 triple-passers are:
1,2,3 Wang, Fu G.
1,2,3 Wong, Chee C.
1,2,4 Liu, Xuewen
1,2,4 Zhou, Feng
1,3,4 Xu, Yuchen
1,3,4 Zhang, Lei
2,3,4 Gu, Xiao C.
2,3,4 Lu, Ke

Congratulations! :toast:

[Milwaukee Dave]

Looks like 8 for 8 in the Chineese department...of course we don't have C6 results yet, do we?

[E. Blackadder]

Gu? I hate that name. It makes me puke! Too bad you're named Gu -- You'll be the first to feel my sword today. :)

[ASA_Woman]

Gu? I hate that name. It makes me puke! Too bad you're named Gu -- You'll be the first to feel my sword today. :)

I loved that movie! :)

[Leon]

I imagine "studying sweatshops." Or cheating. Or three different people taking the exam under one name (which is some form of cheating) with one admission ticket.


I tend to think that the cheating would be government-sponsored. It's their government's reputation to do so. Despite awful human rights record, the Olympics will be held there. Hmm, wonder what swayed the opinion? Their swimmers cheat, their soccer team probably cheats.


Shame on you for believing in it. Where's the accusation? I said it's possible. I said I imagined there were sweatshops. Why haven't you created a debunk of this possibility? (Because it's true, right?)


As a then-mainland-Chinese-now-student-in-US, I took 2 exams this past May and got a 10 and an 8. I did it through my own effort, without any cheating or any help from others. Just IMHO, I don't feel passing more than 1 exams at one time is all that unthinkable. As to why it seems Chinese perform better -- maybe their mathematical background is stronger, or maybe they have more flexible time to study since they are students (like me), or maybe simply because they don't spend much time on Internet like this message board (that's why I only find this thread today, not earlier). I guess it's a combination of those factors.

At some point, we have to admit some people can do certain things better than others, without necessarily being cheaters. Speaking from my experience: on average, mainland Chinese students (I don't know about Hong Kong and Taiwan, so can't say for them) have better mathematical skills than American students, due to their rigorous training from elementary school all the way through college. (Of course this kind of education results in weakness too, like less creativity and presentation skills). C1 C3 C4 are all about mathematics. It is quite reasonable Chinese can do better there. I once came across the statistics of the exam results on a university's website in China. If I remember correctly, the passing rate was somewhere in the 70s or 80s (%) for C1 C3 C4 and less than 50 for C2. You could have a reasonable guess why. On their discussion board, all they talked about were things like sharing materials, experience, study groups, news, etc. No signs of cheating. Those students follow the same study notes as we do, read the same text books (in English) listed on the study notes (there maybe some book copying there because they don't have the money to buy the books, which I'd rather not call it cheat), take tests in SOA authorized centers using the same papers as we do. The only difference seems to be they pay a discounted registration fee, which is again, understandable, considering their pocket depth. BTW, I didn't see they mention those study guides like Actex, Mahler's, etc. (I didn't use any of those either.) I've never been to that university. So I am not sure. But I can reasonably guess there is no systematic cheating there. On the other hand, passing exams isn't everything for a good actuary, is it? Those who breezed through exams may find themselves sweating in a real working environment. My little advice: when other people perform better, try to respect, not suspect; try to work harder, not whine louder.

It seems the time I spend here today is way beyond the normal range. Why I just could not stop? :)

Since other "Chinese-cheating" things were mentioned, I'd like to make a little defense here. GRE -- I took the test in China in 1996. I didn't cheat. I didn't see any other people cheating there in that room (or maybe I didn't have time to check). And all my friends, as far as I know, didn't cheat and even didn't talk about how to cheat. I can only speak of that test in that year because that's what I experienced. Yeah. There might be some bad apples out there that I didn't see. But I believe the majorities are good. Shall we make an issue here to list GRE as one of the things Chinese cheated? Shall we use the same logic to say American corporations are cheaters? If yes, why do you work for them? One thing I am sure -- Chinese GRE numbers are more trustable than those on Corporate America's financial reports. Swimmers -- Yeah, some (not all) swimmers cheated. They were punished and banned for their wrong-doings. How about American executives who cheated? Is any of them sent to jail yet? Oops, sorry, we forgot we had an American president who cheated in court testimony, under oath. :oops: And we could "imagine" "it's possilbe" another president sold stocks on insider information in 1980s since he doesn't want to release the records, but let's just hope he is not like his "little kenny boy", OK? I don't mean to offend American people. I have to say, seriously, most people I met are really great and honest. I just hope when people link "cheating" to "Chinese" in their imagination, they'd better think of these things first, think of themselves first. Moreover, not all imaginations are suitable to be released on public message board, they'd better stay where they belong to.

