Boston Red Sox - 2005 Season

[GefilteFish144]

I'm not arguing with you, but I will point out that this White Sox team is better than that Yankees team that blew the 3-0 lead last year. Also, this Red Sox team is not nearly as good. I seriously doubt this series will make it back to Chicago. The White Sox are a very solid team. I concede that the Red Sox play great ball at home, I just don't think they got it this year.

If they must come back and dash my hopes of a White Sox WS, I hope they play the Yankees again. It doesn't get much better in the baseball world (if your team has been eliminated already) than watching the Bombers and the Red Sox battle it out in October.

It's true that the Red Sox are not as good, and I'd be surprised if they reached the WS again this year, but they are still good enough to beat the WS. Wakefield is their best pitcher right now, and while Schilling is not last year's Schilling, he still has solid playoff experience. Red Sox can win Game 5 if Arroyo starts, but they would probably have to pull off one of their dramatic come-from-behind victories with Papi launching one. With a young closer like Jenks, that's not asking a whole lot.

[Triangle Man]

I'm not arguing with you, but I will point out that this White Sox team is better than that Yankees team that blew the 3-0 lead last year. Also, this Red Sox team is not nearly as good. I seriously doubt this series will make it back to Chicago. The White Sox are a very solid team. I concede that the Red Sox play great ball at home, I just don't think they got it this year.You've got to be joking. (About the White Sox, you might be right about the Red Sox, losing Pedro, Schilling and Foulke were huge) They only won four more games than the other three best teams in the AL despite playing in by far the worst division. The Angels, Red Sox or Yankees from either last year OR this year would have won close to 110 games playing in the AL Central.

[MountainHawk]

You've got to be joking. (About the White Sox, you might be right about the Red Sox, losing Pedro, Schilling and Foulke were huge) They only won four more games than the other three best teams in the AL despite playing in by far the worst division. The Angels, Red Sox or Yankees from either last year OR this year would have won close to 110 games playing in the AL Central.

A teams whose division includes TBY, BAL, and TOR is complaining that the other divisions have it too easy. :lol:

[GefilteFish144]

You've got to be joking. (About the White Sox, you might be right about the Red Sox, losing Pedro, Schilling and Foulke were huge) They only won four more games than the other three best teams in the AL despite playing in by far the worst division. The Angels, Red Sox or Yankees from either last year OR this year would have won close to 110 games playing in the AL Central.

Yankees did better against the Red Sox than they did against Cleveland, Minnesota and KC. They had some trouble against Baltimore and Toronto when they played well in April, but wouldn't have won the division without the 2 teams serving as doormats in September.

[R2T]

Seriously, what are you talking about? The Royals suck, given. But without a horrifying collapse by the Indians, they would have replaced your beloved Red Sox or the Yankees in the post season. The Twins were in contention until (Hunter?) got injured. The White Sox have been the best team in baseball all year, maybe a close second to the Cardinals during this past month when they were playing .500 ball.

[RedSoxFan]

Seriously, can we get back to talking about the Red Sox?

We need some luck for game 3 - which Avatar should I use for the game? I've recently featured the Papi and Manny close-ups, I still have the Schill hugging his wife, I've got Papi after he hit a walk-off last year, I even have a Pedro pointing up to God. Or I could make a new one.

[IAm@Work.com]

Seriously, can we get back to talking about the Red Sox?

We need some luck for game 3 - which Avatar should I use for the game? I've recently featured the Papi and Manny close-ups, I still have the Schill hugging his wife, I've got Papi after he hit a walk-off last year, I even have a Pedro pointing up to God. Or I could make a new one.
Pick the one where the ChiSox wrap it up Friday and are well rested just in case NY pulls off an upset. I don't think this years BoSox have it in them, and I'd love to see the Yankees lose the ALCS in 4 or 5 if they manage to get past the Angles. Just so that they would get the idea that spending $208 million on hitters is not any way to build a team. What are they going to do next year, spend another $12 million to put Damon in center and wonder why they still don't dominate the teams with pitchers?

[yankeetripper]

Just so that they would get the idea that spending $208 million on hitters is not any way to build a team.

Umm they did spend $96M on the projected starting rotation and a pretty good chunk o' change on the bull pen as well so not all the $$ went into hitting, just seams that way.

[GefilteFish144]

Just so that they would get the idea that spending $208 million on hitters is not any way to build a team. What are they going to do next year, spend another $12 million to put Damon in center and wonder why they still don't dominate the teams with pitchers?

Despite the fact that's how they won in the late 90's, George will never get it. I enjoyed reading that graphic from ESPN last night comparing the dominance of their bargain pitchers (Chacon, Wang and Small) over their overpriced pitchers (Pavano, Brown and Wright).

[DW Simpson]

Umm they did spend $96M on the projected starting rotation and a pretty good chunk o' change on the bull pen as well so not all the $$ went into hitting, just seams that way.

I still don't understand how/why they let Lieber get away.

[MountainHawk]

I still don't understand how/why they let Lieber get away.

He wanted to be able to see a real football team play during the offseason.

[Wannabe Actuary]

He wanted to be able to see a real football team play during the offseason.he moved overseas to Manchester?

oh you mean Philly...well, at least he has a longer offseason to watch football now

[MountainHawk]

he moved overseas to Manchester?

oh you mean Philly...well, at least he has a longer offseason to watch football now

Only by a week or so.

[yankeetripper]

I still don't understand how/why they let Lieber get away.

they misundersetimated the market

[GefilteFish144]

I still don't understand how/why they let Lieber get away.

Had Lieber been pitching instead of Wang, would have been same situation last night, i.e., Angels hitting baltimore chops and bunting their way around the bases. At least with Wang Yankees can get same result for much less money.

I do admit, though, that with Lieber on the team it could very well have saved the Yankees from signing Jarrett Wrong.

[RedSoxFan]

Seriously, there are more important things to talk about than how to improve the Yankees. For example, which avatar I should have.

[DW Simpson]

Seriously, there are more important things to talk about than how to improve the Yankees. For example, which avatar I should have.

Might I suggest Babe Ruth in a Sox uni?

