Boston Red Sox - 2005 Season

[yankeetripper]

and the lack of quality defense and pitching in the AL.

Defense in the AL is as good as defense in the NL. Find me some reasonable data to show that defense is better in the NL before you make baseless claims.

NL ERA's are always lower because they basicaly get a free pass for 11% of the game.

If you want a true comparison, look at how pitcher do switching leages. AL pitchers who go to the NL tend to lower their ERA substantially while most NL pitcher (not based in Coors Field) tend to see their ERAs rise.

[GefilteFish144]

and the lack of quality defense and pitching in the AL.

AL has quality pitchers -- they just do better in the NL because they only have to pitch to 8 batters. Just ask Clemens, Pettitte and Martinez, whose ERA's are much better than when they were with the Yankees/Sox. On the other side of the coin Randy Johnson has given up far more homers with the Yankees than he did with Arizona.

[MountainHawk]

That's because of the fact that AL teams have a better hitting lineup, on average. We've discussed that already. Switching leagues is not a true comparsion. The only true comparsion would exist if the AL came back to playing baseball, instead of the arcade version they play right now.

[GefilteFish144]

That's because of the fact that AL teams have a better hitting lineup, on average. We've discussed that already. Switching leagues is not a true comparsion. The only true comparsion would exist if the AL came back to playing baseball, instead of the arcade version they play right now.

If the AL lost the DH, the NL would have an immediate advantage since the teams are better equipped for it, but in the long run the teams would adapt. If the rules allow you to put 9 hitters in the lineup, you try to take full advantage of it. If you end up having to kill rallies with a .100 hitter once every 9 batters, then it's better to build your team up with pitching and defense than to stack up your lineup with hitters who will just end up being stranded.

[MountainHawk]

Fine ... which goes back to my original point:

(1) There are no meaningful statistics to compare the two league with, because the two leagues play entirely different games.

(2) The Yankees or Red Sox, as currently constructed, would be buried in the NL East.

[yankeetripper]

That's because of the fact that AL teams have a better hitting lineup, on average. We've discussed that already. Switching leagues is not a true comparsion. The only true comparsion would exist if the AL came back to playing baseball, instead of the arcade version they play right now.

Quit crying an just admit you are wrong. The AL has more talent pure and simple.

BTW even with the 'arcade ball' you so despise, 4 of the top 6 and 5 of the top 8 staff ERA's in MLB are in the AL. If you adjust runs scored to account for the DH, even a blind man could see the AL has better pitching right now.

As for defense, just look at the fielding pecentages, and range factors of qualified players, they are pretty evenly dispersed between NL and AL so I'd say on average, defense is about the same in both leagues.

[yankeetripper]

Fine ... which goes back to my original point:

(1) There are no meaningful statistics to compare the two league with, because the two leagues play entirely different games.

(2) The Yankees or Red Sox, as currently constructed, would be buried in the NL East.

Not true even as constructed, either team would dominate in the NL East. Would Boston really lose that much if Kevin Millar wasn't playing 1st and they let Papi play there? I mean Millar isn't exactly Kieth Hernadez with the glove.

And Yanks have enough offense to compensate, this year DH hasn't really help them that much as Giambi is back to an every day 1st baseman, other then lately when the can still get Sheffield's bat in the lineup while resting his injured thigh DH hasn't been exactly a strong point for Yanks.

The game is the same, to prented they are different is ignorance. It's not like comparing Hockey to Basketball.

[MountainHawk]

Quit crying an just admit you are wrong. The AL has more talent pure and simple.

BTW even with the 'arcade ball' you so despise, 4 of the top 6 and 5 of the top 8 staff ERA's in MLB are in the AL. If you adjust runs scored to account for the DH, even a blind man could see the AL has better pitching right now.

As for defense, just look at the fielding pecentages, and range factors of qualified players, they are pretty evenly dispersed between NL and AL so I'd say on average, defense is about the same in both leagues.


I'm not wrong. It's pretty pathetic that two teams could spend something close to two-fifths of a billion dollars on salary, and they still aren't anything close to dominant. Replace the Nats and Mets with the Yankees and Red Sox, and the NL East standings are going to look much different than it looks like right now.

[MountainHawk]

Not true even as constructed, either team would dominate in the NL East. Would Boston really lose that much if Kevin Millar wasn't playing 1st and they let Papi play there? I mean Millar isn't exactly Kieth Hernadez with the glove.

And Yanks have enough offense to compensate, this year DH hasn't really help them that much as Giambi is back to an every day 1st baseman, other then lately when the can still get Sheffield's bat in the lineup while resting his injured thigh DH hasn't been exactly a strong point for Yanks.

They game is the same, to prented they are different is ignorance. It's not like comparing Hockey to Basketball.



LOL ... please. The Yankees are going to dominate the pitching staffs of the NL East? I'd probably take 5 or 6 starting pitchers from the NL East before I'd touch a single one of the Yankees starters.

[Wannabe Actuary]

Nope. Most* of the people that can only hit/steroid users end up in the AL, so they score more runs than the NL so people think the AL is better.
*Barry Bonds is the NL exception at this point in his career.

[GefilteFish144]

Fine ... which goes back to my original point:

(1) There are no meaningful statistics to compare the two league with, because the two leagues play entirely different games.

(2) The Yankees or Red Sox, as currently constructed, would be buried in the NL East.

So if your statement #1 is true, then you have nothing to back statement #2 with because the "two leagues play entirely different games". Yankees and the Red Sox were constructed to beat the daylights out of each other, not to compete against the NL East.

[yankeetripper]

I'm not wrong. It's pretty pathetic that two teams could spend something close to two-fifths of a billion dollars on salary, and they still aren't anything close to dominant. Replace the Nats and Mets with the Yankees and Red Sox, and the NL East standings are going to look much different than it looks like right now.

I don't know one team lost their Cy Young candiate ace for most of the season and their closer after May and are still going to win 90+ games.

The other lost 60% of its projected rotation to injury and is still going to win 90+ games.

You're right replace the Nats & Mets in the NL East with Bos & NYY and ATL finishes 3rd, Philly has no shot at the WC a FLA is a last place team; but if you're a glutton for punishment who am I to argue.

[MountainHawk]

You're right. I was wrong. ATL, PHI, and FLA would probably have a few more wins against the pathetic Yankees rotation that they got against WSH and NYM. My bad.

[MountainHawk]

I don't know one team lost their Cy Young candiate ace for most of the season and their closer after May and are still going to win 90+ games.

The other lost 60% of its projected rotation to injury and is still going to win 90+ games.

You're right replace the Nats & Mets in the NL East with Bos & NYY and ATL finishes 3rd, Philly has no shot at the WC a FLA is a last place team; but if you're a glutton for punishment who am I to argue.

That's because pitching and defense don't matter in the AL, so you can afford to take risks by signing overpriced ancient once-wases in the hopes you eke another good year out of them.

[MountainHawk]

So if your statement #1 is true, then you have nothing to back statement #2 with because the "two leagues play entirely different games". Yankees and the Red Sox were constructed to beat the daylights out of each other, not to compete against the NL East.


My backing of statement two is what you said above. AL teams aren't built to compete in the NL. You you really think the Red Sox would have been competitive this year if on April 1st, Selig said ... we are putting the Nationals in the AL and Boston in the NL for a season.

There's no way. The NL East is a pitching dominant division. Even the last place Mets have a very good starting rotation ... their bullpen is just weak. The Sox wouldn't lose 100 either, of course, but they aren't winning 90+ games in a division with the kind of pitching that the NL East has.

[yankeetripper]

LOL ... please. The Yankees are going to dominate the pitching staffs of the NL East? I'd probably take 5 or 6 starting pitchers from the NL East before I'd touch a single one of the Yankees starters.

Gee 5 teams to choose from and you can only come up w/ 5 or 6? With a whole divison to choose for I'd hope you could find a few but RJ even with his sub par year I could only find 3 I'd take over him this year and 2 were in the AL last year.

Tim Hudson, Dontrell Willis, Pedro Martinez. Who else. Don't tell me someone who plays in the grand canyon that is RFK and Philly has 5 identical twins all servicable but none really good (other than maybe Lieber in September) Maybe AJ Burnett, I think Becket has crumbled down the strech at least one of them has been bombed lately.

[MountainHawk]

Beckett, Myers, Smoltz, Willis, Hudson, Martinez .... at a minimum. There may be more, but I actually have to run for a meeting.

[GefilteFish144]

My backing of statement two is what you said above. AL teams aren't built to compete in the NL. You you really think the Red Sox would have been competitive this year if on April 1st, Selig said ... we are putting the Nationals in the AL and Boston in the NL for a season.

There's no way. The NL East is a pitching dominant division. Even the last place Mets have a very good starting rotation ... their bullpen is just weak. The Sox wouldn't lose 100 either, of course, but they aren't winning 90+ games in a division with the kind of pitching that the NL East has.

Your argument was certainly true for the 2003 WS, but didn't hold water for 2002 or 2004. 2001 was a tough call, since both Yankees and Arizona were pitching/defense teams.

[yankeetripper]

The Sox wouldn't lose 100 either, of course, but they aren't winning 90+ games in a division with the kind of pitching that the NL East has.

Yeah I'm sure a team that scored 100 more runs than any team in the NL and 137 more than any in the NL east would have really struggled w/o Kevin Millar in the line up. They would have won the NL east going away. And this is from a Yankee fan! I f#*@ing hate Boston but it doesn't mean they aren't good.

[lawfi5h]

wow hawk...you've managed to bring Sox and Yankees fans together for a common cause.


I sense a disruption in the force.

[GefilteFish144]

wow hawk...you've managed to bring Sox and Yankees fans together for a common cause.


I sense a disruption in the force.

:lolup: Good one. It really is useless to argue about AL vs. NL. Personally I'm divided about the issue. On the one hand, the NL double-switch strategies adds a little more excitement to the late innings, but on the flip side, it's rather pathetic to see pitchers coming up with the bases loaded and flailing away at 90-mph fastballs. If there were more pitchers like Dontrele Willis (batted 7th against the Mets last night and has a .250 BA) it would be more fun to watch, but sadly most of them look like little leaguers at the plate. Besides, the DH has opened the door to guys like Edgar Martinez who was actually a decent fielder but didn't have the body to withstand the wear and tear of standing in the field for 9 innings.