Add two things:
1. Chinese soccer team -- Women's -- They lost to Americans at least twice in major championship finals (one was the 1996 Atlanta Olympics) without winning once. Shall we say Americans cheated more? Men's -- I don't think they cheat. They simply suck.
2. I am not living in a "studying sweatshops." I have a happy family, play computer games, surf Internet, go to movies, parties, and church... :P

[MathGuy]

...

[Mr. BoH]

Add two things:
1. Chinese soccer team -- Women's -- They lost to Americans at least twice in major championship finals (one was the 1996 Atlanta Olympics) without winning once. Shall we say Americans cheated more? Men's -- I don't think they cheat. They simply suck.


Ummm.... did you watch the World Cup? The American men's team made the round of 8.

How did the Chinese team fare? Lost all three of their games, didn't even score one goal. Maybe they should have tried cheating...

[Gandalf]

Add two things:
1. Chinese soccer team -- Women's -- They lost to Americans at least twice in major championship finals (one was the 1996 Atlanta Olympics) without winning once. Shall we say Americans cheated more? Men's -- I don't think they cheat. They simply suck.


Ummm.... did you watch the World Cup? The American men's team made the round of 8.

How did the Chinese team fare? Lost all three of their games, didn't even score one goal. Maybe they should have tried cheating...

Ummm... as I read Leon's post, I think "they" under Men's refers to China's Men's team, not US Men's team. Surely the structure of his post makes that of description of "Chinese soccer team -- Men's --"

I think Leon made some very good points.

[The Drunken Actuary]

I agree with Gandalf. Both about the soccer thing and the points Leon made.

[Mr. BoH]

Okay, you're right. I read it wrong the first time.

I do agree that his points about exams were very valid.

[Juggler]

Not to change the subject... but my teacher passed courses 4 and 6 and he's not chinese :) And he certainly has a life

[burton leon reynolds]

Any man who calls himself Leon is OK with me.

[The Drunken Actuary]

Just IMHO, I don't feel passing more than 1 exams at one time is all that unthinkable. As to why it seems Chinese perform better....maybe simply because they don't spend much time on Internet like this message boardNow that sounds like good advice.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

"Moreover, not all imaginations are suitable to be released on public message board, they'd better stay where they belong to. "
Written by a true mainland Chinese person. Please respond when you get clearance.

And when we cheat, we don't have our government forcing it on us.
And when we brag about our country, it doesn't have to be government-approved. And when we protest other countries' policies, it doesn't have to be government-sponsored.

Sorry, I don't think it's unthinkable. There are a number of multiple passers each session. Are you trying to imply something about my thinkability?
BTW, those were my outlandish ideas. Yeah, I put them out there, "run them up the flag, see if anyone salutes" attitude. The most plausible explanation is the law of large numbers, combined with the growing popularity of the exams in China and other Chinese-speaking countries. In other words, someone's bound to pass three exams. I knew someone who passed the equivalent of three of today's exams. It was 10 of the old exams. He was a F.O.N., so the tail of the normal distribution curve is non-empty.

[Bama Gambler]

And when we cheat, we don't have our government forcing it on us.
And when we brag about our country, it doesn't have to be government-approved. And when we protest other countries' policies, it doesn't have to be government-sponsored.


And when we say stupid sh*t, it doesn't have to be supported by the gov't (or any other American).

Dr T Non-Fan says stupid sh*t
Leon makes good points

:argue:

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Well, not ALL the time.
I stuck my neck out saying that at least 7 of the 8 would have Chinese names, and wha da ya know.

[Gandalf]

You stuck your neck out saying at least 7 would have Chinese names, and you were right.

You stuck your neck out saying at least 7 would have Chinese names, because some of them would be cheating, and I see no evidence you were right.

[Ling]

haha! yeah~~~ :P
BTW i never cheat in exams (except once, cheated to girlfriend that i was ill. But I actually didn't want to go shopping with her and i studied @ home :P )

Digweed: Don't worry. That's just a white lie...not a sin at all. Shopping is a sin. :)

Leon: Good post! About time someone spoke for the Chinese!