[yankeetripper]

Seriously, there are more important things to talk about than how to improve the Yankees. For example, which avatar I should have.
Grafanino

[RedSoxFan]

The Red Sox got off to a great start last night, when Damon singled and Renteria doubled to start the game, and after Ortiz struck out, Manny singled both baserunners home. The White Sox learned their lesson: again Manny came up with men on 2nd and 3rd with one out in the 3rd inning, and then he was intentionally walked. It didn't work, as Varitek singled one run in, and Trot grounded another one in for the 4-0 lead.

Wells was sharp early, locating his pitches very well in sharp contrast to Clement the game before. He faced the minimum through four innings, but got in a little bit of trouble in the fifth, allowing Everett to single and Rowand to double to start the inning, cutting the lead to 4-1. After Pierzynski grounded out, Crede singled in another run. Then came the turning point of the game: Uribe hit a grounder softly to Graffanino. He had to rush, because Crede was approaching second. He would have gotten at least one out, possibly the double play, but the ball went under his glove. So instead of the inning possibly being over, the White Sox had men at the corners with just one out. Though Podsednik fouled out for the second out, Iguchi took advantage of a second consecutive curveball from Wells and sent the ball into the left field seats.

The Red Sox got a runner on base each of the last four innings, but couldn't do anything more. Varitek singled to lead the 6th, but would not advance. Graffanino partially redeemed himself with a one-out double in the 9th to make the end exciting, but Damon fouled out and Renteria grounded out to end the game. Buehrle went the first 7 innings, while Bobby Jenks, who was released by the Angels not long ago, got the 2-inning save in his first post-season appearance.

After the homer, Wells and Papelbon kept it close. Wells finished after 6.2 innings, giving up 2 earned runs on 7 hits, walking none, and striking out 2. Papelbon allowed 2 hits in the last 1.1 innings. Damon and Renteria were both 2/5, while Varitek was 2/4. Manny gets POG for getting the Sox off on the right foot. It was his only hit, and the walk in the 3rd was his only other appearance on the bases.

The half-full look is that it isn't as bad as being down 0-3 to the Yankees in the ALCS last year, and also, the Sox feature Wakefield, their best pitcher down the stretch, and Schilling, the biggest big-game starting pitcher in history, the next two games, which are both at home. The first is at 4pm EST tomorrow on ESPN or ESPN2, depending on the market.

[MountainHawk]

Another summary, another no mention of final score.

[yankeetripper]

Another summary, another no mention of final score.

he's hoping it will change

[MountainHawk]

he's hoping it will change

Nah ... it a total inability of Boston sports fans to admit there might be a team that is better than theirs, or outplayed theirs, or in anyway admit inadequacy. It's always something their team screwed up ... not what the other team did. Some of the fans around here were really really funny on Monday trying to explain why San Diego isn't actually better than the Patriots, despite the fact they won, in Foxboro, by 24 points.

[quentin cassidy]

Nah ... it a total inability of Boston sports fans to admit there might be a team that is better than theirs, or outplayed theirs, or in anyway admit inadequacy. It's always something their team screwed up ... not what the other team did. Some of the fans around here were really really funny on Monday trying to explain why San Diego isn't actually better than the Patriots, despite the fact they won, in Foxboro, by 24 points.

Do you think the Falcons are better than the Eagles?

[yankeetripper]

. Some of the fans around here were really really funny on Monday trying to explain why San Diego isn't actually better than the Patriots, despite the fact they won, in Foxboro, by 24 points.

I may have to read that thread for the humor factor.

[MountainHawk]

Sorry ... around here was meaning at work/ in my area ... not on this board. :)

[yankeetripper]

Do you think the Falcons are better than the Eagles?

with all due respect the Falcons didn't go up to philly and put 24 point whipin' on em.

[MountainHawk]

Do you think the Falcons are better than the Eagles?


They certainly were that day. That game was much closer though, and the home team won, so I think it adds less certainity to the who is better argument than a 24 point road team pasting of the home side.

[Mike and Maddog]

The half-full look is that it isn't as bad as being down 0-3 to the Yankees in the ALCS last year, and also, the Sox feature Wakefield, their best pitcher down the stretch, and Schilling, the biggest big-game starting pitcher in history, the next two games, which are both at home. The first is at 4pm EST tomorrow on ESPN or ESPN2, depending on the market.

The half empty look is if they repeat the 0-3, they will be done.

[quentin cassidy]

They certainly were that day. That game was much closer though, and the home team won, so I think it adds less certainity to the who is better argument than a 24 point road team pasting of the home side.

I don't think margin of victory is always particularly important. When you're trailing by more than one score in the 4th quarter, you can either stick with your original game plan, which will give you very little chance of winning, or you can start throwing more, blitzing more, etc in an effort to catch up. If those high-risk plays don't pan out for you, you're likely to end up losing big, as NE did.

IMO, the Eagles are better than the Falcons, while NE/SD are probably pretty even at this point (looking at their entire body of work this year instead of just one game).

[GefilteFish144]

:hijack:

NE defense is trying to adjust to life without Rodney Harrison. You know it's only a matter of time before Belichick will get the subs functioning in his system.

[RedSoxFan]

Nah ... it a total inability of Boston sports fans to admit there might be a team that is better than theirs, or outplayed theirs, or in anyway admit inadequacy. It's always something their team screwed up ... not what the other team did. Some of the fans around here were really really funny on Monday trying to explain why San Diego isn't actually better than the Patriots, despite the fact they won, in Foxboro, by 24 points.

Don't read too much into it, seriously. When the final score is obvious from the write-up, I generally don't write it again. Besides, I write summaries by my own rules, not anyone else's. Go do your own summaries if it concerns you that much.

[Yank]

Don't read too much into it, seriously. When the final score is obvious from the write-up, I generally don't write it again. Besides, I write summaries by my own rules, not anyone else's. Go do your own summaries if it concerns you that much.