[PK]

Assuming some sort of distribution of talent, shouldn't there be people who:

Can hit but not necessarily field (Ortiz say) who would end up a star in the AL.
Can pitch but not necessarily hit (pick one) who would end up a star in either league, but not be a liabiltiy in the AL if they were really bad at the plate.
Can pitch and hit reasonably (Dontrele Willis say) that would be a star in the NL.

If the talent pickers in each league had any skill (debatable, I know) shouldn't you expect the best hitters who can't field and the best pitchers who can't hit to end up in the AL. Wouldn't it follow that the AL would be the best overall as all the rest were spread evenly between the two leagues? Throw in the fact that the NYY spend $205 million and the Sox spend $121 million (that's 95% and 16% higher than the third highest and 282% and 166% higher than average) and it's hard to imagine how the NL is so much better at the game, even if it's a "completely different game".

[GefilteFish144]

There really is no solid evidence that the NL is really all that much better at pitching and defense than the AL. If you look at ERA, St. Louis leads the pack at 3.40, with Houston not too far behind at 3.52. Who's #3 in the majors? Cleveland at 3.64. If you make the appropriate adjustments for the DH, it would be fair to say that Cleveland's pitching is up there with St. Louis. Trying to make a blanket statement that all AL teams have pitching and defense as bad as the Red Sox is a weak argument.

[DW Simpson]

Just saw this: www.firefrancona.com

[Wannabe Actuary]

b/c he can control Foulke's knee not getting better and Schilling not getting his ankle strength back....:roll:

I also found this....

http://firejoetorre.com/

b/c it's sooo hard to buy a domain and start a site.

[Triangle Man]

Pinella will be available next year...

[DW Simpson]

http://firejoetorre.com/

I like that one.

[GefilteFish144]

This is NOT a site to BASH Joe, it is a meeting place for the fans!It was created for the purpose for Yankee Fans to interact!We are HUGE Fans of Joe! We wanted to put this site up before some idiots use it for a bashing site!

I wonder if these people also bought canjoetorre, axjoetorre, joetorreshouldrotinhell, and other websites to prevent the "idiots" from expressing their opinion. Idiots don't need websites -- they just need a phone and a call-in radio talk show (e.g., Mike & the Mad Dog).

[r. mutt]

b/c he can control Foulke's knee not getting better and Schilling not getting his ankle strength back....:roll:


Puh-leeze. Nobody made Francoma play Millar and Renteria all year, and nobody made him put in the "closer" who has let 17 out of 32 inherited runners score this year. :roll: :roll:

[GefilteFish144]

Puh-leeze. Nobody made Francoma play Millar and Renteria all year, and nobody made him put in the "closer" who has let 17 out of 32 inherited runners score this year. :roll: :roll:

Millar and Renteria were in there for their bats, which have done a good job this year. And who do you think would make a better closer than Timlin? Sure, Francona's an average manager at best, but given the hand he's dealt he can't do much better.

[Pseudolus]

Millar and Renteria were in there for their bats, which have done a good job this year.Renteria? For his bat?

[r. mutt]

Face it Sox fans, your $200M payroll bought you the exact same thing the Phillies $90M payroll did ... a team either barely good enough to scrape into the postseason, or just bad enough not to.

Holy sh#t, did the Sox just spend another $70M and I missed it?? What did they get?

[r. mutt]

Renteria? For his bat?

I can't believe you let Millar go by w/out comment.

[Pseudolus]

I can't believe you let Millar go by w/out comment.I decided to just pick the one battle. I'm not as young as I used to be.

[r. mutt]

I decided to just pick the one battle. I'm not as young as I used to be.

Good point. Kev has 9 HRs this year, 2 more than Edgar, and is batting .003 better. And he's a better fielder.

[r. mutt]

Millar and Renteria were in there for their bats, which have done a good job this year. And who do you think would make a better closer than Timlin? Sure, Francona's an average manager at best, but given the hand he's dealt he can't do much better.

I'll assume you don't actually watch all the Sox games and don't know what you're talking about (as opposed to you trolling). As I just wrote in my quote, Timlin has coughed up runs to >50% of inherited runners, whereas he does really well when he starts an inning. So with two outs in the 8th, a RISP and the knuckleballer leaving the mound, why not drop in the experienced kid with the 94 mph fastball or the inexperienced one with the 97 mph fastball to get one out? Just a crazy thought.

[yankeetripper]

Holy sh#t, did the Sox just spend another $70M and I missed it?? What did they get?

Alan Embree & Mark Bellhorn.

[yankeetripper]

I can't believe you let Millar go by w/out comment.

I don't watch the sox much but even I know Millar had like all of 4 HR at the all-star break. Now that is some quality production from a corner infeilder. And just the kind of #s that land you that huge off season deal.

Renteria's been better in the 2nd half but I think Sox fans were calling him rent-a-wreck early in the season.

Francona's made some mistakes but show me a manager who hasn't, face it he hasn't had much pen to work w/ all season. After that 1st series against the Red Sox Torre's had Mo all year and since the end of May Gordon's been as good as any set up guy in the league.

[r. mutt]

Alan Embree & Mark Bellhorn.

Nah, those guys were on the $128M the Red Sox started the year with. Not sure what the Yankees paid for them.

[yankeetripper]

Nah, those guys were on the $128M the Red Sox started the year with. Not sure what the Yankees paid for them.

I think its just meal money, but even that may be too much.

[r. mutt]

I don't watch the sox much but even I know Millar had like all of 4 HR at the all-star break. Now that is some quality production from a corner infeilder. And just the kind of #s that land you that huge off season deal.


In Japan!


Renteria's been better in the 2nd half but I think Sox fans were calling him rent-a-wreck early in the season.

.169 in September. Go pennant race!


Francona's made some mistakes but show me a manager who hasn't, face it he hasn't had much pen to work w/ all season. After that 1st series against the Red Sox Torre's had Mo all year and since the end of May Gordon's been as good as any set up guy in the league.
Agreed. Last year Francona stuck with people in slumps and they got better. This year he tried it again, but...

[yankeetripper]

Wow didn't realize Rentaria had fallen so far. I actualy though he was an upgrade at short when the Sox picked him up. Guess not all free agent signings work out.

Then it's not like the Yankees haven't bought a few dogs over the years...

[r. mutt]

Wow didn't realize Rentaria had fallen so far. I actualy though he was an upgrade at short when the Sox picked him up. Guess not all free agent signings work out.

Then it's not like the Yankees haven't bought a few dogs over the years...

He's hitting around .270 for the season so it's not like he's terrible, but he's not a fantastic fielder either. I'd rather have an awesome fielder hitting .250....

[yankeetripper]

He's hitting around .270 for the season so it's not like he's terrible, but he's not a fantastic fielder either. I'd rather have an awesome fielder hitting .250....

He used to get touted as a gold glove candiate with both Fla/Stl. Part of the reason I thought he was a good pick up for you guys was his defense. But best laid plans...

Also I think he's had some .300 seasons or close to. I figured he wouldn't be stealing a lot of bases in Bos based on team philosophy but he had decent wheels in NL.

[r. mutt]

He used to get touted as a gold glove candiate with both Fla/Stl. Part of the reason I thought he was a good pick up for you guys was his defense. But best laid plans...


Everyone thought we were getting an Orlando Cabrera who could hit, but it hasn't worked out that way so far. Word around the league (according to various announcers) is that everyone thinks he's playing hurt.

Now back to business...let's see if Arroyo can keep a 1-run lead. Yayyyyyyy Trot! (with a tip o' the lid to Miguel Tejada!)

[r. mutt]

MANNY!!!!

That was funny...when the catcher flashed the signal I said to my wife, "holy sh#t, they're pitching him inside on 3 and 2". She thought I was really smart until Rem-dog said "what a stupid pitch, everyone knows Manny looks for inside fastballs."

Well, everyone but the Orioles. All is forgiven, Manny, until you fail to run out that next grounder.

[Wannabe Actuary]

Sorry for the late recap of Friday's game, I've been busy.

Renteria singled in the first and moved to second on a wild pitch. Two batters later Manny singled to drive him in.

Baltimore came right back in the bottom half with 3 singles and a stolen base that put two runs on the board. It looked like Arroyo was going to get beaten up early. Back to back doubles in the bottom of the third added another run, but Arroyo rebounded well, getting the next 3 batters out.

In the top of the 5th with 2 on and 2 out, Manny grounded to Tenjada, and it looked like the inning was over, but Tejada's throw was off the mark and a run scored to bring it within a run. Nixon then doubled in Renteria and Manny to take the lead 4-3.

In the top of the 7th with Renteria on, Manny homered for the 40th time this year to give Boston a 6-3 lead. Arroyo stayed in for 7+ innings leaving with a runner on first that he had walked. Myers got the next out and Papelbon finished the inning, neither allowing a hit or walk. Timlin pitched the 9th and only allowed a 2 out single. He finished off the inning facing just 4 batters to get the save.

NYY, Cleveland and CWS all won, so there was no change in the standings.

POG goes to Manny who went 2-5 with a HR and 3 RBI.

Saturday's update will be in a few hours when the game is done.

[Wannabe Actuary]

The Sox jumped to a quick 2 run lead in the first behind a sac fly by Manny and a wild pitch.

Clement was solid, but still had trouble locating today. He went 6 innings and allowed 4 hits and 6 walks while striking out 4. He didn't allow a run, but with 116 pitches, he was done after 6. Hansen came in and struck out the first batter. Castro singled and Mora hit a 2 run HR to tie the game. Hansen then got Tejada to ground out, but a single and double by the next to batters had two men in scoring position and Francona pulled the rookie and replaced him with Myers. Myers got the next batter to pop out to end the threat in the 7th.

At this point the out of town scoreboard showed that the Yanks had lost. The Sox knew this was their chance to catch them atop the AL East.

Boston was able to get men on first and secon in the 8th with two out, but were unable to score.

Papelbon came in to pitch the 8th and it got exciting. Gomez singled to lead off the inning and Rogers came in to pinch run for him. Newhan tried to bunt down the third-base line but popped it up for an out. Papelbon then got Matos to strike out and Rogers tried took off for second by el capitan threw him out to end the inning.

In the 9th Mueller popped out to start the inning but back to back singles followed by a walk loaded the bases for Renteria. While Renteria has been in a slump as of late, he hit a broken bat single that scored 2 runs to take the lead 4-2. Ortiz and Manny both were unable to add to the total and the inning was over.