[Mr. Grim]

Just face it - most Americans are lazy because we now live in leisure and don't have to struggle quite so hard to make it. Even if we fail the exams, it is likely we will find another decent job with decent pay, our family will not live in poverty if we fail. I would expect that the likelihood of cheating Chinese is much less than cheating Americans. Why? Because they have alot more to lose if they get caught.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Gandalf say: "You stuck your neck out saying at least 7 would have Chinese names, because some of them would be cheating, and I see no evidence you were right."
You don't have to believe me. I think it would be better not to believe me. Laugh at me or feel sorry for me, but don't believe.

I carefully craft my posts so that:
1. I don't accuse anyone or any group of people of anything -- I said I imagined it. And people have quoted me on it. Last I checked, "Minority Report" was just a movie, although it's likely to have been copied and available now in DVD form in some countries. Can't say which ones for sure. Point is, it was an idea. It has some basis in rumor, which is: long time ago, it was reported that the exams were being written in groups, as was the cultural way of doing it in the culture it was discovered. The SOA put a stop to that practice. Now, maybe everything is done kosher, but that dark mark still lingers.
2. Some people will choose to read between non-existent lines and act accordingly.

Finally, I'd write an eloquent defense of the "Americans are lazy" comment, but, as you might guess, I'm too busy watching TV.

[Mr. Grim]

I carefully craft my posts so that:
1. I don't accuse anyone or any group of people of anything -- I said I imagined it. And people have quoted me on it. Last I checked, "Minority Report" was just a movie, although it's likely to have been copied and available now in DVD form in some countries. Can't say which ones for sure. Point is, it was an idea. It has some basis in rumor, which is: long time ago, it was reported that the exams were being written in groups, as was the cultural way of doing it in the culture it was discovered. The SOA put a stop to that practice. Now, maybe everything is done kosher, but that dark mark still lingers.




Because they don't have laws on copyrights that means they cheat on exams?

The second sounds like an urban legend? I suppose it could be true but I doubt it.

I heard somewhere that DTNF was a pompous ass - it must be true because I have not heard someone prove it wasn't true.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

1. Again with the reading between the lines. That's quite an imagination you have there. You know, sometimes, imaginations should not be written down. I read that somewhere.
2. Maybe an "Internet Legend." "Urban" seems inappropriate in these times.
3. Well, Grim, I have no evidence against it. I'd hate to suppress people's imaginations, though. Pompous: no. It just sounds that way. I don't think I'm excessively elevated or ornate (Def #1), nor would I consider myself exhibiting importance (def #2). Far from it, consider me unimportant, and see how much I care.
If it's the third definition, then OK, I am magnificent, if you say so. I wouldn't say so, but thank you anyway. You're too kind.

[Cho Da]

Your TV probably told you. :horse:

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Where would I be without it?

I absolutely agree with Leon. :)

Today is my first time to log in to this message board. :)

I passed the 100-160 series in the old system in China and then came to US to finish the course 5 and 6, just got my ASA. I can tell you guys that the exams are exactly the same everywhere. When I was in China, I took the exams in AIG’s actuarial center in GuangZhou(a city in south china). The proctors were actuaries from AIG insurance and professors from the actuarial center. We took the same exam, follow the same procedures. If you don't believe, ask someone working in AIG, ask them how their colleagues prepare exams in China.

When I first saw the first few posts of this thread, I felt sick. As Leon said “when other people perform better, try to respect, not suspect; try to work harder, not whine louder. ”

Passing actuarial examinations requires commitment and discipline. Whenever you do not commit to studying, you fail.

I studied the essay exams with my 3-year old son climbing on my back or playing around me. He learned all the shapes from binomial trees in option pricing and various statistical distribution forms in Statistics before he started pre-school! And he enjoyed picking the Jam cards randomly to his mum. When I memorized those essay question lists, I was surrounded by matchbox cars and little people toys. But my studying was fruitful. I passed every exam on the first try. I passed through rigorous study and efforts.

I was not surprised when someone passed 2 or 3 courses in one sitting. I have a friend who is a math Ph.D, passed all the 100-160 series in one sitting in 1996. He told me he spent 5 years studying these topics during the Ph.D program, it’s just an opportunity to let him show what he knows.

We are all professionals in the same actuarial field, please show respect to each other. Passing exams is not the only thing to become a successful actuary.