While we're on the subject, there's something I've been wondering about since stumbling accross these summaries. Why write them? Does anyone actually go back and say I wonder what happened in the august 21st game? or why did we lose that June 2nd game? Is there someone out there that asked for these? Maybe someone without access to newspapers, television, radio or any other website besides this one. Does anyone say, I wonder what happened in the game last night and look here instead of a newspaper? Not to be a ****, but this doesn't this seem strange? Is it just a way to preserve the season? Cause i could think of a lot better and easier ways to do this.

[Triangle Man]

While we're on the subject, there's something I've been wondering about since stumbling accross these summaries. Why write them? Does anyone actually go back and say I wonder what happened in the august 21st game? or why did we lose that June 2nd game? Is there someone out there that asked for these? Maybe someone without access to newspapers, television, radio or any other website besides this one. Does anyone say, I wonder what happened in the game last night and look here instead of a newspaper? Not to be a ****, but this doesn't this seem strange? Is it just a way to preserve the season? Cause i could think of a lot better and easier ways to do this.I typed out a really good answer to your question, but then changed my mind and decided not to answer your question. However, I still posted.

Hmmmm. Perhaps I answered your question after all.

[GefilteFish144]

While we're on the subject, there's something I've been wondering about since stumbling accross these summaries. Why write them? Does anyone actually go back and say I wonder what happened in the august 21st game? or why did we lose that June 2nd game? Is there someone out there that asked for these? Maybe someone without access to newspapers, television, radio or any other website besides this one. Does anyone say, I wonder what happened in the game last night and look here instead of a newspaper? Not to be a ****, but this doesn't this seem strange? Is it just a way to preserve the season? Cause i could think of a lot better and easier ways to do this.

Red Sox Fan is probably someone who would have been a sportswriter if it could make him money. At least now he has a job where he can make lots of money while doing his sportswriting on the job. Gotta love this profession.

[Hagbard Celine]

At least now he has a job where he can make lots of money while doing his sportswriting on the job. Gotta love this profession.

:lol:

[Cohete009]

Today is the end of the Red Sox season. Finally.

[Big98]

Today I'm going to hate on somebody for no good reason. Finally.

IFYQ

[yankeetripper]

? for sox fan. Facing elimination today, why not start Veritek @ DH to get his bat in the line up and have Ortiz play first? Even if Tek later goes in to catch, its not like Bos doesn't have enough pinch hitters available.

[yankeetripper]

2090!

[Cohete009]

Today is the end of the Red Sox season. Finally.

You know what you are talking about.

Always listen to Cohete.

[RedSoxFan]

The season ended for the Sox on Friday, being swept by the White Sox. An unanticipated ending to the Red Sox' title defense, it was not unpredictable, as the Sox had pitching problems all season, and the Sox offense, which led the league in scoring once again, had trouble in September, and the Sox could turn neither of those around in time for the playoffs.

The key inning was the sixth, which lasted almost an hour. Going into it, the game was tied at 2. But Dye led off with a walk, and Konerko stunned the home crowd with a 2-run homer. Everett grounded out, and Wakefield was removed, mostly because Rowand was then something like 11 for 16 career vs. Wakey. Nevertheless, Rowand singled off of Bradford (on one pitch), and then Myers walked Pierzynski. In came the Red Sox phenom Papelbon, who got Crede to foul out, and then struck out Uribe to keep the margin at two.

The Red Sox also started off their half well, as Manny led off with a homer that chased the White Sox starter, Freddy Garcia. Marte came in, and allowed a single to Nixon. Just then, the announcers were talking about how White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen had not made a mistake all series. Well, he made one when he left Marte in to face Mueller, despite the fact Marte had no control vs. Trot. Mueller walked. Ozzie made his second mistake, leaving Marte in to face Olerud, who walked. But then Ozzie made a great decision, his best of the series. He countered young Papelbon with experienced Orlando Hernandez, also known as "El Duque". Once again, the White Sox were up just one, and the bases were loaded with none out: the White Sox would have been quite happy giving up just 1, maybe 2 runs. Varitek pinch-hit for Mirabelli, but popped out (with the infield playing back, a simple grounder or fly out would have tied the game). Graffanino also popped out. Finally, Damon struck out, unable to check his swing on a ball out of the strike zone on a 3-2 count. The Sox would not threaten the rest of the game: Olerud was the only base-runner they could get, who reached on a two-out single from Olerud in the bottom of the 8th.

The White Sox scored first in this one, linking four straight hits with two out in the 3rd, as Urible doubled, Podsednik doubled him in, and Iguchi singled in the second run. Dye singled Iguchi to third, but Konerko flied out. The Sox faltered early, with both Ortiz and Damon grounding into double plays in the first 3 innings. Papi took things into his own hands leading off the fourth, hitting a homer. Manny then followed with his first homer of the game, to tie it at 2. Papi came up to bat next in the fifth, when with two outs Damon doubled and Renteria walked. Ortiz hit a fly to very deep center, missing the 3-run homer by just a few feet.

Papelbon is awarded POG for keeping the game close through 2.2 innings in his first playoff appearance. He got out of the 6th inning jam, and did not allow a baserunner in the next two innings. Manny went 2/3 with a walk. His two homers tied him for 2nd in postseason history with 20, two behind the leader, Bernie Williams. Olerud went 1/2, including 2 walks. Mueller went 0/3, failing to get a hit in the series. The Sox drew the 3 runs, all on solo homers, despite getting 7 hits and 6 walks. Wakefield gave up 4 runs on 5 hits and a walk in 5.1 innings. Wakefield has been the losing pitcher in the final game of the last two playoff series the Red Sox have lost (on the other hand, Lowe has been the winning pitcher in the final game of the last four playoff series that the Red Sox have won). Another interesting stat along those lines is that Renteria has grounded out to end the last two playoff series he has played in (he grounded out to end game 4 of the World Series last year). Renteria's grounder also left Ortiz on deck as the game ended. Timlin gave up a run in the top of the 9th.

[PK]

2090!And in all of those years, virtually all the people of Boston will cheer and enjoy the ride.

The Yankees, on the other hand, even if they win another 26, will be supported by 1/4 or less of their city who will be mirsable the other 60 years. The other 3/4 won't notice or care.

With all their winning, the Yankees and New York will never know the joy that 2004 brought to New England. You can have the rings. I'll take the ride.