Timlin came in for the save opportunity and walked the first batter. A pop out and a ground out had Baltimore down to there last out. The runner was now on second and Gibbons doubled to score Castro. However, Lopez flied out to right to end the game.

Sox are now tied with the Yanks atop the AL East!

Cleveland and Chicago both won, so there are no changes to those standings or the placement of the AL East second place team in the WC race.

POG goes to Renteria for getting the clutch hit when it matters. He only went 1-4 with 2 RBI, a walk and 1 run scored, but that one hit made all the difference. Props to Clement for a solid 6 innings with no runs allowed.

[Pseudolus]

POG goes to Renteria for getting the clutch hit when it matters. He only went 1-4 with 2 RBI, a walk and 1 run scored, but that one hit made all the difference. Props to Clement for a solid 6 innings with no runs allowed.Boo. A lucky broken-bat bloop over six shutout innings?

[Triangle Man]

Boo. A lucky broken-bat bloop over six shutout innings?Sometimes six shutout innings does not comprise a good performance. My vote for POG goes to Papelbon.

[Pseudolus]

Sometimes six shutout innings does not comprise a good performance. My vote for POG goes to Papelbon.I'll take a 6-inning headstart anyday.

[r. mutt]

Sorry, Renteria as PoG is a joke. Bring back Red Sox Fan!

[Pseudolus]

The current AL playoff odds from Prospectus:http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/ps_odds.php
(mathematically eliminated teams elided)

Average wins by position in AL East: 95.3 93.4 79.9 73.9 66.8
AL East W L Pct3 Avg W Avg L Champions Wild Card Playoffs
Red Sox 90 64 .560 94.5 67.5 55.45350 3.25947 58.71297
Yankees 90 64 .575 94.2 67.8 44.54650 3.58699 48.13350

Average wins by position in AL Central: 97.5 95.7 82.9 71.8 54.7
AL Central W L Pct3 Avg W Avg L Champions Wild Card Playoffs
White Sox 93 61 .527 96.7 65.3 51.70735 44.94191 96.64925
Indians 92 63 .598 96.6 65.4 48.29265 48.21109 96.50374

Average wins by position in AL west: 92.9 89.4 79.7 70.2
AL West W L Pct3 Avg W Avg L Champions Wild Card Playoffs
Angels 89 65 .542 92.8 69.2 90.36105 .00024 90.36129
Athletics 85 69 .565 89.5 72.5 9.63895 .00029 9.63925
Going to be a heckuva interesting week. Looks like it's going to be all-or-nothing in the AL East.

[yankeetripper]

Pitching matchup
TOR: RHP David Bush
• 5-10, 4.45 ERA in 2005
• 0-2, 11.70 ERA vs. BOS in 2005

BOS: RHP Curt Schilling
• 7-8, 5.89 ERA in 2005
• 1-0, 9.00 ERA vs. TOR in 2005

Which Curt Schilling shows up tonight? Based on the #s above this game could rival monday night football for points/runs. Then I thought the Clement/Beddard match up on Saturday was going to a football like final score so who knows.

Boston is better than Toroto but at least Jay's haven't quit like the O's.

[yankeetripper]

The current AL playoff odds from Prospectus:http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/ps_odds.php
(mathematically eliminated teams elided)

Average wins by position in AL East: 95.3 93.4 79.9 73.9 66.8
AL East W L Pct3 Avg W Avg L Champions Wild Card Playoffs
Red Sox 90 64 .560 94.5 67.5 55.45350 3.25947 58.71297
Yankees 90 64 .575 94.2 67.8 44.54650 3.58699 48.13350

Going to be a heckuva interesting week. Looks like it's going to be all-or-nothing in the AL East.

I like how both NYY & BOS win, Cleveland loss, and Red Sox chances go up to 66% and Yanks increase to 49%? Guess their simulation doen't take into account how bad O's are lately.

[MountainHawk]

I like how both NYY & BOS win, Cleveland loss, and Red Sox chances go up to 66% and Yanks increase to 49%? Guess their simulation doen't take into account how bad O's are lately.

I suspect they use something like the Win%A / (Win%A+Win%B) = P winning formula, adjusted for home field.

[GefilteFish144]

I like how both NYY & BOS win, Cleveland loss, and Red Sox chances go up to 66% and Yanks increase to 49%? Guess their simulation doen't take into account how bad O's are lately.

Red Sox play all their remaining games at Fenway, where they have been dominanat this year. They have had their problems against the Blue Jays, but played them well in Toronto earlier this month. Yankees play all their remaining games on the road, where they have been barely over .500. It's likely that whichever team wins 2 out of 3 in Fenway will win the division, so on paper the home field advantage dominates.

In reality, though, you can throw those stats out the window. It will all come down to whether the late inning heroics of Manny and Papi will be enough to overcome the team's mediocre pitching. Last year it was barely enough, and that was with a solid bullpen. As for this year, we'll see....

[Triangle Man]

I suspect they use something like the Win%A / (Win%A+Win%B) = P winning formula, adjusted for home field.Something like that, but they use an adjusted winning percentage, based on the team's underlying stats and strength of schedule. I don't think it corrects for how teams are playing lately.

[lawfi5h]

Something like that, but they use an adjusted winning percentage, based on the team's underlying stats and strength of schedule. I don't think it corrects for how teams are playing lately.

What about rotation? I gotta think it takes that into account.

[Triangle Man]

What about rotation? I gotta think it takes that into account.It's been a while since I read the article, but I don't think it does.

[MountainHawk]

Expected winning percentages (EWP) for each team starts with their W3 and L3
from the Adjusted Standings. A regression is applied to derive the EWP for the
rest of the season, which is going to be between the current winning
percentage and .500. To allow for uncertainty in the EWP, a normal
distribution centered on the EWP is randomly sampled, and that value is used
for the remainder of the season in that iteration. To simulate the normal 4%
home-field advantage, the home team gets a .020 point bonus, while the
visitors take a 0.020 penalty. The likelihood of winning each game is
determined by the log5 method.


...

[MountainHawk]

W3 and L3:



W, L : Actual team wins and losses.

RS, RA: Actual team runs scored and runs allowed.

W1, L1 ("First-order wins"): Pythagenport expected wins and losses, based on
RS and RA.

EQR, EQRA: Equivalent runs scored and equivalent runs allowed (equivalent
runs, generated from the opponent's batting line)

W2, L2 ("Second-order wins"): Pythagenport wins and losses, based on EQR and
EQRA.

AEQR, AEQRA: EQR and EQRA, adjusted for strength of schedule: the
quality of their opponent's pitching and hitting. If AEQR is higher than EQR,
the team has faced better than average pitching; if AEQRA is higher than EQRA, the team has faced worse than average hitting.

W3, L3 ("Third-order wins"): Pythagenport wins and losses, based on AEQR and
AEQRA.




and log5 method:



In the 1981 Bill James Baseball Abstract, Bill introduced the log5 method to answer the question, "how often should team A be expected to beat team B?" It took him several pages to describe and justify the method, so we won't take the space to do all of that again here. Instead, we'll just give the formula:

A - A * B
WPct = -----------------
A + B - 2 * A * B

[rawl316]

this is my first peak into this thread. jesus christ we have 50 mini Rob Neyer's!

[Triangle Man]

this is my first peak into this thread. jesus christ we have 50 mini Rob Neyer's!The Red Sox tend to attract the most intelligent, wise, and good looking fans. If you're looking for Joe Morgan-level analysis, you can probably find some in the Yankees thread.

[yankeetripper]

The Red Sox tend to attract the most intelligent, wise, and good looking fans. If you're looking for Joe Morgan-level analysis, you can probably find some in the Yankees thread.

I hope he didn't have to read all 93 pages of this thread, because 91 of them are just in game postings.

[Jables]

Hay-o! Back from Vegas and looks like a helluva week glued to the TV screen coming up! :tup:

[Pseudolus]

Hay-o! Back from Vegas and looks like a helluva week glued to the TV screen coming up! :tup:Do you have the authority to rescind an undeserved POG? (;))

[DW Simpson]

The Red Sox tend to attract the most intelligent, wise, and good looking fans.

Yah.

[Pseudolus]

The kid has lately become fascinated by the baby in the mirror. So fascinated, in fact, that it's become necessary to name said baby. I have named this baby Doug. Doug Mirrorbaby.

That is all.

[PK]

The Red Sox tend to attract the most intelligent, wise, and good looking fans. If you're looking for Joe Morgan-level analysis, you can probably find some in the Yankees thread.
Not srue how this can be true, as it seems as if more than half the posting in the Yankee's thread are by the Red Sox fans. ;)

[ThaLetters]

anyone willing to post up scores and some details every now and then for those of us without internet access at work? :)

[Pseudolus]

Bottom first, Sox on 2nd and 3rd, no outs.

I think I'll just leave you there. :-D

[MountainHawk]

GITP.

[Pseudolus]

GITP.
Actually it was a quad. They tagged Francona, too.

[yankeetripper]

sox 2 - good guys 0 end of 1.

[Big98]

good guys 2 - jays 0 end of 1.

IFYQ
RBI groundout from Ortiz and RBI single from Manny.

[yankeetripper]

Wakefield with no-hitter through 3. Just trying to jinx it.

[Ray Finkle]

5-pitch 4th inning for Wakefield.

Still 2-0

[PK]

So how exactly does the picture in MLB's GameDay work? They currently show pitch #2 as a called strike, but the graphic shows it clearly low. Is the graphic mechanically generated by the machine, or is someone watching the game and playing with software somewhere?

[Big98]

Jays score on a passed ball - 2-1 Sox in top of 5th, two outs.

[Triangle Man]

Blue Jays get a run back on a single, E7, flyout and passed ball.

[JustASix]

Blue Jays get a run back on a single, E7, flyout and passed ball.That's just Manny being Manny.

[Triangle Man]

That's just Wakefield being Wakefield.Given that the key play in that sequence was the passed ball, IFYQ.

[yankeetripper]

Sox get run back on back-to-back doubles by Rent-a-wreck & Papi.

3-1 end of 5.

[Big98]

Sox get one back on back-to-back doubles by Renteria and Papi. 3-1 after five.