[Mr. Grim]

Good comments Chinese Girl. obviously, DTNF has some internal issues he needs to resolve. Either that or he has a disturbed sense of humor. Either way, don't let his stupid comments bother you.

Now, the Canadians that is another story.

Why what's wrong with canadians?? Let me here you biased and ignorant thoughts. This whole thread is based on ignorant ideas and accusations. However, I just hope that most people are joking. ( at least a bit) :P


Well, back to watching tv, like all the hard working americans. :P

Why what's wrong with canadians?? Let me here you biased and ignorant thoughts. This whole thread is based on ignorant ideas and accusations. However, I just hope that most people are joking. ( at least a bit) :P


Well, back to watching tv, like all the hard working americans. :P

[Mr. Grim]

Canadians do not know how to properly post to a discussion forum. I have factual evidence based on ASS Man's post (s).

[takin 2]

The 8 triple-passers are:
1,2,3 Wang, Fu G.
1,2,3 Wong, Chee C.
1,2,4 Liu, Xuewen
1,2,4 Zhou, Feng
1,3,4 Xu, Yuchen
1,3,4 Zhang, Lei
2,3,4 Gu, Xiao C.
2,3,4 Lu, Ke

Congratulations! :toast:

2,3,4 Gu, Xiao C.

I just met this guy, he is interviewing at my company today. If you want (as per earlier posts), I can ask if he somehow cheated (or sold his soul) the soa to pass all three. :D

[glenn]

I just met this guy, he is interviewing at my company today. If you want (as per earlier posts), I can ask if he somehow cheated (or sold his soul) the soa to pass all three. :D
How about you congratulate him for us? That's pretty cool, 3 exams in one sitting.

[Alya]

2,3,4 Gu, Xiao C.
I just met this guy, he is interviewing at my company today. If you want (as per earlier posts), I can ask if he somehow cheated (or sold his soul) the soa to pass all three. :D

Where did he take these exams? US? China?

[mikey]

I think the multiple passers are legit, but found this funny:

http://fyi.cnn.com/2002/fyi/teachers.ednews/08/05/diploma.fakery.ap/index.html

[takin 2]

2,3,4 Gu, Xiao C.
I just met this guy, he is interviewing at my company today. If you want (as per earlier posts), I can ask if he somehow cheated (or sold his soul) the soa to pass all three. :D

Where did he take these exams? US? China?

My bad, it was actually

2,3,4 Lu, Ke

He did his undergrad in China, MBA in act. sci and UCONN. I think he has another MBA also. He passed three exams in May while working 20 hours a week and getting A's in all six of his classes. WOW!!!!

He took the exams in Hartford I would assume if he was going to UCONN.

[Drzy]

http://fyi.cnn.com/2002/fyi/teachers.ednews/08/05/diploma.fakery.ap/index.html
Wow... here's a quote from the story:

One was Hu Changqing, a former deputy governor of southeastern Jiangxi province, who was executed for taking bribes. He had claimed to hold two degrees -- one in law -- from prestigious Peking University. He actually had bought phony diplomas near the campus.

[Tomoyo]

Hey, what happened to Chinese_Girl's posts?

[PocketAces]

When I was a grad student in the mid-90s, the mathematics department at the university I attended would not accept applicants from China into the doctoral program because it was common knowledge that the GREs were routinely compromised there.


I guess this is still a problem. ETS just suspended its administration of the electronic version of the GRE in four asian countries, including China, because of widespread cheating.

[retaker]

Granted, I have trouble passing any single exam, but I think these multiple exams passings are reasonable for people who are trained all their educational life on how to take standardized tests, and who already know the material!

First of all, Course 1 does not even count for these guys. I am sure they didn't even study at all for it, and that is commendable.

Second of all, if you already have an MBA, hell, two MBA's like this Gu guy, that’s a BIG advantage on course 2.

Third, didn’t you say this guy was in an actuarial science program? There goes your Course 3!

What impresses me is when someone has never seen the material before on a single Course like Course 3 and passes. People for whom all the material on Course 3 was new and yet they passed it first attempt in May 2000, the first time they offered it, really impress me.
There weren’t any old exams to practice with and nobody knew what the questions were going to be exactly like.

I think we tend to forget or suppress the fact that exam-taking skill has a lot to with passing these tests.

That brings me to another topic. Back in the old days when the students had 50,000 old exam problems to practice and the test were easier had it made.

[actuarycn]

I m a Chinese , and my En is bad.
But , as a Chinese , I think I should say something.