[Mike and Maddog]

Who's the POG?

LMAO! red socks return to their losing ways, out in the first round.

SWEPT!

CHOKE!

LOSE LAST GAME AT HOME!

I LOVE IT!

[Wannabe Actuary]

Who's the POG?

LMAO! red socks return to their losing ways, out in the first round.

SWEPT!

CHOKE!

LOSE LAST GAME AT HOME!

I LOVE IT!
I believe the Yanks are 9-11 at home in the playoffs since 2003...
And I would at least wait before laughing at the Sox for losing in the first round, the Yanks may very well meet the same end.

[Mike and Maddog]

The half empty look is if they repeat the 0-3, they will be done.


Looks like it was half empty.

See ya next year!

[RedSoxFan]

I believe the Yanks are 9-11 at home in the playoffs since 2003...
And I would at least wait before laughing at the Sox for losing in the first round, the Yanks may very well meet the same end.

Well of course he waits to post that until after the Yankees survive game 4..

[Mike and Maddog]

I believe the Yanks are 9-11 at home in the playoffs since 2003...
And I would at least wait before laughing at the Sox for losing in the first round, the Yanks may very well meet the same end.

At least the Yankees won a game!

LMAO! Choker red socks!

[RedSoxFan]

Who's the POG?

LMAO! red socks return to their losing ways, out in the first round.

SWEPT!

CHOKE!

LOSE LAST GAME AT HOME!

I LOVE IT!

GREATEST COLLAPSE IN SPORTS HISTORY! UP 3-0 IN ALCS, CHOKE, LOSE LAST TWO GAMES AT HOME, SEE RED SOX WIN WORLD SERIES! LMAO!

YANKESS GREATEST PAYROLL EVERY YEAR, STILL NO TITLES IN THIS MILLENIUM!

I LOVE IT!

[Wannabe Actuary]

At least the Yankees won a game!

LMAO! Choker red socks!go ahead, win two games in the ALDS, if the Angels win 3, it still means no WS...LMAO 200+ million, what a waste, LMAO

[yankeetripper]

And in all of those years, virtually all the people of Boston will cheer and enjoy the ride.

The Yankees, on the other hand, even if they win another 26, will be supported by 1/4 or less of their city who will be mirsable the other 60 years. The other 3/4 won't notice or care.

With all their winning, the Yankees and New York will never know the joy that 2004 brought to New England. You can have the rings. I'll take the ride.

Believe me when I say I enjoyed '77, '78 (especially the strech run), '96, '98 (112 wins, 11-2 post season run), - '00 every bit as much as you enjoyed '04 last year. There were a great many other seasons I enjoyed that just didn't quite end in tittles but were very fun to watch none the less.

Hey and not bad that a team that supposedly choked it away last year managed to squeeze 4,000,000+ fans into their park this year.

[Wannabe Actuary]

Hey and not bad that a team that supposedly choked it away last year managed to squeeze 4,000,000+ fans into their park this year.hmmm, a huge stadium, in one of the largest cities in the US, and a team that is almost always in the race...kind of hard not to have a ton of people show up...

Boston sticks with tradition and doesn't mess too much with it's stadium...

[RedSoxFan]

By the way, here (http://www.actuarialoutpost.com/actuarial_discussion_forum/showthread.php?t=64119) is the thread for the ALDS.

[PK]

Believe me when I say I enjoyed ....You, I can believe.

If 'Mike and Maddog' claimed to enjoy anything where the NYYs don't win it all, I'd be very suspicious.

[yankeetripper]

You, I can believe.


I appreciate that PK.

Sox have a lot of free agents this year and an old starting rotation. Could be tough to hold off Toronto for second place next year.

[RedSoxFan]

I appreciate that PK.

Sox have a lot of free agents this year and an old starting rotation. Could be tough to hold off Toronto for second place next year.

I disagree that it's a forgone conclusion that the Orioles will finish first.

[Wannabe Actuary]

congratulations to the posters of this thread for making it the longest thread in all of 'sports'

[GefilteFish144]

congratulations to the posters of this thread for making it the longest thread in all of 'sports'

You're welcome.

[11pecans]

:lol:


mods can we lock this thread?

[Wannabe Actuary]

Jason Varitek has won his first Gold Glove...to go along with his first silver slugger award...

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=109951


One day after winning his first Silver Slugger, he paired it with his first Gold Glove. But instead of reveling in being named the best offensive and defensive catcher in the American League, he spent most of a conference call with reporters bemoaning the departure of general manager Theo Epstein and the sudden instability that has wracked the club.

[Triangle Man]

Jason Varitek has won his first Gold Glove...to go along with his first silver slugger award...I love Varitek as much as heterosexually possible, but I have to admit that the Gold Glove has become a joke. I'm supposed to believe that he's become the best defensive catcher this year? Based on what? He doesn't throw out runners particularly well.

Especially in the light of Palmiero winning the GG at 1B a few years ago despite playing 100+ games at DH, the only way it could become more worthless would be, for example, if Jeter were to win another one.

[11pecans]

Especially in the light of Palmiero winning the GG at 1B a few years ago despite playing 100+ games at DH, the only way it could become more worthless would be, for example, if Jeter were to win another one.

Cmon, he played some exceptional defense as the DH that year. You dont realize how effective a DH can be from the dug out heckling the other teams batters...ssssccccchhhhhwwwwwiiiiiiinnnnngggggggg!

[Wannabe Actuary]

I love Varitek as much as heterosexually possible, but I have to admit that the Gold Glove has become a joke. I'm supposed to believe that he's become the best defensive catcher this year? Based on what? He doesn't throw out runners particularly well.

Especially in the light of Palmiero winning the GG at 1B a few years ago despite playing 100+ games at DH, the only way it could become more worthless would be, for example, if Jeter were to win another one.I'm assuming you've seen that he has in fact won a second in a row....