[Pseudolus]

Given that the key play in that sequence was the passed ball, IFYQ.Belly should've handled it.

[Big98]

Still 3-1 after six; Wake at 91 pitches.

[Big98]

Papelbon in to start the 8th. Still up 3-1.
Wake 7 IP, 3 H, 1 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 6 K, 108 NP

[yankeetripper]

1st & 3rd, 1 out Jays.

[GefilteFish144]

Mt. Vernon Wells at the plate with the on-deck batter Shea "Traded by the Sox for Byung-Hyun Kim" Hillenbrand.

[Ray Finkle]

:clap: Papelbon gets out of the jam! Still 3-1 bottom of 8.

[GefilteFish144]

Oh, hamburgers! Wells & Hillenbrand hurt the Yankees whether they play them or not.

[Big98]

Papelbon worked out of a first-and-third jam by getting VWells to pop up and Hillenbrand to strike out. Bottom of 8th, still 3-1 good guys.

[Ray Finkle]

Still 3-1, Timlin on to pitch the 9th . . .

[Ray Finkle]

Ground Out
Strike Out

2 down . . .

[Ray Finkle]

Koskie singles

[Ray Finkle]

Koskie to second on fielder's indifference (giving the full update)

[GefilteFish144]

Gabe Gross can tie it up with his 2nd HR of the season....

[Big98]

WIN!

[Ray Finkle]

Gross grounds out. Sox win 3-1!!

:clap:

[Hagbard Celine]

I can't believe I forgot to "watch" this.

:(

[GefilteFish144]

3-way tie with Yanks and Cleveland -- let the fun begin!

[PK]

Repeated, because no one will see it among all the play-by-play:So how exactly does the picture in MLB's GameDay work? They currently show pitch #2 as a called strike, but the graphic shows it clearly low. Is the graphic mechanically generated by the machine, or is someone watching the game and playing with software somewhere?Anybody know how that graphic works?

[Big98]

Repeated, because no one will see it among all the play-by-play:Anybody know how that graphic works?

I've heard it's a manual entry from someone watching the game...don't have a definitive source for that tho.

[r. mutt]

<sigh> I was going to post that Schilling always seems to give up a run when his team gives him a lead. I guess I underestimated slightly.

[GefilteFish144]

Schilling vs. Moose -- get your bullpens ready.... :rolleyes:

[r. mutt]

<sigh> I was going to post that Schilling always seems to give up a run when his team gives him a lead. I guess I underestimated slightly.

And then he went and did it again. Dude's dependable, at least.

[r. mutt]

What an unbelievable hairball they coughed up. I guess everyone did tonight.

[Jables]

Ouch, everything stays even though... :tfh:

[lawfi5h]

Ouch, everything stays even though... :tfh:

Just the way MLB wants it. ;)

[GefilteFish144]

So how exactly does the picture in MLB's GameDay work? They currently show pitch #2 as a called strike, but the graphic shows it clearly low. Is the graphic mechanically generated by the machine, or is someone watching the game and playing with software somewhere?

I have a friend who works for MLB.com. This is his response:

the graphic is generated totally by the computer, not by anything that
happens at the ballpark. the strike call is generated totally by the
umpire.

has there been any actuarial analysis of the frequency of ocurrence of
this phenomenon, or of the projected risk of a blown call?

[great3981]

No Time For Emergencies During Baseball Pennant Race


BOSTON, Sept. 26-Boston Red Sox fans, who waited 86 years for a World Series win, apparently figured they could wait a few more hours to go to the emergency room when their team began its historic rally against their archenemy New York Yankees in October 2004.


That's the conclusion of researchers at Children's Hospital and Harvard Medical School here, who found that ER visits citywide rose and fell in direct proportion to fortunes of the Red Sox. For example, ER traffic was higher than expected when the team appeared to be on the brink of elimination, and dropped off sharply as the self-proclaimed team of "Idiots" began to claw their way back during the 2004 American League Championship Series (ALCS) and World Series.


The authors described how they determined the association between rising pennant fever and declining hospital visits in a letter published in the October Annals of Internal Medicine.


"The public health finding here is people use discretion in deciding when to show up in the emergency department," said Kenneth Mandl, M.D., M.P.H., an attending physician in the department of emergency medicine at Children's Hospital, and a faculty member at the Harvard-MIT Division of Health Sciences and Technology.


By matching Nielsen ratings to data from a six-hospital disease surveillance system, Dr. Mandl and colleagues John Brownstein, Ph.D., and Ben Reis, Ph.D. found that during ALCS game 3, when the 0-2 Sox were muddling through a lopsided loss to the Yankees and again when Boston appeared to be headed for the agony of defeat in Game 4, suffering fans switched off their sets and headed to emergency departments throughout the city.


But when the Sox staged a stunning comeback in an extra-inning nail-biter that stretched into the wee hours in game 4, and went on to best the Yankees in another extra-inning marathon the following night, ER visits dipped to 5% below normal, in inverse proportion to climbing Nielsen ratings.


During game 7 of the ALCS, when Boston players finally laid the ghost of the Bambino to rest and doused the visitor's locker room at the House That Ruth Built with cheap champagne, nearly two-thirds of Boston area households were glued to their TV sets, and ER visits dropped about 15% below the expected volume.


The findings held up even when the data were adjusted for seasonal factors such as the incidence of flu cases, and for normal temporal fluctuations in ER volume.


"Among emergency physicians, decreased patient volume during major sporting events is a familiar and welcome phenomenon," the investigators wrote. "Although there is evidence that major sporting events affect health care use and outcomes, we sought to further characterize this relationship. Specifically, we measured the dose-response relationship between the magnitude of the event, as indicated by television viewership, and emergency department (ED) use during the 2004 Major League Baseball postseason."


The researchers got their data from the Automated Epidemiological Geotemporal Integrated Surveillance (AEGIS) system, a real-time outbreak-detection system for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. They looked at hourly emergency department volume during the 7 games of the ALCS and the 4 games of the World Series between the St. Louis Cardinals and the Red Sox, and correlated the data with Nielsen ratings for households in the greater Boston area during the 11 games.


"As expected, the ED data exhibit strong periodicity," the investigators wrote.


To determine differences in volume, they compared hourly visit ED rates during the playoffs and World Series with historical data from October 2002 and October 2003, but excluded data from the 2003 ALCS, when the Red Sox and Yankees also faced off.


Using linear regression analysis, they found that the highest-rated games were associated with lower ED volume, and the lowest-rated games were conversely associated with higher ED volumes.


"These findings suggest that timing of ED utilization has a strong discretionary component," the authors wrote. "Although previous studies have recorded decreased health care use during major events, this is the first study to characterize a linear dose-response relationship between event magnitude and decreased use. These results suggest that engagement with televised broadcasts of major events is one factor in patients' decisions to seek emergency care."


http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHealthPolicy/PublicHealth/tb/1807

[GefilteFish144]

It also helps that they don't have A-Rod walking in the street saving kids from moving cars.

[r. mutt]

Doom...despair...agony on me.

[r. mutt]

It also helps that they don't have A-Rod walking in the street saving kids from moving cars.

I think he only saves Yankees fans.

[lawfi5h]

So does anyone wanna win this thing?

Jesus jimminy.

[RedSoxFan]

On Sunday the Sox completed the sweep in Baltimore winning 9-3, and as the Yankees and Indians also won, remain tied for first in the East, and a half game back for the wild-card spot. The Sox scored 5 in the first inning and never looked back, adding 4 in the 5th. The first two Sox got out in the game, but Ortiz walked and Manny homered for his only hit of the game. Varitek gets POG for being the great catcher that he is, and he also went 1/2, walking three times, with one RBI, and 2 runs, including the winning run. Other than Manny, Damon, Olerud, and Mueller got 2 RBIs, Mueller having 3 of the team's 12 hits. Wells went 6.2 giving up 3 runs.

The Sox got rained out on Monday, possibly messing up the starting rotation for the stretch. Schilling had his start pushed to Tuesday night and will also pitch the season-finale: Wakefield started Tuesday afternoon and will go Saturday on short rest. So in the day game on Tuesday, Wakey put in yet another awesome performance, giving up just 1 unearned run in 7 innings, giving jup just 3 hits and a walk, striking out 6, and earning POG. He was taken out after finishing the 7th, having pitched 108 pitches, and he's going next on short rest, but you still wonder if the Sox couldn't have had Wakey go one more inning to save the bullpen for the night game. Papelbon pitched the 8th and Timlin the 9th. The Sox scored first for the 7th straight game, and it was all the runs they needed, as Damon singled, Renteria doubled, Ortiz hit a sac-grounder, and Manny singled in another. After the Jays got their only run in the top of the 5th, Ortiz hit an RBI double in the bottom of the frame.

Early in the night game, the Sox were up 3-0 and then 5-2, and cheers were heard in Fenway when the Yankees were down 5-1. Yet both the Yankees and Jays came back, but the Orioles held on for the win, something the Sox could not do. The Sox could not take advantage of the Yankees loss to move a game up in the East, and the Indians and White Sox also lost. A Renteria double in the 3rd put the Sox up 2-0, and Ortiz followed with an RBI single. Zaun homered in the top of the 4th to make it 3-2, but RBI singles from Damon and Renteria restored the 3 run lead. The Jays cut the lead back to one off of Schilling in the 5th, and tied it off of Schilling in the 7th. Hansen inherited a couple of Bradford runners and allowed one to score on a sac-fly, and in the 9th Gonzalez allowed a runner inherited from Harville to make it 7-5. The Sox chased Chacin early, but could not get to the bullpen: in the last five innings, the Sox only had three baserunners: two were erased on double plays, the other didn't advance to second. Both Damon and Renteria were 3/5, but Edgar had 3 RBIs to Damon's one, and gets POG. Schilling gave up 5 runs on 10 hits and a walk in 6.1 innings.

[MountainHawk]

Did you just say 'Jesus jimminy'?

[Jables]

http://starklab.slu.edu/Physiology/Bag.jpg .