Please come to China and see our test procedure!!

Please don't argue here!!!

Just come to China!!!

Another thing I can tell u is that:
If the text book and the test was printed in CHINESE,
I can that , AT LEAST 10 CHINESE, CAN passed the SIX coures of the FSA exam!!!!
I m very sure of that!!!

[retaker]

Since your English is bad, just answer yes or no.

1)
Are you saying that the test procedure throughout a chinese students formal education is not a timed one?

2)
Are you saying that rote memorization is not used to drill concepts into the students head?

3)
Are you saying that if all the study material was in Chinese, then you know at least 10 people from China who could pass all the exams in one sitting?

4)
…….pass 6 of the exams in one sitting?

[bbe431]

What impresses me is when someone has never seen the material before on a single Course like Course 3 and passes. People for whom all the material on Course 3 was new and yet they passed it first attempt in May 2000, the first time they offered it, really impress me.
There weren’t any old exams to practice with and nobody knew what the questions were going to be exactly like.


I knew nothing about C3 materials before I started to prepare for this May exam in late Feb. I was so proud of myself when I found I got a 9 for C3---simply because that's the result of my hard work. I didn't cheat and I didn't sell my soul either --- besides my work, I had to cook for my hubby and my son as well as do most of the other housework. I didn't forget to go for lunch with my colleagues. Also I passed C1 and C2 in last Nov. with both of them being my first sitting. I got a high GRE along with many other folks who studied hard for it. And I'm from China.

Just saw this thread today. I feel offended when reading the D.... (sorry now I cannot see your handle)'s post. For people who succeed, I always respect them no matter what nationality he has. Badmouthing others wouldn't give you a higher exam score. Happiness, success and self-confidence will not come from "imagining" others' "possible" behaviors. Everything is possible, but you cannot say those projections are all true unless you have hard evidence. True, there are problems now regarding GRE issues in China, but you cannot say all Chinese exam takers are cheaters. Smart people are everywhere. As for taking actuarial exams, the only difference is how much effort you put in. Busy, yes, we are all busy. But if you are an exam taker and you want to pass, you got to make some input to pass no matter how busy you are. Studying/working hard for what you want to achieve is never a shame. Born an American shouldn't be something one should feel superior to others. What makes you superior is what you achieve. I feel proud of my fellow Chinese who are successful in their field no matter where they are. For some of them, including me, coming to US, is just our personal choice. We came, because we can via our real effort. We can survive and we can survive here well just as every hard working person can in every corner in this planet. I feel especially happy for those who passed 3 exams at the same time since I know this CANNOT come from cheating and I can imagine how many hours they put in.

If you want to succeed, put in time and commitment. It is as simple as that. To be honest, you have my greatest sympathy.

[Dr T Non-Fan]

bbe431 say:
Happiness, success and self-confidence will not come from "imagining" others' "possible" behaviors.

bbe431 also say:
I feel especially happy for those who passed 3 exams at the same time since I know this CANNOT come from cheating and I can imagine how many hours they put in.

I've already decided not to comment any further.

[Jen]

No need to get blood pressure so high! Calm down, everyone, and be grown ups. Everyone is different, everyone got their own life. I am happy each time I passed an exam. I am happy for those who passed 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 exams at one sitting. But, what's the big deal though, after all? Exam is part of our career, career is just a part, even a small part, of our life. Take a deep breath, look outside your window if you can find one. Isn't the world still very pretty? Chill-out! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

[actuarycn]

Since your English is bad, just answer yes or no.

THX


1)
Are you saying that the test procedure throughout a chinese students formal education is not a timed one?


SORRY, I can't understand what u said:(


2)
Are you saying that rote memorization is not used to drill concepts into the students head?


For learning mathematics, rot mem is not used, comprehension is the most important thing!!!
But for English (as u know En is not the mother tongue for Chinese),Chinese need it and of couse comprehension is important as well!


3)
Are you saying that if all the study material was in Chinese, then you know at least 10 people from China who could pass all the exams in one sitting?


YES, all the 6 of ASA EXAMS!


4)
…….pass 6 of the exams in one sitting?

YES, all the 6 of ASA EXAMS!

[retaker]

Jen,
I have no life, so I am allowed to continue. :wink:

bb421,

Are you sure you hadn't seen any of the material on the exam prior to starting studying?

Aren't you leaving out that you have a masters or phd in statistics?

Started in Feb????