[11pecans]

I'm assuming you've seen that he has in fact won a second in a row....

give the boy some credit would you, he knows of what he speaks, it isnt funny if you have to spell it out :shake2:

[Wannabe Actuary]

give the boy some credit would you, he knows of what he speaks, it isnt funny if you have to spell it out :shake2:

whatever, I didn't know for sure he had seen it and was using that as an example, or if it was just his true thought and hadn't seen it.

[Patience]

I love Varitek as much as heterosexually possible, but I have to admit that the Gold Glove has become a joke. I'm supposed to believe that he's become the best defensive catcher this year? Based on what? He doesn't throw out runners particularly well.

Especially in the light of Palmiero winning the GG at 1B a few years ago despite playing 100+ games at DH, the only way it could become more worthless would be, for example, if Jeter were to win another one.

Usually I would say I have to see a guy play, defense can't be seen just from the numbers; but

compared to just IRod - Varitek had 8 errors to 4; 7 passed balls to 4; a .244 caught stealing to an amazing .515; and a 5.02 CERA to 4.44.

[11pecans]

Usually I would say I have to see a guy play, defense can't be seen just from the numbers; but

compared to just IRod - Varitek had 8 errors to 4; 7 passed balls to 4; a .244 caught stealing to an amazing .515; and a 5.02 CERA to 4.44.

Clearly you dont know how these things work. A player in Detroit is de facto inferior to a player from NY or Boston no matter what the numbers are.

Selig and MLB are a joke. There's no integrity in mlb, just a bunch of cheaters.

[Wannabe Actuary]

Timlin inks a 1 year deal

[Mike and Maddog]

Padre GM not interested in socks GM job. Another GM that thinks the socks were a one year fluke.

[Wannabe Actuary]

Boston Red Sox
--------------
Johnny Damon, OF October 28
Tony Graffanino, 2B October 28
Matt Mantei, RHP November 1
Kevin Millar, 1B October 27
Bill Mueller, 3B October 27
Mike Myers, LHP October 31
John Olerud, 1B-DH November 10

free agents and date they filed for FA

happy birthday to schilling today.

[Wannabe Actuary]

BTW, 30 minutes until the AL MVP is announced...

I say A-Rod is first, Papi second.

but I would love to see it the other way.

[Patience]

BTW, 30 minutes until the AL MVP is announced...

I say A-Rod is first, Papi second.

but I would love to see it the other way.

I agree on both counts

[Wannabe Actuary]

just saw something about the marlins agreeing tentatively to trading Josh Beckett and 3B Mike Lowell to the Red Sox for Hanley Ramirez, someone else I didn't catch and a minor league pitcher....
off to look for an article...
Beckett...nice!

[Pseudolus]

http://www.realgmbaseball.com/src_wiretap_archives/1357/20051121/red_sox_and_marlins_close_in_on_a_deal/

[Wannabe Actuary]

Anibal Sanchez was the other name, supposedly a top pitching prospect...I haven't heard the name...
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2232211

[Wannabe Actuary]

seems like my article seems to have a little more detail, but thanks for the other link

[yankeetripper]

youse guys gatta be happy bout the beckett trade. Lowell was a payroll dump but getting him out of FLA he may regain his power stroke.

[Wannabe Actuary]

was that an attempt at a boston accent?

[Wannabe Actuary]

they're now saying trade done...just pending physicals

[Wannabe Actuary]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AuMCEY7UpEgP41xIG2tPBQ8RvLYF?slug=ap-redsox-marlinstrade&prov=ap&type=lgns

Jesus Delgado is the other minor league pitcher

[Mike and Maddog]

payroll dump by Florida. That is terrible.

[Patience]

just saw something about the marlins agreeing tentatively to trading Josh Beckett and 3B Mike Lowell to the Red Sox for Hanley Ramirez, someone else I didn't catch and a minor league pitcher....
off to look for an article...
Beckett...nice!

If he can stay healthy (mostly blisters) Beckett is a better pitcher than Burnett. Also, if Lowell isn't finished and the drop off was so quick, there is reason to believe he isn't this could be a great pick up. Plus Lowell will be a huge defensive addition as well.

Burnett may have better stuff, but has never put it together, has a crappy attitude and his price tag is rising beyond his value very quickly.

[Wonder Boy]

i don't think the trade is final quite yet, but IF it does go down, this is a fantastic trade for the Sox. Hanley Ramirez has lost a bit of his shine over the last year as he really has yet to put up the numbers to warrant the hype. Sanchez could be good, but if he turned into Beckett that would be one of the best case scenarios. Beckett is already Beckett.

If the Sox eat some cash, I'm sure they could flip Lowell for some useful parts.

Bad news for Yankee fans.

[Patience]

If the Sox eat some cash, I'm sure they could flip Lowell for some useful parts.

Bad news for Yankee fans.

I would think they would try him at 3rd if they lose Mueller

[MountainHawk]

You guys are really excited about adding a pitcher that average about 2 DL stints a season, is barely over .500 on a decent team, had a 3.5 ERA in a major pitcher's park, and averages 11.1 BB+Hits per 9 innings pitched?

Or is it the the overpaid 3B that hit .240, and had a slugging percentage of .360?

[Wonder Boy]

Beckett is also only 25, has struck out a batter an inning for his career, and is 2 years from free agency. he is an injury risk, but his upside is scary.

i agree with your main points about ballpark considerations (compare his home/away ERA's), injury risks, and control problems, but Burnett will come with the exact same risks attached.

since Burnett will likely get 5 years, $50-60M from someone, Beckett for 2 years and around $12M seems like a pretty good deal.

[MountainHawk]

I guess I've never seen as much upside to Beckett. As a Phils fan, I've seen him a lot, and I just think he get himself in trouble too much to really ever be a dominant pitcher. Yes, he can get himself out of trouble with a K, but if you have 1 & 3 with 1 out a few times a game, sooner or later, you are giving up some runs.

[yankeetripper]

I guess I've never seen as much upside to Beckett. As a Phils fan, I've seen him a lot, and I just think he get himself in trouble too much to really ever be a dominant pitcher. Yes, he can get himself out of trouble with a K, but if you have 1 & 3 with 1 out a few times a game, sooner or later, you are giving up some runs.
If he cuts down the walks and stays resonably healthy he can be a dominant as anyone in the game. He is just 25. It was a long time before Randy Johnson mastered the strike zone. Beckett may not have Johnsons stuff but he definately has a high cieling with 98 mph fastball. That 2 hitter he threw in G6 of the WS was just plain nasty. The Red Sox just upgraded their picthing.