[RedSoxFan]

Disappointing evening for the Red Sox, as they lose again to the Jays, at home, by a score of 7-2. The offense was again lackluster, as only Renteria shined, going 2/3 with 2 walks, 1 RBI, and 2 Rs. He hit a solo homer in the first after Bronson allowed a 2-run homer to start the inning. Bronson went just 3 innings, giving up all 7 runs. DiNardo went the next 4 innings without giving up a run, but the offense wasn't feeling up to coming back: the Sox stranded 7 baserunners in the 2nd through 5th innings, and also in the 8th got a couple men on with one out, but could only sneak one run through, in the 5th, off an Ortiz RBI single. Ortiz was the only Sox who had 2 hits, as the Sox actually totaled 8 hits and 6 walks. The Yankees also scored 2 runs tonight, but they won 2-1, so they are a game up in the East. The Indians lost, so remain tied with the Red Sox for the wild-card. They've lost two straight at home to the Devil Rays, losing tonight 1-0. The White Sox won and opened a 3-game lead on the Indians. Those two teams will play a 3 game series, and as the Sox and the Yankees wrap up against each other, there will be an exciting conclusion to the regular season.

[GefilteFish144]

That was a must-win game for the Sox since you don't know what you're going to get from Clement tonight. Seems to me that the Yanks and Sox are destined to finish in a dead tie, with both teams making the playoffs after Cleveland completes their free-fall.

[yankeetripper]

TORONTO!

Toronto 12-6 against the Sox. Toronto is treating the Sox like Tampa treated the Yankees.

Sox send Matt Clement to the hill who is just 3-4, 5.61 ERA post all-star break and 1-3, 5.79 ERA in September (though his last start against O's was impressive.)

A Yanks win and Sox loss today would leave the Sox in the uneviable postion of having to sweep Yanks this weekend so tonight is a big game. Yeah I know about the big comeback last year, but admit it sox fan you don't want have to try that every year :wink: .

[GefilteFish144]

Sox send Matt Clement to the hill who is just 3-4, 5.61 ERA post all-star break and 1-3, 5.79 ERA in September (though his last start against O's was impressive.)


Not that impressive, considering it's the O's. He also walked 6 -- that won't fly against most other teams (especially the Yankees).

[ThaLetters]

That was a must-win game for the Sox since you don't know what you're going to get from Clement tonight. Seems to me that the Yanks and Sox are destined to finish in a dead tie, with both teams making the playoffs after Cleveland completes their free-fall.
If the indians dont win tonite, the White Sox clinch the central. They'll need to win another game or two to clinch homefield advantage throughout the playoffs. If that happens in the next two games, they'll sorta get to choose their first round opponent. Play hard to knock the Indians out, and they get Yanks or Red Sox. Let the Indians win and they most likely get the Angels. Not that the Angels are bad, but I'd probably prefer them over the two teams in the east. This means the Indians could very well make the playoffs, even if they're struggling to win games lately...

[GefilteFish144]

Unless the White Sox start hitting soon, it won't matter who they play. Interestingly enough, their best pitcher right now is Contreras, i.e., the one who inspired the "Evil Empire" comment. Had the Yankees known he was finally going to get his head straight this year, they probably never would have gone after Jarrett Wrong. Still, would be interesting to see how he'd fare against the Red Sox. They flat out owned him when he was with the Yankees, but now that he's pitching well, it's tough to say.

[DW Simpson]

Mike Stanton is a Sock http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AmT8tNjA2_rwdVv5SsbZ3lARvLYF?slug=ap-nationals-redsoxtrade&prov=ap&type=lgns

[Patience]

Mike Stanton is a Sock http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AmT8tNjA2_rwdVv5SsbZ3lARvLYF?slug=ap-nationals-redsoxtrade&prov=ap&type=lgns

well he was better with WA the NYY, and he is better than Embry.

[yankeetripper]

Seams like a high price to rent a guy for 4 days.

[GefilteFish144]

2 prospects for a shot in the dark? Now THAT's desperation.

[Patience]

unless they were never expected to be anything anyway

[GefilteFish144]

Aaron Small was never expected to be anything either. Some people take longer to learn.

[Patience]

Aaron Small was never expected to be anything either. Some people take longer to learn.

is he something or is he just having a good run? 9-0 is nice, but the last 3 wins were mediocre pitching and the Yanks scoring a lot. Last outing was good.

besides if either of those guys first turn out to be something at 33 I guarantee they wouldn't be on their original team anyway

[yankeetripper]

unless they were never expected to be anything anyway
True a lot of 19 & 20 year olds never pan out but 2 prospects for a guy who may pitch to 6 to 8 batter over 4 games? I guess if Stanton gets 1 crucial out that gets Sox into playoffs, they'll consider it worth the risk.

[Patience]

better than Melvin Mora for Mike Bordick

[yankeetripper]

Is it my imagination or is every post on this page from yankee fans?
Wierd.

[GefilteFish144]

I believe Patience is a Mets fan -- and you certainly need lots of patience if you root for those guys....

[r. mutt]

BIG PAAAAAAAAAAPIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!! MVP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[r. mutt]

Is it my imagination or is every post on this page from yankee fans?
Wierd.

Not anymore, honey.

[Apollywog]

I love that man!

[r. mutt]

BIG PAAAAAAAAAAPIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!! MVP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

M.V.P.

[r. mutt]

I love that man!

Ain't he somethin'?

I wonder if anyone's considered him for MVP?

[GefilteFish144]

The sleeping giant is up -- Yankee pitchers better give him the Barry Bonds treatment.

[Jables]

I love that man!

Me too. :D

:oops:

[IAm@Work.com]

Who scripts these things?

[Hagbard Celine]

What an awesome game!

[DaveyDo]

As a born and raised Indians fan, I am forced to actually


Oh wait a second.

:exams:

Sorry about that.
I have to root for..
Oh no.

:exams:

Sorry.


I have to root for the Yankees.

:exams: :exams: :exams:

[yankeetripper]

The sleeping giant is up -- Yankee pitchers better give him the Barry Bonds treatment.

Why waste 4 when you can knock him down with one? Used to work for Pedro.

[Patience]

I believe Patience is a Mets fan -- and you certainly need lots of patience if you root for those guys....

I am, and in all honesty I actually enjoy watching the team play. There is a lot of exciting youth out there

[yankeetripper]

I am, and in all honesty I actually enjoy watching the team play. There is a lot of exciting youth out there

You have my sympathy.

[GefilteFish144]

I am, and in all honesty I actually enjoy watching the team play. There is a lot of exciting youth out there

Team's a lot better to watch now that Randolph's there. As a Yankee fan, I want him to do well, as long as it's not at the expense of the Yankees. ;)

[Patience]

Team's a lot better to watch now that Randolph's there. As a Yankee fan, I want him to do well, as long as it's not at the expense of the Yankees. ;)

Randolph is ok, not great. Reminds me of Herm Edwards somewhat, he communicates well, he motivates well, he keeps it all on an even keel. But on game day some of his decisions make you scratch your head.

Right now the stuff he is good at out weighs the bad, especially for a rookie coach who should learn from his mistakes.

[r. mutt]

Feeling ambivalent about Renteria batting 2nd. He's been hitting into double plays all year, but the last week or so he's been tearing it up.

[r. mutt]

Feeling ambivalent about Renteria batting 2nd. He's been hitting into double plays all year, but the last week or so he's been tearing it up.

And that would have been a DP if JD hadn't stolen. :shake:

[r. mutt]

MVP! MVP!

Thanks for pitching to him AND not shifting!

[GefilteFish144]

How about THAT for a bizarro world -- A-Rod makes an error and Giambi makes a good throw....

[PK]

Who got the Wells costume for Pedro? You know, that pitcher who allows runs in the first inning and then settles down for the next 5 or 6.

[r. mutt]

Sox are doing everything they can to help Wang. When a guy has thrown 7 of 8 for balls, why swing at a bad pitch on 3-1?

[2M]

5-3 Sox in the 7th

[r. mutt]

O the tension.

[Jables]

All tied up!!

[yankeetripper]

Sox are doing everything they can to help Wang. When a guy has thrown 7 of 8 for balls, why swing at a bad pitch on 3-1?
Maybe becuase after Wells loaded the base in the first the Yanks decided to hack too? I'd be nice if the stike zone was the same for both teams. It really isn't too much to ask.

[Pseudolus]

Torre should've yanked Wang earlier.

I'm very sorry. I think it's a sickness.

[Jables]

Since this thread has devolved into discussions of other teams as well, let me just say:

Ross Gload!

:wav:

[GefilteFish144]

I'm partying with you Jables. WC magic # for AL East loser is 2.

[RedSoxFan]

Two huge games for the Sox put them back into a tie with the Yankees in the East with two games left. On Thursday Clement struggled and the Sox were down 4-1 in the top of the 5th, and the bases were loaded with Jays with one out. A dribbler came down the first base line, and Clement threw it sidearm away from his body and right to Varitek for the force out at the plate, and he got another grounder to escape danger. Then in the bottom of the 6th, Manny's homer cut the lead to 4-3. Papi stepped up his case for MVP by leading off the 8th with a game-tying homer, and after Manny walked and Varitek singled him to third, it looked like the go-ahead run was imminent. Olerud flied out to center too shallow, and Mueller struck out and Nixon flied out, and the Sox wasted the great opportunity. Papelbon, in his third inning of work, allowed just a 2-out double, and in the bottom of the inning, with one out and men at first and second (Damon singled, then stole second, and Renteria walked), Papi came up big again, with a walk-off single, and the obvious POG. Papi's line was 3/5 with a pair of runs and RBIs, while Manny went 2/3 with 2 RBI and 2 R. The Sox survived a third straight poor start, as Clement gave up 4 runs in 5 innings. Myers went 1.1 before Papelbon pitched the rest. The Yankees and Indians both won, so the Sox remain a game behind the Yanks in the East and tied with the Indians for the wild card.