Get Lowell out of Pro-player and maybe he produces, if not Red Sox eat the contract and put Youkolis in at 3rd.

Does this give the Sox the division? No. But it does give them a better chance.

[The African Queen]

payroll dump by Florida. That is terrible.

Why? It's not terrible only if the Yankees are involved, right?

[Wonder Boy]

the Sox are the division favorites right at this minute, no question. it has less to do with the Beckett trade than with the fact that the Yanks have lots of holes, lots of money to spend, and no one to spend it on.

doesn't seem like Giles is interested. BJ Ryan isn't coming. Gordon will walk when someone (foolishly, IMO) gives him 3 years. they have no CF, no bullpen, and no desirable options for filling either spot.

there is a LOT of off-season left, and a lot of players who will become available around the non-tender deadline, so it's tough to know how each roster will look in april...but right now, Boston is the favorite.

of course, this also depends on what happens to Manny...

[yankeetripper]

the Sox are the division favorites right at this minute, no question. it has less to do with the Beckett trade than with the fact that the Yanks have lots of holes, lots of money to spend, and no one to spend it on.
...
Not sure why Sox are clear favorites w/ or w/o Beckett. They have as many or more problems as Yanks.
Manny wants out - nothing new here.
Closer, not sure what you'll be getting from Foulke comming off injuries.
Schilling is 39 or 40 coming off an unispiring injury plauged year.
Middle relief (outside Timlin who may need to close again) is questionable unless both the kids who came up is September pitch very well.
You have no set corner infielders.
CF is a free agent looking for more than he is worth in a thin FA market.
Matt Clement and Bronson Arroyo both had pretty poor 2nd halves.
Boston team ERA was worse than the Yankee last year.

All this and Boston is the clear favorite? :shake:

[Wonder Boy]

there is no doubt that what happens with Manny will be the story of the Sox off-season. that could change everything. but since he is still on the team, i was basing my opinion on that.

with manny and beckett, the Sox are the favorite IMO. if they trade Manny and the Yanks sign Giles, for example, everything changes.

both teams won 95 games last season. the Sox just made a trade to improve themselves over last year. the Yankees have yet to make a move that improves themselves over last year.

i don't think it's unreasonable to say the Sox are the favorites right now. it's not unreasonable, but it's pretty pointless, since there are many moves to come.

[yankeetripper]

i don't think it's unreasonable to say the Sox are the favorites right now. it's not unreasonable, but it's pretty pointless, since there are many moves to come.

Pointless? Nonsense, pointless speculation in the off season is what makes it fun.:wink:

My guess for the surprise move of the offseason. Yanks sign B. Molina or Hernadez as their catcher and trade Posada for CF. Not sure if Posada is 5/10 guy though who can block a trade.

[Wonder Boy]

pretty sure Posada is not 5/10. not sure who would take him though. he's owed a ton of money.

i honestly have no idea who will be in CF for the yanks next year. i was hoping they would sign giles, but it doesn't seem like he is interested. if they did that, they could work a rotation with giles/sheffield/Giambi through the DH slot. keep everyone fresh the whole year by giving the old guys 40-50 games each at DH. play bubba in CF when Giles DH's, play Phillips at 1B when Giambi DH's, play giles in RF and bubba in CF when Sheff DH's.

next year, sheffield's gone, and Giles slides over to RF. they could work on the long-term CF issue next year.

i would prefer them to find a true CF, but given the market, this would work for a year....

[yankeetripper]

pretty sure Posada is not 5/10. not sure who would take him though. he's owed a ton of money.

i honestly have no idea who will be in CF for the yanks next year. i was hoping they would sign giles, but it doesn't seem like he is interested. if they did that, they could work a rotation with giles/sheffield/Giambi through the DH slot. keep everyone fresh the whole year by giving the old guys 40-50 games each at DH. play bubba in CF when Giles DH's, play Phillips at 1B when Giambi DH's, play giles in RF and bubba in CF when Sheff DH's.

next year, sheffield's gone, and Giles slides over to RF. they could work on the long-term CF issue next year.

i would prefer them to find a true CF, but given the market, this would work for a year....
I'm not sold on Giles as CF and his production has dropped, don't expect it to pick up if he goes to NYY. I think he's be a mistake. Just my opinion.

Posada is a soild cather who gets on base and can drive in runs so there would be some interest in him. Yanks would proably need to pick up some salary if they moved him but my thoughts on it are this: he is one of the few marketable players yanks have that is not Cano or Wang, there are 2 viable catchers currently on the free agent market, Posada/Unit did not mix last year and I'd be surprised if the yanks brought back 38 year old flarherty and his sub mendoza batting average, there is no good option for CF on the free agent market so I look for Cashman to be creative in the trade market.

[Wannabe Actuary]

take it the yankee thread!!

[GefilteFish144]

Article I read this morning says that chances of Giles going to NY are slim. Yanks may very well stick with Crosby at CF. He showed some promise at the plate last September, and aside from the infamous collision his defense has been solid.

My feeling is that the Yankees should keep Posada -- that contract year can sometimes bring out the best in players.

[GefilteFish144]

take it the yankee thread!!

Since the thread says 2005 season (not 2006) this thread has effectively been hijacked already. :capn:

[Dr T Non-Fan]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5104878

Why a team in the West? Ortiz says it's something about his family, but gives no further info.

[Ray Finkle]

keepmanny.com

[GefilteFish144]

keepmanny.com

http://www.trademanny.com/

[Mike and Maddog]

socks are suing to keep a ball? Guess they realize they won't see another WS title for 90 years.

Wah! we are taking our ball and going home.

:lol:

[Patience]

Olerud retires.

I felt he still had something to offer a team as a back up 1B and pinch hitter, but he always seemed to make decisions for reasons other than just the paycheck. A really nice solid career.

Even though the Mets made the WS in 2000 I always felt his leaving them was the reason the team fell apart thereafter or at least the first part of the equation.

[GefilteFish144]

Wow, lots of news stories on Red Sox present and past. Olerud, read an article about Manny today, Nomar showing interest in the Yankees, and Grady Little finally finds a job.

[JustASix]

Don't forget Renteria to the Braves. I really hope that happens.

[Pseudolus]

Olerud retires.Always like him, on the Mets and afterwards. Carried himself like a real professional, and could hit a little, too.

[Mike and Maddog]

Red Sox get Loretta: As expected. Don't anticipate a Tony Graffanino Bobblehead Day at Fenway next year. (Bobble-Fielding? Maybe.)

Red Sox trade Mirabelli: If RSN was counting on another 16-win season from Wakefield, they can forget it. Wake's stats pitching to Varitek last season? 0-4 with an 8-plus ERA.


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/quickie

[Evil monkey]

Don't forget Renteria to the Braves. I really hope that happens.
Done.
redsox.com

[JustASix]

Done.
redsox.comHow do the Red Sox fans feel about this? As a Braves fan I love it, but Marte could be a real stud in a year or two.

[Wannabe Actuary]

rumor has it the sox got marte to unload him for julio lugo...
Renteria lead the majors in errors with 30 last year, I'm happy for the errors to go. I'm pretty sure the Sox are sticking with Youk, since they've invested so much time in him (called up many times and usually sent back down just for roster space reasons, not play). I can't see them going to Marte now.

[MountainHawk]

Who is the RS shortstop now?

[Wannabe Actuary]

note, Lugo had 24 errors last year, so that's not much of a drop...but Lugo did have more DPs last year and a better fielding percentage

[MountainHawk]

Oh ... assuming Marte gets flipped for Lugo ... ok.

[Wannabe Actuary]

Who is the RS shortstop now?
Right now? I think it would be Cora? But a trade is likely in the works to get a SS.

[Wannabe Actuary]

Oh ... assuming Marte gets flipped for Lugo ... ok.
Yeah, I think that could happen, but nothing def. yet

[Ray Finkle]

So . . . if this goes through, the infield will be Lowell, Lugo, and Loretta. Who's going to play first? If I've uncovered Larry Lucchino's top secret strategy, they will be acquiring one of these guys:

Mike Lamb
Adam LaRoche
Matthew LeCroy
Derrek Lee
Travis Lee

[Wannabe Actuary]

So . . . if this goes through, the infield will be Lowell, Lugo, and Loretta. Who's going to play first? If I've uncovered Larry Lucchino's top secret strategy, they will be acquiring one of these guys:

Mike Lamb
Adam LaRoche
Matthew LeCroy
Derrek Lee
Travis Lee
I highly doubt Lowell spends much time if any on third. It was just a price to pay to get some pitching help.

[DW Simpson]

Who is the RS shortstop now?

I think they're setting up for a run in 2007.

[Wannabe Actuary]

I noted it in the Yankee thread, but it applies here as well
Damon signs with the Yanks. 4 years 52 million

pretty predictable, given the Yanks need and deep pockets, while the Sox were not willing to overpay or offer a longer contract.

[dinosaur]

Damon signs with the Yanks

Johnny has gone to the dark side. :dsmile:

The Sox must think one championship every 80 or so years is good enough for them.

[Wannabe Actuary]

Damon's weight will go down about 5 pounds....when he gets his hair cut.
It's gonna be weird to see him in CF without that hair bouncing all over the place.

[Patience]

I noted it in the Yankee thread, but it applies here as well
Damon signs with the Yanks. 4 years 52 million

pretty predictable, given the Yanks need and deep pockets, while the Sox were not willing to overpay or offer a longer contract.

and $13m is too much for Damon but he fits well and hurts the Sox. For Matsui it made sense also becuase of all the japanese revenue.

The Sox have to realize that even if Damon isn't a $13m a year player in general, for them he is. I heard they didn't go over $40m.

I'm sure I am missing someone, but they don't seem to have anyone at 1B, 2B, SS or CF

[Mike and Maddog]

the failure to re-sign Damon can't be viewed, within the current market, as anything other than a colossal mistake. Boston had the power and the resources to control these negotiations, in the end, to take the Damon bidding out of range of the Yankees, and the Red Sox needed to keep Damon. In a winter in which Rafael Furcal got three years and $39 million, and in the first winter after J.D. Drew signed a five-year, $55 million deal with the Dodgers, a five-year contract for Damon would have been reasonable -- and that's about where the Yankees thought Boston would take the bidding, and win it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=2267080

[yankeetripper]

I'm sure I am missing someone, but they don't seem to have anyone at 1B, 2B, SS or CF
No I think you hit the nail on the head but I'm sure the 2-headed GM will come-up with some of the great talent on the free agent market to fill those holes.

BTW the Sox outfiled looks a bit schechy right now with injury pron Nixon in right, no one in center and Manny stone glove looking to bolt town.

:toast:

[yankeetripper]

Well at least you got Flaherty

[roark]

sox pick up JT Snow, a player too old for even the decrepit giants...
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2282818
(old meaning past his prime/performance, not simply age)

Also Manny says he's staying in Bostonhttp://espndeportes.espn.go.com/story?id=396286

so who's playing CF anyway?

And who's gonna start an '06 thread?

[GeorgiePorgie]

As long as the Sox are taking on ole veterans like Snow.... maybe the A's can be talked into sending Payton back to the Sox to play CF. I'm sure he'd be willing to kiss and make up with Francona in order to get full time work in CF. As an A's fan, I'd love to see it. It would make room in the OF for Swisher and Johnson goes back to 1B. After getting Bradley, Payton is excess salary now for Oakland.