In game one of the season-ending series against the Yankees, Wells was rocky in the first inning, allowing two walks. He loaded the bases by hitting Sheffield in the first, and allowed an RBI single, but recovered to strike out Posada and induce Sierra to fly out. The Sox then tied it right away on an RBI single from Ortiz. Wells settled down, allowing just one baserunner over the next 4 innings, and though he allowed two on with one out in the 6th, he then also retired Posada and Sierra to end the inning. Back to the bottom of the second, however, when Varitek led it off with a solo homer. Wang then settled down, getting three groundouts, and he also got Ortiz to ground into a double play in the 3rd. Wang got in trouble in the 6th though, letting Damon single and then steal (his third in two games) and after Renteria struck out, Wang intentionally walked Ortiz to get to Manny, who singled to load the bases. Nixon walked in a run to make it 3-1. Varitek grounded to first, but Giambi's throw home was off, and Ortiz was safe: 4-1. Olerud then hit a sac-fly to make it 5-1. Those insurance runs were important, as Wells allowed a 2-run homer to Jeter in the 7th. But in the last two innings, the Yankees could only manage a 2-out single in the 9th. Bradford got Sheffield in the top of the 8th, Myers got Matsui, who had been 3/3 in the game, and Timlin came in to get Posada, and stayed in for the 9th to get Sierra and Williams to strike out, and after Cano's single, Jeter grounded out to end the game. The Sox scored their 5 runs on 4 hits, the Yankees managing only 3 runs on 7 hits. One could award Papi POG for going 1/2 with 2 of the team's 7 walks, but the POG is going to Timlin, who had to pitch more than an inning for a save for the first time this year, and did it almost perfectly, in the obvious high-pressure situation.

The Sox came into the game needing to win 3 of 4 (that fourth would be a playoff game if the Sox won 2 of the first 3), akin to a 7 game series with the Sox down 2-1. No sweat, of course, as the Sox trailed the Yankees 3-0 before winning the ALCS. Now with the win it is simply a 2 out of 3 affair, with the next two in Fenway, and if the teams split, the playoff is in NY.

A rematch of the Randy Johnson - Wakefield duel is up tomorrow, both pitchers having done quite well recently, with Sunday's matchups a couple of solid veterans who have struggled recently: Mussina and Schilling.

Also, the Indians lost in 13 innings 3-2: they had been down 1-0 for most of the game before tying it in the 9th, but still lost. The Indians are choking down the stretch: they've lost 4 of their last 5, one loss coming to the lowly Royals, two more, at home, to the lowly Devil Rays, and then tonight to the White Sox, who were resting over half their starters, having just clinched the Central. The Indians are now a game behind the East contenders. If the Sox and Yankees split the next two games, the Indians will have to win their last two to earn a playoff against the team that loses the playoff for the East crown. If the Indians lose one more game, they'll still have a playoff if either the Sox or Yankees win the next two (if they win both in this scenario, they have the wild card).

[r. mutt]

Maybe becuase after Wells loaded the base in the first the Yanks decided to hack too? I'd be nice if the stike zone was the same for both teams. It really isn't too much to ask.

:lol: Blame the ump.

[RedSoxFan]

:lol:

• Derek Jeter, who had homered in his previous at-bat, came to the plate with two outs in the ninth as the potential tying run, but grounded out to end the game. It marked the 11th time this season that the Yankees had lost a game in which Jeter made the last out with the potential tying run either on base or at bat. That's the highest such total for any player in the majors.

[Pseudolus]

Mr. Clutch!

[2M]

7-2 Yankees in the 6th

[RedSoxFan]

7-2 Yankees in the 6th

White Sox up 4-1 in 7th

[GefilteFish144]

Now 4-3 CWS, Cleveland has bases loaded, 1 out, Rafael Bellyache at bat....

[2M]

Yankees 8-4 in the 8th

[GefilteFish144]

Woo-hoo! Aaron "Effing" Boone strikes out! C'mon Jenksie, give us the division!

[RedSoxFan]

Indians had the bases loaded with one out in the 8th, but do not tie the game, and lose, 4-3. That means the worst the Sox can do, losing today and tomorrow, will still give them a home playoff against the Indians for the wild card.

That's huge news for the Sox, but bittersweet, as the Yankees are now three outs from clinching the AL East, division champs again.

[2M]

Yankees win

[PK]

:lol: Blame the ump.Congrats to the Yankees, but two questions from someone who could only listen to the game:

1) Did the ball hit Ortiz in the first? If it did, then we're tied at least after 1.
2) What happened with Matsui running to second? Radio announcers claim on the replay that he ran into the grass, but I never heard the final call as we had arrived at our destination in the car.

[link]

Congrats to the Yankees, but two questions from someone who could only listen to the game:

1) Did the ball hit Ortiz in the first? If it did, then we're tied at least after 1.
2) What happened with Matsui running to second? Radio announcers claim on the replay that he ran into the grass, but I never heard the final call as we had arrived at our destination in the car.

Matsui went 3-4 ft into the infield grass. He wasn't called out, though. Didn't see the Ortiz play.

[RedSoxFan]

For the 8th time in a row, the Yankees are East division champions. You have to give them credit, they were .500 very late into the season, battled numerous injuries in the starting rotation, but were bailed by Small and Chacon, cast offs from their previous teams, who made impressive starts for them down the stretch.

The Yankees beat the Sox this afternoon 8-4, and though the Red Sox can tie the Yankees with 95 wins with a win tomorrow, the Indians can get no more than 94 wins, and since the tie wouldn't matter for who gets into the playoffs, the Yankees are crowned champ by virtue of clinching the season series against the Sox, up 10-8 now.

Wakefield had had several very good starts in a row, and the Yankees have traditionally not done well against him (the last time vs. New York, Wakey allowed one run pitching a complete game), but Wakey was pitching on 3-days rest. You might not think that would matter for a knuckleballer, but apparently it did, as he allowed 3 runs in the top of the first, including a 2-run homer to Sheffield. The Yankees started Randy Johnson, who shut the Red Sox out last time they faced him, allowed a 2-run homer to Manny in the bottom of the first. But Wakey still wasn't sharp, as he allowed the first two batters in the second to hit, and then allowed two sac flies that restored the 3-run margin.

The Sox got to Randy again in the second. Mueller walked, but then Mirabelli and Nixon both struck out. Graffanino singled and Damon walked to load the bases, but Renteria struck out. Wakey got better, but still allowed solo homers in the 3rd and 5th, one to A-rod, who came a triple short of the cycle making his case for MVP, but Randy got even better, not allowing the Sox to threaten again. Randy's pitch count was high early and was above 90 after 5, but ended up going 7 and getting Ortiz out to start the 8th, and only allowed a solo homer to Graffanino down the stretch.

Stanton, who played for the Sox in the past but was most recently of the Yankees earlier this year, and was cast-off, was traded for by the Sox to help in the last games of the season (acquired so late, he's not available for the postseason), and did help, pitching the sixth without incident. Jeremi Gonzalez got the Yanks out 1-2-3 in the 7th but allowed A-rod to double in the 8th. DiNardo got Giambi to strike out, and walked Sheffield intentionally, but Matsui singled to load the bases. Cano grounded sharply to Renteria, who tried to get out of the inning with a double play, tagging Matsui and throwing to first. Well, Matsui avoided the tag by running to the infield grass (yet was not called out for going out of the base path) and by the time Renteria's throw reached first, Cano was safe. Fortunately DiNardo got out of the jam without allowing another run, and it was 8-4. Manny was the first batter Gordon faced, and he hit his second homer of the game, earning POG, but Olerud grounded out and Mueller struck out. Bradford and Hansen teamed up to get through the 9th, but Rivera got the Sox out 1-2-3 after allowing a lead off single to Varitek. Wakey gave up 7 in 5. Graffanino went 3/3 with an RBI and a run. Manny's 2 HRs were his only hits. Damon went 0/2, but drew walks in his first two plate appearances. Randy Johnson was upset at the umpire early but got through his early struggles.

A week ago, the White Sox were on the brink of one of the biggest collapses in regular season history, having had such a big lead in the middle of the season, with the red-hot Indians approaching fast. The Indians are in the midst of a huge collapse, having lost 5 of their last 6, trailing the Sox by a game in the wild card. It's simple for the Sox: win tomorrow, and they're in the playoffs as the wild card. Lose, and they play the Indians in Fenway on Monday to see who will advance.

[Sox34]

Matsui went 3-4 ft into the infield grass. He wasn't called out, though. Didn't see the Ortiz play.

The ball grazed Ortiz's arm - but it wasn't called.

[GefilteFish144]

Congrats to the Yankees, but two questions from someone who could only listen to the game:

1) Did the ball hit Ortiz in the first? If it did, then we're tied at least after 1.
2) What happened with Matsui running to second? Radio announcers claim on the replay that he ran into the grass, but I never heard the final call as we had arrived at our destination in the car.

1) Ball may have grazed him, but was tough to tell. Home plate ump didn't call a very good game -- Fox broadcasters said that the sun may have impaired his vision.

2) He ran on the grass all right. Didn't make much of a difference, since the ball wasn't hit hard enough for a DP and the Yankees didn't tack on any runs after that.

Red Sox will probably win tomorrow since Yankees will be playing their B team. (Yes, you may even be lucky enough to see Bellhorn and Embree tomorrow.) Red Sox will get the better matchup against the White Sox. Yankees get stuck with their nemesis in Disneyland, but maybe they'll get lucky.

[Pseudolus]

2) He ran on the grass all right. Didn't make much of a difference, since the ball wasn't hit hard enough for a DP and the Yankees didn't tack on any runs after that.Yeah, not sure what the ump thought he saw/didn't see on that to not call Matsui out. Renteria was clearly moving towards him for a tag, and Matsui clearly went out of the baseline to avoid him. Didn't matter, but, still, you like to see calls made correctly.

Red Sox will probably win tomorrow since Yankees will be playing their B team.Or will George/Torre/whoever makes the decisions over there try to take a shot at knocking the Red Sox out entirely?

Most important play of the game: Renteria striking out with 2 outs bases loaded. :shake:

[GefilteFish144]

Or will George/Torre/whoever makes the decisions over there try to take a shot at knocking the Red Sox out entirely?

Strategically would be a good move to try to force Boston into a playoff Monday, but the priority is to give the tired players a rest. Bernie, Sheff, and Giambi are definitely sitting, at most 5 innings for the rest of the starters (except for Cano). Godzilla probably plays DH, and certainly no Flash and Mo in the bullpen. 80 pitches tops for Moose; Sturtze, Embree, Leiter and Proctor probably get an inning each.

[DW Simpson]

Or will Torre makes the decisions over there try to take a shot at knocking the Red Sox out entirely?

Boy I hope so.

[Jables]

Congrats to the MFY... :shake:

Hopefully the Sox can still get in one way or the other...

[Wonder Boy]

the worst the Sox will have is a one game play-off. they only have to win 1 of the next 2 games to get in. i think they are in.

[2M]

And besides wildcard's quite often win the series anyway, they still have a shot.