[yankeetripper]

As long as the Sox are taking on ole veterans like Snow.... maybe the A's can be talked into sending Payton back to the Sox to play CF. I'm sure he'd be willing to kiss and make up with Francona in order to get full time work in CF. As an A's fan, I'd love to see it. It would make room in the OF for Swisher and Johnson goes back to 1B. After getting Bradley, Payton is excess salary now for Oakland.
Ugh... did you watch Payton play last year. He was awsome for oakland after he came over and he is a much better outfielder than swisher. plus w/ kotsay's back a continuing question mark and Bradley haveing played more than 100 games only once in his career, having 5 capable OFs 3 who can play CF will be a big plus for the A's and moving swisher to 1b will be a plus for him. They stay healthy, they should have a GREAT season next year. That line up is pretty balanced all the way through and the staff should be near the top in ERA again next year.

[GeorgiePorgie]

Ugh... did you watch Payton play last year. He was awsome for oakland after he came over and he is a much better outfielder than swisher. plus w/ kotsay's back a continuing question mark and Bradley haveing played more than 100 games only once in his career, having 5 capable OFs 3 who can play CF will be a big plus for the A's and moving swisher to 1b will be a plus for him. They stay healthy, they should have a GREAT season next year. That line up is pretty balanced all the way through and the staff should be near the top in ERA again next year.I hear you, but... Payton is never going to get any better. while Swisher did show tremendous defensive improvement last year as the season wore on.

I do not want to see the defensive growth of 2 much younger players (Swisher moving from OF to 1B, and Johnson idling at DH instead of playing 1B) stunted just to make room for Payton in the OF. The NL team across the bay is used to moving their young developing players all over the field, to whatever positions are open at the moment, in order to please and make room for their thirtysomethings. But the A's don't make a habit of that. :wink:

I understand that having Payton around would provide depth and serve as a nice buffer against an injury or an off year by someone else. But I'd move him (if there any takers) and risk that we'd get along somehow without him. Oakland is very much used to taking those kinds of risks.

Making 4 million on a tight fisted team like Oakland, Payton has to play. Oakland can't afford to pay that $ to a part time player. So if he's here on opening day, he will be in the lineup. I'm hoping he'll be somewhere else. I don't have any personal agenda against the guy and I am not saying that he doesn't have value - I just want to see Swisher and Johnson playing defense in the places where they belong.

[yankeetripper]

I hear you, but... Payton is never going to get any better. while Swisher did show tremendous defensive improvement last year as the season wore on.

I do not want to see the defensive growth of 2 much younger players (Swisher moving from OF to 1B, and Johnson idling at DH instead of playing 1B) stunted just to make room for Payton in the OF. The NL team across the bay is used to moving their young developing players all over the field, to whatever positions are open at the moment, in order to please and make room for their thirtysomethings. But the A's don't make a habit of that. :wink:

I understand that having Payton around would provide depth and serve as a nice buffer against an injury or an off year by someone else. But I'd move him (if there any takers) and risk that we'd get along somehow without him. Oakland is very much used to taking those kinds of risks.

Making 4 million on a tight fisted team like Oakland, Payton has to play. Oakland can't afford to pay that $ to a part time player. So if he's here on opening day, he will be in the lineup. I'm hoping he'll be somewhere else. I don't have any personal agenda against the guy and I am not saying that he doesn't have value - I just want to see Swisher and Johnson playing defense in the places where they belong.
I respectfull disagree with you. I've seen the A's move a lot of people out of possition both thought the minors and at major league level while following them prttey closely in the bay area the last 14 years. Do you remember right fielder Jason Giambi?

[GeorgiePorgie]

Yes, I remember Giambi in the OF and at 3B. Of course, different people were in charge for most of his shuffling around days. After Beane's first season as GM, Giambi's days in the OF and 3B came to an end (except for 1 game at 3B in '99).

Again, I hear ya. Every team has to shuffle people around at times - even young guys, even to satisfy old guys, and even when they don't want to. I didn't say that the A's *never* do it.

BTW, I've never resided further than 15 miles from the Oakland Coliseum in my life so I've logged quite a few years following them in great detail too!

I don't think we disagree on much, other than I'd risk the coming season without Payton and you wouldn't. I respect your stance, and I'm sure most A's fans would agree with you.

I'd give him back to the Sox, or to anybody, that's willing to pay his full 4 million for 2006.

[yankeetripper]

Yes, I remember Giambi in the OF and at 3B. Of course, different people were in charge for most of his shuffling around days. After Beane's first season as GM, Giambi's days in the OF and 3B came to an end (except for 1 game at 3B in '99).

Again, I hear ya. Every team has to shuffle people around at times - even young guys, even to satisfy old guys, and even when they don't want to. I didn't say that the A's *never* do it.

BTW, I've never resided further than 15 miles from the Oakland Coliseum in my life so I've logged quite a few years following them in great detail too!

I don't think we disagree on much, other than I'd risk the coming season without Payton and you wouldn't. I respect your stance, and I'm sure most A's fans would agree with you.

I'd give him back to the Sox, or to anybody, that's willing to pay his full 4 million for 2006.Except for the fact that Red Sox aren't willing to give the kind of prospects Beane would want and the A's just signed Payton in the off season i don't have anything against what you propose i just think they would be stronger w/ Payton this year then anything they could get from Sox. There is a decent chance they could have 7 guys with 20+ HRs this year which is a lot of balance. Every projected starter w/ the exeption of Kendall & Ellis (and possible Kotsay?) should make a run at 20 and few should be near 30 and if Chavez can avoid his usually April slump he may finally hit the 40 the A's were hoping for. I don't see a need to dump Payton's salary, he is an above average OF and should hit 25 HRs as a full time player so unless the A's can replace those #s in a trade or get a killer prospect (that few would part w/ for Payton), I'd rather see them make a run at the title this year.
Maybe I'll see you out at the coliseum this year.

[Patience]

Sox sign Julian Taveras.

Guy has talent, but what a head case. At least he will be throwing at Yankees now.

btw, also resign Graffinino

[yankeetripper]

Sox sign Julian Taveras.

:party: thankfully the yanks didn't go after him. has he ever had a good post season. And I garantee at least one meltdown sometime thsi year.

[Mike and Maddog]

Red Sox trade for Coco Crisp: Fills a need in the OF with a guy with an .800-plus OPS, but wasn't prospect Andy Marte supposed to be the Next Great Thing? He could explode in the middle of that potent Indians lineup.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/quickie