[RedSoxFan]

Boy I hope so.

Guess not, I heard Wright is starting instead of Mussina.

[RedSoxFan]

It's simple for the Sox: win tomorrow, and they're in the playoffs as the wild card. Lose, and they play the Indians in Fenway on Monday to see who will advance.

Oops, I said it was simple, but I messed up: we can still get in without a playoff even if we lose if the Indians lose again to the White Sox.

[RedSoxFan]

Guess not, I heard Wright is starting instead of Mussina.

I'm hoping for a third 17-1 victory this season vs. the Yankees.

BTW - something someone pointed out to me about the Indians' collapse: during their 1-5 stretch, they've actually outscored their opponents. Their win was by 6 runs, while each of the 5 losses have been by one run.

[r. mutt]

the worst the Sox will have is a one game play-off. they only have to win 1 of the next 2 games to get in. i think they are in.

Easy to say from the other side. I don't want to underestimate the Yankees' instinct to beat them today like I underestimated Chicago's recent will to show they're no walkover.

Or maybe Chicago has finally just relaxed.

[Wonder Boy]

yeah, but even if the Yankees beat the Sox today, the Sox are not eliminated. where would the playoff game be played?

[MountainHawk]

yeah, but even if the Yankees beat the Sox today, the Sox are not eliminated. where would the playoff game be played?

If Cleveland wins and the Sox lose, there is a playoff game tomorrow in Fenway.

[2M]

If Boston Wins, the Red Sox get the wild card
If Boston and Cleveland both lose, the Red Sox get the Wild Card
If Boston loses and Cleveland wins, Cleveland plays at Boston on Moday in a 1-game playoff

Yankees clinched

If the Angels win and Yankees lose first round matchupss are Yankees-Angels and Red Sox - White Sox

If the Indians lose and Yankees win, first round matchups are Yankees-Angels amd Red Sox - White Sox

If Angels and Yankees & Indians win and the Indians beat the Red SOx, the first round matchups are Angels-White Sox and Indians-Yankees

[2M]

Boston 6-0 in the 5th inning

[lawfi5h]

Boston 6-0 in the 5th inning

Does not matter.

The indians fell on their face, and BOS is in.

[2M]

Then it is assured

Yankees-Angels

Red Sox-White Sox are the playoff matchups

[GefilteFish144]

Congrats to the Sox. Hope to see you guys in the LCS again, as long as Jarrett Wrong's not pitching....

[Jables]

Woo-hoo! 3rd straight year in the playoffs, a first in Sox history! :D

[Mick Fan]

Start 92-63, fall flat on face! Boy did the Indians gag a great season away in one week.

Let's see, the AL playoffs are New York, Boston, Chicago, and Los Angeles. Nah ... There's no advantage to the big-market teams.

[DW Simpson]

Let's see, the AL playoffs are New York, Boston, Chicago, and Los Angeles. Nah ... There's no advantage to the big-market teams.

The Yankees got in because of scraps they picked up that any team could have had.

The White Sox aren't even a big-market team in their own town.

[IAm@Work.com]

The Yankees got in because of scraps they picked up that any team could have had.I thought you were a Yankee fan? Is that any way to talk about Mr. Rodriguez?

[GefilteFish144]

Start 92-63, fall flat on face! Boy did the Indians gag a great season away in one week.

Let's see, the AL playoffs are New York, Boston, Chicago, and Los Angeles. Nah ... There's no advantage to the big-market teams.

Can't really say the Indians choked, since they were a young team who came out of nowhere to contend in the playoffs. It's amazing that they could even put together such a winning streak just to get to this spot. The kids will learn from this and move on to bigger and better things next year.

Claude is right. Not only do most Chicago people like the Cubs, but most LA people like the Dodgers. Angels still are a "small-market" team. Aside from Guerrero and Colon, I don't know of any high-priced free agents.

[Pseudolus]

Claude is right. Not only do most Chicago people like the Cubs, but most LA people like the Dodgers. Angels still are a "small-market" team. Aside from Guerrero and Colon, I don't know of any high-priced free agents.I thought this was an interesting thought, so I went and checked something. Here are the 2005 salary figures as reported by USA Today:

New York Yankees $ 208,306,817
Boston Red Sox $ 123,505,125
New York Mets $ 101,305,821
Los Angeles Angels $ 97,725,322
Philadelphia Phillies $ 95,522,000
St. Louis Cardinals $ 92,106,833
San Francisco Giants $ 90,199,500
Seattle Mariners $ 87,754,334
Chicago Cubs $ 87,032,933
Atlanta Braves $ 86,457,302
Los Angeles Dodgers $ 83,039,000
Houston Astros $ 76,779,000
Chicago White Sox $ 75,178,000
Baltimore Orioles $ 73,914,333
Detroit Tigers $ 69,092,000
San Diego Padres $ 63,290,833
Arizona Diamondbacks $ 62,329,166
Cincinnati Reds $ 61,892,583
Florida Marlins $ 60,408,834
Minnesota Twins $ 56,186,000
Texas Rangers $ 55,849,000
Oakland Athletics $ 55,425,762
Washington Nationals $ 48,581,500
Colorado Rockies $ 48,155,000
Toronto Blue Jays $ 45,719,500
Cleveland Indians $ 41,502,500
Milwaukee Brewers $ 39,934,833
Pittsburgh Pirates $ 38,133,000
Kansas City Royals $ 36,881,000
Tampa Bay Devil Rays $ 29,679,067 http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2005

Salarywise, the Cubs are ahead of the White Sox, so that's supported. But the Angels, by this measure, don't really look like a "small market" team.

[GefilteFish144]

I thought this was an interesting thought, so I went and checked something. Here are the 2005 salary figures as reported by USA Today:

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2005

Salarywise, the Cubs are ahead of the White Sox, so that's supported. But the Angels, by this measure, don't really look like a "small market" team.

LOL, from the perspective of Yankee and Red Sox fans, everyone's a "small market" team.

[Pseudolus]

LOL, from the perspective of Yankee and Red Sox fans, everyone's a "small market" team.Sox and Yankees obviously have the two biggest numbers, but the Yankees are way, way out ahead. The only other team with even HALF the Yankees payroll is the Red Sox, while more than half of the other teams have payrolls more than half the Sox. I'm not saying the Red Sox don't spend a lot, just that it's not "Two teams way ahead of everyone else," but it is "One team way ahead, then a big jump, and then a gradual decline".

[Pseudolus]

In graphic form:

[yankeetripper]

Sox and Yankees obviously have the two biggest numbers, but the Yankees are way, way out ahead. The only other team with even HALF the Yankees payroll is the Red Sox, while more than half of the other teams have payrolls more than half the Sox. I'm not saying the Red Sox don't spend a lot, just that it's not "Two teams way ahead of everyone else," but it is "One team way ahead, then a big jump, and then a gradual decline".

So get a bigger stadium and a better TV deal.

[Pseudolus]

Hey, I'm just talking "positive" here. You sound a bit defensive when you jump into normativity unprovoked.

[yankeetripper]

Hey, I'm just talking "positive" here. You sound a bit defensive when you jump into normativity unprovoked.

I'm just giving you a hard time. I like the fact that Steinbrener spends money like a drunken sailor to keep Yanks near the top of the heap year in and year out and he at least delegates most of the baseball stuff to cashman who knows what he's doing.

Is it fair that the Yanks out spend every other team by a wide margin? No. But until baseball changes the way it does business and as long as steinbrener is writing the checks it ain't gonna change.

btw - I like fenway park. those "old time stadiums" just have someting the newer parks lack, no matter how nice they are.

[Pseudolus]

Fair 'nuff. I'm not a super-strong proponent of salary-cap-type stuff, but I'm not dead set against it, either. As far as Fenway, well, it's a helluva lot nicer than Shea.

[yankeetripper]

Fair 'nuff. I'm not a super-strong proponent of salary-cap-type stuff, but I'm not dead set against it, either. As far as Fenway, well, it's a helluva lot nicer than Shea.

I agree on Salary cap but "poorer" teams should be forced to spend more of the revenue sharing and luxury tax money on making their teams more competative. Instead of just going to bottom line.

I like the A's but year and year out despite bad attendence and (usually a lower 1/3 payroll) they some how manage to be one of the teams that turns a profit each year but at least they are competative. KC is another one that always seams to takes the reveune sharing money and instead of getting talent, sends it to the owners bottom line.

[Mick Fan]

I thought this was an interesting thought, so I went and checked something. Here are the 2005 salary figures as reported by USA Today:

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2005

Salarywise, the Cubs are ahead of the White Sox, so that's supported. But the Angels, by this measure, don't really look like a "small market" team.

So, basically, in the AL, the teams that made the playoffs were ranked # 1, 2, 3, and 5 in payroll. Shame on the Mariners.

[yankeetripper]

So, basically, in the AL, the teams that made the playoffs were ranked # 1, 2, 3, and 5 in payroll. Shame on the Mariners.

But M's couldn't finish above 2 & 3. This was the best finish money could buy. :smiles:

[RedSoxFan]

The Sox finished the season on a positive note, beating the Yankees 10-1. The Yankees clinched the division the day before, and had Jarret Wright start instead of using up Mussina, but still batting all starters, since they could clinch home-field in the first round. They couldn't get to Schilling early, and after the Red Sox, already up 7-1, clinched their postseason spot by virtue of the Indians loss, both teams made wholesale substitutions. Manny earned POG and went 2/2 with 2 walks, 3 RBIs, and 1 R, including his homer that broke the game open in the 4th inning. Mueller also had two hits, including a fourth inning homer. Schilling gave up just 1 run in 6 innings, on 8 hits and a walk. Timlin was on the mound for the final out.

The Yankees lost and the Angels won, so New York will have to travel to Los Angeles to start their playoff series.

Clement will face Contreras in game 1 of the Sox vs. Sox series, Tuesday at 4pm.

[Guerilla poster]

But M's couldn't finish above 2 & 3. This was the best finish money could buy. :smiles:


But these teams have more fans, so shouldn't that mean they have better teams?

[Mike and Maddog]

socks finish the season on a negative note, blowing the division lead to the rival Yankees. Second class citizens once again.

[Triangle Man]

socks finish the season on a negative note, blowing the division lead to the rival Yankees. Second class citizens once again.The regular season doesn't mean a thing. It's only a negative season if the Yankees win the World Series, and I don't think they can even beat the Angels.

[Pseudolus]

socks finish the season on a negative note, blowing the division lead to the rival Yankees. Second class citizens once again.But then the Yankers blew their lead on the last day of the season, leaving the two teams tied, with identical records.

[Guerilla poster]

socks finish the season on a negative note, blowing the division lead to the rival Yankees. Second class citizens once again.


It seems the Yankees only sucesses are if the Red Sox hand them something.

[Wannabe Actuary]

Red Sox Fan, it seems back on page 93 there was some dispute over the POG going to Renteria. Please feel free to change it if you feel someone else was more deserving, perhaps Clement...

[Wannabe Actuary]

also, in post #1 you have an extra "Player of the Game Totals" after game 154...

[RedSoxFan]

also, in post #1 you have an extra "Player of the Game Totals" after game 154...

heh, I was wondering where that had gone...

[Wannabe Actuary]

heh, I was wondering where that had gone...and as I mentioned, perhaps Clement should have gotten POG over Renteria...if you agree, change that POG as well.

[Wannabe Actuary]

My brother (a fellow Red Sox fan) has gone to 3 Red Sox vs Yankee games this year.

Results of those games...

Sox win 17-1 at Yankee stadium
Sox win 9-2 at Yankee stadium
Sox win 10-1 at Fenway

I think my brother needs to attend every freakin' game

[Hagbard Celine]

100 pages.

WOOOT

[Hagbard Celine]

My brother (a fellow Red Sox fan) has gone to 3 Red Sox vs Yankee games this year.

Results of those games...

Sox win 17-1 at Yankee stadium
Sox win 9-2 at Yankee stadium
Sox win 10-1 at Fenway

I think my brother needs to attend every freakin' game

I went to 2 games, a loss to Detroit and a loss to the NYY (ending the audacious home win streak we had this year at some point). I guess I shouldn't go to any freakin' game. :(

[RedSoxFan]

ALDS Game 1

The two starting pitchers came into this one with opposite seasons: Clement started 9-1 but struggled down the stretch of the season, and Contreras was iffy early on but had a great second half, with a very good September. This game went as one could predict: Contreras was solid, Clement struggled. Clement had action on his pitches, he just had absolutely no control. He hit two of the first three batters he faced, and both ended up scoring. Later in the first inning, he allowed two more singles followed by a homer to Pierzyinski that put the White Sox up 5-0.

Contreras pitched very well towards the end of his outing, allowing just one baserunner beginning with the fifth inning, that a double to Ortiz in the top of the 8th. Renteria doubled with one out in the first, and Nixon singled to start the 2nd, but neither runner advanced. In the third, Graffanino led off with a double, and after Damon struck out and Renteria flied out, Ortiz singled Tony to third, but Manny grounded out. The Sox finally scored in the 4th, when Trot again led off the inning with a single. Varitek then laid down a great bunt to third. He would have reached first anyway, but both runners took extra bases when Joe Crede, lauded during the regular season by the White Sox announcers as probably the best defensive third basemen ever, kicked the ball behind home plate. Contreras then threw a wild pitch that plated one run, and Millar then doubled in the second run. The Sox still had a man on second with none out, but the tide turned: Mueller grounded it sharply to second, and Iguchi made a gutsy play, throwing to third for the out. Graffanino then grounded out, and Damon struck out, to end the inning.

Clement allowed just a single in the 2nd, and a solo homer in the third, but was chased when he allowed a one-out two-run homer in the 4th to make it 8-6. Now Contreras had been getting the low-strike all afternoon, so Francona went to the side-throwing Bradford, who demonstrated that the low-strike was indeed available to both teams. Bradford got all seven batters out that he faced. For some reason Francona brought in Gonzalez to get the last out of the fifth, which he did, but Jeremi allowed 4 runs in the 6th, including a 3-run homer to Podsednik, who did not homer at all in the regular season. The score was then 12-2. The White Sox scored two more in the 8th off of Arroyo, including Pierzynski's second homer of the game, making it five homers total for the home team.

Clement made a gutsy play in the 3rd. He was hit in the leg by a ball from the bat of Everett. He fell to the ground, but recovered, found the ball which had traveled about 8 feet towards third, and threw to first in time for the out. All 8 runs he gave up were earned, giving up 7 hits in his 3.1 innings. He walked none, but struck out none. Trot gets POG: he got hits in his first two at bats to try to spark the Sox. He scored one of the two runs, and finished 2/4. The only other Sox with more than 1 of the team's 9 hits was Papi. The Sox curiously did not draw a walk. Pierzynski went 3/3 with 4 each of RBIs and runs. Uribe went 2/4, and Podsednik went 2/3 and a walk. Both of those two had 3 RBIs and 2 runs. Contreras gave up 2 runs on 8 hits in 7.2, striking out six. Cotts and Politte also saw time on the mound for the victors.

Game 2 is today at 7pm EST on ESPN.

[MountainHawk]

A game summary that never mentions the final score. LOL, nice.

[Guerilla poster]

A game summary that never mentions the final score. LOL, nice.

1 to 0

[Jables]

A game summary that never mentions the final score. LOL, nice.

The score was then 12-2. The White Sox scored two more in the 8th off of Arroyo

14-2

[MountainHawk]

14-2


That was not in the summary. Granted, you could get there, but a game summary really should mention the final score.

Which was 14-2.

[Wannabe Actuary]

That was not in the summary. Granted, you could get there, but a game summary really should mention the final score.

Which was 14-2.
what was the phillies score again....oh yeah

[MountainHawk]

what was the phillies score again....oh yeah


Rather be the Phillies with a solid young team that just missed, rather than the dying team that is the Red Sox, as they fall apart in front of our eyes.

[DW Simpson]

My brother (a fellow Red Sox fan) has gone to 3 Red Sox vs Yankee games this year.

Results of those games...

Sox win 17-1 at Yankee stadium
Sox win 9-2 at Yankee stadium
Sox win 10-1 at Fenway

I think my brother needs to attend every freakin' game

Appropos of nothing, in '93 when the Phils went to the Series, I went to 6 regular season games, a playoff game and a Series game. They were 0-8 in those games.

[MountainHawk]

Appropos of nothing, in '93 when the Phils went to the Series, I went to 6 regular season games, a playoff game and a Series game. They were 0-8 in those games.


You suck. :-x

[DW Simpson]

You suck.

No, they did.

[Wannabe Actuary]

Appropos of nothing, in '93 when the Phils went to the Series, I went to 6 regular season games, a playoff game and a Series game. They were 0-8 in those games.honestly I know he has no impact, but it's a strange outcome...all 3 blowout wins

[MountainHawk]

No, they did.


Actually, they didn't. They were two outs away from being in game 7 of the WS.

[DW Simpson]

Actually, they didn't. They were two outs away from being in game 7 of the WS.

Yup.

[Mike and Maddog]

A game summary that never mentions the final score. LOL, nice.

Or a POG. Granted there shouldn't be one in a blowout loss, but that didn't stop sockfan during the regular season.

[Triangle Man]

Rather be the Phillies with a solid young team that just missed, rather than the dying team that is the Red Sox, as they fall apart in front of our eyes.I'm probably going to regret saying this, but I think there's a decent chance next year's Red Sox will have a lower average age than the Phillies. Wakefield will still be around, but I think Schilling might retire, and Wells said that he'd retire if the Red Sox win it all. Either way, the Sox starting rotation next year will certainly feature one rookie, there will probably be a rookie in CF and 2B, and Youkilis will probably be the full-time 3B. The Sox are getting younger.

[lawfi5h]

I'm probably going to regret saying this, but I think there's a decent chance next year's Red Sox will have a lower average age than the Phillies. Wakefield will still be around, but I think Schilling might retire, and Wells said that he'd retire if the Red Sox win it all. Either way, the Sox starting rotation next year will certainly feature one rookie, there will probably be a rookie in CF and 2B, and Youkilis will probably be the full-time 3B. The Sox are getting younger.

But the Sox are in the AL...its a completely different game in the AL, remember?

In the AL you can be old cause all we do is hit home runs and stuff. But in the NL they do things like the double switch which require youth and spunk.

Or is it the AL needs to be younger cause we hit home runs and stuff. But in the NL they do things like the double switch which requires age and wisdom?

Hmmmm....I'll get back to you on that.

[Wannabe Actuary]

I'm probably going to regret saying this, but I think there's a decent chance next year's Red Sox will have a lower average age than the Phillies. Wakefield will still be around, but I think Schilling might retire, and Wells said that he'd retire if the Red Sox win it all. Either way, the Sox starting rotation next year will certainly feature one rookie, there will probably be a rookie in CF and 2B, and Youkilis will probably be the full-time 3B. The Sox are getting younger.Probably...Youk has been getting ready for 3B for 2 years now. It's time he steps in full time. Damon might be too expensive and the Sox have some young guy who's supposed to be good. They'll likely go after more pitching in the offseason, but Papelbon and Hansen are the youth for the bullpen.

[Triangle Man]

Or is it the AL needs to be younger cause we hit home runs and stuff. But in the NL they do things like the double switch which requires age and wisdom?The NL certainly seems to be home to more elderly managers than the AL.

[yankeetripper]

Actually, they didn't. They were two outs away from being in game 7 of the WS.

They also blew 5 run leads, twice in the same game that series.

[MountainHawk]

They also blew 5 run leads, twice in the same game that series.

Yes, yes we did. It was a painful, painful game.

[Mike and Maddog]

Graf does his Buckner impression!

[Triangle Man]

I thought we ended the curse last year. Who knew it was merely taking a year off?

[GefilteFish144]

I thought we ended the curse last year. Who knew it was merely taking a year off?

Red Sox are playing where they are most comfortable -- with their backs against the wall. They are almost guanrateed to tie up the series at Fenway.

[R2T]

I'm not arguing with you, but I will point out that this White Sox team is better than that Yankees team that blew the 3-0 lead last year. Also, this Red Sox team is not nearly as good. I seriously doubt this series will make it back to Chicago. The White Sox are a very solid team. I concede that the Red Sox play great ball at home, I just don't think they got it this year.

If they must come back and dash my hopes of a White Sox WS, I hope they play the Yankees again. It doesn't get much better in the baseball world (if your team has been eliminated already) than watching the Bombers and the Red Sox battle it out in October.